The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Conn]

10 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Since Jimmy G was their first choice, that’s all u need to know.

It really isn’t and this is an overly simplistic, almost infantile take. An NFL offseason has uncountable moving parts. The fact that at one point they were potentially more enticed by the price of Jimmy G than the price they ended up paying for Wentz (that they got killed for btw) doesn’t really say anything at all except that we looked into every single QB option available to us and shopped around rather than zeroing in on one dude at all costs. Which we knew already. 
 

The way you’re consistently able to take any rogue data point and instantly incorporate and homogenize it into your strongly, previously held opinion will always be interesting to me. By far you are the poster here who speaks with the most surety and authority no matter how correct or incorrect you end up being, almost always posting in the form of statements that you find to be self-evident. And whether you end up right or wrong you just keep doing it—with seemingly no self-reflection in between. Your posts always draw my eye for that reason. It’s like watching someone with an old View-Master taped to their face walk through a cavernous room, confidently declaring what lays before them. Then someone reaches over and changes the slide in your View-Master and you instantly adjust, going on your merry way, still sure of what you’re seeing regardless of the previous outcome. 

[zCommander]

27 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I agree with the point below.  I am far from all in on Wentz.  I don't think he's a top 10 QB.  He's probably in the 15-20 range. But part of that narrative is he will have his share of stinker games.  2 good games IMO, one bad one.  I'd let the script play out. 

 

 

I will take it further with the script. I was thinking about this last night. Ron and Wentz need to ride into the sunset. But not after this year though. Starting over again next year is counter productive to me and no continuity. Wentz is here for two more years. You keep him for two more years. At the end of 2024 you see where you at with both of them. This is when you do a reset with new GM, coach and QB if it comes to that. 

 

I am not good with contract stuff but do you have to extend him after this year or just honor the deal for year 2 and 3 that they gave him when they got him? If you have to extend him then you drop him instead of keeping him if he fails this year. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

4 minutes ago, Conn said:

The way you’re consistently able to take any rogue data point and instantly incorporate and homogenize it into your strongly, previously held opinion will always be interesting to me. By far you are the poster here who speaks with the most surety and authority no matter how correct or incorrect you end up being, almost always posting in the form of statements that you find to be self-evident. And whether you end up right or wrong you just keep doing it—with seemingly no self-reflection in between. Your posts always draw my eye for that reason. It’s like watching someone with an old View-Master taped to their face walk through a cavernous room, confidently declaring what lays before them. Then someone reaches over and changes the slide in your View-Master and you instantly adjust, going on your merry way, still sure of what you’re seeing regardless of the previous outcome. 

You should see him in the tailgate.  🤣🤣🤣

 

One of the only posters here that I don’t even need to see the screen name to know who is posting it.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

I will take it further with the script. I was thinking about this last night. Ron and Wentz need to ride into the sunset. But not after this year though. Starting over again next year is counter productive to me and no continuity. Wentz is here for two more years. You keep him for two more years. At the end of 2024 you see where you at with both of them. This is when you do a reset with new GM, coach and QB if it comes to that. 

 

I am not good with contract stuff but do you have to extend him after this year or just honor the deal for year 2 and 3 that they gave him when they got him? If you have to extend him then you drop him instead of keeping him if he fails this year. 

 

The tricky wildcard is do we know if Howell is the future?  Things can change.  but if this season implodes -- this Qb class at the moment is considered special.

 

Some complain that this team never crashes at the right time where it fits a strong QB class.  At least in theory, this year crashing would be opportune on that front. 

 

I like Howell but to me he's a maybe.  Wentz is a maybe too.  I'd like to see that narrative play out.  Because if the draft geeks are right and this is a special class and we don't partake when we had a chance to do so, it would be an interesting twist to this team's sad history at the QB spot.

 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[88Comrade2000]

1 minute ago, zCommander said:

 

I will take it further with the script. I was thinking about this last night. Ron and Wentz need to ride into the sunset. But not after this year though. Starting over again next year is counter productive to me and no continuity. Wentz is here for two more years. You keep him for two more years. At the end of 2024 you see where you at with both of them. This is when you do a reset with new GM, coach and QB if it comes to that. 

 

I am not good with contract stuff but do you have to extend him after this year or just honor the deal for year 2 and 3 that they gave him when they got him? If you have to extend him then you drop him instead of keeping him if he fails this year. 

I disagree.  If we end up with a top 5 pick; you draft a qb.

 

As for the contract, we took on the remaining contract he signed with the Eagles when he got that big extension. 
His contract is not gauranteed; so he can be cut. We don’t have to touch it but if he’s on the roster in 23; we likely renegotiate to get some cap space.

[Tundra scout]

I watched a replay of all nine sacks and the majority were not on Wentz. I will say, his pocket presence was not the greatest that game, and he probably could have helped his oline a little bit more on a couple plays, but there were plenty of times the Eagles D got pressure on the edge and push down the middle. There isn’t really anywhere to run on those occasions. I personally would rather see Wentz rollout a few more times. He seems better on those plays.

