The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[KDawg]

41 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

JJ McCarthy had 7 games this season where he threw for less than 200 yards and only 1 game where he threw for over 300. Its just not enough to make me feel comfortable taking him without getting a significant haul in a trade down.

 

Also McCarthy only rushed for 150 yards on the season (in 2022 he rushed for 250) so I think the assumption he will be any type of substantial running threat in the NFL is far too optimistic. In 2 seasons the most rushing yards he ever had in a game was 57 yards. 

 

You just said numbers without context have no meaning. Yet here you are with this post.

 

The seven games he threw for under 200 yards:

 

Bowling Green W 31-6 - This was a bad game for McCarthy. Three interceptions. However, he was throwing passes he shouldn't due to the opponent and Michigan had the game in hand. Hopefully lessons were learned because 3 INT games look really bad against anyone, especially teams like Bowling Green.

 

Nebraska - W 45-7 - McCarthy didn't even play the whole game. He was out with 5:36 left in the 3rd quarter. 12/16 for 156 2/0 in 2.5 quarters.

 

Penn State W 24-15 - This is one of the type of games I had questions about earlier. He went 7/8 passing for 60 yards. However, Michigan had 230 yards of rushing offense. Obviously they crushed Penn State on the ground, but there is absolutely a question mark there about why the coaches took the ball out of his hands.

 

Maryland W 31-24 - This was another actual bad game for him. This and Bowling Green really stand out. 12/23 for 141 0/1 is not a great stat line playing against a mid level ACC team. 

 

Ohio State W 30-24 - This was actually a really good game despite the passing yards. 16/20 for 148 1/0. He controlled the clock (Michigan's offensive style is clock control and take what's there to keep the clock running). 

 

Iowa - W 26-0 - Iowa's defense is a top defense in collegiate football. McCarthy didn't need to do much here. 22/30 for 147. Michigan only ran for 66 yards and 34 carries, though, so McCarthy had the team on his back offensively in this one. He also got sacked three times due to broken protections. 

 

Washington W 34-13 - He started off horrible. But made key plays in big moments to help seal the game for the Wolverines when it came down to it. 10/18 for 140. Michigan also rushed for 303 yards and Washington's defense had been a blundering mess all season against the run. 

 

When I look at that I see two games that stand out as not good... Bowling Green and Maryland. The rest stand out as gameplan oriented/he did all that he needed to/blow out wins. 

 

Also, Sam Howell ran for 900 yards his final college season. Do you honestly believe that if a team asked McCarthy to run he would have rushed for less yards than Sam Howell? C'mon. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[redskinss]

2 hours ago, MartinC said:

Are we really at a stage off the offseason when we are debating if Williams drops out of the top 5?

[CjSuAvE22]

1 hour ago, ThatNFLChick said:

Its just not enough to make me feel comfortable taking him without getting a significant haul in a trade down.

 

 

I wouldn’t be happy taking him 2nd overall either but if we get a haul and nab him later I would t feel terrible it think  he throws the most catchable ball out of all the prospects, eludes d lines well, and I think he has a high football iq.

[ThatNFLChick]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

You just said numbers without context have no meaning. Yet here you are with this post.

 

The seven games he threw for under 200 yards:

 

Bowling Green W 31-6 - This was a bad game for McCarthy. Three interceptions. However, he was throwing passes he shouldn't due to the opponent and Michigan had the game in hand. Hopefully lessons were learned because 3 INT games look really bad against anyone, especially teams like Bowling Green.

 

Nebraska - W 45-7 - McCarthy didn't even play the whole game. He was out with 5:36 left in the 3rd quarter. 12/16 for 156 2/0 in 2.5 quarters.

 

Penn State W 24-15 - This is one of the type of games I had questions about earlier. He went 7/8 passing for 60 yards. However, Michigan had 230 yards of rushing offense. Obviously they crushed Penn State on the ground, but there is absolutely a question mark there about why the coaches took the ball out of his hands.

 

Maryland W 31-24 - This was another actual bad game for him. This and Bowling Green really stand out. 12/23 for 141 0/1 is not a great stat line playing against a mid level ACC team. 

