Thinking Skins Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 14 minutes ago, KDawg said: It's not plausible to think you can win with a passing game with 3 IOL who are, quite frankly, awful. We didn't have any kind of good personnel on offense in that stretch. We were using Gibson poorly due to Robinson being out, we couldn't protect due to the IOL and our receivers couldn't touch the ball because Wentz was doing his Haynesworth interpretation. It's not some crazy puzzle to put together. It's all right in front of us for why things work and then they don't. Nick Martin is perhaps the worst OL we've seen play for us in years. Years. And that's scary. That may be true but they legit thought that Norwell and Turner and Roullier/Wes/Martin/Martin was a good plan on the OL for the pass style offense. If the shooting doesn't occur, do we start more balanced? probably. But I think we got a 28 million dollar guy thinking we could have a Chiefs type offense. Its what Sheehan was talking about all summer. It was the pitch they made to QBs in the offseason. It was the faith they had in their OL coach. It may not have been justified but it was there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 Just now, Thinking Skins said: That may be true but they legit thought that Norwell and Turner and Roullier/Wes/Martin/Martin was a good plan on the OL for the pass style offense. If the shooting doesn't occur, do we start more balanced? probably. But I think we got a 28 million dollar guy thinking we could have a Chiefs type offense. Its what Sheehan was talking about all summer. It was the pitch they made to QBs in the offseason. It was the faith they had in their OL coach. It may not have been justified but it was there. They thought wrong. I don't understand what them thinking it was a good plan matters. It clearly wasn't. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted December 1, 2022 Author Share Posted December 1, 2022 There is a lot of speculation as to why the Oline was addressed so poorly this offseason. Snyders cash flow Good coaching failed player development Injuries (which I think really matters) Wentz looked pretty damn good, until Chase and Wes went down, along with BRob. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWinzit Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: I am not in the camp that Scott Turner is an idiot and I'd think he'd have to be if he didn't learn from what worked and didn't work this season including with Carson. If we can see if from our couch, I figure he and I know his dad is very involved can see what we can and more. I talked about this before but what sold me on Scott last season was zeroing in on the run game when i was at the Vegas game. And he had so much misdirection in it that it fooled my eyes over and over again. The PFF guy was talking about the same thing this morning -- he's really good at setting up a run game that keeps the defense guessing. The run game in their strength. I don't think Turner would go back to hey lets try again what we did against the Eagles in game 1. I don't think BFS meant Turner would continue that route -- or maybe he did if so I'll let him clarify. I think he meant that's clearly how they started. I am not in the Turner is an idiot camp either. I am just get the impression he would be craving using Wentz's arm more and it begin to take him out of the plan that is working. It would be great to get some of the other WR's involved in the game as they are being under used yet sticking to run heavy - play action scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: Simplest way for me to put it is. A. The defense and run game are winning games for them. Taylor is doing just enough not to screw that up. bench him if B. The defense and run game are winning games for them. Taylor does just enough to screw that up. I don't think he's played that hot of late in their wins. Bram Weinstein the lead Heinicke Hive dude in the media even admits Heinicke isn't playing well lately. So if lets say the opponent's defense instead of dropping his picks, catches them and these 4th quarter picks burn him like they did against Minnesota versus Eagles-Indy, then I'd consider benching him. The cold weather coming up isn't going to help him. And no sarcasm intended but the way Heinicke built up Dallas' defense last off season and the way he played against them give me the vibe he's intimidated by them and that's going to be a big game. My main concern about Wentz and its a big one is the dude isn't known to play his best when the lights are brightest. That's fair. but his PIC did cost us the Vikings game. Then we go 3 and out and they score again and the Ridgeway penalty hurts us. But that was coming off a 3 game winning streak (2 by Heinicke) and there was no question that you don't bench Heinicke there (partially because Wentz wasn't ready yet and partially because Howell isn't either). But that's a typical game I'm talking about because Heinicke had 2 TDs and 1 Int and 150 yards. So are we saying that the same thing (down to the 4th quarter pic) gets him benched this time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chump Bailey Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 I'd like to see us go after Jack Conklin offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 6 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said: There is a lot of speculation as to why the Oline was addressed so poorly this offseason. Snyders cash flow Good coaching failed player development Injuries (which I think really matters) Wentz looked pretty damn good, until Chase and Wes went down, along with BRob. Wes coming back I think is big. Part of the reason why Masko was hailed as a genius was the O line didn't fall off in the first two years when they had injuries. Lucas and Wes were a big part of that. Lucas has played better of late at least as to run blocking. The PFF guy hailed him this morning. Rivera has talked about how Larsen has stabilized center. Looks like Cosmi is moving to guard and that should be interesting to watch. The O line still isn't good but not as bad IMO than it was earlier. I am not inpressed with what I saw from Wentz but i do admit he had the perfect storm of misery. The defense and run game wasn't coming on yet. And Nick Martin could barely got a snap right let alone block. We ironically did see a little of the lean on the defense and run game in the Bears game when Wentz played with a broken finger -- if Heincke played that game people would be crowing about they won because of Taylor's moxie. