The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[clskinsfan]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

Though he'll also have to balance gaining that weight with it potentially slowing him down

Which is why I think if he weighs over 200 at the combine. He wont run. He will wait to cut some weight and run at his pro day instead. 

[ThatNFLChick]

1 hour ago, Est.1974 said:

We got anyone in here with a strong/positive view on Bo Nix ?

 

I haven't paid much attention to him tbh. Apparently he had an up and down Senior Bowl.

 

 

[FootballZombie]

15 minutes ago, DiscoBob said:

I would say that this is far from certain. 

 

What fixable negative trait is? That's the risk in it all.

 

Caleb may never stop treating the ball like a bread loaf.

Drake may never improve his accuracy

Jayden may never stop acting like he is made of adamantium

 

 

There is no guarantee they fix it, but "can" they? Absolutely.

 

[clskinsfan]

9 minutes ago, Dah-Dee said:

 

Here's Daniels standing in between Stroud (measured 6'3" at combine) and Bryce Young (measured very' very' smol" at combine)

Sooo.... Daniels is right around 6'4"

 

 

Stroud was 218 at the Combine. If Daniels is over 200 pounds in that picture I weigh 400.

[The Consigliere]

4 hours ago, Dark Acre said:

Steve Young.  https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/Y/YounSt00.htm

So the answer is "not often".

It's kind of complicated, he played for a crap LA Express team for two years, and was solid and below average there, and then was dumped onto the worst roster in the league in Tampa. The second he started taking snaps with a competent franchise, he was superb. 13 TD's versus 3 picks in '87 and '88 with the Niners. I am kind of arguing for arguing's sake, but I honestly don't think he was a bust, a mess, maybe, but not a bust yet. The Raiders also had another two of them in Plunkett, and Rich Gannon who 20 years apart, rediscovered their greatness late in their careers. Gannon was basically an AFC Kurt Warner for a while in Oakland, Plunkett's weird, I always just assumed he was great in Oakland, but he wasn't, he was basically bang average, but won a couple of super bowls, what fascinates me, is in raw fantasty stats, Plunkett was actually good for 3 of his first 4 years, but the early 1970s were just a different world from today, period, nothing like this one. 

 

 

[ThatNFLChick]

12 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Which is why I think if he weighs over 200 at the combine. He wont run. He will wait to cut some weight and run at his pro day instead. 

 

I don't know if he will run at all. TBH, I don't really see the benefit in it for him. 

 

Just like Williams is probably not going to do a single thing at the combine but interviews and get measured (just like Bryce Young did last year)

 

Edited February 13 by ThatNFLChick

[clskinsfan]

Just now, ThatNFLChick said:

 

I don't know if he will run at all. TBH, I don't really see the benefit in it for him. 

 

You would think he would want to show off what he excels at. Running at the Combine really helped RG3. And in a strong QB class at the top of the draft he probably should run. 

[Dah-Dee]

Just now, ThatNFLChick said:

 

I don't know if he will run at all. TBH, I don't really see the benefit in it for him. 

 

 

Agree. Bryce Young didn't run at combine or pro day last year. Ditto for Joe Burrow, who reportedly ran an unofficial 4.9 lol, to go with his tiny tiny hands in the 5th percentile (9.0). Poor guy.

[ThatNFLChick]

16 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

You would think he would want to show off what he excels at. Running at the Combine really helped RG3. And in a strong QB class at the top of the draft he probably should run. 

 

Why? If he is already considered a top 3 pick? Lamar didn't run at all. Running a 4.3 won't make him leapfrog Caleb Williams. 

 

Bryce Young did nothing at the combine last year because he already knew he was going in the first 3 picks. Stroud didn't run either.

 

Richardson did everything because he was considered a later pick and wanted to increase his draft stock. 

 

You can bet Williams won't be doing a thing but interviews and maybe some measurements. I doubt he runs at his pro day. 

 

The only thing that can help Daniels draft stock is increasing his weight. 

Edited February 13 by ThatNFLChick

[ThatNFLChick]

There's some Washington talk here:

 

 

[DiscoBob]

32 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

What fixable negative trait is? That's the risk in it all.

 

Caleb may never stop treating the ball like a bread loaf.