 

Ohio State W 30-24 - This was actually a really good game despite the passing yards. 16/20 for 148 1/0. He controlled the clock (Michigan's offensive style is clock control and take what's there to keep the clock running). 

 

Iowa - W 26-0 - Iowa's defense is a top defense in collegiate football. McCarthy didn't need to do much here. 22/30 for 147. Michigan only ran for 66 yards and 34 carries, though, so McCarthy had the team on his back offensively in this one. He also got sacked three times due to broken protections. 

 

Washington W 34-13 - He started off horrible. But made key plays in big moments to help seal the game for the Wolverines when it came down to it. 10/18 for 140. Michigan also rushed for 303 yards and Washington's defense had been a blundering mess all season against the run. 

 

When I look at that I see two games that stand out as not good... Bowling Green and Maryland. The rest stand out as gameplan oriented/he did all that he needed to/blow out wins. 

 

Also, Sam Howell ran for 900 yards his final college season. Do you honestly believe that if a team asked McCarthy to run he would have rushed for less yards than Sam Howell? C'mon. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I mean, I don't like ifs? McCarthy played tougher competition than Sam so no I'm not comfortable saying that he would have run for more yards. We have no idea. All we have is what he actually did. 

 

We could do the ifs all day but we have no way of knowing what McCarthy would be in a different system that asked him to throw the ball more and didn't rely so much on the running game which is the tough part of his evaluation. He had the luxury of knowing he and had an elite defense to fall back on and never trailed. 

 

I don't think JJ is bad at all, if we got him and a haul in a trade down I'd be fine but there are just so many question marks IMO. 

[Koolblue13]

I really don't think you can trade down past 4 and expect JJ to be there with any confidence. Giants are definitely a team I could see drafting him to sit a year. They'll probably go Nabers, but you never know. If that happened, I think you'd see a mad panic from the QB hungry teams behind him to run up.

[Rufus T Firefly]

47 minutes ago, FrFan said:

 

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-post-super-bowl-2024-nfl-mock-draft-five-quarterbacks-first-round

 

• Commanders receive: A 2024 first-round pick (No. 12), a 2025 first-round pick, a 2025 second-round pick and a 2026 first-round pick.
• Broncos receive: A 2024 first-round pick (No. 2).
• Commanders receive: A 2024 first-round pick (No. 10), a 2024 third-round pick (No. 73)
• Jets receive: A 2024 first-round pick (No. 12), a 2024 second-round pick (No. 40)

 

 

 

You should edit that gif, the swear in it will get you in trouble. 

 

As for your trade scenario, if you're doing it for McCarthy, you better be sure he'd be there at 10, which seems like quite a risk. And value-wise, you are getting hosed on the trade up. 

[FrFan]

16 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

You should edit that gif, the swear in it will get you in trouble. 

 

As for your trade scenario, if you're doing it for McCarthy, you better be sure he'd be there at 10, which seems like quite a risk. And value-wise, you are getting hosed on the trade up. 

Edited to be sure 🤔. The trade scenario is unlikely of course that's why Sikkema said "There's a bit of added wheelin’ and dealin’".

In a previous post I was entertaining the possibility to make a trade with the Vikings and still get JJ. He doesn't break the top 10 in most mocks so far, only Sporting news has him going 8 to the Falcons.

We'll get a clearer picture after the combine, until then it remains foggy.

 

Edited February 18 by FrFan

[Koolblue13]

6 minutes ago, FrFan said:

Edited to be sure 🤔. The trade scenario is unlikely of course that's why Sikkema said "There's a bit of added wheelin’ and dealin’".

In a previous post I was entertaining the possibility to make a trade with the Vikings and still get JJ. He doesn't break the top 10 in most mocks so far, only Sporting news has him going 8 to the Falcons.

 

All mocks are trash right now. The combine hasn't even started.

[Conn]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

All mocks are trash right now. The combine hasn't even started.

Mocks are trash until right before the draft…right before the draft people are trying to get it as accurate and realistic as possible. Before then, for months, people want clicks and to have signature hot takes. That doesn’t happen if everyone has the same top-10 every day. 

[FrFan]

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

All mocks are trash right now. The combine hasn't even started.

