The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Rufus T Firefly]

1 hour ago, The Consigliere said:

His career wouldn't be over, and to be fair, if I were an owner, I'm not blaming a GM for trusting his process when it appears sound and missing, that is the way of QB's in this league, what I would blame him for, or her for, would be ignoring a ---- ton of warning signs, going against the grain, and being wrong, that can and should get guys canned. Whether its trading down for a JJ or Penix, or in this case, for me, taking Daniels. Or say the Bears taking Daniels or Maye over Williams etc.

 

When you miss while being an idiot, like Mayock's Raiders, that's on you, and you should get ---- canned, when you miss while doing what other smart GM's would've done? That's understandable and the reality of a business where a strong majority of prospects fail to hit/move the needle on day 1/day 2 of the draft. 

 

The only fear I have with my approach here, is that it could engender a fear of going against the grain, against draft aggregators etc, and getting a Tommy Shepard draft board, where you literally are rumored to have simply habitually taken the highest guy available on aggregator charts and therefore got a bunch of floor crap for a team that sucks in general. But that's where you go over process and best practices, you hire the best NFL version of area scouts and the best cutting edge analytics people so you can map out how to do this things, so when you take big swings on upside that are against the grain, they at least make some sense as a wild bet, rather than just the Raiders being idiots and taking Henry Ruggs (vehicular homicide or not) over obvious WR1 Lamb, or Cleleand Ferrell (the guy we just signed, spelling?) like 20 picks before he was expected to go. I can go w/people willing to risk going out on a limb as long as its based on something rationale, and I'd like to think the FO is on top of this. Seems like it, and its not fair for me to say it, with my limited information, but if they do go Daniels, they sure as hell better hit/better have much better reasons for doing it, and for avoiding Maye in the data than I've seen posted in articles and elsewhere because I haven't seen any good arguments that were convincing to me yet (and I'd also understand why people might think I'm just plugging my ears saying "nananana"). 

My guess at this point is that they take Daniels because this offseason seems more geared towards winning early, and Daniels is the short-term answer if your main concern is winning now. 

 

If that's right, it would be a kind of thinking that is highly disappointing. If that is Peters and it works out the way I would guess it will, I agree it's a firing offense. But it could be coming from above too.  

[Warhead36]

2 hours ago, WashingtonRedWolves said:

Saracen - Heineke

Street - Cousins

Voodoo Tatum - RG3?

I was kinda in jest. Saracen relatively was actually much better than Heinicke. He was legit slingin dimes by the end of that first season. And he even played some WR. One of the more unrealisitc points was how he got NO college attention. I'm not saying he shoulda been recruited by Alabama or anything, but a Texas HS QB who wins one championship and gets to another should have at least garnered some D3 attention or something.

[mistertim]

7 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

My guess at this point is that they take Daniels because this offseason seems more geared towards winning early, and Daniels is the short-term answer if your main concern is winning now. 

 

If that's right, it would be a kind of thinking that is highly disappointing. If that is Peters and it works out the way I would guess it will, I agree it's a firing offense. But it could be coming from above too.  

 

I dunno. In interviews and his pressers Harris seemed to really be all about the long term thinking vs. short term gains. (Assuming it's Harris you're talking about re: "coming from above")

 

I feel like the main people who would have the shorter term "win now" mentality would be some of the coaches because they're the ones who's jobs are closest to being on the line based upon initial results vs. a GM.

[Dah-Dee]

6 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I dunno. In interviews and his pressers Harris seemed to really be all about the long term thinking vs. short term gains. (Assuming it's Harris you're talking about re: "coming from above")

 

I also feel like we should attach some related significance to the fact that the first hire Harris made was analytics expert Eugene Shen.  Accordingly, I'd be shocked if all those PFF-type "stable metrics" are not a big part of the discussions on who to pick at #2. 

