The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[88Comrade2000]

4 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

This is fair, as that's why he was brought here.

 

Going back to him brings me back to my bird in hand concern.  I will not be happy outright releasing Wentz unless it's clear what the plan is to replace him.

 

Don't try to convince me "oh we'll figure it out" when he haven't figured it out this century.

 

 

Whatever Ron does 23 it will be short term.

 

2024 is when we go after that long term guy- whether Ron is the coach or not.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Are you guys ready for the Mayfield Mobile?

[DJHJR86]

17 hours ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

I think anything short a playoff win and Ron looks to replace him. 

 

Once Ron names Wentz the starter today (or tomorrow), anything short of making the playoffs, they should be looking to replace Ron.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

Shout out to @wit33:

 

I’m hoping for Wentz to play well enough to be a better option at a $20M cap hit than Derek Carr would be at a $40M cap hit.

 

We’re entering a period where there are a number of non-elite QBs with >15% cap hits, which in recent history has been anomalous among Super Bowl-reaching QBs (the exception being Peyton Manning and also Matt Ryan the year he made it).

 

Case in point: though we are in a QB-driven league, we are headed into uncharted waters in terms of Derek Carr / Kirk Cousins tier QBs costing as much as they do, and it’s not clear that that’s a better option than a Wentz or Mariota level guy at 8-10% of the cap.

 

Heinicke is not good enough no matter how small his cap hit is. But I’m not convinced that we can’t go the distance by building a great team around Wentz. If he can perform closer to his level last year, it would go a long way towards me wanting him back at a reduced cap hit. And I don’t see why he wouldn’t take a pay cut to come back to a good situation with system and locker room familiarity rather than testing the waters elsewhere in FA. I certainly don’t know who else would pay him $30M.

 

 

As much as I like Carr as an option, I don't know anyone here who supports the idea of him at 40 million, that would be nuts.   Kirk is killing it this year and is the main driver of Minny's season along with his supporting cast on offense, and has been this time the comeback kid including doing it against our mr moxie "clutch" Taylor, while his defense sucks.  He's earned his pro bowl, tough year for Kirk's critics to swallow because he has the stats and the wins, maybe they will luck out and he flames out in the playoffs.   So I see Carr and Kirk as apples to oranges.  Typically I put them in a similar camp but this year Kirk is a clear peg better.

 

Mariota is someone I pushed as a cheap option.  I am not as sold after this season.  He can run.  Maybe he adds more than Taylor for that reason.  But his passing was as bad as Taylor.   Wentz to me is a no brainer hard no even at 20 million if he plays like he did early this season.  Will see though what he does now.  Everything being equal I want a QB with at least a modicum of wheels, Wentz looked like a statue, but will see if we get more mobility this time.

 

If I had to pick a cheap QB right now maybe Jacoby Brissett?  Unexciting name for sure. But everything being equal I like a guy who can also run, Jacoby has some wheels and the build to take a hit.  But that's only if we are going super cheap.  If Tannehill is released maybe him?  Baker is hit and miss but I wouldn't be opposed, apparently he has been good in the locker room. 

 

Carr or Jimmy G would be on the table for me and big time but only if they'd get paid in the 20s and i am not sure that's realistic but will see. 

 

Carr was better last year than this year.  What intrigues me about Carr is he has the clutch moxie that Taylor has sometimes.  But the main thing is he's very comfortable distributing the ball on the first level, very fluid, Wentz struggles typically with those layup throws. 

 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Conn]

12 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Once Ron names Wentz the starter today (or tomorrow), anything short of making the playoffs, they should be looking to replace Ron.

We’re going through an ownership change, the time table just isn’t going to make that realistic regardless.

[Skinsinparadise]

I'd be lying if I said I watched much of Brissett this season but tough to miss he didn't do too bad.  no I wouldn't be excited about him but if we'd go cheap he'd intrigue me a little because he's also a big dude who can run.

 

but lol please don't jump down my throat.  😀  I am not advocating him.  But if we do the cheap option ala last year we all debated Trubisky, Mariota, etc -- the dude I'd throw in that mix is Brissett. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

27 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Once Ron names Wentz the starter today (or tomorrow), anything short of making the playoffs, they should be looking to replace Ron.

