The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Est.1974]

10 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

Given the Bears don’t have a 2022 first, used for Fields, and they would presumably need 3 first to get Watson, would you offer #11 straight up for Fields?

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Given the Bears don’t have a 2022 first, used for Fields, and they would presumably need 3 first to get Watson, would you offer #11 straight up for Fields?

Yes.

[KDawg]

6 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Landscapes are intertwined

 

Every movement of a QB either takes a competitor off the market, or wriggles free another QB to pursue. Even if they don't come here, some of these QB's final destinations are still of critical import to our own endeavors.

Since we’re going to nitpick (like the poster who said the Watson stuff mattered) I’ll do the same.

 

For every QB move it means there is also another potential team in the QB market. There is no guarantee the Texans stick with Mills. So if Watson is moved they may be adding themselves to the market as another team is removed.

 

So again I ask, why do we care what happens with Watson when discussing our Football Team’s QB position?

 

I’ll start to worry about teams in the market when the market begins to settle. Until then there’s a lot of things that can happen. Tampa being possibly in play is more important to the discussion than where Watson goes, for instance.

 

We care about additional teams (not teams themselves but the number) and additional QBs being added to the market. 

Edited January 25, 2022 by KDawg

[Koolblue13]

5 hours ago, zskins said:

 Taylor can be the bridge. 

There is zero chance that you watched any of those games last weekend and could reasonably think this.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Given the Bears don’t have a 2022 first, used for Fields, and they would presumably need 3 first to get Watson, would you offer #11 straight up for Fields?

 

Definitely

[Skinsinparadise]

the top big time throws ranking via the season

 

 

 

 

 

[MrJL]

40 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

There is zero chance that you watched any of those games last weekend and could reasonably think this.

 

why do you want to be in the playoffs before your team is really competent and ready to start the new guy?  If the bridge QB can get you deep into the playoffs why do you need the new guy so desperately?

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

why do you want to be in the playoffs before your team is really competent and ready to start the new guy?  If the bridge QB can get you deep into the playoffs why do you need the new guy so desperately?

 

Wait...

 

You think Heinicke can get us deep into the playoffs?

 

Further, you are questioning wanting to be in the playoffs before being ready and then implying Heinicke can take us deep in the playoffs before the team is ready.

 

I think maybe this is a morning, "need more coffee" post?

 

But, just to move the conversation forward I'll add this question: Why do you think the team isn't ready?

Edited January 25, 2022 by KDawg

[Conn]

4 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

why do you want to be in the playoffs before your team is really competent and ready to start the new guy?  If the bridge QB can get you deep into the playoffs why do you need the new guy so desperately?

 

 

You realize he’s responding to a post about Taylor Heinicke being “the bridge”? You don’t actually think Heinicke can get us deep into the playoffs right? 

[MrJL]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

Wait...

 

You think Heinicke can get us deep into the playoffs?

 

well last year he was barely kept out of the second round  by the GOAT however I wasn't thinking about that the point here is presumably you don't since you're talking the divisional round.  BUT why do you want the bridge QB to take us there?

 

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

well last year he was barely kept out of the second round  by the GOAT however I wasn't thinking about that the point here is presumably you don't since you're talking the divisional round.  BUT why do you want the bridge QB to take us there?

 

 

Because you can't get to the show without having the chance.

 

Because I hate suffering through awful season after awful season.

 

Because I think this team is a good receiver, a blunt force work horse back and a QB away from being competitive.

 

Next: I'm not talking about the divisional round. You just said "deep into the playoffs". Does that mean divisional round to you? I'd qualify "deep" into the playoffs as the championship game. You said you didn't think this team was ready to get to the PLAYOFFS and then implied Heinicke could get us DEEP into the playoffs... despite the team not being ready in your view and despite, well, Taylor Heinicke. 

Edited January 25, 2022 by KDawg

[Koolblue13]

"why do you want to go deep into the playoffs" 

 

maybe today is a good day to be outside.

[goskins10]

So if Brady goes anywhere he has to retire based on the contract ($32M dead cap, $11.7M additional cap hit, no savings), not that the Bucs would release him anyway. But if he does retire, doesn't Tampa become a prime destination for the top FAs? 