 

Edited April 10 by Dah-Dee

[illone]

 

[Rufus T Firefly]

13 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I dunno. In interviews and his pressers Harris seemed to really be all about the long term thinking vs. short term gains. (Assuming it's Harris you're talking about re: "coming from above")

 

I feel like the main people who would have the shorter term "win now" mentality would be some of the coaches because they're the ones who's jobs are closest to being on the line based upon initial results vs. a GM.

Yes, I mean owners by "from above" 

 

I am not all that interested in what they say in interviews. Again, the moves they are making seem a lot more geared towards trying to win now. So that's what I am referring to. 

[Warhead36]

8 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Yes, I mean owners by "from above" 

 

I am not all that interested in what they say in interviews. Again, the moves they are making seem a lot more geared towards trying to win now. So that's what I am referring to. 

I don't think the FA moves really signify win now. We're just filling roster spots. We had $90 mil to spend and like 30 something roster spots. You can't just fill all those spots with minimum salary players, there should be SOME attempt to at least be competent and professional. But no one we signed really has massive long term contract implications and most can be gotten out of in like 2 years.

 

But I do agree with you that drafting Daniels is a win now move. He's more NFL ready and his age + style of play means he pretty much has to play right away.

 

Sheehan on 980 this morning brought up a point that I thought was both interesting and alarming. He said something about how Dan Quinn could end up pounding the table for Daniels, since mobile athletic QBs are always harder for defensive coaches to gameplan against, and that could end up swaying a first time GM like Peters. I really hope that's not the case, but it wouldn't shock me. 

[dunfer]

47 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

My guess at this point is that they take Daniels because this offseason seems more geared towards winning early, and Daniels is the short-term answer if your main concern is winning now. 

 

If that's right, it would be a kind of thinking that is highly disappointing. If that is Peters and it works out the way I would guess it will, I agree it's a firing offense. But it could be coming from above too.  

keeping howell or getting someone like flacco would support that winning early narrative better i think. Theyre replacing the roster with a huge amount of cap space. Guess mariotta fits Kliff bettter? Im betting they let whichever guy the get sit...seems to work over and over in GB

Edited April 10 by dunfer

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I don’t see how the moves made thus far signify any type of “win now” strategy.  In fact, I’d be gravely concerned if this was their version of a splashy win now offseason.  We still have air at left tackle to protect whoever we draft.  You have 53 roster spots to fill and there’s a healthy dose of veteran leadership sprinkled in which is important in setting the tone for a first year head coach. 

 

I also don’t believe that Peters or Quinn is concerned with winning now more than selecting the best long term QB.  Both of these guys have rope here, there is zero need to gamble.  If they select Daniels it’s because they believe he’s flat out better than Maye.

Edited April 10 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[WashingtonRedWolves]

43 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I was kinda in jest. Saracen relatively was actually much better than Heinicke. He was legit slingin dimes by the end of that first season. And he even played some WR. One of the more unrealisitc points was how he got NO college attention. I'm not saying he shoulda been recruited by Alabama or anything, but a Texas HS QB who wins one championship and gets to another should have at least garnered some D3 attention or something.

Agreed. Nothing could beat that first season, started to go downhill a bit after that especially when smash and riggins were no longer in the picture. Loved the movie too

[Conn]

I don’t think our offseason has signified a win now mindset or mandate. The short term vets we signed are to help us raise the competitive floor of the roster, sure, but we’ll be replacing them all again within a year or two. It’s having culture building vets to set an example for the young guys in the locker room—both existing and the incoming rookies + UDFA’s we’ll bring in. But we’re still extremely flexible cap-wise after this season and have committed essentially none of the money to anyone but Luvu and Biadasz

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Well, here you guys go. You be the judge:

 

No specifics.  That's what I figured would happen.  I want to know who offered him all that NIL money to transfer.

[ANONYMOUS SOURCE.]