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: Wes coming back I think is big. Part of the reason why Masko was hailed as a genius was the O line didn't fall off in the first two years when they had injuries. Lucas and Wes were a big part of that. Lucas has played better of late at least as to run blocking. The PFF guy hailed him this morning. Rivera has talked about how Larsen has stabilized center. Looks like Cosmi is moving to guard and that should be interesting to watch. The O line still isn't good but not as bad IMO than it was earlier. I am not inpressed with what I saw from Wentz but i do admit he had the perfect storm of misery. The defense and run game wasn't coming on yet. And Nick Martin could barely got a snap right let alone block. We ironically did see a little of the lean on the defense and run game in the Bears game when Wentz played with a broken finger -- if Heincke played that game people would be crowing about they won because of Taylor's moxie. Yup. I'm not implying Wentz should start. I don't know. But it's tough to take a guy out who is on a pretty big win streak, REGARDLESS of the circumstances of that win streak. But I am saying I think Wentz, with this iteration of the team and a more run heavy gameplan (because Robinson is healthy and the OL went from god awful to meh) would be much better than he looked in a few of those games. Oh, and he doesn't have a broken finger. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted December 1, 2022 Author Share Posted December 1, 2022 1 minute ago, KDawg said: Yup. I'm not implying Wentz should start. I don't know. But it's tough to take a guy out who is on a pretty big win streak, REGARDLESS of the circumstances of that win streak. But I am saying I think Wentz, with this iteration of the team and a more run heavy gameplan (because Robinson is healthy and the OL went from god awful to meh) would be much better than he looked in a few of those games. Oh, and he doesn't have a broken finger. 5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: Wes coming back I think is big. Part of the reason why Masko was hailed as a genius was the O line didn't fall off in the first two years when they had injuries. Lucas and Wes were a big part of that. Lucas has played better of late at least as to run blocking. The PFF guy hailed him this morning. Rivera has talked about how Larsen has stabilized center. Looks like Cosmi is moving to guard and that should be interesting to watch. The O line still isn't good but not as bad IMO than it was earlier. I am not inpressed with what I saw from Wentz but i do admit he had the perfect storm of misery. The defense and run game wasn't coming on yet. And Nick Martin could barely got a snap right let alone block. We ironically did see a little of the lean on the defense and run game in the Bears game when Wentz played with a broken finger -- if Heincke played that game people would be crowing about they won because of Taylor's moxie. Losing your 3 IOL and you RB1 to start the season is pretty brutal for a new QB in a system for sure. Larson and now Wes coming back should really help too. I agree you don't change the QB when you're winning (I remember Bloodsoe not getting his job back for some no name rookie ) , but a healthy Wentz certainly opens the offense up as we get towards the playoffs. I was a big Wentz guy, sure, but I don't think we can close the book on him yet. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 I want Wentz back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 28 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: Wes coming back I think is big. Part of the reason why Masko was hailed as a genius was the O line didn't fall off in the first two years when they had injuries. Lucas and Wes were a big part of that. Lucas has played better of late at least as to run blocking. The PFF guy hailed him this morning. Rivera has talked about how Larsen has stabilized center. Looks like Cosmi is moving to guard and that should be interesting to watch. The O line still isn't good but not as bad IMO than it was earlier. I am not inpressed with what I saw from Wentz but i do admit he had the perfect storm of misery. The defense and run game wasn't coming on yet. And Nick Martin could barely got a snap right let alone block. We ironically did see a little of the lean on the defense and run game in the Bears game when Wentz played with a broken finger -- if Heincke played that game people would be crowing about they won because of Taylor's moxie. Where did you hear Cosmi is moving to Guard? As far as I know he's still splitting snaps 50/50 with Lucas at RT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 9 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said: That's fair. but his PIC did cost us the Vikings game. Then we go 3 and out and they score again and the Ridgeway penalty hurts us. But that was coming off a 3 game winning streak (2 by Heinicke) and there was no question that you don't bench Heinicke there (partially because Wentz wasn't ready yet and partially because Howell isn't either). But that's a typical game I'm talking about because Heinicke had 2 TDs and 1 Int and 150 yards. So are we saying that the same thing (down to the 4th quarter pic) gets him benched this time? It's hard for me to quantify. I don't think he's playing well. He's not been horrible but its to my eyes distinctly below average QB play -- if that below average play sinks deeper and they lose, its on the table for me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ball Security Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 3 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said: Where did you hear Cosmi is moving to Guard? As far as I know he's still splitting snaps 50/50 with Lucas at RT. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 3 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said: Where did you hear Cosmi is moving to Guard? As far as I know he's still splitting snaps 50/50 with Lucas at RT. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 9 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said: I want Wentz back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 I'm curious what Wentz can do behind an OL that has restabilized and with the new run first mindset. The Colts were run first last year too and Wentz had a real good year statistically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhd24 Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: It's hard for me to quantify. I don't think he's playing well. He's not been horrible but its to my eyes distinctly below average QB play -- if that below average play sinks deeper and they lose, its on the table for me. We shouldn't have been in the Viking game in the first place considering the ref gifted us the Samuel TD on the awful throw by Taylor in the first place intro triple coverage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: It's hard for me to quantify. I don't think he's playing well. He's not been horrible but its to my eyes distinctly below average QB play -- if that below average play sinks deeper and they lose, its on the table for me. I can somewhat get this and even if we go by your definition earlier, I'm in favor of going with Howell over Wentz based on potential and looking into next year. We can't afford to keep Wentz and Payne so we can give Payne some of the Wentz money and then the salary cap increase goes to Sweat and then our starter is on a rookie/backup contract and we're set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 6 minutes ago, zCommander said: I'm smoking the paper planes that Heinicke is throwing... But mostly, I'm more interested in seeing what Wentz would look like, with an OC who is not obsessed with throwing on every play, like Turner was initially. Wentz is clearly not a guy that can function that way. "Winning games" I scertainly something. I'll give him that. But it clearly looks like all it her facets of the team have improved since Wentz went out, including coaching. The defense us the biggest example. I would like to see what he could do in this scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 (edited) Edited December 1, 2022 by zCommander 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 15 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said: I'm smoking the paper planes that Heinicke is throwing... But mostly, I'm more interested in seeing what Wentz would look like, with an OC who is not obsessed with throwing on every play, like Turner was initially. Wentz is clearly not a guy that can function that way. "Winning games" I scertainly something. I'll give him that. But it clearly looks like all it her facets of the team have improved since Wentz went out, including coaching. The defense us the biggest example. I would like to see what he could do in this scenario. Right now is not the time to see what Wentz looks like when we are one of the team in the playoff. They only way Wentz comes in if push came to shove and something drastic needs to happen to further secure that playoff spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 1 minute ago, zCommander said: Right now is not the time to see what Wentz looks like when we are one of the team in the playoff. They only way Wentz comes in if push came to shove and something drastic needs to happen to further secure that playoff spot. Oh, I agree wholeheartedly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 59 minutes ago, mhd24 said: We shouldn't have been in the Viking game in the first place considering the ref gifted us the Samuel TD on the awful throw by Taylor in the first place intro triple coverage. The ref said Taylor's moxie was so contagious that he wanted to make a play for him. 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Ball Security said: Didn't know I had anything in common with Sam Cosmi but here we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, tmandoug1 said: Would it be correct to say that Wentz has a strong arm but no touch/timing? I seem to remember him zipping **** at a 100 mph to receivers/backs on short routes. Missing completely on easy passes but being able to air it out to Jahan on some pretty nice plays. Not sure more time in the playbook fixes that does it? He had all of preseason to get things squared away. Maybe the staff recognizes his flaws can't be fixed. Just wierd to stick with "it", "moxie" because of a winning streak. It's fair to say that. I don't think Heinicke is that much better with those first level throws, but agree he's better with them -- Taylor's accuracy can be shaky with them, players have to fish down or up often to catch his passes, even the layup easy ones but considering he doesn't have a fastball, touch is always fine with Taylor -- we don't have to worry about too much mustard really ever on a pass from Taylor. Edited December 1, 2022 by Skinsinparadise 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now