The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randal 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariota and Fromm battle for QB2

[wit33]

8 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

If an organization as well-respected as Baltimore hasn't been able to extend Lamar, there must be something up.  Look at how easy Philly extended Hurts.  Look at how 31 fellow teams aren't going gaga over trading for Lamar (in contrast to Watson last year).  No one wants Lamar.  There has to be a reason why.

Mahomes was the guy to challenge the status quo not Lamar. Kirk snaked his way to a guaranteed deal but shorter term. Ravens would happily give Lamar a 3 year guaranteed deal. 

[Going Commando]

22 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

If an organization as well-respected as Baltimore hasn't been able to extend Lamar, there must be something up.  Look at how easy Philly extended Hurts.  Look at how 31 fellow teams aren't going gaga over trading for Lamar (in contrast to Watson last year).  No one wants Lamar.  There has to be a reason why.

 

My guess is that nobody wants to try and negotiate a 250 million dollar contract extension with a player trying to DIY the deal, with nobody but his mom for representation.  Doesn't matter how good the guy is, that is completely crazy and nobody wants a quarter of a billion dollars invested in crazy at QB.

[mhd24]

14 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

My guess is that nobody wants to try and negotiate a 250 million dollar contract extension with a player trying to DIY the deal, with nobody but his mom for representation.  Doesn't matter how good the guy is, that is completely crazy and nobody wants a quarter of a billion dollars invested in crazy at QB.

Yeah, that makes sense.  If he wants to save money, he should do the Ray Allen route and hire a contract lawyer on an hourly.  However, I think the NFLPA bylaws state that if you have representation, they must be NFLPA certified.  

[mistertim]

Yeah I assume there are multiple reasons that the Ravens (from all appearances at least) haven't gotten a bunch of offers for Lamar.

 

1) He's acting as his own agent with no professional representation which, as @Going Commandonoted, is bonkers. Especially when talking about a likely $250+ million deal

2) Teams may be wary in general about trading a huge haul and giving an enormous fully guaranteed contract to a running QB.

3) He's only had one truly elite year, and that was 4 seasons ago. Since then his production has been mostly pedestrian.

4) He has an injury history and is coming off of what wound up being a season ending knee injury.

[wit33]

2 hours ago, mistertim said:

Yeah I assume there are multiple reasons that the Ravens (from all appearances at least) haven't gotten a bunch of offers for Lamar.

 

1) He's acting as his own agent with no professional representation which, as @Going Commandonoted, is bonkers. Especially when talking about a likely $250+ million deal

2) Teams may be wary in general about trading a huge haul and giving an enormous fully guaranteed contract to a running QB.

3) He's only had one truly elite year, and that was 4 seasons ago. Since then his production has been mostly pedestrian.

4) He has an injury history and is coming off of what wound up being a season ending knee injury.

Could’ve stopped after number 1. Lol 

 

Ravens would sign Jackson to the Hurts deal in a heartbeat. Or many other organizations. 

[mistertim]

54 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Could’ve stopped after number 1. Lol 

 

Ravens would sign Jackson to the Hurts deal in a heartbeat. Or many other organizations. 

 

So why haven't they? Do you really think it's only because he's acting as his own agent and has nothing to do with the other factors I mentioned?

[wit33]

22 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

So why haven't they? Do you really think it's only because he's acting as his own agent and has nothing to do with the other factors I mentioned?

Uhh… because reportedly he wants $250mil guaranteed. 
 

Maybe I’m wrong, but my guess is you’d be alone on island if thinking Ravens wouldn’t sign Jackson to a Hurts like deal. I believe Ravens offered $135mil guaranteed 3 year deal, not far off Hurts guarantees on a 5 year deal. 

[Darth Tater]

I saw a comment that part of why you need an agent for contracts of the size and structure Lamar seems to want is to have someone to explain what you are being offered.

[mistertim]

7 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Uhh… because reportedly he wants $250mil guaranteed. 
 

Maybe I’m wrong, but my guess is you’d be alone on island if thinking Ravens wouldn’t sign Jackson to a Hurts like deal. I believe Ravens offered $135mil guaranteed 3 year deal, not far off Hurts guarantees on a 5 year deal. 

 

But again, why haven't they? Has he really made it clear to them that he just doesn't want to play for the Ravens anymore period? It's either that or they don't think he's worth a Hurts like deal. And other teams also don't seem to think so either. At least not that plus multiple 1st round picks.

 

Watson and Wilson were both long gone in March of last year. The Ravens put the non-exclusive tag on Lamar at the beginning of March. It's coming up on the end of April now and we have hardly heard a peep about any potential suitors.

 

Either the Ravens and Lamar have some but are keeping it super quiet, or the demand for him isn't as high as he and they thought.

 

Sure, maybe it's all because he's acting as his own agent. But I still think it's probably a combination of factors, including that.

