The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[HTTRDynasty]

I sometimes find myself wondering how much of an influence John Elway had on Peters’ thinking when it comes to the QB position. 
 

Peters worked his way up from a scout on the Broncos in 2009 (after getting his start with the Pats in 2003) to Director of College Scouting with the same team in 2016. Elway was named GM of the Broncos in 2011, so they worked together for ~5 years or so.  
 

Looking at the profiles below, it’s clear Elays had a type: Big, athletic guys with strong arms. And not necessarily run-first athletes, but guys who will use their feet to extend plays and look to pass when scrambling. Now, these weren’t exactly the most successful draft picks but the QB position is a crap shoot - what’s most important here is the type of QB Elway coveted and how much that influenced Peters’ view on QBs. 
 

Here are the QBs Elway drafted on Days 1 & 2 during his tenure as GM:

• 2012: Brock Osweiller in Round 2; 6’7”, 242 pounds 
  • “Osweiler is an intriguing early-entry prospect out of Arizona State. He started for Dennis Erickson's Sun Devils for just two years before opting to leave a year of eligibility on the table with the mass exodus of both the ASU coaching staff and a solid group of senior starters. A good athlete for the position, Osweiler was originally signed on to play basketball at Gonzaga before opting to play football at ASU. He has the arm strength to be a first-day pick but hasn't shown the consistency that is characteristic of guys who deserve first-round money.“
• 2016: Paxton Lynch in Round 1; 6’7”, 244 pounds
  • “While the hype around "dual threat" quarterbacks has subsided, Lynch possesses the size and athleticism to make NFL teams take a second look. Unlike other size/speed quarterbacks like Vince Young and Colin Kaepernick, Lynch prefers to extend passing plays with his feet rather than bolting from the pocket, but he is still likely to make plenty of plays with his feet over the long haul. Lynch shows the ability to read defenses and make smart decisions, but not yet at an NFL starting level. While he has the physical tools to start right away, a team who is willing to allow him to sit and study his craft for a year could reap maximum rewards in the future.”
• 2019: Drew Lock in Round 2; 6’4”, 228
  • Full-field reader offering prototypical size and arm talent, but one that has a concerning lack of accuracy and consistency against top opponents. Inside of each game, Lock makes reads and throws that are worthy of an early pick. There will also be plays in the same game that highlight his random inaccuracy and issues defeating pocket pressure. He has as much pure talent as any quarterback from the 2018 draft, but he won't reach that lofty potential unless he improves his accuracy and learns to play with better in-game presence. 
     

 

Then, when Peters got a chance to help Lynch draft a Day 1 QB in SF, he apparently stood on the table for Trey Lance (6’4”, 224 pounds), who was a big, athletic QB prospect with good arm talent. 
 

I didn’t post this to prove Peters will draft Maye, but when you look at the history of Day 1/2 QBs the GMs he’s worked for have drafted, you get the sense they all favored big, high upside, athletic QBs with live arms. It would be interesting if Peters decided to go in a different direction in his first year as GM. 

 

Edited March 24 by HTTRDynasty

[rhyno]

I thought that I had read that Peter's had little to do with drafting trey? That it was lynch and Kyle that were table dancing. May be remembering that wrong but I thought that was the case. 

[Warhead36]

2 minutes ago, rhyno said:

I thought that I had read that Peter's had little to do with drafting trey? That it was lynch and Kyle that were table dancing. May be remembering that wrong but I thought that was the case. 

I think Peters rated him highly but Lynch/Shanahavwas the one who pulled the trigger.

 

its possible he coulda liked him but not for three 1sts worth

[DWinzit]

1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said:

I sometimes find myself wondering how much of an influence John Elway had on Peters’ thinking when it comes to the QB position. 
 

Peters worked his way up from a scout on the Broncos in 2009 (after getting his start with the Pats in 2003) to Director of College Scouting with the same team in 2016. Elway was named GM of the Broncos in 2011, so they worked together for ~5 years or so.  
 

Looking at the profiles below, it’s clear Elays had a type: Big, athletic guys with strong arms. And not necessarily run-first athletes, but guys who will use their feet to extend plays and look to pass when scrambling. Now, these weren’t exactly the most successful draft picks but the QB position is a crap shoot - what’s most important here is the type of QB Elway coveted and how much that influenced Peters’ view on QBs. 
 

