The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Renegade7]

27 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

@Renegade7 Rivera made a bet on Wentz last summer, which I supported because I thought he'd be a clear upgrade over Taylor and potentially a long-term starter. I think it's pretty clear he's not that guy. Not every bet is going to hit. But given that now we have more data, I wouldn't go back to Wentz just because he was the Day 1 starter. ESPECIALLY not if it would cost our 2nd round pick. 

 

Taylor played a bad Packers team. The real tests will be Minnesota and Philly. But I wouldn't be surprised if he gives the team a better chance to win than Carson.

 

I hear you, and my understanding is the number of games Wentz will miss on IR alone will keep our 2nd and send Colts our 3rd (anyone can correct me on that).  I'm nervous about making it too obvious we are hiding Wentz to keep that pick if he's off IR, that sounds ripe for arbitration. 

 

Having said that, I have huge reservations on saying it's obvious Taylor is better then Wentz right now when the whole team is playing better then it did the start of the season.  I didn't hear anyone clamoring for Taylor when Wentz threw 4 TDs against the Jags, regardless of who's better, Wentz has the higher ceiling and that's why he's here.

 

For all we know, we could be adding a fresh Wentz to a team with a much better defense and run game then he started with. And that's any QBs best friend.

 

Like...what do we do if Taylor bombs against the Vikings but we are still hovering in contention enough for a playoff run, go to Howell?

 

If we all agree there are throws Wentz can make that none of the other QBs can, then it should be obvious to put him back in there when he's healthy because even with his flaws he gives us best chance to win games.  Wentz won the job fair and square in August, I was at the practice at FedEx, and even though I was pissed about the Wentz trade and had to be calmed down by yall, my eyes weren't lying to me, Wentz was better.

 

If Wentz comes back and Rivera says Taylor is jus playing better and it's showing in practice as well that it's obvious Taylor is now ahead of him, let Rivera say that after falling all over himself to defend Wentz not even a week ago.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Renegade7

[CapsSkins]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I hear you, and my understanding is the number of games Wentz will miss on IR alone will keep our 2nd and send Colts our 3rd (anyone can correct me on that).  I'm nervous about making it too obvious we are hiding Wentz to keep that pick if he's off IR, that sounds ripe for arbitration. 

 

Having said that, I have huge reservations on saying it's obvious Taylor is better then Wentz right now when the whole team is playing better then it did the start of the season.  I didn't hear anyone clamoring for Taylor when Wentz threw 4 TDs against the Jags, regardless of who's better, Wentz has the higher ceiling and that's why he's here.

 

For all we know, we could be adding a fresh Wentz to a team with a much better defense and run game then he started with. And that's any QBs best friend.

 

Like...what do we do if Taylor bombs against the Vikings but we are still hovering in contention enough for a playoff run, go to Howell?

 

If we all agree there are throws Wentz can make that none of the other QBs can, then it should be obvious to put him back in there when he's healthy because even with his flaws he gives us best chance to win games.  Wentz won the job fair and square in August, I was at the practice at FedEx, and even though I was pissed about the Wentz trade and had to be calmed down by yall, my weren't lying to me, Wentz was better.

 

If Wentz comes back and Rivera says Taylor is jus playing better and it's showing in practice as well ghat it's obvious Taylor is now ahead of him, let Rivera say that after falling all over himself to defend him not even a week ago.

 

So actually just 4 games alone (which is what Wentz is currently projected to miss) won't be enough to save the 2nd round pick.

 

The condition on the pick is 70% of snaps, which projects to somewhere between 5-7 games depending on how the snap counts shake out.

 

To me, Wentz is absolutely not *next* year's starter. Therefore, I think protecting the pick is the highest priority. If we're in contention by the time Wentz is healthy, then we've probably gone at least 2-2 if not 3-1 (likely beating GB & Indy, and stealing one between Minny and Philly). If that's the case, Heinicke is the hot hand *and* still needs a few games to ensure we save our pick. That's the primary part of the calculation.

 

The other option is going back to Wentz and letting Howell play the last two-three games if/when we're out of it. 

