The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Llevron]

@The Consigliere Up until now I kinda felt like a jerk when you type all of that and I have nothing to respond with or I don’t care enough to spend time responding. Feels like a lack of courtesy or manners or something like that. 
 

Now I realize that just because it takes me and hour to come up with something somewhat resembling a human thought doesn’t it mean it takes you that long lol. For a second I thought you had those things on standby or something! 
 

Btw I aim not in it to tell you, you are wrong. If you are right and we draft your guy trust me I will buy you more than a few beers but I told you so’s are for smarter men than me. If I’m right it’s cause I listed to someone else. We are all victims as far as I am concerned so I would never lololcrycrycrylololol

Edited April 15 by Llevron

[Ghost of]

 

This is Kurt's breakdown of McCarthy's Purdue game. Here we have an issue I'd point out with scouting (not just Kurt but in general):

 

One of Kurt's critiques of McCarthy is most of his throws come out at "100 mph" (or some such phrasing.) Here's the thing---no one accused Chad Pennington of lasering throws. He couldn't at least not 20 yards down the field. He could get it there, he was a very good QB but he was not strong armed.  Brad Johnson after the "dead arm" was no longer throwing with strength. Brunell in 2004 had a bad hamstring apparently and was useless almost the entire season.  You don't get accused of rocketing balls if you can't throw fast and far. You can question if someone is good with touch and loft--that's perfectly legitimate. But his arm is very strong, it's why he was a 5 star QB recruit.  

 

Another problem I have (not with Kurt's analysis) is that he selects Purdue because he threw over 30 times.  But McCarthy's best throwing game in 2023 was probably MSU. He cut them up real good and showed off how good he is at throwing intermediate over LBs and other defenders and in front of safeties. After that game he was the Heisman front runner according to Vegas odds.

[Dah-Dee]

1 minute ago, Ghost of said:

You can question if someone is good with touch and loft--that's perfectly legitimate.

 

I think that's what Warner is getting at; he thinks, like multiple other analysts have noted, that McCarthy is a 'one-speed' thrower, that unlike the other top QB prospects he has trouble changing speeds to suit the play.

[mac8887]

54 minutes ago, Ghost of said:

 

It's sort of an insult too because JJ McCarthy can absolutely zing it and takes chances (regardless of his INTs or completion percentage.) I don't see Alex Smith tendencies from him at all, though I get why some might say that (sort of but not really.) 

 

Another thing people aren't seeing is that with all the times JJ sat in the 4th, his numbers look much better when taken per quarter or whatever.  And people are still holding his injury (the one he battled through and won a national championship on) to his ankle/lower leg against him. "Why did they just run the ball the entire second half?" 

Well, McCarthy was hurt and it was the safest way in a week where they were ambushed by their own conference that's bought and paid for (oddly not by Michigan, you'd think so but it's not true) to get through to the end of the game.  His Maryland game was tough for similar reasons. I started to see improvement by Ohio State and Purdue but he clearly was having issues throwing.  

 

And frankly, I'm getting irritated with the arm comments.  Now, maybe he generated a lot of torque with his body for his throw at the combine but you'd think more people would be trying to do that. He absolutely does need more reps and proper tutelage and patience, but he's 21 and I think has the most upside. 

 

He's not perfect but he is better at moving in the pocket and using it to pass the ball and on the run he keeps his eyes downfield usually. He also avoids big hits, he has a sixth sense about avoiding the big crushing blows for the most part.  

 

JJ is my choice to be here after Caleb Williams. I have him and Jayden really close and would be very happy with both. I actually don’t mind the Alex Smith Comp, I think he does the easy stuff very well like Alex smith did, he protects the ball like Alex smith did, he is a great scrambler like Alex smith was. I also think JJ is a better runner, has more quickness and has more wiggle than Alex smith ever did. I also believe that JJ has a better arm and is a better thrower into tight coverage than Alex smith, and JJ throws with anticipation at a high level and is accurate over the middle of the field. To me he is like if Kirk Cousins and Alex Smith had a baby and he got all of the good from both without any of the bad.

 

The only thing that concerns me a little is he hasn’t really shown the ability to change speed on his throws. I think this can be fixed. Maye is able to throw at varying speeds but his mechanics are all messed up while doing so, so I think it’s more of an issue with Maye because it’s something he needs to fix and then re-learn, where as JJ just has to learn. Jayden does a great job changing speed on his throws when needed and does so without really changing the way he throws.