You were too fast I was editing my post

Edited February 18 by FrFan

[Rufus T Firefly]

8 minutes ago, FrFan said:

Edited to be sure 🤔. The trade scenario is unlikely of course that's why Sikkema said "There's a bit of added wheelin’ and dealin’".

In a previous post I was entertaining the possibility to make a trade with the Vikings and still get JJ. He doesn't break the top 10 in most mocks so far, only Sporting news has him going 8 to the Falcons.

 

The idea of entertaining building a draft strategy around passing over the top QBs in the draft in order to take McCarthy while simultaneously assuming McCarthy won't go very high seems really silly. 

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, FrFan said:

You were too fast I was editing my post

TWSS

[Conn]

9 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

The idea of entertaining building a draft strategy around passing over the top QBs in the draft in order to take McCarthy while simultaneously assuming McCarthy won't go very high seems really silly. 

I’ve pointed that out multiple times and the people obsessed with having it all (trading down and still stealing their favorite QB) never address it.

 

The arrogance required to think your org is going to be the only one that could pinpoint that it’s worth passing on the top guys because JJ is secretly also a top guy…it’s too much. Even if you love JJ, you basically have to consider #4 to be the lowest you’ll trade and still have a shot to get him. Because if you’re right and he’s worth it, others will probably see it too. You can’t take the risk that they won’t. You trade lower than that, get jumped by someone, and then you’re left with your dick in your hand and no QB? After starting with the #2 pick? That’s humiliating and a fireable offense. 
 

It’s probably not happening regardless but anyone who thinks we’d even entertain trading all the way down to #12 for that paltry deal, only to have to scramble and try to trade back up for JJ or whoever, is lying to themselves. 4 is the only “safe” floor for a QB even if you’re obsessed with trading down AND love JJ. 

Edited February 18 by Conn

[Koolblue13]

5 minutes ago, Conn said:

Mocks are trash until right before the draft…right before the draft people are trying to get it as accurate and realistic as possible. Before then, for months, people want clicks and to have signature hot takes. That doesn’t happen if everyone has the same top-10 every day. 

You go to the mock sites and draft guys in the 4rth and 5th that are borderline day 1 players. It's hysterical.

 

Mediots don't care, because we collectively have the memory of a goldfish.

 

Steven A Smith could call Williams a 3rd round back up for the next month and then change his tune right before the draft and brag about calling him a future HoFer. 

[Rufus T Firefly]

15 minutes ago, Conn said:

I’ve pointed that out multiple times and the people obsessed with having it all (trading down and still stealing their favorite QB) never address it.

 

The arrogance required to think your org is going to be the only one that could pinpoint that it’s worth passing on the top guys because JJ is secretly also a top guy…it’s too much. Even if you love JJ, you basically have to consider #4 to be the lowest you’ll trade and still have a shot to get him. Because if you’re right and he’s worth it, others will probably see it too. You can’t take the risk that they won’t. You trade lower than that, get jumped by someone, and then you’re left with your dick in your hand and no QB? After starting with the #2 pick? That’s humiliating and a fireable offense. 
 

It’s probably not happening regardless but anyone who thinks we’d even entertain trading all the way down to #12 for that paltry deal, only to have to scramble and try to trade back up for JJ or whoever, is lying to themselves. 4 is the only “safe” floor for a QB even if you’re obsessed with trading down AND love JJ. 

So, the only real way to do what was proposed, and it would be difficult with a lot of moving parts- LV has to want the same QB we would take without a trade down. Say it's Maye. You agree on a trade package to move down. So now you discuss a trade back up. Agree to terms with someone, let's say Tennessee at 7. 

 

So now you draft Maye. When Tennessee is on the clock and McCarthy hasn't been taken yet, you confirm the parameters of the trade back up. Then you deal Maye to LV and then the deal with the Titans and take McCarthy. 

 

But even that only works if you are prepared to take Maye and don't actually think McCarthy is better, because you don't risk losing out on your top QB.

 

Otherwise, you likely need to deal with Arizona, or at the least the Chargers to make sure you get him. 

[RWJ]

 

 

 

 

[Ghost of]

Mccarthy injured his leg in the Penn State game and couldn't drive into his throws from the pocket. He could still do running and throws on the run but this was why playcalling changed. I've said this repeatedly in this thread.  