[skinny21]

4 hours ago, Conn said:

Saying he’s a poor man’s Mahomes is like saying I’m a poor man’s Michael Fassbender. I mean, sure technically we’re both human men with four limbs and a face. But the similarities pretty much stop there so not being able to come up with a better comparison just highlights the absurdity of it. 

They don’t have similar play styles?  Backyard football, mobility, utilizing different throwing platforms.  It’s ridiculous to compare their physical talent though for sure…

Now if you were saying you have a similar acting style to Fassbender, that changes things, lol.

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 Then he shouldn't be in charge of building this team if it doesn't phase him being that wrong and jus running with an obvious backup QB for another possible playoff run after seeing how that ended last year.

 

He's basically winging it, one game at a time sounds good, but if Taylor actually beats out Wentz when he returns and Rivera honestly believes Taylor is the better QB, can Rivera really be trusted to evaluate that position anymore?  I'd say he'll no.

 

Edit:  Ron went out of his way to clarify it was his idea to bring in Wentz, not Snyder, deciding Taylor is better in late November early December is lose lose for him and he should be let go for that alone.  Flippin through QBs like a Sears catalog is NOT winning football

It’s kind of a strange situation, to have a backup that knows the system and is mobile, vs a guy with loads more arm talent, but struggling behind this oline and needing more time to get comfortable in the system.

That’s not to absolve RR of blame, just that 1) things are dynamic (oline falling off, Wentz’s mobility being shot) and 2) those things have changed how the offensive gameplan is called. 

Maybe I’m “defending” him because I’m guessing his thought pattern lines up with mine - I went from Wentz is a clear upgrade over the limited TH, and started the season well.  To - Wentz got beaten up due to the porous oline play, TH looked good avoiding pressure/sacks behind that same poor blocking.  And now I’m at - well, TH might be better for this team as things stand now, let’s see how this next timeframe plays out.

 

Not sure if it’s all that dissimilar to the 49ers situation (there are definite differences though of course).

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

The team is sitting at 3-4 in what is currently the best division in football.

 

Perhaps we should see a few more games before worrying about who starts several weeks from now.

 

If somehow TH can do enough to have the team in contention a month from now, there’s no way he’s going back to the bench for Wentz.

I think this is the logical way to look at it.  I still think Wentz is the better qb (it’s a lot tighter for me now though, mostly due to TH’s passion and Wentz’s immobility).  I believe Philly is going to light Taylor up though, making the decision (right or wrong) easier to turn back to Wentz.  Not sure that will be the right move (if it happens) with the oline as it is.

My hope would be they turn to Howell instead, depending on… factors.

1 hour ago, Dan T. said:

 

 

One advantage Heinicke seems to have over Wentz is a soft touch on shorter passes.  Which, if you go back and watch the game, was a major factor in moving the chains yesterday. It got so frustrating watching Wentz rocket 8 yard curl routes over the receiver's head time and time again. Too often his arm strength hurts him on short and intermediate passes.  At least Taylor's flutter balls give open receivers a chance.  

 

Heinicke is Billy Kilmer minus the bourbon and with his pre-auto accident legs.

Seems like it.  I was encouraged by Taylor, in his press conference, saying that he was making the right reads in the first half, and I think it’s possible he has an edge over Wentz there as well.  Now that’s to be expected of course, as he’s been in this offense a lot longer, but it’s an issue I had with Wentz’s starts.  I expect the team to turn back to Wentz (right or wrong), I just hope he’s bit further along mentally and the oline has gelled/improved a bit by then.

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

11 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Here's hoping! It would be awesome if he can turn into our Dak (4th/5th round guys who become true franchise QBs).

 

Also, if our draft position is too low for the top prospects, Jimmy G is a free agent this summer. We can easily ditch Carson and could theoretically sign a legit starter in Jimmy to replace him. Funny enough, Jimmy G is kind of like San Francisco's Heinicke in terms of his teammates loving him. It's so clear they preferred him to Trey Lance.

I will have a stroke if Washington signs Jimmy G in the off-season. 

