The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Hooper]

Barring Taylor play lights out against Philly -- and he hasn't even played one good full game yet -- Ron will go back to Wentz if healthy. I get it. Especially now that odds are Ron is the coach next season. He wants to find out for sure if Wentz is worth riding with. 

 

I was done on Wentz as much as anyone, but the truth is the only time the offense has looked explosive has been when he's in the game. It's fun rooting for Taylor, and clearly his teammates love him, but I would back Ron on this for sure. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Just now, Hooper said:

It's fun rooting for Taylor,

I did not know you enjoyed root canal's without Novocain. 

 

Good to know.  

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

We need a new stat: murder balls.  I'd bet TH leads the league in those as well.  He got Turner killed in his second game, sent to the blue-tent and then into concussion protocol,  almost sent ... I can't remember who, to the ER with an inside-out chest on a screen to the outside which was thrown late and took 7 minutes to get there.  It might have been Samuel.

 

There are at least 2 more.  One was to Terry but he somehow managed to not get killed.  I don't remember the other one.

 

 

 

Yep.  I get that Taylor is lovable and he's a walking talking Rudy.    He's a cool dude indeed.  But...

 

But its not hard to miss he's not an NFL starter, he doesn't have the arm strength, accuracy or decision making chops.  In his defense the decision making might just be a function of him being short and not being able to see the field that well.  You don't have too many 6 feet or below QBs who kill it in the league without elite mobility for a reason.

 

I don't need to see PFF's charts to see that they chart him as a dude who throws a very large portion of interceptable passes.  When i watch the games am just expecting the INTs are going to come.  

 

And yeah picks matter

 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[CommanderInTheRye]

24 minutes ago, Hooper said:

Barring Taylor play lights out against Philly -- and he hasn't even played one good full game yet -- Ron will go back to Wentz if healthy. I get it. Especially now that odds are Ron is the coach next season. He wants to find out for sure if Wentz is worth riding with. 

 

I was done on Wentz as much as anyone, but the truth is the only time the offense has looked explosive has been when he's in the game. It's fun rooting for Taylor, and clearly his teammates love him, but I would back Ron on this for sure. 

 

 

I think you're most likely correct.

 

Personally, I'd prefer to see Howell next but I concede that he's probably not ready.

 

The most important thing to me is that they at least wait a game or two beyond the 4 weeks that Wentz will be on ir before playing him so that there is no way he hits the 70% threshold.

 

That 2nd round pick is gold.

Edited November 11, 2022 by CommanderInTheRye

[Voice_of_Reason]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Yep.  I get that Taylor is lovable and he's a walking talking Rudy.    He's a cool dude indeed.  But...

I guess I just don't find him all that because I really only care about the performance.  

 

I find it absolutely WILD he has so many of the local media totally brainwashed though.  Pete Hailey is the worst.  Even JP said he has hearts in his eyes.  Pete wanted to give TH a game ball after the GB game where he didn't have a completion through the first quarter.   Mitch is also pretty bad.  JP is the most even of the three, but even he says he likes the dude.  (But refused to let Pete give TH a game ball.)

 

Standig has gone over the edge.  

 

Keim almost talks about his lack of arm strength in a whisper like it's insulting to talk about it. 

 

Galdi thinks he can play.  

 

I haven't really paid attention to Sheehan except I don't think he's changed his opinion that he is a high-end backup.

 

Lovero loves him.  

 

I mean, it's insanity.  

 

I think it could be people who cover the team, and don't watch a lot of other football, have just forgotten what a good QB looks like.  In the last 30 years, we've had exactly 2 good QB seasons, and they were just "good."  Maybe "very good" at times, though not consistently.  Not great. That was Kirk in 2016 and Brad Johnson in 1999.  That's it.  That's the list. (with a caveat below) Brunell gets the honorable mention for the first half of 2005 when he was pretty good but then he got hurt and he wasn't even that any more. 

 

The outlier is Griffin and his magical 2012 season.  But that was SO different, it wasn't really good "traditional" QB play, it was outstanding dual-threat QB play.  So, if you want to toss that one in there, go for it.

 

But I don't think the media guys even know what they are watching anymore because they watch so much of this mess they don't realize TH is, absent a few moxie-magic plays, basically complete garbage the rest of the time.  

 

 

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

But its not hard to miss he's not an NFL starter, he doesn't have the arm strength, accuracy or decision making chops.  In his defense the decision making might just be a function of him being short and not being able to see the field that well.  You don't have too many 6 feet or below QBs who kill it in the league without elite mobility for a reason.

