The Official ES (or E...C) 2022 Free Agency Thread Signed G Andrew Norwell, Obada, Trai Turner...Goodbye Scherff, Kyle Allen, Tim Settle

[duffy]

11 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I don't think they really are going to go after him, so I'm not sure there will be a chance of getting him.  

 

Though, I'm sure Ron or one of the other coaches who coached him in Carolina has his cell number, and will hit him up and say, "WHAAAAZZZZZUUUUUPPPPPP?  What you doing?  Thoughts?"

Yeah, I agree. I haven't been following the cap situation closely enough, but I would imagine we wouldn't even have enough space until after June 1st anyway. I could see him signing before that. 

 

But yeah, I don't doubt they may reach out just in case. But I'll bet he's low priority if any. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

6 minutes ago, duffy said:

Yeah, I agree. I haven't been following the cap situation closely enough, but I would imagine we wouldn't even have enough space until after June 1st anyway. I could see him signing before that. 

 

But yeah, I don't doubt they may reach out just in case. But I'll bet he's low priority if any. 

You can do anything with the cap you want to.  They could sign him to a 15 year contract with 12 voidable years, give him a $15M signing bonus and veteran minimum salary, and have him count < $2M against the cap next year, and just defer all of it until out-years, while still giving him the CASH right now. (This is slightly exaggerated. But not TOO far from what they could do if they wanted to.) 

 

The Rams can fit a pro-bowl roster under the cap by always just pushing money out. 

 

Eventually, it WILL catch up with them, and they're going to be $90M over the cap with no first round picks.  But they will have had at least 1 SB to show for it.  

[duffy]

28 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

You can do anything with the cap you want to.  They could sign him to a 15 year contract with 12 voidable years, give him a $15M signing bonus and veteran minimum salary, and have him count < $2M against the cap next year, and just defer all of it until out-years, while still giving him the CASH right now. (This is slightly exaggerated. But not TOO far from what they could do if they wanted to.) 

 

The Rams can fit a pro-bowl roster under the cap by always just pushing money out. 

 

Eventually, it WILL catch up with them, and they're going to be $90M over the cap with no first round picks.  But they will have had at least 1 SB to show for it.  

That's fair. Yeah. I guess I should just say that I don't want them to sign him lol. 

[Conn]

The only reason I think we have a shot at Bradberry is bc teams failed to come to contract terms with him even for a trade of a late round pick. That says to me he wants more than anyone wants to offer—the contract was the hold up, not the late round pick.
 

Makes me wonder if he’ll take a 1-year prove-it type deal that we can maneuver our cap for and try FA again next year when he can hit the market while everyone still has their full allotment of cap dollars. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Caught up with Keim’s new podcast. Not much new.

 

A. They’d have interest in Bradberry if he were cheap but Keim doesn’t expect him to be cheap so he doesn’t think it’s going down 

 

B. He mentioned they have been conservative with the cap because they want to retain their guys if possible and he mentioned that includes D. Payne 

[RWJ]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Caught up with Keim’s new podcast. Not much new.

 

A. They’d have interest in Bradberry if he were cheap but Keim doesn’t expect him to be cheap so he doesn’t think it’s going down 

 

B. He mentioned they have been conservative with the cap because they want to retain their guys if possible and he mentioned that includes D. Payne 

I'd rather they let D Payne hit FA after this season.  I think Payne is going to price himself out of range and I am really eager to see what Mathis brings to the DL. I think we will see superior play from Mathis compared to Payne IF Mathis stays in shape.  

[FLSkinz83]

17 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Caught up with Keim’s new podcast. Not much new.

 

A. They’d have interest in Bradberry if he were cheap but Keim doesn’t expect him to be cheap so he doesn’t think it’s going down 

 

B. He mentioned they have been conservative with the cap because they want to retain their guys if possible and he mentioned that includes D. Payne 

 

Fortune favors the brave, not the conservative.

[kingdaddy]

8 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I really doubt that's going to happen.  They did re-sign Mayo, and I think it's more likely they stick Mayo in the middle and pair him with Davis and Holcomb in 4-3 base in the 10% they run it.

 

But who knows.  