Here are the QBs Elway drafted on Days 1 & 2 during his tenure as GM:

• 2012: Brock Osweiller in Round 2; 6’7”, 242 pounds 
  • “Osweiler is an intriguing early-entry prospect out of Arizona State. He started for Dennis Erickson's Sun Devils for just two years before opting to leave a year of eligibility on the table with the mass exodus of both the ASU coaching staff and a solid group of senior starters. A good athlete for the position, Osweiler was originally signed on to play basketball at Gonzaga before opting to play football at ASU. He has the arm strength to be a first-day pick but hasn't shown the consistency that is characteristic of guys who deserve first-round money.“
• 2016: Paxton Lynch in Round 1; 6’7”, 244 pounds
  • “While the hype around "dual threat" quarterbacks has subsided, Lynch possesses the size and athleticism to make NFL teams take a second look. Unlike other size/speed quarterbacks like Vince Young and Colin Kaepernick, Lynch prefers to extend passing plays with his feet rather than bolting from the pocket, but he is still likely to make plenty of plays with his feet over the long haul. Lynch shows the ability to read defenses and make smart decisions, but not yet at an NFL starting level. While he has the physical tools to start right away, a team who is willing to allow him to sit and study his craft for a year could reap maximum rewards in the future.”
• 2019: Drew Lock in Round 2; 6’4”, 228
  • Full-field reader offering prototypical size and arm talent, but one that has a concerning lack of accuracy and consistency against top opponents. Inside of each game, Lock makes reads and throws that are worthy of an early pick. There will also be plays in the same game that highlight his random inaccuracy and issues defeating pocket pressure. He has as much pure talent as any quarterback from the 2018 draft, but he won't reach that lofty potential unless he improves his accuracy and learns to play with better in-game presence. 
     

 

Then, when Peters got a chance to help Lynch draft a Day 1 QB in SF, he apparently stood on the table for Trey Lance (6’4”, 224 pounds), who was a big, athletic QB prospect with good arm talent. 
 

I didn’t post this to prove Peters will draft Maye, but when you look at the history of Day 1/2 QBs the GMs he’s worked for have drafted, you get the sense they all favored big, high upside, athletic QBs with live arms. It would be interesting if Peters decided to go in a different direction in his first year as GM. 

 

Well thought out post and not something I'd considered.

 

The prototypical QB though fits the taller, bigger, good armed and at least somewhat mobile QB. It would be easy to draw similarities to Maye and even our new "backup" Mariota.

 

May spark a lot of new discussions on the all too familiar topics with a twist in the to look at our prospective QB of the future

[mac8887]

The more I think about it, the more I’m willing to see Mariota get the start at the beginning of the year, especially if the picks Maye or McCarthy, they are both really young.

 

On top of that, with the recent turnarounds that Baker and Geno had, maybe Mariota can do something similar, highly unlikely I admit, but he was drafted in the 1st round, so he does have the pedigree.

 

What I really would hate to see is our young qb forced into competition before he is ready, with an o line that is unable to protect him. We have seen time and time again what happens to young QBs that take a lot of sacks. We even have a term for it, “Ramseyed”.

 

Someone like Drake that has all the potential in the world, you want to harness that potential. Right now his feet lead him into the pressure quite often. That, in combination with a bad o line could be detrimental to him reaching his potential. I would hope they make sure to get one of those issues fixed before they throw him into the fire.

[Chump Bailey]

31 minutes ago, rhyno said:

I thought that I had read that Peter's had little to do with drafting trey? That it was lynch and Kyle that were table dancing. May be remembering that wrong but I thought that was the case. 

 

Good gives me some more confidence in him though I know nailing this position is not exactly a cake walk. 

[mistertim]

4 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

The more I think about it, the more I’m willing to see Mariota get the start at the beginning of the year, especially if the picks Maye or McCarthy, they are both really young.

 

On top of that, with the recent turnarounds that Baker and Geno had, maybe Mariota can do something similar, highly unlikely I admit, but he was drafted in the 1st round, so he does have the pedigree.

 

What I really would hate to see is our young qb forced into competition before he is ready, with an o line that is unable to protect him. We have seen time and time again what happens to young QBs that take a lot of sacks. We even have a term for it, “Ramseyed”.

