The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[mistertim]

12 minutes ago, woodpecker said:

I know it’s taboo not to worship Sam on this thread, but can we at least now admit he’s no Josh Allen?? Asking for a friend.

 

Good lord some of you guys are such histrionic drama queens.

 

Who in here is or has been "worshipping" Sam Howell? Who has been saying he's better than Josh Allen?

 

Don't post dumb **** like this and then wonder why people don't take your hot takes seriously.

Edited December 18, 2023 by mistertim

[skinny21]

I mentioned a while back my concern that even though he seems pretty tough mentally, he was going to be ruined by this season.  Not to say he doesn’t share some of the blame, but taking a lot of hits, getting pressured quickly, mostly only having time to throw short to guys that aren’t separating, not having the backing of a ground game, and feeling like he has to overcome a terrible defense… the odds were very long that he’d be able to show/prove much.  Facing all of that as a young guy in a new scheme?  I can’t think of a worse situation for a qb.

 

While there’s a part of me that wants to see him with a better supporting cast - from coaches to oline to pass catchers to defense, the new FO virtually has to draft a qb early if they’re in a position to do so.  Even if you like Sam as a qb, you can’t really just assume he will bounce back.  Hope it all works out either way…

[Wyvern]

I'd like to make three points: 

 

1.  This team is not even at the level to entertain a quarterback controversy -- it's in the process of being dismantled at several levels ---so starting Brissett to win the next three games accomplishes nothing.

 

2.  Before we all annoint Brissett as the new franchise QB, and start second-guessing why he wasn't starting earlier -- let's remember his heroic attempts were taking place in what was almost garbage time and to my opinion the Rams were celebrating their win a little early, and letting down. There's also been lots of times when a QB change gives a short-term lift, but doesn't last when the backup becomes the starter and defenses have planned for him.   I'd also note there are times when Brissett can look great and other times when he doesn't -- that's why he's moved from team to team.  A great backup, maybe, but not as consistent as you'd like.  Okay, with 10 years in the league, Brissett probably can read defenses more quickly than Howell can right now, but, per Bieniemy,  Howell is a quick learner and improver who doesn't repeat his mistakes

 

3.  If Bieniemy is that great of a play-designer, why hasn't he developed more plays to fit Howell's rollout abilities, and stop keeping Sam stationed within a 2 second pocket, where his sight lanes and passing lanes are clogged?   Has Bieniemy asked Howell to work on practicing short throws with more loft on them, as part of his passing game arsenal to avoid bat-downs??  It seems like Bieniemy has a system in mind he doesn't want to change,  and like many other coaches, just tries to make the QB fit his system rather than adjust.

[woodpecker]

11 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Good lord some of you guys are such histrionic drama queens.

 

Who in here is or has been "worshipping" Sam Howell? Who has been saying he's better than Josh Allen?

 

Don't post dumb **** like this and then wonder why people don't take your hot takes seriously.

Hey man, just reporting what I read. Go back and look. No drama. Your angry reaction actually makes my point, but OK I’ll tone it down to he is overrated on this thread.

[mistertim]

3 minutes ago, woodpecker said:

Hey man, just reporting what I read. Go back and look. No drama. Your angry reaction actually makes my point, but OK I’ll tone it down to he is overrated on this thread.

 

I'm not angry. My emotion at your particular flavor of silliness can be summed up by this:

 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

32 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I've seen zero hero worship in this thread. 

 

I've seen people pretend that Howell plays in a vacuum and should shoulder every bit of blame, and then be corrected.

 

Maybe your friend should have the courage to ask his own dumb questions.

No, no, 2 ppl literally said they’d rather him over Josh Allen. That was definitely a thing 

[BrentMeisterGeneral]

I’ve questioned Howell in here and copped some heat, there have definitely been times in here that he is been beyond question for some, I thought it was odd then, I think it’s even more odd now.