What's crazy is at least twice a game he makes a "what in God's name did you see there?" throw, and what's even wilder is Terry and last week Samuel (with big assist from the Back Judge) bail him out.  I love the fact he gave Terry a chance at the game winner against Indy.  If you can't tell that ball was 8 yards under thrown, you're blind.  The throw to Samuel for the TD should have been a pick if the back judge didn't take out the safety who was standing there looking to fair catch the ball.

 

He gets rewarded enough he keeps doing it.  It doesn't always work out, though, which is where the INTs come from.  

 

[redskinss]

35 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Bill Walsh couldn't have created an offense which would have made TH a good QB.   Better than Turner?  Yes.  Anywhere approaching passable? No. 

When heinicke throws a pass over 30 yards the defense yells SAME !!!!!!!!!!!!

[Voice_of_Reason]

7 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

Personally, I'd prefer to see Howell next but I concede that he's probably not ready.

If Wentz is not ready after we (likely) lose to the Eagles, I want to see Howell too. Because at least he has the ability to make plays down field where TH does not.

 

Atlanta and Houston should honesty be wins.  That gets them to 6-6 with back to back games against the Giants with the bye week sandwiched in between.  

 

They gotta come out of that 7-7 or better to have a shot at the playoffs.  For them, that's the goal right now.  

 

We might be able to bludgeon our way to 2 wins against Houston and Atlanta with TH.  But if we can do it with TH, we could do it with Howell.  Or, honestly, whoever is starting at QB for the Langley Saxons.

[Skinsinparadise]

26 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I guess I just don't find him all that because I really only care about the performance.  

 

I find it absolutely WILD he has so many of the local media totally brainwashed though.  Pete Hailey is the worst.  Even JP said he has hearts in his eyes.  Pete wanted to give TH a game ball after the GB game where he didn't have a completion through the first quarter.   Mitch is also pretty bad.  JP is the most even of the three, but even he says he likes the dude.  (But refused to let Pete give TH a game ball.)

 

Standig has gone over the edge.  

 

Keim almost talks about his lack of arm strength in a whisper like it's insulting to talk about it. 

 

Galdi thinks he can play.  

 

I haven't really paid attention to Sheehan except I don't think he's changed his opinion that he is a high-end backup.

 

Lovero loves him.  

 

I mean, it's insanity.  

 

 

 

Sheehan isn't sold at all.  Ditto Grant and Danny.    Ditto Hoffman, C. Russell and Logan Paulsen.

 

According to Keim this coaching staff isn't enamored with Heinicke the player but love the dude but they don't see him as the future starter.

26 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

What's crazy is at least twice a game he makes a "what in God's name did you see there?" throw, and what's even wilder is Terry and last week Samuel (with big assist from the Back Judge) bail him out.  I love the fact he gave Terry a chance at the game winner against Indy.  If you can't tell that ball was 8 yards under thrown, you're blind.  The throw to Samuel for the TD should have been a pick if the back judge didn't take out the safety who was standing there looking to fair catch the ball.

 

He gets rewarded enough he keeps doing it.  It doesn't always work out, though, which is where the INTs come from.  

 

 

Yeah I hope not but he's due for a 3 pick kind of game, he's been lucky he hasn't been picked off more. 

Edited November 11, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Stone Cold]

I want to see what we have in Howell as soon as feasible.  I advocated for drafting him and was obviously stoked we got him where we did.  The comparison to TH is actually not far off. I believe he’ll carry the locker room the same way TH does.  He plays with fire and moxie…and obtw, his physical skills are TH on steroids.  He was also a multi sport star playing for Dre Blys travel baseball BlackSox.  I’m intrigued at how he translates to NFL.  I really think we found the guy, but I haven’t seen or heard much since camp.  Only the coaches know I suppose 🤷‍♂️ 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 hours ago, FLSkinz83 said:

QB's will have more bad passes when the pass protection is subpar.   

 

I'm not saying TH or Howell are the future, but it's a lot easier upgrading an O-Coordinator and O-line than it is finding a top notch QB.

I’m sure OC’s are lining up to tie their careers to Taylor Heineke.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Jesus ****ing H tap dancing Christ. I guess if we have to see Wentz again, fine. FINE. 
 

But this is a textbook example of shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic.  Two different forms of miserable quarterback play. 
 

 

[wit33]

I’ve not heard one person on radio, podcast or this site state Heineke is the future or a franchise QB. 
 

What I can promise you is he’ll lead the charge to beat the Eagles, causing chaos and dozens to lose their respective minds on both sides. This is the Heineke Way. 