 

Someone like Drake that has all the potential in the world, you want to harness that potential. Right now his feet lead him into the pressure quite often. That, in combination with a bad o line could be detrimental to him reaching his potential. I would hope they make sure to get one of those issues fixed before they throw him into the fire.

 

If your concern is not having a good enough OL to protect a young QB, you better hope that if the pick is Daniels or McCarthy (we aren't picking McCarthy at 2) that they sit for a year while we shore up the OL, because they both had excellent OLs in college and aren't going to be used to the pressure most likely, Maye had a **** OL in college so he's kinda used to running for his life within a couple seconds of the snap.

 

An lol. Dude, Mariota is a scrub. 100% pure backup material. The only reason he's here is to be a mentor to the guy we draft.

Edited March 24 by mistertim

[mac8887]

Just now, mistertim said:

 

If your concern is not having a good enough OL to protect a young QB, you better hope that if the pick is Daniels or McCarthy (we aren't picking McCarthy at 2) that they sit for a year while we shore up the OL, because they both had excellent OLs in college and aren't going to be used to the pressure most likely,

 

An lol. Dude, Mariota is a scrub. 100% pure backup material. The only reason he's here is to be a mentor to the guy we draft.

Michigan had a great o line, LSU, not so much, especially this last season. I said I’d want them to sit McCarthy as well. Though not for the same reasons as Maye, McCarthy needs to put on a little size, Maye needs to stop drifting into pressure. Both are young and can afford to sit.

 

Daniels on the other hand, has great mechanics, and is fast at getting through his progressions. The other 2 will probably catch up, but it’ll take a year or 2, Daniels has played a lot more football, he is more ready than the other 2.

[mistertim]

10 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

Michigan had a great o line, LSU, not so much, especially this last season. I said I’d want them to sit McCarthy as well. Though not for the same reasons as Maye, McCarthy needs to put on a little size, Maye needs to stop drifting into pressure. Both are young and can afford to sit.

 

Daniels on the other hand, has great mechanics, and is fast at getting through his progressions. The other 2 will probably catch up, but it’ll take a year or 2, Daniels has played a lot more football, he is more ready than the other 2.

 

Daniels had a very good OL at LSU. Not AS good as Michigan but quite good. I remember plenty of times watching his cutups where he's just sitting back there for like 6 seconds.

 

And McCarthy weighed in at 219lbs. 

 

And sure, Daniels has nice mechanics, but when he's pressured he lowers his eyes and looks to run more than almost any other college QB in the last 5 years. And in the NFL that could quite possibly spell disaster. 

 

So no, Daniels is not more ready than the other two unless you're fine with him tucking and running at the first sign of pressure and likely getting pancaked and eventually injured. Especially when you also consider how little his tape shows NFL type 2nd level tight window and anticipation throws. You talking about his mechanics is irrelevant to the actual problems with his game.

 

This whole "Daniels is ready day one" thing is just utterly weird and literally ignores all of the problems in his game.

Edited March 24 by mistertim

[CommanderInTheRye]

8 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Not to be a smartass, but that's 3.   

 

What's the 4th? Or did you mean 3?

 

 

I would actually love it if SIP came back and said something like...

 

"The "fourth thing" must remain a secret, to the masses. It was told to me by a Tibetan monk after a two year pilgrimage in the Himalayas. I am honor bound to share it, only with whoever we draft this year-- "the great chosen one"-- and even then, it must be told to him alone, and face to face, in whispered, reverential tones, with my hands covering his ear while I quietly reveal both his secret power and sacred destiny, to "the great chosen one". 😃

 

Edited March 24 by CommanderInTheRye

[FootballZombie]

24 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

What I really would hate to see is our young qb forced into competition before he is ready, with an o line that is unable to protect him. We have seen time and time again what happens to young QBs that take a lot of sacks. We even have a term for it, “Ramseyed”.

 

Maybe you'll feel better about it after some continued moves on the Oline.

 

We are certainly gonna draft some dudes, and I would not be shocked if we don't dig around guys who are cut closer to the season as well.

[HTTRDynasty]

40 minutes ago, rhyno said:

I thought that I had read that Peter's had little to do with drafting trey? That it was lynch and Kyle that were table dancing. May be remembering that wrong but I thought that was the case. 