Drake may never improve his accuracy

Jayden may never stop acting like he is made of adamantium

 

There is no guarantee they fix it, but "can" they? Absolutely.

 

 

There are going to be counter examples to most items.  Some items are much more easily fixable.  I would argue that something like the ability to avoid hits is typically a "have" or "have not" trait.  Can you find a running quarterback who took lots of shots in college, who continued to run in the pros, but avoided hits.... probably, but it's a sticky trait IMO, and one that Daniels hasn't exhibited. 

[Dah-Dee]

Because I still have nightmares about RG3, I'm terrified of seeing Daniels come to Washington and get wiped out on a massive hit. That is one skinny kid.

 

I do think, however, that some of the 'can't avoid a hit' and/or 'can't take a hit' comments are overblown a bit. Yeah, I've seen the video clips of big hits from 2023, and some of those look pretty bad - most specifically, what the crap was Daniels thinking, trying to hurdle his own line straight into a pancake tackle? Don't care if coaches called that play, as QB you gotta see what's happening right in front of you and ... do something different.

 

But I do note a couple things about those clips. First, the legit big hits shown are all in the first third of last season. I haven't seen a clip of him taking a big hit later in the season, which included the meat of the SEC schedule, so that might support an argument he did/can learn to play smarter.

 

In addition, at least a couple of those hits resulted in flags; the Ole Miss player got ejected for targeting, and the Alabama edge (likely first rounder Turner) got flagged for roughing the passer (and should have probably gotten ejected for targeting/helmet-to-helmet if you've seen the clip). So I do think those hits should at least come with an asterisk. Or something.

 

 

[mistertim]

The other aspect of Daniels and getting hit is not just how he runs in a somewhat reckless way and isn't great at avoiding big hits, it's in the way his body physically responds to them.

 

This was discussed a bit here recently. Some guys get immediately compact when they get hit (most RBs have this natural instinct) but some guys do the opposite. That's Daniels. He basically splays out and flops around like a wet noodle when he gets hit and it's very reminiscent of how RG3's body responded to hits. And it's scary as hell because that's going to be much more likely to get you injured.

 

And I don't think that's something that can be "fixed". It's mostly an instinct / neurological thing most likely.

[NOLA2DC]

6 minutes ago, mistertim said:

The other aspect of Daniels and getting hit is not just how he runs in a somewhat reckless way and isn't great at avoiding big hits, it's in the way his body physically responds to them.

 

This was discussed a bit here recently. Some guys get immediately compact when they get hit (most RBs have this natural instinct) but some guys do the opposite. That's Daniels. He basically splays out and flops around like a wet noodle when he gets hit and it's very reminiscent of how RG3's body responded to hits. And it's scary as hell because that's going to be much more likely to get you injured.

 

And I don't think that's something that can be "fixed". It's mostly an instinct / neurological thing most likely.

Pain can be the best teacher, and I'm sure a few of those hits rocked him. I think it's fixable and Lamar learned to get away from those hits like most dual threats do. I do think the weight concern is valid, but he is 6-4, so he probably can add another 20 lbs. Also, we need to remember RG3 hurt himself by not sitting after initially getting hurt. Finally, no matter how big you are, those hits add up; Josh will learn as Ben and Cam did. 

[dunfer]

If he was a pocket guy that could run when needed and got rocked Id say yeah lets try to fix that...but hes a running qb that doesnt know how to protect himself. If he gets hurt and loses a step, what do we have? Another wasted top pick?

Edited February 14 by dunfer

[Dah-Dee]

32 minutes ago, NOLA2DC said:

Pain can be the best teacher, and I'm sure a few of those hits rocked him. I think it's fixable and Lamar learned to get away from those hits like most dual threats do. I do think the weight concern is valid, but he is 6-4, so he probably can add another 20 lbs. Also, we need to remember RG3 hurt himself by not sitting after initially getting hurt. Finally, no matter how big you are, those hits add up; Josh will learn as Ben and Cam did. 

 

All true, and I still think the buzz around hits on Daniels is a little much. Other than the couple of floppy hits we see in the same 'lowlight' reel floating around, I don't recall seeing much in the way of big hits on Daniels in 2023. I saw a lot of him diving to the ground, instead of sliding, which needs to be addressed by NFL coaches, but not the crash dummy stuff. 