😭 Because Heinicke has been playing so well, he’d totally win the next two.

 

 

Edited December 27, 2022 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[Chump Bailey]

Brissett's interesting. I hope he gets another shot at starting as he has earned that IMO. My biggest issue with chasing Carr and similar are their bloated salaries, which is obvious and a real concern shared by all it appears. I guess it all boils down to whether we believe signing Carr would move the needle enough for us to start winning consistently and decisively again. I don't know. But, if we're wrong, such a move could obviously hamstring this team for precious years to come. While it won't be anything close to a suffocation type deal ala Russell Wilson, it can still serve to be an albatross. I also do not have a lot of faith in our FO RE: contract structuring. 

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

Brissett's interesting. I hope he gets another shot at starting as he has earned that IMO. My biggest issue with chasing Carr and similar are their bloated salaries, which is obvious and a real concern shared by all it appears. I guess it all boils down to whether we believe signing Carr would move the needle enough for us to start winning consistently and decisively again. I don't know. But, if we're wrong, such a move could obviously hamstring this team for precious years to come. While it won't be anything close to a suffocation type deal ala Russell Wilson, it can still serve to be an albatross. I also do not have a lot of faith in our FO RE: contract structuring. 

 

Contract structuring is pretty basic.  The dude who does it for us is Harvard educated with a good reputation so am sure he's not a lost puppy with it.  

 

The challenge we've had with it is simple by most appearances -- money.    The Rams and Eagles among others convert contracts by adding singing bonuses, dummy years at the end, and various ways to use guaranteed money and punt the contract to later.  In order to do that, you need to have the cash flow.  Guaranteed money on big contracts require for all of that money to be escrowed.  Other owners have that luxury, our owner not so much.

 

Having said that, the bill is ultimately due and when that happens the team can be screwed see what the Saints and Rams are going through.   So for me I don't care how they stagger Carr's contract, I am not paying him 40 million.  Even 30 million is a hard choice for me.

 

I like Carr but he's not a franchise QB.  He's good, not great.   He should be at a low for him as far as his market -- he was better last year.  Jimmy G is interesting, unlike Carr, he was having a career year but he got hurt and that's part of the narrative about Jimmy G which is questionable durabiity.

Edited December 27, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[tomwvr]

16 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

😭 Because Heinicke has been playing so well, he’d totally win the next two.

 

 

My main issue with wentz is we destroyed our oline to pay for him. 28 mil was way too much for this team to carry this season. With an improved oline and a mid tier qb we would have been a solid playoff team this year. 

[Skinsinparadise]

This poll is a bit closer than the others

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

20 minutes ago, tomwvr said:

My main issue with wentz is we destroyed our oline to pay for him. 28 mil was way too much for this team to carry this season. With an improved oline and a mid tier qb we would have been a solid playoff team this year. 

Besides all of the other speculation involved, what does that have to do with who starts this week?

 

The only possible way to win with Heinicke is for every other aspect of the team to be hitting on all cylinders, and for him to not turn it over.  Slye isn’t going to make a bunch of 50 yarders every week, the defense isn’t going to stop everybody every week, refs aren’t going to take out defenders every week.  Taylor IS going to put the ball at risk every week, and he’s not always going to get lucky it doesn’t get turned over every week.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2022 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[DJHJR86]

36 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

😭 Because Heinicke has been playing so well, he’d totally win the next two.

 

The horseshoe theory as it relates to the behavior of the Hivers and the Haters is amazingly accurate.  Both of them misquote anything you say to fit their narrative.

[Warhead36]

Man we got people clamoring for the likes of Jacoby Brisett in here LMAO. Man do we need a franchise QB bad....

[DJHJR86]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

Man we got people clamoring for the likes of Jacoby Brisett in here LMAO. Man do we need a franchise QB bad....

 

Did you know that Kirk's cap hit this year is roughly the same as Heinicke + Wentz?  How depressing is that?