[88Comrade2000]

The future qb isn’t on the roster. Hell, the future backup isn’t on the roster.

 

2023 likely favors Carson coming back since the ownership change would prevent any big moves at qb; so we go with Carson again and Sam bumps up to backup. Possible Taylor gets a 1 year deal.

 

 

Now, if the ownership change could be finalized before Free Agency starts; then all bets are off. The new owner may want to trade for a qb. Say Green Bay decides to trade Aaron. Having Aaron for the final 2-3 years might be something the new owner wants. Besides Aaron we would fix the o-line. Or maybe we move up to land one of the top qbs in the draft?

 

 

I don’t anyone on the qb roster has a long term future here.

[Est.1974]

I just can’t see a scenario that involves Wentz being the QB in 2023. I would take a guess already that Rivera knows they got that one wrong. In my opinion we will be making a significant move in the offseason to get a QB. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

4 hours ago, wit33 said:

I’ve not heard one person on radio, podcast or this site state Heineke is the future or a franchise QB. 

That’s the rub though, fans will go out of their way to say that he’s not a franchise QB, but then describe his play as that of a damn near franchise QB.  They’ll go on to talk about how Turner does or doesn’t do this or that and if he did, we’d be winning more with Heinicke.

 

4 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

What I can promise you is he’ll lead the charge to beat the Eagles, causing chaos and dozens to lose their respective minds on both sides. This is the Heineke Way. 

That is actually not the Heinicke way against good teams like the Eagles.  I expect this to be another one where the Hive is MIA and @zCommander will be in here alone arguing in his honor.

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

I don't think Heinicke is that complicated to figure out, he's basically Colt McCoy.

 

And heck I recall some on this board for years thought Colt could be the guy, some thought better than Kirk or at least as good.  Those takes haven't aged well.  I see Heinicke so much like Colt its uncanny the similarties.

 

Edited November 12, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[RandyHolt]

C'mon we have to play Carson to feature him so we can trade him for a kings ransom like Indy did to us.  But no one will want Carson even if he plays lights out because that would just be our luck. We'd keep him and then he would revert to left handed right handed throws aka good Carson bad Carson.

[wit33]

4 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

That’s the rub though, fans will go out of their way to say that he’s not a franchise QB, but then describe his play as that of a damn near franchise QB.  They’ll go on to talk about how Turner does or doesn’t do this or that and if he did, we’d be winning more with Heinicke.

 

Maybe some truth there, the QB position is difficult when comparing below average guys, often times lacks fundamental truths and all subjective. With an elite QB, there are truths fans align with.

 

I was intrigued with Heineke early on last season, but lost all interest when he decided to become a pocket QB and fight for every win. His moxie has declined greatly since earning some real money and becoming the starter. The moxie was level 10 against Tampa and has been a free fall ever since. He’s become vanilla and bland.

 

4 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

That is actually not the Heinicke way against good teams like the Eagles.  I expect this to be another one where the Hive is MIA and @zCommander will be in here alone arguing in his honor.

 

 

 

 

Buccaneer fans disagree with you. Heineke will lead Washington to a victory. I’m telling you man, get on the right side of the Heineke way, it’ll be much less stressful. 

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I don't think Heinicke is that complicated to figure out, he's basically Colt McCoy.

 

And heck I recall some on this board for years thought Colt could be the guy, some thought better than Kirk or at least as good.  Those takes haven't aged well.  I see Heinicke so much like Colt its uncanny the similarties.

 

Colt would actually put it all on the line each opportunity he got. Taylor has chosen to play it safe. Never will I attempt to get in the way of another man’s opportunity to make money. I get it to a degree on his side. He’s pro longer his career and will have another 4-6 years of being a back up earning great money. Can’t say he played it wrong. 

Edited November 12, 2022 by wit33

[Voice_of_Reason]

17 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Sheehan isn't sold at all.  Ditto Grant and Danny.    Ditto Hoffman, C. Russell and Logan Paulsen.

Sheehan thinks he's a backup.  I don't listen to Grant, Danny or Hoffman.  

 

Russell just wants to run the ball 80 times a game, and still thinks Joe Barry and Manuski were passable DCs, so his opinion on football is as useless as his pregnant pauses between every 4th word in inopportune places. (Even if he happens to be somewhat right on this, that's more because a broken clock is right twice a day than anything else.)

 

 

 

17 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

According to Keim this coaching staff isn't enamored with Heinicke the player but love the dude but they don't see him as the future starter.

They need to not love the dude because the dude can't play.  It's Colt McCoy, Ryan Grant, Fat Rob Kelly, Luavao, Reed Doughty. It's also "Wrong Way Jon Bostic."  