Not sure, just basing it off what I’ve heard/read. For example:

 

 

But on the other hand:

 

[cakmoney61]

First, I wanted Drake Maye really bad.  Then I wanted Jayden Daniels really bad.  Now I don't know which QB I want.  I'm starting to wonder if either will be successful in the NFL, because the focus seems to be on what they can't do.  Not just here, but by analysts and talking heads.  There seems to be so much not to like about both QBs.  At this point, I will be happy with whoever Washington selects.  I just hope they make the right decision...that the guy they choose will be a franchise QB.

[mac8887]

12 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Maybe you'll feel better about it after some continued moves on the Oline.

 

We are certainly gonna draft some dudes, and I would not be shocked if we don't dig around guys who are cut closer to the season as well.

I’d feel a lot better if we drafted a tackle or 2, hopefully we sign 1 as well.

[Rex Tomb]

3 minutes ago, cakmoney61 said:

First, I wanted Drake Maye really bad.  Then I wanted Jayden Daniels really bad.  Now I don't know which QB I want.  I'm starting to wonder if either will be successful in the NFL, because the focus seems to be on what they can't do.  Not just here, but by analysts and talking heads.  There seems to be so much not to like about both QBs.  At this point, I will be happy with whoever Washington selects.  I just hope they make the right decision...that the guy they choose will be a franchise QB.

This is where I am, as well.  Not feeling too confident about any of the guys that are coming out this year.  Just have to hope that our coaching staff can get the most out of him and mold the offense around what he CAN do well.  For that reason, I am leaning Maye.  I think the footwork thing can be sorted out, and JD’s propensity to pull the ball and run without looking downfield is something that I am unsure it can be coached out of him. 

[mistertim]

11 minutes ago, cakmoney61 said:

First, I wanted Drake Maye really bad.  Then I wanted Jayden Daniels really bad.  Now I don't know which QB I want.  I'm starting to wonder if either will be successful in the NFL, because the focus seems to be on what they can't do.  Not just here, but by analysts and talking heads.  There seems to be so much not to like about both QBs.  At this point, I will be happy with whoever Washington selects.  I just hope they make the right decision...that the guy they choose will be a franchise QB.

 

Welcome to NFL draft season. This happens every year with the vast majority of top prospects not named Andrew Luck.

 

Right now Maye, Daniels, and even Williams are all getting dinged (Williams more so for potential character/maturity/helicopter dad issues, though he does have some actual holes in his game). McCarthy is on a bit of a honeymoon because he's the current fast riser draftnick darling (even though we have no actual evidence that NFL team scouts agree).

 

If you go back through the years you'll see, as the draft approached, people harping on the negatives of Herbert, the negatives, of Allen, the negatives of Mahomes, the negatives of Stroud, the list goes on and on.

Edited March 24 by mistertim

[redskinss]

Well I'm convinced now.

Bought a new car yesterday, the salesman was a giants fan and he thinks we should take Jayden daniels.

Anybody else need more proof or should I go back and see if he can talk me into the extended warranty?

[CommanderInTheRye]

18 minutes ago, cakmoney61 said:

First, I wanted Drake Maye really bad.  Then I wanted Jayden Daniels really bad.  Now I don't know which QB I want.  I'm starting to wonder if either will be successful in the NFL, because the focus seems to be on what they can't do.  Not just here, but by analysts and talking heads.  There seems to be so much not to like about both QBs.  At this point, I will be happy with whoever Washington selects.  I just hope they make the right decision...that the guy they choose will be a franchise QB.

 

 

You have entered the pre-draft stage known as paralysis by over analysis.

 

At some point so much information is available on all of the prospects with the negative especially being blown up, overemphasized and repeated ad nauseum  by talking heads on tv, posters on forums and other social media echo chambers that every possible choice begins to look tainted and you just want to wash your hands of the whole unseemly mess.

 

But don't give in.

 

Hold fast grasshopper, as even this shall pass.

 

And when it does you'll come out of the other side fierce, strong and determined.

 

Fully ready for whatever mayhem draft day supplies, be it an utter absurdity, or the glorious rightous emboldening answer you hoped for all along.

 

Fare thee well on this voyage of discovery, fare thee well, indeed.

 

 

Edited March 24 by CommanderInTheRye

[mistertim]

1 minute ago, redskinss said:

Well I'm convinced now.