 

It would not be completely crazy to think Rogers to Tampa is not possible. That would throw the entire QB FA landscape as someone else called it. How fascinating would that be. I have no idea if that happens - likely does not but fun to think about. Funny thing is Brady only leaves about$12M on the table if he retires. So it's not like it costs him +$35M even though there is a major team CAP hit. He counts $20.M against the CAP if he stays. That $12M barely pays the taxes on Gisele's income so he would not be missing it. As a football fan I would find it fascinating.

 

It's impact to us would limit our options and we are not the prime destination even with Ron who is a known players coach. Those saying they want to hear Watson say he doesn't want to come here - he has already said that through his agent. Rogers has pretty much said the same thing. Wilson will cost way too much - but his cost is prohibitive. Like Watson and Rogers, he would cost both CAP and draft capitol since you have to trade for him. 

 

The only one after that holds any interest for me is Mariota. But I think you still need to draft a QB high. Yes, the hit rate on highly drafted QBs is not great. But the number of high profile QBs changing teams and having SB success is an even shorter list. 

 

If you can get Mariota or trubisky cheap and use them as a bridge to your drafted QB, then OK. Otherwise roll with Taylor as backup and let the rookie take his lumps. This is a pretty decent oline and with another offseason I expect it to get better even letting Brandon walk. which they need to do. Matsko has done an amazing job considering all the injuries and moving pieces and not having anyone truly elite. The fourth C came in a played very well. That says it all for me. 

 

Should be an interesting offseason - one of the most entertaining in a long time as quite a few big names should be moving teams. 

 

 

 

[FootballZombie]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

Since we’re going to nitpick (like the poster who said the Watson stuff mattered) I’ll do the same.

 

For every QB move it means there is also another potential team in the QB market. There is no guarantee the Texans stick with Mills. So if Watson is moved they may be adding themselves to the market as another team is removed.

 

So again I ask, why do we care what happens with Watson when discussing our Football Team’s QB position?

 

For the very reason you pointed out. What if Texans believe in Mills? Sure there is a chance that it creates another QB needy team to compete against, but the other side of that coin holds true as well. It could very well lessen the teams in the marketplace. Who knows?

 

Furthermore, what if Watson goes to a team like the Raiders, and Hou does not want Carr? Same for the Dolphins/Tua, Eagles/Hurts and several other teams/players. Not only would a team be eliminated, you could see new QBs added to the availability pool, which obviously effects our situation greatly.

 

Watson going anywhere in the NFL has the potential to drastically impact our QB outlook by shaking up who is available and who we are competing against. That alone is enough to keep a close eye on the situation. No matter who gets him, as long as he is moved before we make our plunge at whatever QB we get, its more likely than not going to have some domino effect on us, and that could be significant if it jars loose a QB we may be interested in.

 

Same goes for Rodgers, Wilson and any starter level QB.

 

I don't see the logic in not paying attention. It would be equally weird to not focus on any QB not on our roster. Why should you care about Carr, Rodgers, Wilson or Trubisky when discussing our QB position? You should. Its silly not to

 

Edited January 25, 2022 by FootballZombie

[KDawg]

6 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

For the very reason you pointed out. What if Texans believe in Mills? Sure there is a chance that it creates another QB needy team to compete against, but the other side of that coin holds true as well. It could very well lessen the teams in the marketplace. Who knows?

 

Furthermore, what if Watson goes to a team like the Raiders, and Hou does not want Carr? Same for the Dolphins/Tua, Eagles/Hurts and several other teams/players. Not only would a team be eliminated, you could see new QBs added to the availability pool, which obviously effects our situation greatly.

 

Watson going anywhere in the NFL has the potential to drastically impact our QB outlook by shaking up who is available and who we are competing against. That alone is enough to keep a close eye on the situation. No matter who gets him, as long as he is moved before we make our plunge at whatever QB we get, its more likely than not going to have some domino effect on us, and that could be significant if it jars loose a QB we may be interested in.

 

Same goes for Rodgers, Wilson and any starter level QB.

 

I don't see the logic in not paying attention. It would be equally weird to not focus on any QB not on our roster. Why should you care about Carr, Rodgers, Wilson or Trubisky when discussing our QB position? You should. Its silly not to

 

 

 

I don't care about discussing Watson as a potential quarterback for the WFT as that poster pointed out. Why? As I posted.... because he doesn't want to come here. Won't waive the no trade clause.

 

Has legal issues.

 

Why bother discussing him as an option for the WFT as that poster insinuated in their original post?