[tmandoug1]

He's being a dumbass.....period. He got offered a sweet deal, above what he should have been offered base upon performance. He's going to run out of runway soon, which is sad because he was good to go until his last injury...now he is suspect.

[mistertim]

13 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

He's being a dumbass.....period. He got offered a sweet deal, above what he should have been offered base upon performance. He's going to run out of runway soon, which is sad because he was good to go until his last injury...now he is suspect.

 

Yeah that old adage that a person who represents himself has a fool for a client rings very true here. Lamar could quite possibly have screwed himself over big time.

 

From what I remember reading, he turned down what was something like a 3 year $200 million guaranteed deal. I think it was $133 million at signing with other guarantees that would have brought it up to $200 million.

 

But instead of being insanely rich right now and set for the foreseeable future, he decided to play stupid games and overvalued himself. Now he apparently has little to no interest from other teams and might end up sitting out 2023 if he refuses to sign his franchise tag. Which means not only will he not get paid, but he'll potentially get fined for every day he misses.

 

Then he'll miss an entire season, which means his value will go down even further for 2024. He may end up having to accept backup money at this pace. This is what happens when you bet on yourself and lose.

[Warhead36]

Just hire an agent man. Sure they take a commission but its such a huge load off your shoulders. And agents can sell you to teams/coaches.

 

Lamar is just a giant case of stupid.

[Koolblue13]

Lamar is nuts. He's a bad post season QB and now he's acting like a bad off season QB. He's always going to miss games, and with the absurd and childish contract goals, there won't be the team to carry them without him. Dudes the anti Hurts.

 

I'm happy with Howell.

[MartinC]

17 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

My guess is that nobody wants to try and negotiate a 250 million dollar contract extension with a player trying to DIY the deal, with nobody but his mom for representation.  Doesn't matter how good the guy is, that is completely crazy and nobody wants a quarter of a billion dollars invested in crazy at QB.

 

This plus I think teams know that the Ravens would match pretty much any offer sheet they could negotiate. Teams are not interested in doing all that work to negotiate direct with the player - which as you point out is not straight forward - when they would just be doing the work for the Ravens. 

[88Comrade2000]

Nothing is happening this year. Now next year, who knows what happens. We will have a new owner, new Gm, most likely new coach.  Most likely, we will also look to get that qb.

 

Yeah, Sam’s Club expects Sam will solidify himself as the starter 24.

 

Frankly, with a new coach coming in 24, expect roster turnover the next couple of years. Only the core performing holdovers will remain.

[Daniel.redskins]

16 hours ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Yeah, Sam’s Club expects Sam will solidify himself as the starter 24.

What makes you think Howell won't work work?  To me he has all the tools.  Strongest arm we've had in 20 years.  Plus he's mobile and extremely accurate.  People need to stop comparing him to Hienicke.  Noodle arm Hienicke was fools gold.  Howell has real potential.  

[88Comrade2000]

1 hour ago, Daniel.redskins said:

What makes you think Howell won't work work?  To me he has all the tools.  Strongest arm we've had in 20 years.  Plus he's mobile and extremely accurate.  People need to stop comparing him to Hienicke.  Noodle arm Hienicke was fools gold.  Howell has real potential.  

All you club members expect Sam to take us to the playoffs just because we were one win away from doing that under Taylor.

 

I think he’s going struggle in his first year as starter. Whether he starts later in the season after Jacoby beats him out or he’s day one starter. He will struggle and I think he gets benched for a spell.

 

So, unless your Sam’s club members prediction comes true, he’s likely to be replaced in 24 by the new Gm and new coach. The owner also may want to move on.

[zCommander]

15 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

All you club members expect Sam to take us to the playoffs just because we were one win away from doing that under Taylor.

 

I think he’s going struggle in his first year as starter. Whether he starts later in the season after Jacoby beats him out or he’s day one starter. He will struggle and I think he gets benched for a spell.

 

So, unless your Sam’s club members prediction comes true, he’s likely to be replaced in 24 by the new Gm and new coach. The owner also may want to move on.

 

Playoffs? Please he is taking us all the way to the SB!!!! Yup, you heard it here first from me.

 

Jacoby isn't beating out a QB who has talent of a 1st rounder. Period. Btw, Jacoby was selected 91st in the 3rd round by the Patriots and has been bouncing around the league since 2016.  

 

As for next year, he will be our franchise QB..  

[wit33]

1 hour ago, zCommander said:

 

Playoffs? Please he is taking us all the way to the SB!!!! Yup, you heard it here first from me.

 

Jacoby isn't beating out a QB who has talent of a 1st rounder. Period. Btw, Jacoby was selected 91st in the 3rd round by the Patriots and has been bouncing around the league since 2016.  

 

As for next year, he will be our franchise QB..  