 

Rightly or wrongly I’m not sure I’ve ever seen an NFL player more excused than him, and I don’t even dislike him I think he’s alright, but I think drafting an alternative should definitely be on the table.

[clskinsfan]

1 hour ago, Llevron said:

Honestly I had hoped he would be better than this. I'm not surprised at all.

I picked us tp be 5-12 in the record prediction thread because I expected Sam to struggle. It's what young QB's do. And if we werent going to be picking top 5 I would say stay with him for another season and build around him. But we are gonna be picking top 5. So you have to go QB imo.

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, mac8887 said:

Sam has some beautiful hair, but it stands really tall, I wonder if they patted his hair down when they measured him because if not it added at least an inch and a half

You know what they say: the bigger the hair, the closer to God. 

 

(I very thin hair.  Read into that what you will...)

[mistertim]

8 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

No, no, 2 ppl literally said they’d rather him over Josh Allen. That was definitely a thing 

 

I think there might have been one person who brought a little bit of that nonsense some time ago and everyone else basically said "bro, gtfo" regardless of how they felt about Howell. I know I did.

 

Anyone trying to paint Howell supporters in here in a certain light by pointing to something like that is being disingenuous at best.

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

I picked us tp be 5-12 in the record prediction thread because I expected Sam to struggle. It's what young QB's do. And if we werent going to be picking top 5 I would say stay with him for another season and build around him. But we are gonna be picking top 5. So you have to go QB imo.

Yeah, but the reason we're 4-10 is not really due to Sam struggling, at least not early on. We should have 2, maybe 3 more wins if the defense wasn't literally the worst in the entire league, and literally NOBODY saw that coming.  Bram has gone on and on about if you told him the defense was going to be this bad, he'd never have believed you. 

 

If the defense was even just averagely bad, they should have had 2 more wins going into the Dallas game where they got creamed.  

 

 

[philibusters]

I have been and still am pro-Howell.  The one thing that annoyed me that some of the extreme Howell fans did was they refused to acknowledge that he was a big part of the huge amount sacks we have given up.  I have been pro-Howell, while acknowledging that he has his faults and there are things he needs to improve.  Where I have clashed with other pro-Howell people specifically though is on the sacks.  This is a normal bad O-Line.  They are probably not bottom 5 in the NFL, though they are pretty clearly below the mid point mark amongst O-Lines.  Clearly not all the sacks are on Howell, but a decent portion of them are.  Its a truism that got put into my head listening to NFL podcasts the last few years that sacks are generally more of a QB stat than O-Line stat (though obviously the stat reflects on both to some degree).  So coming into this year that was already a strong belief in me that QB's have a big part of the sack total.  So maybe its the religious zealot side of me that does not like a foundational belief to be questioned, but it annoys me that some of the fan base is putting the entire sack issue on the O-Line.

[mac8887]

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Yeah, but the reason we're 4-10 is not really due to Sam struggling, at least not early on. We should have 2, maybe 3 more wins if the defense wasn't literally the worst in the entire league, and literally NOBODY saw that coming.  Bram has gone on and on about if you told him the defense was going to be this bad, he'd never have believed you. 

 

If the defense was even just averagely bad, they should have had 2 more wins going into the Dallas game where they got creamed.  

 

 

Yeah but on the other hand the d saved us in the pats, falcons and cards games

[clskinsfan]

4 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Yeah, but the reason we're 4-10 is not really due to Sam struggling, at least not early on. We should have 2, maybe 3 more wins if the defense wasn't literally the worst in the entire league, and literally NOBODY saw that coming.  Bram has gone on and on about if you told him the defense was going to be this bad, he'd never have believed you. 

 

If the defense was even just averagely bad, they should have had 2 more wins going into the Dallas game where they got creamed.  

 

 

I agree with you, But here we are. It is more about the ability to draft a true game changer at the QB position to me. We are going to be in position to do it. Which is actually rare for this franchise. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Just now, mac8887 said:

Yeah but on the other hand the d saved us in the pats, falcons and cards games

Yeah, not really.  The only game they played decently in was the Cards game, and that was against Dobbs who'd been there 5 minutes.  And they were already showing the propensity to give up big plays. 