Doesn't matter much what you think...it's what the coaches think and how well the players perform. He said he hopes for something and it's possible it could happen. Same as how TH beat Tom Brady, Russell Wilson and other pro bowl QB's. 

[sebestian]

Fortune favors the brave, not the conservative.

 

This!

[Dark Acre]

4 hours ago, FLSkinz83 said:

Fortune favors the brave, not the conservative.

That's why there's a salary cap.

[FLSkinz83]

39 minutes ago, Dark Acre said:

That's why there's a salary cap.

 

It's a soft cap

[Skinsinparadise]

Joe Banner among others who talked about the cap recently said the cap is real --the question is do you want to punt on some of your own players down the road?  Eventually you pay for kicking the can down the road.  But if the idea is the future is now, go win a SB or whatever, then who cares about 2024.  So its sort of a balancing act.  And if you run the team that way you better not screw up with your moves, the Rams for example have been really competent playing that game. 

 

Bruce wasn't big on kicking the can down the road with the cap.  But Vinny Cerrato for his buffonery was the king of restructuring and punting contracts down the road, Rams style, constantly restructuring veteran contracts, so they had their share of deap cap money over time but in the moment they seemed like the Saints-Rams able to add whomever they wanted for a time -- but on occasion it would bite them, I recall for example they didn't keep Smoot and Pierce even though they were part of their defense's emergence and it came out later that they couldn't afford them on the cap.  That type of stuff eventually is going to happen.  So bringing that here if we are ok with possibly losing some of our young talent down the road, I do agree they can be more aggressive now.  You can hope the cap continues to soar and ride on that.

 

Bringing this back to the Bruce era and Vinny era.  In the Vinny era they did kick their share of contracts for down the road via restructuring, working signing bonuses, etc.  My point is we know that Dan did have a phase that he was into this.  Whether that's good or bad is debatable.   But as Standig has speculated and Michael Phillips too -- this version of Dan might be cash poor.  Unlike many other owners who enjoy some success outside of their team, Dan has been almost as big of a loser after his initial success in the 90s with his business endeavors as he has with this team.  Guys like Arthur Blank for example make money via Home Depot.  Where is Dan's liquid cash?  So they speculated that restructuring contracts and kicking the can type of moves often involving giving more upfront money in signing bonuses, etc -- and Dan might not easily have that dough or might not be willing to splash that dough the way he was when he was younger.

 

Add the fact that Dan had to take out a loan to buy out his partners.  And add to that, he might have to fund much of the stadium himself unlike a lot of other owners -- Dan's own issues might be the hindrance to adopt a style similar to the Rams.    Stan Kroneke for example is a winner financially, he could foot the bill himself for arguaby the nicest football stadium in the country.  Our owner relatively speaking compared to the rest of the owners is a loser apples to apples.

https://www.the33rdteam.com/is-the-salary-cap-real

Is The Salary Cap Real?

There has been much discussion about whether the NFL Salary Cap is real or not. In any given year, the truth is that almost any team can fit in almost anybody they want if the player is important enough. This is why cap skeptics (mistakenly) exist. 

To understand this, you need to realize that, over time, cash will equal cap by player and by team. While there is some ability to affect the timing of charges, there is no way to avoid the charges altogether. You can restructure contracts — typically by converting base salary to a prorated signing bonus — to create short-term cap space. But those charges will be incurred later. 

Two of the paradigm examples that cap skeptics reference are the Saints and the Rams. Whereas the former is typically one of the teams most over the cap prior to the start of the league year, the latter seems to be able to continuously create room for superstar players. 

 

So, what are the teams that are $20M+ over the cap prior to the start of the league year doing? Let’s take a closer look at the Rams and the Saints…

 

 

Losing Key Players

Despite entering the offseason at a projected $22.3M over the cap, the Rams have been able to sign both Allen Robinson and Bobby Wagner. These deals have led some to question the cap’s validity. But what they fail to realize is that the Rams are able to spend this money by saving it elsewhere. 