8 minutes ago, Conn said:

I don’t think our offseason has signified a win now mindset or mandate. The short term vets we signed are to help us raise the competitive floor of the roster, sure, but we’ll be replacing them all again within a year or two. It’s having culture building vets to set an example for the young guys in the locker room—both existing and the incoming rookies + UDFA’s we’ll bring in. But we’re still extremely flexible cap-wise after this season and have committed essentially none of the money to anyone but Luvu and Biadasz

Agree totally,  Peters just raised the bar to be able to stick here. It was apparently a pretty low bar previously lol

[clskinsfan]

9 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah it read like a college undergrad writing a term paper. Just way too robotic even if it had some interesting tidbits. 

 

It ultimately doesn't really change anything regarding how anyone will view him one way or another.

I think it was written by an AI. Just the way it came off. If does help people who dont watch film understand just how bad the team was around him though. His drop rate alone is unbelievably bad.

[illone]

No way does this look or feel like a "win now" mentality by this staff.

 

This is what it looks like when ownership, front office, and coaching are in lock step harmony on building something meaningful for more than one season.

 

I expect no different when it comes to this years draft, QB, etc.

[RWJ]

2 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

You’ve quoted me from 2021?

Oh my goodness.  Please forgive!  LOL  

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

17 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

I want to know who offered him all that NIL money to transfer.

LSU

[clskinsfan]

8 hours ago, Conn said:

I don’t think our offseason has signified a win now mindset or mandate. The short term vets we signed are to help us raise the competitive floor of the roster, sure, but we’ll be replacing them all again within a year or two. It’s having culture building vets to set an example for the young guys in the locker room—both existing and the incoming rookies + UDFA’s we’ll bring in. But we’re still extremely flexible cap-wise after this season and have committed essentially none of the money to anyone but Luvu and Biadasz

Agree. Win now would have been signing 4 or 5 top splash free agents. They signed leaders to help build a culture here. If we win now so be it. But that was not the plan with these offseason moves imo.  

[mistertim]

50 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

But I do agree with you that drafting Daniels is a win now move. He's more NFL ready and his age + style of play means he pretty much has to play right away.

 

I can see this line of thinking but I think someone who drafts Daniels with this belief could be headed for potential disappointment. Yes, his footwork and mechanics are more refined than Maye. Yes he's certainly had more starts. But I also think there are red flags that could hamper him from being immediately successful.

 

He was behind a really good OL at LSU; that likely won't be the case on his new team. He had two stud WRs at LSU who consistently got separation an were open; that's also not likely to be the case in the NFL. Those things matter considering his worrisome pressure to sack ratio and how rarely he throws when pressured vs pulling his eyes down and running. The pulling his eyes down and running so quickly IMO is going to take some time to adjust, which means he'll probably be running a lot as a rookie, and given his slight frame, that feels like a possible injury waiting to happen.

 

His lack of experience with lots of tight window 2nd level throws between the numbers as well as anticipation throws is also going to be a hindrance because he's not going to have the luxury of big windows or waiting until guys get open to throw the ball in the NFL.

 

Now, I could absolutely be wrong and maybe he'll come into the league and immediately adjust. But I feel like a lot of people who are watching and scouting him are hanging on the mechanics/footwork/experience stuff when it comes to "he's ready to play from day 1" and ignoring all of the issues that could point in the other direction. 

Edited April 10 by mistertim

[Warhead36]

7 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I can see this line of thinking but I think someone who drafts Daniels with this belief could be headed for potential disappointment. Yes, his footwork and mechanics are more refined than Maye. Yes he's certainly had more starts. But I also think there are red flags that could hamper him from being immediately successful.

 

He was behind a really good OL at LSU; that likely won't be the case on his new team. He had two stud WRs at LSU who consistently got separation an were open; that's also not likely to be the case in the NFL. Those things matter considering his worrisome pressure to sack ratio and how rarely he throws when pressured vs pulling his eyes down and running. The pulling his eyes down and running so quickly IMO is going to take some time to adjust, which means he'll probably be running a lot as a rookie, and given his slight frame, that feels like a possible injury waiting to happen.

 

His lack of experience with lots of tight window 2nd level throws between the numbers as well as anticipation throws is also going to be a hindrance because he's not going to have the luxury of big windows or waiting until guys get open to throw the ball in the NFL.