 

Atlanta is one of the worst offenses in the league with one of the worst QB situations with Ridder and Hallock. 

 

The Patriots might be the worst offensive team in the league and they scored 17, when they had basically been shut out for a month.

 

No, the defense has let this team down in every game but one, or the offense they were playing was so horrifically incompetent, they couldn't do anything about it.   

1 minute ago, clskinsfan said:

I agree with you, But here we are. It is more about the ability to draft a true game changer at the QB position to me. We are going to be in position to do it. Which is actually rare for this franchise. 

We might be in a position to do it naturally, depending on how the draft unfolds and the pick we get.  
 

We will be in a position to trade up to get one.

 

If they don't find a way to upgrade the protection, we're going to Patrick Ramsey/Derrick Carr (and now maybe Sam Howell) whatever top QB we bring in here.  If they bring in a top QB prospect, and I'm absolutely fine with that for multiple reasons, if they aren't capable of protecting them, you're going to lose them quickly.  

[woodpecker]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

I think there might have been one person who brought a little bit of that nonsense some time ago and everyone else basically said "bro, gtfo" regardless of how they felt about Howell. I know I did.

 

Anyone trying to paint Howell supporters in here in a certain light by pointing to something like that is being disingenuous at best.

Well, no, it was several people. Obviously an extreme example, but in line with the overall tenor of the thread. No worries though, I’ll drop it. My comment was admittedly snarky, so my apologies if it bothered you. Have a nice day.

[mac8887]

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Yeah, not really.  The only game they played decently in was the Cards game, and that was against Dobbs who'd been there 5 minutes.  And they were already showing the propensity to give up big plays. 

 

Atlanta is one of the worst offenses in the league with one of the worst QB situations with Ridder and Hallock. 

 

The Patriots might be the worst offensive team in the league and they scored 17, when they had basically been shut out for a month.

 

No, the defense has let this team down in every game but one, or the offense they were playing was so horrifically incompetent, they couldn't do anything about it.   

Your right, the d stinks, all I'm saying is in the close games we lost 1 or 2 more plays made by the offense gives us a win. In both Eagles games we had a big lul in the 2nd and third quarter getting stuck in between the 40s. Now the offense did play good those games, just not good enough to win. If they did we would have won

[zCommander]

11 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

Yeah but on the other hand the d saved us in the pats, falcons and cards games

 

But failed us in our own freaking division. Twice to the Giants and the Eagles. We could have won both of those games!

[mac8887]

Just now, zCommander said:

 

But failed us in our own freaking division. Twice to the Giants and the Eagles. We could have won both of those games!

I don't think you can blame the d solely in those giants games. The o was just as bad in those if not worse

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, mac8887 said:

Your right, the d stinks, all I'm saying is in the close games we lost 1 or 2 more plays made by the offense gives us a win. In both Eagles games we had a big lul in the 2nd and third quarter getting stuck in between the 40s. Now the offense did play good those games, just not good enough to win. If they did we would have won

Ok, but in both Eagles games the defense gave up more than 30 points.  Sure, the offense could have done more.  But they DID score 31 in both games.  That damn well should be enough to win.  

 

You can turn around the same statement on the defense in either game, if the defense makes 1 stop, they win.  I'm not going to criticize the offense even a little bit after putting up 31 points when the defense gets completely shredded drive after drive after drive.  

Just now, mac8887 said:

I don't think you can blame the d solely in those giants games. The o was just as bad in those if not worse

Not remotely close.  Nor the Bear's game.  

 

The defense came out and gave up points immediately.  You have to expect the offense to be perfect.  That's too much to ask of almost any offense.  And certainly this one with a first year QB, new scheme and a horrid OL.