 

Key mid-season acquisition Von Miller signed with the Buffalo Bills. Starting CB Darious Williams departed for Jacksonville, and LA traded Robert Woods to Tennessee. This is not an aberration either — the Rams have had to make difficult decisions in losing players for many seasons now. Here’s a look at who they’ve gained versus who they’ve lost: 

Like the Rams, the Saints have also lost key players due to their restructure strategy. In this offseason alone, they let their two best free agents — Terron Armstead and Marcus Williams — leave to sign with other teams. Last offseason was no different, as Trey Hendrickson helped Cincinnati reach the Super Bowl. Here’s a full breakdown of New Orleans’ recent gains and losses:

There are people that perceive the cap to be some sort of empty hole that teams can keep filing. Yet, these teams are being forced to make difficult decisions on impact players. If the cap were fake and resources were limitless, then why wouldn’t the Rams keep Von Miller? The notion that teams are just adding guys endlessly and can fit all of them is simply false. 

[Jericho]

16 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I mean, sure, but it's step 1.  

 

Every journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.  Or some such motivational bull****.  

 

Let's get step 1, then we can take step 2, then global conquest.  

 

I'm pretty sure step one is steal all the underpants

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

4 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

I'm pretty sure step one is steal all the underpants

Larry Michael already tried that.

 

We’re 25 years into Dan’s ownership and talking about taking step one by setting the goal of not being eliminated from the playoffs before December 🙄

[Voice_of_Reason]

12 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Same as how TH beat Tom Brady, Russell Wilson and other pro bowl QB's. 

Sigh. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

16 hours ago, Conn said:

Makes me wonder if he’ll take a 1-year prove-it type deal that we can maneuver our cap for and try FA again next year when he can hit the market while everyone still has their full allotment of cap dollars.

That's probably the worst for us, though.  A one year deal means the entire cap hit hits this year, and he's going to be looking at somewhere north of $8M to sign.  

 

I mean, if you can get him for less, great. 

 

But otherwise, you'd want to spread that hit out and keep his 2022 number as low as possible so they can get extensions done with Terry (and I think Holcomb too.)

[CommandB11]

8 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

That's probably the worst for us, though.  A one year deal means the entire cap hit hits this year, and he's going to be looking at somewhere north of $8M to sign.  

 

I mean, if you can get him for less, great. 

 

But otherwise, you'd want to spread that hit out and keep his 2022 number as low as possible so they can get extensions done with Terry (and I think Holcomb too.)

Terrys extension does not effect this years salary cap. His pay is already set for this year. An extension can be signed now but doesnt take effect until next offseason.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Sacks &#x27;n&#x27; Stuff said:

Larry Michael already tried that.

 

We’re 25 years into Dan’s ownership and talking about taking step one by setting the goal of not being eliminated from the playoffs before December 🙄

Well, in fairness, we spent

- the first year standing still, no steps taken in any direction.  (1999 with Norv)

- the second year sprinting up a hill to capture the flag, except the flag was on a different hill (the 2000 spending spree of the 1993 pro-bowl team). Lots of steps, wrong direction. 

- the third year turning around and identifying where the flag was (2001 with Marty).  At least got turned around and took a few steps in the right direction before....

- the fourth and fifth year sprinting in the opposite direction chasing a shiny object, once again on the wrong hill (Spurrier 2002-2003)

- the sixth through 9th years making some progress towards the hill with Gibbs (2004 - 2007).  Took some steps in the right direction.  

- the 10th and 11th years rolling down the hill away from the prize (Zorn 2008-2009). Not even steps in the wrong direction here, just a rolling mess. 

- the 12th - 13th years (first 2 years of Shanahan, 2010-2011) trying to stand back up, but keep falling down again.

- the 14th year SPRINTING up the RIGHT hill and getting almost to the top (2012) Thank you Griffin's magical year. 

- the 15th year pointing a bazooka at our legs and blowing them off (2013) (and it all came crashing down.)

- the 16th - 21st years meandering around a meadow with no particular goal, stopping to smell the flowers, getting stung in the nose by a bee.  (Jay/Bruce ineptitude of 2014-2019

- the 22nd year trying to find the direction and actually finding a compass and pointing in the right direction and looking longingly at the right direction (but not really taking a step yet) (2020, first year of Ron)

- the 23rd year, being so full of ourselves that we figured out the direction, we took a step and tripped over a tree root and suffered a hip subluxation.  