[Warhead36]

I think if this were a better QB draft class we would have drafted a guy and let him sit behind Heinicke for a year. But its telling that the run on QBs in FA/trades happened right after the combine. This legitimately was one of if not the worst QB draft classes ever. The one guy taken in the 1st round looks terrible.

[Renegade7]

11 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

So actually just 4 games alone (which is what Wentz is currently projected to miss) won't be enough to save the 2nd round pick.

 

The condition on the pick is 70% of snaps, which projects to somewhere between 5-7 games depending on how the snap counts shake out.

 

To me, Wentz is absolutely not *next* year's starter. Therefore, I think protecting the pick is the highest priority. If we're in contention by the time Wentz is healthy, then we've probably gone at least 2-2 if not 3-1 (likely beating GB & Indy, and stealing one between Minny and Philly). If that's the case, Heinicke is the hot hand *and* still needs a few games to ensure we save our pick. That's the primary part of the calculation.

 

The other option is going back to Wentz and letting Howell play the last two-three games if/when we're out of it. 

 

Got it in the range needed to keep the pick, thanks for the clarification.

 

I get your logic long-term, jus gotta say winning games near term is higher priority to me then draft picks.  Our future franchise QB won't be a 2nd or 3rd rounder.

 

We have to seriously consider Dan being too broke to replace Rivera right now and Ron making the excuses needed to buy Wentz more time because he doesn't have the cap space to resign Taylor and keep Wentz.

 

In a perfect world, we are doing what we gotta do to draft a rookie QB in 2023.  But thats not where we are, Ron went all in for Wentz because be was afraid to go all in with Taylor.  Don't believe for a second that's changed because **** is going to get real real fast when it comes to extending Taylor and no one's gonna agree on whether to do it or for how much. 

 

It pains me to say this, but Wentz is gonna be the opener day starter for 2023 and we need to act like it by preparing him best we can for that.

 

This franchise refuses to do what makes the most amount of sense, so our choices are limited to what they've already made up their minds on.  Debate freely, not trying to control anything, I jus learned that the hard way long time ago so much of what I say now about this franchise is through that lense.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Renegade7

[CapsSkins]

8 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Got it in the range needed to keep the pick, thanks for the clarification.

 

I get your logic long-term, jus gotta say winning games near term is higher priority to me then draft picks.  Our future franchise QB won't be a 2nd or 3rd rounder.

 

We have to seriously consider Dan being too broke to replace Rivera right now and Ron making the excuses needed to buy Wentz more time because he doesn't have the cap space to resign Taylor and keep Wentz.

 

In a perfect world, we are doing what we gotta do to draft a rookie QB in 2023.  But thats not where we are, Ron went all in for Wentz because be was afraid to go all in with Taylor.  Don't believe for a second that's changed because **** is going to get real real fast when it comes to extending Taylor and no one's gonna agree on whether to do it or for how much. 

 

It pains me to say this, but Wentz is gonna be the opener day starter for 2023 and we need to act like it by preparing him best we can for that.

 

This franchise refuses to do what makes the most amount of sense, so our choices are limited to what they've already made up their minds on.  Debate freely, not trying to control anything, I jus learned that the hard way long time ago so much of what I say now about this franchise is through that lense.

 

I disagree that Ron will try to sell the fanbase on Carson starting in 2023. I think Ron legit thought Carson could be the long-term guy, that's why he brought him in here, and Carson has disappointed him with his on-field performance.

 

I believe Ron will either draft a guy or sign someone to replace Carson. If it's the latter, probably Jimmy G. 

11 minutes ago, Professor_Nutter_Butter said:

I will have a stroke if Washington signs Jimmy G in the off-season. 

 

Why? He's better than Carson and Heinicke by a mile. Howell may not be ready - or be the guy - and we might not be in a position to draft a Day 1 Starter.

[Renegade7]

1 minute ago, CapsSkins said:

 

I disagree that Ron will try to sell the fanbase on Carson starting in 2023. I think Ron legit thought Carson could be the long-term guy, that's why he brought him in here, and Carson has disappointed him with his on-field performance.

 

I mean, bruh, its only week 7 of year 1.  1st year implementing this or being here excuses have been first page go tos in the NFL for as long as I can remember, and sometimes it really is fair to say that.