[zCommander]

1 minute ago, mac8887 said:

I don't think you can blame the d solely in those giants games. The o was just as bad in those if not worse

 

So you are saying DeVito was not a rookie QB? A legit D doesn't let a rookie like Tommy score more than a TD if that. This team was supposed to be a 10 win team this year based on the fact that our D was going to be top 5. But when the season started they become bottom feeders instead. 

[mac8887]

Just now, Voice_of_Reason said:

Ok, but in both Eagles games the defense gave up more than 30 points.  Sure, the offense could have done more.  But they DID score 31 in both games.  That damn well should be enough to win.  

 

You can turn around the same statement on the defense in either game, if the defense makes 1 stop, they win.  I'm not going to criticize the offense even a little bit after putting up 31 points when the defense gets completely shredded drive after drive after drive.  

I agree with you there as well, you score 31 you should win, and you can flip it around on the d. All I'm trying to say is it wasn't just a bad d or o this year. In most games we've stunk as a whole. In some games the o played better, and in some games the d would hold the other team to 2 or 3 three and outs in a row and the o couldn't capitalize. Our suckage has been a team effort from the top down

1 minute ago, zCommander said:

 

So you are saying DeVito was not a rookie QB? A legit D doesn't let a rookie like Tommy score more than a TD if that. This team was supposed to be a 10 win team this year based on the fact that our D was going to be top 5. But when the season started they become bottom feeders instead. 

I've heard people compare Sam to a rookie, does that mean that the eagles d is trash for letting him score more than a td? Devitto had a nice little streak off over 100 qbr. Plus the offense did nothing that game as well

[kingdaddy]

54 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

I mentioned a while back my concern that even though he seems pretty tough mentally, he was going to be ruined by this season.  Not to say he doesn’t share some of the blame, but taking a lot of hits, getting pressured quickly, mostly only having time to throw short to guys that aren’t separating, not having the backing of a ground game, and feeling like he has to overcome a terrible defense… the odds were very long that he’d be able to show/prove much.  Facing all of that as a young guy in a new scheme?  I can’t think of a worse situation for a qb.

 

While there’s a part of me that wants to see him with a better supporting cast - from coaches to oline to pass catchers to defense, the new FO virtually has to draft a qb early if they’re in a position to do so.  Even if you like Sam as a qb, you can’t really just assume he will bounce back.  Hope it all works out either way…

QB's have bounced back from beatings before, specifically Troy Aikman. He got his head handed to him over and over again his first year as a starter. Sam can do it too, especially with a new staff coming in to clear his head. That being said, who knows if he'll even be here? 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

23 minutes ago, philibusters said:

I have been and still am pro-Howell.  The one thing that annoyed me that some of the extreme Howell fans did was they refused to acknowledge that he was a big part of the huge amount sacks we have given up.  I have been pro-Howell, while acknowledging that he has his faults and there are things he needs to improve.  Where I have clashed with other pro-Howell people specifically though is on the sacks.  This is a normal bad O-Line.  They are probably not bottom 5 in the NFL, though they are pretty clearly below the mid point mark amongst O-Lines.  Clearly not all the sacks are on Howell, but a decent portion of them are.  Its a truism that got put into my head listening to NFL podcasts the last few years that sacks are generally more of a QB stat than O-Line stat (though obviously the stat reflects on both to some degree).  So coming into this year that was already a strong belief in me that QB's have a big part of the sack total.  So maybe its the religious zealot side of me that does not like a foundational belief to be questioned, but it annoys me that some of the fan base is putting the entire sack issue on the O-Line.

I got crushed for this for most of the year lol. I went to the opener against AZ and it was clear as day. The issue went back to college. 

[CobraCommander]

1 minute ago, kingdaddy said:

QB's have bounced back from beatings before, specifically Troy Aikman. He got his head handed to him over and over again his first year as a starter. Sam can do it too, especially with a new staff coming in to clear his head. That being said, who knows if he'll even be here? 

Why would Sam not be here? He’s on a 5the round rookie contract. 
 

I welcome all solutions to this nightmare. In GM I trust.