 

Edited April 15 by mac8887

[Rufus T Firefly]

1 hour ago, Llevron said:

@The Consigliere I don't know man. It is awfully hard to argue in good faith that way. I don't honestly know if I feel like putting forth the effort to convince you otherwise if your starting place is 'nothing Maye does wrong is a big deal to me' and at the same time hold the position that 'All of Daniels flaws are huge and uncorrectable'.  I mean what's the point of even communicating at that point. 

I think he's given his reasons for believing Maye's big issues are more correctable than Maye's. You can disagree, but on the big ones it seems pretty self-evident why he'd be aiming that case. Obviously, there's not much that ca be done about Daniels' frame or arm strength, but Maye's mechanics and the accuracy issues that come with them are the types of things tha are fixed pretty often. 

 

I mean if I said a guy who's missing a limb is a bigger long-term issue than a guy who has a hangnail, I don't think that would be bad faith" argument. 

[Ghost of]

Just now, Dah-Dee said:

 

I think that's what Warner is getting at; he thinks, like multiple other analysts have noted, that McCarthy is a 'one-speed' thrower, that unlike the other top QB prospects he has trouble changing speeds to suit the play.

I understand that and I'm saying that's cool, he isn't polished and he showed touch in the Purdue deep throw at the beginning of his video. But he definitely overdoes it.  The issue is this typically results in lower completion percentages---but it hasn't for him and he improved over 2022.  

 

But my point about that was that he has an arm and it's a very good arm in terms of strength. There are people trying to turn him into some noodle armed game manager and it's beyond ridiculous.  It's simply not backed up by even a cursory glance at his tape. You can't be a one speed thrower who throws with obvious velocity and also Mr. Beach Ball "adequate arm." You can't be both those things unless there's an injury in there.

[The Consigliere]

48 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

You know you’re in for a long all day battle when you go toe to toe with my boy @The Consigliere.

 

By the time you press send on a post he's already written the first chapter of his dissertation style response.

 

That man is a wordsmith, and a typing fiend.

 

Here's a vid of him in action (Skip the beginning and jump  to about the 34 second mark)...

 

 

 

 

😄

 

I went by S-Bomb for decades on the CPND forums, and people used to joke "the "S" stands for "sentence" lol. 

9 minutes ago, Llevron said:

@The Consigliere Up until now I kinda felt like a jerk when you type all of that and I have nothing to respond with or I don’t care enough to spend time responding. Feels like a lack of courtesy or manners or something like that. 
 

Now I realize that just because it takes me and hour to come up with something somewhat resembling a human thought doesn’t it mean it takes you that long lol. For a second I thought you had those things on standby or something! 
 

Btw I aim not in it to tell you, you are wrong. If you are right and we draft your guy trust me I will buy you more than a few beers but I told you so’s are for smarter men than me. If I’m right it’s cause I listed to someone else. We are all victims as far as I am concerned so I would never lololcrycrycrylololol

As SIP loves to remind me, I was in love with Baker, Darnold and Rosen in '18 lol, and hated the McLaurin pick, I've cornered the market at times in being wrong. Thanfully, over the years I've been more right than wrong on enough stuff to win in dynasty, and argue back and forth in these forums w/some modicum of engendered respect, but you win nothing for being right, nor losing anything for being wrong, it's just debate and perspectives, and over enough time (and I've been in these forums since the mid-nineties) you are going to be right and wrong about mountains of stuff. I spent an entire offseason praying we'd draft Culpeper 25 years ago after all. I may come across as hubristic at times, but I have had my pride punctured a gazillion times over the past 28 years w/regards to my takes on these forums over the years, and it will happen a gazillion more times going forward. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

39 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

😄

 

I went by S-Bomb for decades on the CPND forums, and people used to joke "the "S" stands for "sentence" lol. 

As SIP loves to remind me, I was in love with Baker, Darnold and Rosen in '18 lol, and hated the McLaurin pick, I've cornered the market at times in being wrong. Thanfully, over the years I've been more right than wrong on enough stuff to win in dynasty, and argue back and forth in these forums w/some modicum of engendered respect, but you win nothing for being right, nor losing anything for being wrong, it's just debate and perspectives, and over enough time (and I've been in these forums since the mid-nineties) you are going to be right and wrong about mountains of stuff. I spent an entire offseason praying we'd draft Culpeper 25 years ago after all. I may come across as hubristic at times, but I have had my pride punctured a gazillion times over the past 28 years w/regards to my takes on these forums over the years, and it will happen a gazillion more times going forward. 