 

1 minute ago, CapsSkins said:

I believe Ron will either draft a guy or sign someone to replace Carson. If it's the latter, probably Jimmy G. 

 

He's more likely to sell us on Wentz then a combination of admiting Wentz was a mistake, letting Taylor leave in free agency, and bringing in another overpriced marginal veteran QB to save our franchise.  That's the type of logic that should get Ron piss tested, imo.

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

12 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

I disagree that Ron will try to sell the fanbase on Carson starting in 2023. I think Ron legit thought Carson could be the long-term guy, that's why he brought him in here, and Carson has disappointed him with his on-field performance.

 

I believe Ron will either draft a guy or sign someone to replace Carson. If it's the latter, probably Jimmy G. 

 

Why? He's better than Carson and Heinicke by a mile. Howell may not be ready - or be the guy - and we might not be in a position to draft a Day 1 Starter.

Just stop taking other team's QBs. It rarely works long term.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 hour ago, Dan T. said:

 

Millennial Commanders fan:

 

What's a "Sears catalog?"

 

 

 

 

 

 

"it's where your old man peeped the bra ads when he was 12, son..."

[Rufus T Firefly]

46 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

Also, if our draft position is too low for the top prospects, Jimmy G is a free agent this summer. We can easily ditch Carson and could theoretically sign a legit starter in Jimmy to replace him. Funny enough, Jimmy G is kind of like San Francisco's Heinicke in terms of his teammates loving him. It's so clear they preferred him to Trey Lance.

A different mediocre QB?

 

[Idaho fan]

The Wentz revenge game won't include Carson or Matt Ryan.   crazy.  

[Warhead36]

Colts are benching Matt Ryan.

 

 

[wit33]

The move is to draft a 1st round QB and have an open QB competition with Heineke and Howell (if staff likes what they’ve seen the past year) next year. 
 

Always remain lean and in power at the QB position when not having an elite guy. Franchises held hostage for competency is a losing game. The elites can have leverage, no one else. Rinse and repeat. 

[actorguy1]

 

[FLSkinz83]

Matt Ryan has a separated shoulder.    

 

I was reading the Colts beat reporter on Twitter and he's blaming the O-Line for Ryan's poor play.   Same O-Line that Wentz had last year; which ranked 30th in pass protection and everyone blamed Wentz.

 

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

3 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

Matt Ryan has a separated shoulder.    

 

I was reading the Colts beat reporter on Twitter and he's blaming the O-Line for Ryan's poor play.   Same O-Line that Wentz had last year; which ranked 30th in pass protection and everyone blamed Wentz.

 

 

 

Wonder why they used the word "benched" when it's injury-related?

[Idaho fan]

A little disappointing.  Im going to be at the Indy game and I was looking forward to watching Matt get abused.  How good is this Sam Ehlinger guy?  This could be bad for our defense... seems like we have had trouble with young QBs getting their first start.

 

Colts are still 4 point favorites.. get bets in quick if you have confidence in our defense.  

3 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

Wonder why they used the word "benched" when it's injury-related?

Because it is for the rest of the season regardless of Matt's health per reports.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Idaho fan

[FLSkinz83]

4 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

Wonder why they used the word "benched" when it's injury-related?

 

 

Sounds like they are making this move regardless of the injury.    

[Warhead36]

4 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

Wonder why they used the word "benched" when it's injury-related?

Reich named Ehlinger the starter for the rest of the season, so Ryan's injury is irrelevant.

[Koolblue13]

[FLSkinz83]

 

[ExoDus84]

18 minutes ago, Idaho fan said:

The Wentz revenge game won't include Carson or Matt Ryan.   crazy.  

 

Irsay getting ready to suit up.

 

Man's gonna take matters into his own hands.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

It’s wild how quickly the narrative changes.  It feels like less than two weeks ago Ryan led a GW drive and he was being heralded as the hall of famer they knew he was when they traded for him.

[Cooleyfan1993]

Wow…..so Matt Ryan and Carson wentz both haven’t turned out well for their teams this year. Wouldn’t have thought over the summer that that would be possible at all.