 

Now, I could absolutely be wrong and maybe he'll come into the league and immediately adjust. But I feel like a lot of people who are watching and scouting him are hanging on the mechanics/footwork/experience stuff when it comes to "he's ready to play from day 1" and ignoring all of the issues that could point in the other direction. 

Issues or not, you pretty much have to play him right away. He's going to be 24 his rookie year. His game relies on mobility and athleticism which tends to fade around the mid 20s. You have to maximize those first 5 years. There is a very good chance he'll hit a big time decline around age 29-30, and that isn't even factoring in his higher than likely chance of getting injured because of his reckless running style coupled with railthin frame.

 

Whether he's actually capable of playing day 1 or not is another issue entirely. I think you can do some 2012 RG3 like stuff with him early on while he fixes his issues.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

38 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

I want to know who offered him all that NIL money to transfer.

Who I would actually guess…

 

[mistertim]

5 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Issues or not, you pretty much have to play him right away. He's going to be 24 his rookie year. His game relies on mobility and athleticism which tends to fade around the mid 20s. You have to maximize those first 5 years. There is a very good chance he'll hit a big time decline around age 29-30, and that isn't even factoring in his higher than likely chance of getting injured because of his reckless running style coupled with railthin frame.

 

Whether he's actually capable of playing day 1 or not is another issue entirely. I think you can do some 2012 RG3 like stuff with him early on while he fixes his issues.

 

Yeah I don't really disagree that a team that drafts him will almost have to start him immediately. That's a separate discussion. I just think it might not work out the way some people have convinced themselves it will. There are issues there that I think may be very magnified in the NFL and end up with him getting hurt, and regardless of where he goes, I hate seeing guys get injured.

Edited April 10 by mistertim

[Dah-Dee]

2 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Who I would actually guess…

 

 

https://www.tarheelblog.com/2022/12/21/23520298/unc-football-north-carolina-tar-heels-drake-maye-transfer-offers-nil-mack-brown

 

When Drake Maye announced that he was returning to Carolina, fans rejoiced knowing that Mack Brown wouldn’t have to go into next season with a new quarterback. There was always a suspicion that schools would try to talk him into transferring, but nobody really knew the extent to which teams would go in order to try and pull him away from Brown. Thanks to Brown himself, however, we now know that schools went to wild extremes to try and win over Maye, though the schools in question are still a mystery.

 

Mack Brown told the media during a press conference that a couple of schools recruited Maye heavily, and while he wouldn’t say who, he made it a point to say that “You know who they are.” He was suggesting that the two teams in question were teams that were going after all of the elite prospects, which likely points to Alabama and Clemson if I had to personally guess. It makes even more sense that it would be one of those two schools after Pitt head coach Pat Narduzzi went into specifics about just how much NIL money Maye was offered.

 

 

[illone]

I bet the other school was A&M, that oil money though...

[RWJ]

3 minutes ago, Dah-Dee said:

 

https://www.tarheelblog.com/2022/12/21/23520298/unc-football-north-carolina-tar-heels-drake-maye-transfer-offers-nil-mack-brown

 

When Drake Maye announced that he was returning to Carolina, fans rejoiced knowing that Mack Brown wouldn’t have to go into next season with a new quarterback. There was always a suspicion that schools would try to talk him into transferring, but nobody really knew the extent to which teams would go in order to try and pull him away from Brown. Thanks to Brown himself, however, we now know that schools went to wild extremes to try and win over Maye, though the schools in question are still a mystery.

 

Mack Brown told the media during a press conference that a couple of schools recruited Maye heavily, and while he wouldn’t say who, he made it a point to say that “You know who they are.” He was suggesting that the two teams in question were teams that were going after all of the elite prospects, which likely points to Alabama and Clemson if I had to personally guess. It makes even more sense that it would be one of those two schools after Pitt head coach Pat Narduzzi went into specifics about just how much NIL money Maye was offered.

 

 

We know that Maye didn't.  Alabama was one school as we know.  NIL can be a demon seed unfortunately.  Sad.