 

Everyone gets ragdolled once in a while, even those with a (deserved) rep for generally avoiding big hits:

 

 

(sorry for wonky link/clip of Lamar getting blasted)

[CapsSkins]

Daniels can put on some weight, but ain't putting on another 20 lbs of muscle when he's already 23 years old. Whoever drafts him has to hope he can stay healthy at his current weight plus ~5-10 lbs IMO. 

[Warhead36]

19 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

Daniels can put on some weight, but ain't putting on another 20 lbs of muscle when he's already 23 years old. Whoever drafts him has to hope he can stay healthy at his current weight plus ~5-10 lbs IMO. 

I just don't buy the "he's suddenly going to put on weight now that he's in the NFL" argument. He played for LSU, a cream of the crop program that I'm sure has better strength training regiments than most NFL teams(at the very least on par). And if he does put on weight, it absolutely will affect his speed/athleticism/mobility. 

 

We heard the same argument for Forbes last year and did anything happen? 

[NOLA2DC]

9 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

Good breakdown of Daniels. And I agree with almost all of it. Except his take on Daniel's arm strength. Which I disagree with this guy about it being good. I also dont have a 4th round grade on him either. I have a late first early second grade on him. 

 

It's a joke at this point; you can find a vid proclaiming why each of these guys should go #1, or they're overrated. We'll see in a couple of months. 

16 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I just don't buy the "he's suddenly going to put on weight now that he's in the NFL" argument. He played for LSU, a cream of the crop program that I'm sure has better strength training regiments than most NFL teams(at the very least on par). And if he does put on weight, it absolutely will affect his speed/athleticism/mobility. 

 

We heard the same argument for Forbes last year and did anything happen? 

I don't think anyone is saying overnight. However, as he gets older, he should be able to add weight like fighters do. The main question is, does the team drafting him think he needs to?  

[dunfer]

18 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I just don't buy the "he's suddenly going to put on weight now that he's in the NFL" argument. He played for LSU, a cream of the crop program that I'm sure has better strength training regiments than most NFL teams(at the very least on par). And if he does put on weight, it absolutely will affect his speed/athleticism/mobility. 

 

We heard the same argument for Forbes last year and did anything happen? 

DQ needs to get LaRon back in as strength and bulk coach

[CapsSkins]

27 minutes ago, dunfer said:

DQ needs to get LaRon back in as strength and bulk coach

 

Ya more like Steroids & HGH coach 

[dunfer]

9 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Ya more like Steroids & HGH coach 

Its what its going to take to get some meat on them bones

[ThatNFLChick]

47 minutes ago, dunfer said:

DQ needs to get LaRon back in as strength and bulk coach

 

Lol is there a way to bulk up the bottom half? He has obviously gained muscle mass in his arms but still slender everywhere else. 

 

[MartinC]

4 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

It's kind of complicated, he played for a crap LA Express team for two years, and was solid and below average there, and then was dumped onto the worst roster in the league in Tampa. The second he started taking snaps with a competent franchise, he was superb. 13 TD's versus 3 picks in '87 and '88 with the Niners. I am kind of arguing for arguing's sake, but I honestly don't think he was a bust, a mess, maybe, but not a bust yet. The Raiders also had another two of them in Plunkett, and Rich Gannon who 20 years apart, rediscovered their greatness late in their careers. Gannon was basically an AFC Kurt Warner for a while in Oakland, Plunkett's weird, I always just assumed he was great in Oakland, but he wasn't, he was basically bang average, but won a couple of super bowls, what fascinates me, is in raw fantasty stats, Plunkett was actually good for 3 of his first 4 years, but the early 1970s were just a different world from today, period, nothing like this one. 

 

 

Fun fact Rich Gannon was our number 3 QB in 1993. Ended up starting a couple of games in a complete mess of a season. 
 

Another one who got away.

[dunfer]

24 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Lol is there a way to bulk up the bottom half? He has obviously gained muscle mass in his arms but still slender everywhere else. 

 

not skipping leg day. Squats squats and more squats

Edited February 14 by dunfer