 

No acknowledgment of potential development as one commits to a craft? The dudes been putting in work for 8 years and still gets labeled a 3rd round talent. Imagine the plight for Howell upcoming
 

 

[zCommander]

3 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

The dudes been putting in work for 8 years and still gets labeled a 3rd round talent. Imagine the plight for Howell upcoming 

 

 

After being in the league for 3 years and In 2019 he had the chance to make a name for himself when Luck quit and got the opportunity of a whole season to make a name for himself and couldn't do it. So yeah he gets that label. Probably went too high by the Patriots I would bet. At least Howell was projected to be 1st rounder or a high 2nd rounder. To be fair, I guess, one thing Howell will have is the talent around him. Howell is in great position to run with it so does Brissett but if Howell beats him out you will know why. 

[wit33]

8 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

After being in the league for 3 years and In 2019 he had the chance to make a name for himself when Luck quit and got the opportunity of a whole season to make a name for himself and couldn't do it. So yeah he gets that label. Probably went too high by the Patriots I would bet. At least Howell was projected to be 1st rounder or a high 2nd rounder. To be fair, I guess, one thing Howell will have is the talent around him. Howell is in great position to run with it so does Brissett but if Howell beats him out you will know why. 

True, he’s gotten some opportunities and hasn’t been able to escape being just a competent QB like 70% of the other QBs. 
 

Hoping Howell knocks him out during the “competition phase” this off season. 

[Skinsinparadise]

One member of the organization said last year before the draft that they would have targeted Howell in the first three rounds had they not traded for Wentz. When Howell remained available in the fifth, they pounced.

“I thought he was going to go much higher,” Dominik said. “I thought he could compete with the third-round guys. Having watched the tape and the throwing mechanics and his decision-making and talking to guys at North Carolina -- they didn’t feel it was the best opportunity for him but he battled through it -- I thought he was going to go higher. It was great value for the Commanders.”

Here’s what ESPN’s draft experts said about Howell -- and how they’d compare him to this year’s class:

---

Mel Kiper, Jr.

 

2022 rating: Fifth in the class. Kiper said he anticipated Howell being drafted in the second or third round.

Mel says: “If you remember, going into that final season at Carolina in August of that year, he had a first-round grade. He looked really good going into the year. He has the talent to be a starting quarterback in this league. It’s a leap of faith to say he’s our guy, but he could have gone a lot higher than the fifth round.”

How would Howell compare to this class? “He’d be in there with Hooker and ahead of [Stetson] Bennett, ahead of Max Duggan, Jake Haener so either at five or six. I would have a second-round grade.”

---

Todd McShay

2022 rating: The fifth QB behind Malik Willis, Kenny Pickett, Desmond Ridder and Matt Corral.

 

McShay says: “I had a third-round grade on Howell. I obviously liked him a bit more than teams in the QB market last year. I always viewed him as a good backup in the NFL and someone who could win some games and keep a team competitive if the starter went down for a handful of games.”

How would Howell compare to this class? McShay said he’d have him as the eighth-rated quarterback in this class, behind his top four of Bryce Young, C.J. Stroud, Anthony Richardson and Will Levis as well as Hooker, Haener and Dorian Thompson-Robinson.

---

Jordan Reid

2022 rating: Third-round grade.

Reid says: “His offense was a big hurdle for him in a Phil Longo offense where they attack that middle of the field a lot. But when those pieces left, he just wasn’t able to uplift those guys -- he didn’t have great receivers to throw to. He took on more of a rushing role. The physical gifts weren’t the question; he has enough arm strength to survive. Is he good enough to uplift his surroundings? He wasn’t able to do that consistently at Carolina. That’s one reason he fell to the fifth round.”

How would Howell compare to this class? Reid said he’d be sixth on his list, right after Hooker.

---

Matt Miller

2022 rating: Fifth-round.

 

Quote: “I was not a Sam Howell fan; I didn’t see it. The loss of talent around him saw his play slip and that affected him and then you see ... where size comes into the picture. The height wasn’t there. I was never blown away. I thought in Week 18 he played better than I expected and I was surprised by that. To say you’re rolling with a fifth-round pick when you have another draft class of QBs... that’s a position you’ve got to swing at until you hit it. I was surprised by their stubbornness, ‘No, we’ll roll with Sam Howell.’ Jacoby is the best quarterback in that room right now.”

How would Howell compare to this class? Miller said he’d be his sixth quarterback, after Hooker.

“I didn’t see the elite starter traits from him like I do the top five this year,” Miller said. “The scheme can cover some of that up, but a shorter QB without great twitch to make plays outside the pocket and a throwing motion that’s all arm worried me.”

 

https://www.espn.com/blog/washington-commanders/post/_/id/42870/where-would-sam-howell-rank-in-the-2023-class-we-ask-four-draft-experts

[tmandoug1]

Well that's not good......hopefully Howell proves them wrong. Otherwise same ol same ol.

[dunfer]

He looked good that time he beat dallas.

 

we shouldnt waste starter picks on long-shot qbs. And we still dont want lamar

[88Comrade2000]

We are the only team that supposedly had Howell ranked high. He was the 5th or 6th qb drafted.  Wish him well but reality says it just be a one year thing.