 

lol, I've had my share of right and wrong, I am on a good roll for going after QBs who i don't thnk can play centering on decision making or accuracy -- Rosen, Darnold, Trubisky, Haskins -- i wasn't much of a Daniel Jones guy but the results are mixed on that one.

 

I had no issue with you or anyone getting anything wrong.  We all do.  And heck I love for people to take stabs at who they like and why -- and when you do that you are bound to miss.  It's all cool.  So love reading takes including of course by you.  But what i recall about it was how authortative you were about the points -- not much uncertainty.  So that was hard to forget.  This time you come off a bit more toned down.

 

But yeah on this thread I can think of multiple people who come off absolutely sure of what to do here.  And I recall some of their past takes where they likewise came off absolutely sure and not all of those takes aged well.  And that's cool.  We all get em wrong.  I am just explaining why some making points with absolutely authority as if there is just one answer to this, don't move me.

 

But as I've said my amatuer take from watching a lot of both Daniels and Maye -- to my eyes neither one has the bust factor that struck me when watching Rosen, Darnold, Haskins, Trubisky, etc.  I feel really good about both of them.

 

I am firmly a Maye guy.  But am also firmly not anti-Daniels.  I'd be jazzed about either one but I'd be especially jazzed about Maye.  But who knows there is crap shoot component to this all of course.

[Conn]

I understand the release is quick and the mechanics are tight and the footwork is square and the stroke is repeatable…but I just don’t like the ball coming out of Daniels’ hand. Every throw looks like he’s trying to feather in a touch pass over the top without ideal velocity. I’m probably not explaining it well but it’s not just an “arm strength” thing. It doesn’t matter whether I watch cut-ups, highlights, analyst breakdowns…I have a hard time doing what I’m trying to do, which is fall in love with Daniels at least a fraction of the amount I have with Maye—because I want to be happy/satisfied/hopeful either way. And intellectually, I’ve mostly gotten there. I nod along on paper with why I should be excited about Daniels if he’s the pick (while still allowing for the flaws I’m worried about to keep me grounded on it). But I just can’t get away from the fact that I don’t experience joy watching Daniels throw the ball. I just don’t.  

Edited April 15 by Conn

[illone]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Heard the same.  Quinn and @illone and McCarthy are now in a meditation session, while listening to Bob Marley. 

 

If @illone is a true McCarthy disciple he should get the Marley reference.

 

actual footage of JJ and me on the way to Mortons. 
 

[mac8887]

Just now, Conn said:

I understand the release is quick and the mechanics are tight and the footwork is square and the stroke is repeatable…but I just don’t like the ball coming out of Daniels’ hand. It doesn’t matter whether I watch cut-ups, highlights, analyst breakdowns…I have a hard time doing what I’m trying to do, which is fall in love with Daniels at least a fraction of the amount I have with Maye—because I want to be happy/satisfied/hopeful either way. And intellectually, I’ve mostly gotten there. I nod along on paper with why I should be excited about Daniels if he’s the pick (while still allowing for the flaws I’m worried about to keep me grounded on it). But I just can’t get away with the fact that I don’t experience joy watching Daniels throw the ball. I don’t.  

That’ll change when you see him carving up Dallas.

[illone]

2 hours ago, Ghost of said:

He's not perfect but he is better at moving in the pocket and using it to pass the ball and on the run he keeps his eyes downfield usually. He also avoids big hits, he has a sixth sense about avoiding the big crushing blows for the most part.  

 

 

Something that stood out when i watched Michigan live, and then more-so when I went back and watched cut ups of his throws...

 

he rarely escapes backwards, and I can't find a single play where he generated his own pressure. Not saying it didn't happen, but my very scientific eye ball exam indicates it was a very rare thing indeed. 

 

Compare that to other players like Howell for example. How many sacks were because he escaped right into the jaws of a defender.  Maye did this a lot last season and why a lot of analysts question his footwork. He takes a ton of useless steps, many times resulting in "self generated pressure". I get the counter argument that he was the ONLY decent player on his entire team, but that argument fails when you watch the tape and can plainly see open areas of the field for him to step up and instead he bails or steps the opposite direction.