 

So here we are in year 24, and while we've taken the first step a few times before, it's always been followed by a million steps in the wrong direction.

 

So we try again.  

 

 

 

[Forever A Redskin]

Money and Cap issues aside, the only reason I see them wanting to bring in Bradberry is if they think he allows us to play more man-to-man like we tried to do in the beginning of the season last year.

 

How big of an upgrade is he over a year-2 Ben St-Juste? Do we trust Fuller to excel in the slot after playing so well on the outside last season? 

 

Lots of question marks surrounding this move.

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 minutes ago, CommandB11 said:

Terrys extension does not effect this years salary cap. His pay is already set for this year. An extension can be signed now but doesnt take effect until next offseason.

Not exactly.  His base salary is set, but the extension will come with a signing bonus, which he will be paid immediately.

 

The prorated component of the signing bonus will hit the 2022 salary cap number.  

 

Caveat: the team can really do whatever they want.  They can tear up the entire contract and set all the numbers any which way they want 

1 minute ago, Forever A Redskin said:

Money and Cap issues aside, the only reason I see them wanting to bring in Bradberry is if they think he allows us to play more man-to-man like we tried to do in the beginning of the season last year.

 

How big of an upgrade is he over a year-2 Ben St-Juste? Do we trust Fuller to excel in the slot after playing so well on the outside last season? 

 

Lots of question marks surrounding this move.

I've heard Bradberry is more of a zone guy, and WJIII is more of a man guy.  

 

The question about St. Juice is health, and if he's going to develop.  He missed half the year with concussions.  I haven't heard ANYTHING about him since.  

[Skinsinparadise]

16 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Well, in fairness, we spent

- the first year standing still, no steps taken in any direction.  (1999 with Norv)

- the second year sprinting up a hill to capture the flag, except the flag was on a different hill (the 2000 spending spree of the 1993 pro-bowl team). Lots of steps, wrong direction. 

- the third year turning around and identifying where the flag was (2001 with Marty).  At least got turned around and took a few steps in the right direction before....

- the fourth and fifth year sprinting in the opposite direction chasing a shiny object, once again on the wrong hill (Spurrier 2002-2003)

- the sixth through 9th years making some progress towards the hill with Gibbs (2004 - 2007).  Took some steps in the right direction.  

- the 10th and 11th years rolling down the hill away from the prize (Zorn 2008-2009). Not even steps in the wrong direction here, just a rolling mess. 

- the 12th - 13th years (first 2 years of Shanahan, 2010-2011) trying to stand back up, but keep falling down again.

- the 14th year SPRINTING up the RIGHT hill and getting almost to the top (2012) Thank you Griffin's magical year. 

- the 15th year pointing a bazooka at our legs and blowing them off (2013) (and it all came crashing down.)

- the 16th - 21st years meandering around a meadow with no particular goal, stopping to smell the flowers, getting stung in the nose by a bee.  (Jay/Bruce ineptitude of 2014-2019

- the 22nd year trying to find the direction and actually finding a compass and pointing in the right direction and looking longingly at the right direction (but not really taking a step yet) (2020, first year of Ron)

- the 23rd year, being so full of ourselves that we figured out the direction, we took a step and tripped over a tree root and suffered a hip subluxation.  

 

So here we are in year 24, and while we've taken the first step a few times before, it's always been followed by a million steps in the wrong direction.

 

So we try again.  

 

 

 

 

To me the sadest part of it is if you told me the peak moment for me at the time during the Dan era in the post season (last win) was that ugly game in Tampa in 2006, I'd say you are crazy. 

 

I am not so sure i am hoping for a SB one day any more.  now its can we win once in the playoffs?

 

Among the slew of pathetic Dan stories for me, one of the lowlights was reading how Dan took pride eons ago that he would give Jerry Jones a hard time for that he had more playoff wins than Dallas for a span of time in spite of it was nothing to brag about volume wise and they also had a bad record during his tenure at that point too which only got worse later on -- it just brought home to me how pathetically low the bar was becoming and it registers with me even more now than it did then. 