[zCommander]

44 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The tricky wildcard is do we know if Howell is the future?  Things can change.  but if this season implodes -- this Qb class at the moment is considered special.

 

Some complain that this team never crashes at the right time where it fits a strong QB class.  At least in theory, this year crashing would be opportune on that front. 

 

I like Howell but to me he's a maybe.  Wentz is a maybe too.  I'd like to see that narrative play out.  Because if the draft geeks are right and this is a special class and we don't partake when we had a chance to do so, it would be an interesting twist to this team's sad history at the QB spot.

 

 

I wasn't even thinking about the class of 2023. You have twisted my arm...lol

 

Wetntz or our record has to be really bad to even land in the top 3 of the draft though. We will win just enough games to be not invited to the elite party though. We aren't that lucky. They will need to put up capital to go for the top 2 QB in the 2023 draft though.

 

If all else fails then Howell should be the next man up. Maybe he can turn out to be our diamond with one year sitting on the bench. Will see. 

 

55 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

I disagree.  If we end up with a top 5 pick; you draft a qb.

 

What do you do then? Trade Howell? Keep Taylor as the backup? Or keep both as the backup?

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

I wasn't even thinking about the class of 2023. You have twisted my arm...lol

 

Wetntz or our record has to be really bad to even land in the top 3 of the draft though. We will win just enough games to be not invited to the elite party though. We aren't that lucky. They will need to put up capital to go for the top 2 QB in the 2023 draft though.

 

If all else fails then Howell should be the next man up. Maybe he can turn out to be our diamond with one year sitting on the bench. Will see. 

 

 

In this draft if it lives to its hype you might not need a top 3 pick. 

 

 

 

 

 

[method man]

7 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

I wasn't even thinking about the class of 2023. You have twisted my arm...lol

 

Wetntz or our record has to be really bad to even land in the top 3 of the draft though. We will win just enough games to be not invited to the elite party though. We aren't that lucky. They will need to put up capital to go for the top 2 QB in the 2023 draft though.

 

If all else fails then Howell should be the next man up. Maybe he can turn out to be our diamond with one year sitting on the bench. Will see. 

 

 

What do you do then? Trade Howell? Keep Taylor as the backup? Or keep both as the backup?

You make Howell the backup. I like Howell but he lacks an elite trait, which you need at least one of to become a high end starting QB in the league. I feel Howell does a bit of everything well except he does hold on to the ball a bit too long and doesn’t process fast…traits for a good long term backup. There is value in that as you would save a few mil the next couple seasons

11 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

I wasn't even thinking about the class of 2023. You have twisted my arm...lol

 

Wetntz or our record has to be really bad to even land in the top 3 of the draft though. We will win just enough games to be not invited to the elite party though. We aren't that lucky. They will need to put up capital to go for the top 2 QB in the 2023 draft though.

 

If all else fails then Howell should be the next man up. Maybe he can turn out to be our diamond with one year sitting on the bench. Will see. 

 

 

What do you do then? Trade Howell? Keep Taylor as the backup? Or keep both as the backup?

A good example of how backward thinking Ron is is him making a point to win that meaningless game against the Giants to close the season. You lose that game and you are drafting either London, Wilson or Cross. 
 

Roseman got **** for forcing that loss to us to end 2020 but he has milked getting that higher pick into a number of assets

[88Comrade2000]

13 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

I wasn't even thinking about the class of 2023. You have twisted my arm...lol

 

Wetntz or our record has to be really bad to even land in the top 3 of the draft though. We will win just enough games to be not invited to the elite party though. We aren't that lucky. They will need to put up capital to go for the top 2 QB in the 2023 draft though.

 

If all else fails then Howell should be the next man up. Maybe he can turn out to be our diamond with one year sitting on the bench. Will see. 

 

 

What do you do then? Trade Howell? Keep Taylor as the backup? Or keep both as the backup?

Rookie , sign some other vet as backup- plenty of those and Sam. Plenty of teams with a young qb have a vet backup.

 

Taylor is going back to the couch.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

When it comes to QBs I'm fearful of sounding like Cowherd lol...more than willing to wait and see how the rest of the season goes for Wentz.

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Since Jimmy G was their first choice, that’s all u need to know.

 

Wilson was the first choice. 

 

Ron denied the report on Jimmy G. Sheehan who is tight with the Shanahans confirmed that Rivera was telling the truth on that front.

 

The previous year Stafford is who they wanted. 

[tomwvr]

2 hours ago, zCommander said:

 

I will take it further with the script. I was thinking about this last night. Ron and Wentz need to ride into the sunset. But not after this year though. Starting over again next year is counter productive to me and no continuity. Wentz is here for two more years. You keep him for two more years. At the end of 2024 you see where you at with both of them. This is when you do a reset with new GM, coach and QB if it comes to that. 

 

I am not good with contract stuff but do you have to extend him after this year or just honor the deal for year 2 and 3 that they gave him when they got him? If you have to extend him then you drop him instead of keeping him if he fails this year. 