 

These are great, try hard, maximize their ability guys who don't have he physical skill to play in the NFL.  And as soon as they didn't make it here, they didn't make it anywhere.

 

Ron needs to get rid of his binkies, and that starts with Bostic and Heinicke. I don't care if they are the greatest, most moxie-touched souls in the world, they can't play and should be removed from the equation.  

8 hours ago, wit33 said:

I’ve not heard one person on radio, podcast or this site state Heineke is the future or a franchise QB. 
 

What I can promise you is he’ll lead the charge to beat the Eagles, causing chaos and dozens to lose their respective minds on both sides. This is the Heineke Way. 

They're going to get blown out unless he magically can produce more than 22 points, which he hasn't done in his last 5 wins.  

 

The Heinicke way is to suck for 58 minutes, make 3 moxie-magic plays, and pray to God the defense stops the opponent enough to have the Football Lord touch his shaggy head with greatness on one last miracle heave, which ends up being underthrown, but Terry bails him out because Terry is in fact the football God.  

Edited November 12, 2022 by Voice_of_Reason

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I don't think Heinicke is that complicated to figure out, he's basically Colt McCoy.

Colt even had a better arm than TH, and it's not that close.

 

I think he's more Chase Daniel: Under-sized, everybody loves him, can't really play, but he's had a 15 year career based on being a great backup and guy in the locker room, but literally everybody knows if he plays, it's for a short period and they will most likely lose.  

 

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

And heck I recall some on this board for years thought Colt could be the guy, some thought better than Kirk or at least as good.  Those takes haven't aged well.  I see Heinicke so much like Colt its uncanny the similarties.

 

JAY thought Colt was similar to Kirk for a long time, and wanted Colt to get  a crack.  But Colt was always hurt. Every opportunity he had, he broke something.  I think Jay said on one of his many, many, many rehabilitation appearances on podcasts he thought Colt could play, and wanted to give him a chance, but every time he tried, he had the bad luck of an injury.  Remember, in 2014, Jay's first year, Kirk played and wet the bed, and was benched for Colt.  Going into 2015, the Colt vs. Kirk thing was actually a discussion because Kirk didn't play well in relief of Griffin when he had the chance.  He threw 9 INTs in 5 starts, and was benched for Colt, I believe, who won that OT game against Dallas.  

 

After 2015, that clearly wasn't the case.  But going into 2015, there were a lot of questions....

[zCommander]

5 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I expect this to be another one where the Hive is MIA and @zCommander will be in here alone arguing in his honor.

 

 

 

 

 

It's the zCommander way. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Colt even had a better arm than TH, and it's not that close.

 

 

Disagree.  they look about the same to me.  I've seen Heinicke and Colt throw a lot in camp.  their arm strength to me is just about identical.

 

I think Colt is more accurate though than Heinicke.  Both throw the ball up for grabs and are INT prone.  Heinicke IMO has better wheels when he uses them but to @wit33's point I agree, Colt uses his wheels more it seems.

 

Both are loved in the locker room with Colt based on reputation being the more G-PG personality with Heinicke having more PG13 to him.

Edited November 12, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

Buccaneer fans disagree with you. Heineke will lead Washington to a victory. I’m telling you man, get on the right side of the Heineke way, it’ll be much less stressful. 

 

I doubt Buccaneer fans even remember Heinicke's name, let alone think about him. It's not like he tossed 5 TDs in that game. He threw for 256 yards and 1 TD.

 

And your argument is that Heinicke played decently vs one good team, therefore the eggs he laid vs other good teams, especially in the latter half of the season, should forgotten?

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

JAY thought Colt was similar to Kirk for a long time, and wanted Colt to get  a crack.  But Colt was always hurt. Every opportunity he had, he broke something.  I think Jay said on one of his many, many, many rehabilitation appearances on podcasts he thought Colt could play, and wanted to give him a chance, but every time he tried, he had the bad luck of an injury.  Remember, in 2014, Jay's first year, Kirk played and wet the bed, and was benched for Colt.  Going into 2015, the Colt vs. Kirk thing was actually a discussion because Kirk didn't play well in relief of Griffin when he had the chance.  He threw 9 INTs in 5 starts, and was benched for Colt, I believe, who won that OT game against Dallas.  

 

After 2015, that clearly wasn't the case.  But going into 2015, there were a lot of questions....

 

Jay has been pretty direct that Kirk was the best QB he had.  Several different reporters asked him that question.

 

[Skinsinparadise]