 

He only mostly healed after the big 10 title game. 

 

That said, I would not start him his first year he needs practice and mental reps his first year. He didn't start right away at Michigan and it was much better for him. Frankly a lot of guys benefit from sitting and getting garbage time reps for a year or more.

Edited February 18 by Ghost of

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, Ghost of said:

 I've said this repeatedly in this thread.  

 

 

 

I have actively ignored this thread because of how repetitive and fan clubby it's been. 

 

At this point I just want to see who our QB is and move on with life.

[WashingtonRedWolves]

Just hit it out of the park, whoever you pick. Terry deserves a beast QB throwing to him for once in his life and will put up monster numbers if he gets one, no doubt in my mind. Highly underrated player

[Ghost of]

13 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I have actively ignored this thread because of how repetitive and fan clubby it's been. 

 

At this point I just want to see who our QB is and move on with life.

You may have avoided it but others who are asking questions already answered have been knee deep in this thing for awhile. No offense intended to them either just seems odd not to recall.  

 

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[FootballZombie]

I left the thread for a bit, was excited to return and see several pages stacked up, only to read post upon post about JJ. McCarthy...

 

Feels bad man...

 

[skinsfan66]

6 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

You just said numbers without context have no meaning. Yet here you are with this post.

 

The seven games he threw for under 200 yards:

 

Bowling Green W 31-6 - This was a bad game for McCarthy. Three interceptions. However, he was throwing passes he shouldn't due to the opponent and Michigan had the game in hand. Hopefully lessons were learned because 3 INT games look really bad against anyone, especially teams like Bowling Green.

 

Nebraska - W 45-7 - McCarthy didn't even play the whole game. He was out with 5:36 left in the 3rd quarter. 12/16 for 156 2/0 in 2.5 quarters.

 

Penn State W 24-15 - This is one of the type of games I had questions about earlier. He went 7/8 passing for 60 yards. However, Michigan had 230 yards of rushing offense. Obviously they crushed Penn State on the ground, but there is absolutely a question mark there about why the coaches took the ball out of his hands.

 

Maryland W 31-24 - This was another actual bad game for him. This and Bowling Green really stand out. 12/23 for 141 0/1 is not a great stat line playing against a mid level ACC team. 

 

Ohio State W 30-24 - This was actually a really good game despite the passing yards. 16/20 for 148 1/0. He controlled the clock (Michigan's offensive style is clock control and take what's there to keep the clock running). 

 

Iowa - W 26-0 - Iowa's defense is a top defense in collegiate football. McCarthy didn't need to do much here. 22/30 for 147. Michigan only ran for 66 yards and 34 carries, though, so McCarthy had the team on his back offensively in this one. He also got sacked three times due to broken protections. 

 

Washington W 34-13 - He started off horrible. But made key plays in big moments to help seal the game for the Wolverines when it came down to it. 10/18 for 140. Michigan also rushed for 303 yards and Washington's defense had been a blundering mess all season against the run. 

 

When I look at that I see two games that stand out as not good... Bowling Green and Maryland. The rest stand out as gameplan oriented/he did all that he needed to/blow out wins. 

 

Also, Sam Howell ran for 900 yards his final college season. Do you honestly believe that if a team asked McCarthy to run he would have rushed for less yards than Sam Howell? C'mon. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maryland mid level ACC team?  Big 10 team that plays in the tough div.  Mich. Penn ST. Ohio ST. who lost to all 3 but still won 7 games and crushed Auburn in the Bowl game. 

[ThatNFLChick]

2 hours ago, RWJ said:

 

 

 

 

 

Scangarello is an awful QB coach. 

 

Will Levis had his worst year under him.

The other QBs he's coached? Jimmy G, Carson Wentz, Drew Lock, Nick Mullens, CJ Beathard, Trey Lance, Brandon Allen, Nate Sudfield and Jamarcus Russell.

 

He has also been fired like 5 times.

Edited February 19 by ThatNFLChick

[CapsSkins]

1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

Watching with Drake Maye and Colt McCoy, huh? As in, Kliff Kingsbury's former QB Colt McCoy? 👀