Bought a new car yesterday, the salesman was a giants fan and he thinks we should take Jayden daniels.

Anybody else need more proof or should I go back and see if he can talk me into the extended warranty?

 

It's not much of a secret anymore that the Giants really like Maye. So Giants fans wanting us to take Daniels shouldn't be super surprising.

 

Also, was he selling an extended warranty on the car or on Jayden Daniels. Because the latter might be a solid investment. 

[HTTRDynasty]

Doing some more research on Peters this morning and I thought this response was… interesting:

 

Quote

 

I know that you don’t grade prospects by round like the media does. How do you grade them?

 

We grade them by what we think their role is going to be for us. And a lot of times the number we give them equates to a certain round range. But it’s never, This number is Round 1, this number is Round 2. It’s really, What do we think this player’s role is going to be for the 49ers? And that’s how we stack them on our board. Usually the guys who are picked in the first and second round — the third round, sometimes — have starter grades on them. But it really just depends on how the board falls.

 

 

Doesn’t seem like a pure BPA process, but then again, pure BPA is pretty much a myth. 

[FootballZombie]

1 minute ago, HTTRDynasty said:

We grade them by what we think their role is going to be for us.

 

Might have to trade our next 3 drafts to get a guy who's role is "carry our whole dang franchise" lol

 

Glad were picking at 2

[mistertim]

6 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

 

You have entered the pelre-draft stage known as paralysis by over analysis.

 

At some point so much information is available on all of the prospects with the negative especially being blown up, overemphasized and repeated ad nauseum  by talking heads on tv, posters on forums and other social media echo chambers that every possible choice begins to look tainted and you just want to wash your hands of the whole unseemly mess.

 

But don't give in.

 

Hold fast grasshopper, even this shall pass.

 

And when it does you'll come out the other side fierce, strong and determined.

 

Fully ready for whatever mayhem draft day supplies, be it an absurdity, or the answer you expected all along.

 

Fare thee well on this voyage of discovery, fare thee well.

 

Another things to remember about drafnicks, twitter analysts, etc...is that their goal is not necessarily to be accurate. It's to get clicks and views and make money. And they can do that by making noise, being contrarian, and giving unpopular opinions.

 

This is why I say that, for the most part, I treat them as entertainment with a slight sprinkle of actual football analysis. 

[bowhunter]

11 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Also, was he selling an extended warranty on the car or on Jayden Daniels. Because the latter might be a solid investment. 

Oh great, now we're all gonna have to deal with a bunch of spam calls after the draft

[CommanderInTheRye]

17 minutes ago, redskinss said:

Well I'm convinced now.

Bought a new car yesterday, the salesman was a giants fan and he thinks we should take Jayden daniels.

Anybody else need more proof or should I go back and see if he can talk me into the extended warranty?

 

 

You can't forget the Tru-Coat eh.

 

Don't want ta be without that. It protects the underside and all.

 

It's put on at the factory you see and he can probly get you a hundred bucks off if ya ask him nice.

 

He'll haveta talk to the manager first for ya.

 

But go get that Tru-coat though, ehhh...

 

 

 

 

Edited March 24 by CommanderInTheRye

[cakmoney61]

2 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

 

You have entered the pelre-draft stage known as paralysis by over analysis.

 

At some point so much information is available on all of the prospects with the negative especially being blown up, overemphasized and repeated ad nauseum  by talking heads on tv, posters on forums and other social media echo chambers that every possible choice begins to look tainted and you just want to wash your hands of the whole unseemly mess.

 

But don't give in.

 

Hold fast grasshopper, even this shall pass.

 

And when it does you'll come out the other side fierce, strong and determined.

 

Fully ready for whatever mayhem draft day supplies, be it an absurdity, or the answer you expected all along.

 

Fare thee well on this voyage of discovery, fare thee well.

My brain has tilted from hearing it all.  I hear people talk with such assurance and authority yet they have opposing viewpoints.  What scares me is both viewpoints being right on why the other shouldn't be selected and neither QB ends up being the answer.

 

The one thing I do know is Washington has to come out of this draft with a QB wherever they select him.  It's possible they trade down and select one of the QB's no one is even talking about.  Anything is possible although I don't think that will happen.  I'm sure it will be either Maye or Daniels at pick #2. 

 

And my response will be, "Let's gooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!" as I hope for the best.🙏