 

Finding out where he lands (if he even lands anywhere, which... I think is low probability) matters... when it happens. 

Edited January 25, 2022 by KDawg

[Skinsinparadise]

Rodgers going to Denver actually would be good IMO because it takes them out of the Wilson derby.  Personally, I think the only two players potentially avaliable that could save for now this sinking ship of a fanbase are Rodgers and Wilson.  Rodgers we'd have no shot at even if this was a good franchise IMO because he wants to go to the West Coast and we are in the NFC.    Watson makes no sense for either party even if this was a good team -- its the perfect storm of PR hell for both sides.

 

So for me its Wilson or bust a for the top tier QBs.  I get the vibe that they will try to blow Seattle away with an offer and somehow I guess Rivera will try to persuade Wilson.  i am not in the camp that think its a completely hopeless attempt.  I used to think it was.  but with new information about this which I talked about, i no longer feel that way.  Is it a long shot? Yeah definitely.  Impossible my gut is no.

 

My position on Trubisky is kind of complex

 

A.  I am hardcore he isn't a bust.

B.  I am also hardcore he won't be a successful reclamation project

C.  I am hardcore that this dude is Daniel Jones, a middling starter, just enough to tease, but he doesn't have "it"

D.  Better than Heinicke but not by a mile

E.  Deserved or not deserved, Trubisky is the biggest punchline among the available QBs right now.  I already see some screaming on twitter among other places.  Among other things, my brother in law who is a WFT fan texts me yesterday, Rivera underestimates the problem with fans if Trubisky is the way he goes.   So while I think they end up drafting a dude if they take Trubisky they need to be braced for a month of bad PR until that happens

 

I'd love to see Trunisky in NY.  As some here are pinning to see Wilson wearing NY blue because they'd rather see that then them using their two top ten picks.  For me that's a nightmare.  the Giants would own us IMO if they had Wilson.  But Trubisky IMO would likely represent a way to keep NY stuck in QB purgatory.  To me Trubisky is slightly faster than Jones.  Jones is more accurate.  Trubisky has a slightly better arm.  IMO the Giants will have two of the same things more or less on their roster.  But more on point, I want NY out of the QB derby. 

 

As for Jimmy G.  Feels a bit like when Gibbs brought in Brunell.  Like Brunell he stabilizes the spot, veteran leader, nothing killer, but competent.  I am ok with it if it doesn't require a first AND they draft a successor either this year or next year. 

 

I think one point IMO that some miss is i don't think we can afford to go though a few more of years of pain or even flat mediocrity.  This franchise is a sinking ship. Jacksonville used to be the laugingstock of the NFL as far as a team with no fans.   Now its us.   We got the joke stadium of the league.  The joke owner.  Joke attendance.  Joke TV ratings.  And among the jester level things going wrong about this franchise, the ineptitude at QB is front and center. 

 

I don't think they can sell this fan base easily about the QB spot.  Wilson IMO would save them but its a long shot.  Carr I think would come off mixed but mostly positive but I don't think he will hit the trade market.  Jimmy G alone would be greeted with mostly yawns from the fans base but I think more accepted with a rookie along with him.  Trubisky greeted by a lot of scorn but they'd offset that if they draft a Qb in the first, not so sure the 2nd round.

 

 

Edited January 25, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[FootballZombie]

8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Finding out where he lands (if he even lands anywhere, which... I think is low probability) matters... when it happens. 

 

You can say that for any player traded to any team, but that should not stop you from preparing for various scenarios.

 

As long as he's an option for somebody, even if you don't think it us, his trade has the potential to massively effect us. That warrants attention. Even if he does not want to come here, dude might just be our pathway to a Carr or Tua. You don't have to focus on his end destination being WSH for him to be massively relevant to this conversation.

[sjinhan]

6 hours ago, Rdskns2000 said:

I’d rather draft someone; someone we can have 10-15 years.

 

So spend that first round pick in a qb. If in 2-3 years it doesn’t work out ; do it again. If the guy is really bad and we have draft again next year, so be it.

 

We have to find that 10-15 year starter and that’s thru the draft.

 

Look at how many qbs the Bengals drafted post Boomer E. Until they got Carson Palmer. After it went sour with him; they got Andy Dalton. Now they have Joe Burrow.

 

We are going to keep swinging until we get it right.

 

Without a qb; we aren’t doing jack.