 

Edited May 11, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

29 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Well, in fairness, we spent

- the first year standing still, no steps taken in any direction.  (1999 with Norv)

- the second year sprinting up a hill to capture the flag, except the flag was on a different hill (the 2000 spending spree of the 1993 pro-bowl team). Lots of steps, wrong direction. 

- the third year turning around and identifying where the flag was (2001 with Marty).  At least got turned around and took a few steps in the right direction before....

- the fourth and fifth year sprinting in the opposite direction chasing a shiny object, once again on the wrong hill (Spurrier 2002-2003)

- the sixth through 9th years making some progress towards the hill with Gibbs (2004 - 2007).  Took some steps in the right direction.  

- the 10th and 11th years rolling down the hill away from the prize (Zorn 2008-2009). Not even steps in the wrong direction here, just a rolling mess. 

- the 12th - 13th years (first 2 years of Shanahan, 2010-2011) trying to stand back up, but keep falling down again.

- the 14th year SPRINTING up the RIGHT hill and getting almost to the top (2012) Thank you Griffin's magical year. 

- the 15th year pointing a bazooka at our legs and blowing them off (2013) (and it all came crashing down.)

- the 16th - 21st years meandering around a meadow with no particular goal, stopping to smell the flowers, getting stung in the nose by a bee.  (Jay/Bruce ineptitude of 2014-2019

- the 22nd year trying to find the direction and actually finding a compass and pointing in the right direction and looking longingly at the right direction (but not really taking a step yet) (2020, first year of Ron)

- the 23rd year, being so full of ourselves that we figured out the direction, we took a step and tripped over a tree root and suffered a hip subluxation.  

 

So here we are in year 24, and while we've taken the first step a few times before, it's always been followed by a million steps in the wrong direction.

 

So we try again.  

 

Which pretty well sums up why there is no hope and we should all just resign ourselves to perpetual failure. Any time the football people start to right the ship and the organization appears to be on the cusp of turning the corner, Dan WILL interject himself, get his little fingers into everything, and destroy what they are building.

 

It is partly because he is a piece of human garbage and also partially because, deep down, he knows that he is a worthless piece of human garbage. This sense of self loathing causes him to recognize that he doesn’t deserve success and subconsciously sabotage any chance of winning… like Thanos.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[SkinsFTW]

14 hours ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

Fortune favors the brave, not the conservative.

 

So you dug up a Dan Snyder quote from 2000 during Free Agency? 

 

 

[SkinsFTW]

4 minutes ago, Sacks &#x27;n&#x27; Stuff said:

 

It is partly because he is a piece of human garbage and also partially because, deep down, he knows that he is a worthless piece of human garbage. This sense of self loathing causes him to recognize that he doesn’t deserve success and subconsciously sabotage any chance of winning… like Thanos.

 

You're giving him way too much credit. 

 

He doesn't recognize any bit of his incompetence. He truly believes that his fantasy football moves are going to put the team over the top! After 20+ years of proof of the opposite. He's like a compulsive gambler with his last 100 bucks. You know he's going to lose but he's got this crazy look in his eye. Maybe thats the GLEAM that Marty was talking about, but the Dan Snyder incompetent version of it, lol. 

 

Doofus Dan, please fall into a sinkhole!

 

[NYSkins21]

46 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

To me the sadest part of it is if you told me the peak moment for me at the time during the Dan era in the post season (last win) was that ugly game in Tampa in 2006, I'd say you are crazy. 

 

I am not so sure i am hoping for a SB one day any more.  now its can we win once in the playoffs?

 

Among the slew of pathetic Dan stories for me, one of the lowlights was reading how Dan took pride eons ago that he would give Jerry Jones a hard time for that he had more playoff wins than Dallas for a span of time in spite of it was nothing to brag about volume wise and they also had a bad record during his tenure at that point too which only got worse later on -- it just brought home to me how pathetically low the bar was becoming and it registers with me even more now than it did then. 

 

While I agree with your distain for DS and the negative impact he has on his franchise, let's not lose focus on who has been making personnel moves of late. Good and the not so good.. This has been Ron's team. He's been brought in to change the culture and he has internally. This continues to be a work in progress. We haven't seen the benefits yet but they're coming.