 

JJ on the other hand was always moving forward, attacking, keeping eyes down field, and only running when necessary, but NEVER escaped into pressure, or ran backwards. It was that subtle side step, or quick jab step to open up a throwing lane. The knock being that he wasn't asked to do this much, obviously. I contend that was just the system he was in, not a knock on the player. Moreover, you could make the argument that he is even MORE elite because his arm was cold and not in rhythm when he was asked to convert a 3rd and 7 with his arm after handing it off 10x in a row.

 

And yes, to your point about avoiding big hits, it does seem like a sixth sense with him. Jayden is the opposite, like a magnet for train wrecks. 

[CapsSkins]

JP Finlay has a conspiracy theory that the Commies have put old WFT Tress Way jerseys on clearance because they want to free up #5 for Daniels...

 

 

[Rufus T Firefly]

6 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

JP Finlay has a conspiracy theory that the Commies have put old WFT Tress Way jerseys on clearance because they want to free up #5 for Daniels...

I liked this response:

 

 

Edited April 15 by Rufus T Firefly

[BMagic]

I'd like to know how they define BTT%. He's already doing special things with shoddy mechanics. They really need to assess what parts of his game he's been tweaking during his visit to Ashburn.

 

 

Maye's wins above replacement is something they should consider as well. It's about not only having a solid QB on a rookie deal, but doing the best they can to ensure they guy they draft is worth his second contact when he will have to shoulder more of the load on his shoulders. UNC likely wins 2-3 games all season with a lesser talent at QB.

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[Dah-Dee]

15 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

JP Finlay has a conspiracy theory that the Commies have put old WFT Tress Way jerseys on clearance because they want to free up #5 for Daniels...

 

Well if that's how it works, then what the hell does THIS mean GAH GAH GAH???!!!

 

 

Women's Nike Terry McLaurin Burgundy Washington Football Team Alternate Game Jersey

In Stock - This item will ship within 2 business days.

Reduced: $33.99

 

Or this??

 

 

Men's Nike Jamin Davis Burgundy Washington Football Team 2021 NFL Draft First Round Pick Game Jersey

In Stock - This item will ship within 1 business day.

Reduced: $81.99

Edited April 15 by Dah-Dee

[HTTRDynasty]

If this is true - I.e., Daniels is getting his own days while Maye is sharing with JJ and Penix - then this is a wrap.

 

 

[CapsSkins]

2 minutes ago, Dah-Dee said:

Well if that's how it works, then what the hell does THIS mean GAH GAH GAH???!!!

 

 

Women's Nike Terry McLaurin Burgundy Washington Football Team Alternate Game Jersey

In Stock - This item will ship within 2 business days.

Reduced: $33.99

 

Or this??

 

 

Men's Nike Jamin Davis Burgundy Washington Football Team 2021 NFL Draft First Round Pick Game Jersey

In Stock - This item will ship within 1 business day.

Reduced: $81.99

 

Terry getting traded for Tee Higgins and Jamin getting cut lol

[Fred Jones]

JJ is a game manager at best.  I don't see what some people see.  Watching him last Fall just didn't lead me to anything else.  Have to wait until he starts seeing game time this Fall and moving forward to verify.   Some team will pick him to high because he is a QB.

 

It is Daniels or Maye.  I just really really hope the FO selects the best one.

[CapsSkins]

1 minute ago, HTTRDynasty said:

If this is true - I.e., Daniels is getting his own days while Maye is sharing with JJ and Penix - then this is a wrap.

 

 

 

Counterpoint... maybe they're strongly leaning Maye and sneaking him in with the others as a smokescreen. Who knows?!

[Dah-Dee]

8 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

 

 

Edited April 15 by Dah-Dee

[Fred Jones]

https://www.si.com/nfl/patriots/new-england-michael-penix-jr-dinner-host-visit-washington-quarterback

 

Penix is in New England tonight and tomorrow.  If that matters.

 

[DogofWar1]

My recollection was that Daniels was Mon-Tues

Maye was Tues-Wed

Then JJ entered the fold on some day, and I assumed it was Wednesday, but I don't think we've gotten confirmation on that.

So sounds like Daniels and Maye get their own "nights," but Daniels is the only one who gets his own "day" per se.