 

i agree with this… if the QB we draft is a bust then we are probably drafting higher anyways.  We sucked for 30 years already.  We need to just keep swinging for a QB in the draft.

[HigSkin]

FWIW, Mike Jones on with Sheehan now...

 

• He's been told Rodgers people think he goes to either Steelers, Colts or Raiders, most ready to compete teams
• Reference Brady, wouldn't be surprised if he ran it back one more year even though Brady's talking family/wife stuff
• Who could realistically available for WFT - Mariota, Carr, JimmyG or Trubisky
• Jones doesn't think they have enough to entice top tier guys
• He thinks Watson trade gets worked out as it gets closer to the draft.  Watson wants out of Houston even if Flores gets hired there 
• Expanded on why Carr might be available, it's a matter of whether Carr really wants to be there.  Rumbles before the Gruden thing that Carr might want out.
• His prediction is somebody like Mariota and they draft a guy

 

[KDawg]

16 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

You can say that for any player traded to any team, but that should not stop you from preparing for various scenarios.

 

As long as he's an option for somebody, even if you don't think it us, his trade has the potential to massively effect us. That warrants attention. Even if he does not want to come here, dude might just be our pathway to a Carr or Tua. You don't have to focus on his end destination being WSH for him to be massively relevant to this conversation.

That’s not the point the original poster was making. Arguing the semantics of this with me doesn’t make much sense when that wasn’t the original intent of which I was replying to.

Edited January 25, 2022 by KDawg

[FootballZombie]

30 minutes ago, KDawg said:

That’s not the point the original poster was making. Arguing the semantics of this with me doesn’t make much sense when that wasn’t the original intent of which I was replying to.

 

In regards to your response, I thought you were legit asking me question, so I provided an answer. If that was sarcasm... we need a font lol.

 

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

So again I ask, why do we care what happens with Watson when discussing our Football Team’s QB position?

 

[zCommander]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

There is zero chance that you watched any of those games last weekend and could reasonably think this.

 

Please don't tell me a bridge QB is going to take you deep into the playoffs. 😂

 

Since you missed my point last time. I will say it again. Taylor can be more than capable of being that bridge QB and no need to bring in Jimmy for that.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

55 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

FWIW, Mike Jones on with Sheehan now...

 

• He's been told Rodgers people think he goes to either Steelers, Colts or Raiders, most ready to compete teams
• Reference Brady, wouldn't be surprised if he ran it back one more year even though Brady's talking family/wife stuff
• Who could realistically available for WFT - Mariota, Carr, JimmyG or Trubisky
• Jones doesn't think they have enough to entice top tier guys
• He thinks Watson trade gets worked out as it gets closer to the draft.  Watson wants out of Houston even if Flores gets hired there 
• Expanded on why Carr might be available, it's a matter of whether Carr really wants to be there.  Rumbles before the Gruden thing that Carr might want out.
• His prediction is somebody like Mariota and they draft a guy

 

 

I listened to this during my run.  One nugget to add to this.  He said that Carr pushed off their contract negotiation last year when the Raiders wanted to talk.  Carr wanting out is an interesting dynamic that I didn't think was in play considering his rhetoric has been the opposite of that.

 

From what I've read Carr has a really good relationship with Del Rio. 

 

Jones was pessimiistic about most scenarios but didn't rule out Carr.  Jones likes Mariota as i do but I see Mariota as worse case as opposed to something that I am jazzed about.

 

Jones is coming on again on 980 at 9:30.

Edited January 25, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[NickyJ]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

I listened to this during my run.  One nugget to add to this.  He said that Carr pushed off their contract negotiation last year when the Raiders wanted to talk.  Carr wanting out is an interesting dynamic that I didn't think was in play considering his rhetoric has been the opposite of that.

 

From what I've read he has a really good relationship with Del Rio. 

And here we were with people wanting to fire Del Rio. Del Rio can still serve as trade bait!

[Skinsinparadise]

If Heinicke is more or less the same as Jimmy G as some purport here.  We should be jazzed because if there is supposedly a decent market for Jimmy G where he supposedly will land at least a 2nd, then why not Heinicke for a 2nd?  😀

 

I got some fear that while Daniel Jones or Hurts are IMO no big prizes but they still have some trade value in a QB trade.  It sounds like I am sleeping on Heinicke on that front according to some people's takes?  

Edited January 25, 2022 by Skinsinparadise