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

13 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

The horseshoe theory as it relates to the behavior of the Hivers and the Haters is amazingly accurate.  Both of them misquote anything you say to fit their narrative.

You literally said Rivera needs to be fired IF he starts Wentz and they miss the playoffs, which is easy to infer that if he starts Heinicke and they miss the playoffs, his job is safe.  Post better.

[Zim489]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I'd be lying if I said I watched much of Brissett this season but tough to miss he didn't do too bad.  no I wouldn't be excited about him but if we'd go cheap he'd intrigue me a little because he's also a big dude who can run.

 

but lol please don't jump down my throat.  😀  I am not advocating him.  But if we do the cheap option ala last year we all debated Trubisky, Mariota, etc -- the dude I'd throw in that mix is Brissett. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

IMO one of the few pick ups next year I wouldnt hate. Ive always liked him. 

[redskinss]

10 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Did you know that Kirk's cap hit this year is roughly the same as Heinicke + Wentz?  How depressing is that?

But what is it next year in comparison?

Or the year after that?

There's value in not kicking tens of millions down the road, especially when you're not sure if you have your guy yet.

Edited December 27, 2022 by redskinss

[Zim489]

8 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Man we got people clamoring for the likes of Jacoby Brisett in here LMAO. Man do we need a franchise QB bad....

Yeah its bad haha. But for me Jacoby seems to be on the high end of the spectrum of play vs cost.

[DJHJR86]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

You literally said Rivera needs to be fired IF he starts Wentz and they miss the playoffs, which is easy to infer that if he starts Heinicke and they miss the playoffs, his job is safe.  Post better.

 

His job should be on the line regardless of who starts if they miss the playoffs.  Reading between the tea leaves, he's been wanting to switch back to Wentz for the last few weeks.  He has his chance now.  If the owner's...I mean Mayhew...I mean Rivera's handpicked guy can't take them over the hump and into the playoffs, at the very least he shouldn't be the one making personnel decisions any longer.

[CjSuAvE22]

2 minutes ago, redskinss said:

But what is it next year in comparison?

Or the year after that?

There's value in not kicking tens of millions down the road, especially when you're not sure if you have your guy yet or not.

Yah the value is trading for Alex smith and having 10 qbs (im not sure how many tbh) start since then plus waste multiple draft picks on the position, any football entity could see cousins was a viable option at qb, he wasn’t pat mahomes Tom Brady drew Bree’s etc but teams can win with him at qb with the right pieces people always forget how bad our defenses were when he played and the fact that he never had a running back but we were miss ram back then so hopefully now once we have the right person under center the team will value what they are worth

[DJHJR86]

5 minutes ago, redskinss said:

But what is it next year in comparison?

 

Kirk is roughly 10 million more of a cap hit than Wentz next year.  Heinicke signing a new deal somewhere likely brings them closer.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

2 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Are you guys ready for the Mayfield Mobile?

I am....🙋

[redskinss]

3 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Kirk is roughly 10 million more of a cap hit than Wentz next year.  Heinicke signing a new deal somewhere likely brings them closer.

But then you gotta add cousins backups salary in for comparison I guess.

But yeah, I'm not a cousins hater, I'd have been willing to keep him for sure.

I'm in the camp that thinks cousins was leaving regardless and the year after year franchise tag was a power play by him to force his way out and go to a real franchise.

I don't think he would have signed a long term deal here for anything short of a contract that would have been way out of line and crippling.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

14 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

His job should be on the line regardless of who starts if they miss the playoffs.  Reading between the tea leaves, he's been wanting to switch back to Wentz for the last few weeks.  He has his chance now.  If the owner's...I mean Mayhew...I mean Rivera's handpicked guy can't take them over the hump and into the playoffs, at the very least he shouldn't be the one making personnel decisions any longer.

Dude hasn’t played in months, and is immediately inserted into must win games because the guy who took his job hasn’t won in a month.  Dallas is clearly on a higher tier than this team, winning against them is a feat with any QB on our roster.  It’s not a good matchup for us.

 

If anything, perhaps Ron should have made a switch sooner so we didn’t have to win two to get in.