Wentz has zero guaranteed dollars on his contract after this season. He can be cut with no cap hit.
Unless they win more than last season and look much better there is no reason to keep him on the roster.

[Cooleyfan1993]

Please Carson, PLEASE turn our season around…..I don’t want to have to search for yet another QB in the off-season  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Please Carson, PLEASE turn our season around…..I don’t want to have to search for yet another QB in the off-season  

I would prefer it go one way or the other.

 

Either mesh with Turner and play well enough we don’t need to concern ourselves with the draft.

 

Or give me a bunch more of the last 2 weeks so we can make the decision early to sit him down, see Howell, and keep our 2nd next year.

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I would prefer it go one way or the other.

 

Either mesh with Turner and play well enough we don’t need to concern ourselves with the draft.

 

Or give me a bunch more of the last 2 weeks so we can make the decision early to sit him down, see Howell, and keep our 2nd next year.

 

Yeah me too.   I want a definitive answer.  It would bother me to no end for example for the Giants to grab a franchise QB in this draft and we skip it because we think "maybe" as to Wentz.

 

As far as Howell goes I like him but not to the extent that I'd bypass a QB in this draft if they draft high. 

Edited September 28, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[wit33]

35 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah me too.   I want a definitive answer.  It would bother me to no end for example for the Giants to grab a franchise QB in this draft and we skip it because we think "maybe" as to Wentz.

 

 

Absolute worst case scenario. Continue to put a great deal of the offense on Wentz so he can flourish or fail. No in between. 
 

I fear it’s going to be a case of Wentz being okay and the staff who acquired him justifying another year. 

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

 

Absolute worst case scenario. Continue to put a great deal of the offense on Wentz so he can flourish or fail. No in between. 
 

I fear it’s going to be a case of Wentz being okay and the staff who acquired him justifying another year. 

 

Agree.  All or nothing.

 

There are multiple QBs in this draft who are of the types that I know you and i like which are dudes with mobility.  Guys like Young, Hooker, Richardson have special mobility.  This for the moment is shaping to be a nice draft for QBs. 

 

I don't want QB purgatory.  

 

Eagles are feasting with loading up their roster with a cheap QB with mobility.  Lions defenders actually said Hurts gave them more fits than Wentz because of his mobility and their pass rush couldn't feast the same way versus a dude with Hurts type of mobility. 

Edited September 28, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I don't want QB purgatory. 

Yep. That is the absolute worst place in the NFL to be. I hope Wentz is either REALLY good or REALLY bad. The last thing we need is a Jason Campbell type situation where we stagnate for 3+ years. Especially because nowadays even mediocre QBs are expensive.

[Carsonfanforlife]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

In this draft if it lives to its hype you might not need a top 3 pick. 

 

 

 

 

 

Lol that's about the worst highlight I've ever seen for a QB. I mean great run but everything up to that point was purely awful QB play. Stood flat footed, stared down his first read, did not see the open receiver and almost got sacked. Good lord if that's the next great NFL QB prospect the NFL's in trouble!

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, Carsonfanforlife said:

Lol that's about the worst highlight I've ever seen for a QB. I mean great run but everything up to that point was purely awful QB play. Stood flat footed, stared down his first read, did not see the open receiver and almost got sacked. Good lord if that's the next great NFL QB prospect the NFL's in trouble!

 

lol, i didn't watch the highlight video.  But I have watched him in some games -- he reminds me some of Hurts. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

51 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

 

Absolute worst case scenario. Continue to put a great deal of the offense on Wentz so he can flourish or fail. No in between. 
 

I fear it’s going to be a case of Wentz being okay and the staff who acquired him justifying another year. 

Absolute worst case in my eyes is 2-3 more years of the QB carousel. 

[zCommander]

6 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

Absolute worst case in my eyes is 2-3 more years of the QB carousel. 

 

But who is the coach selecting from the carousel?

[ThomasRoane]

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I agree with the point below.  I am far from all in on Wentz.  I don't think he's a top 10 QB.  He's probably in the 15-20 range. But part of that narrative is he will have his share of stinker games.  2 good games IMO, one bad one.  I'd let the script play out. 

 

You could also say Wentz has played 4 good quarters out of 12.  (1st & 4th vs Jax and 2nd half vs Detroit).  He's played well for 33% of the three games thus far.  

 

I knew the Wentz experiment was doomed in August when Dan Snyder proclaimed "we finally have ourselves a quarterback."  

 

I hope Wentz proves me wrong, but I don't think this will end well for him or RR.  I'll need to see more before I give up hope completely but right now, I see another one-read QB who suffers from PRS - Patrick Ramsey Syndrome.  What made him good in the early Philly years was his ability to shake off tackles.  Nobody is scared about him scrambling anymore.  The Dline doesn't have to worry about rush lane discipline.  All of their moves are on the table.  

 

The only way I see this working out is for the team to switch back to a run heavy/play action type attack on offense.  Limit his dropbacks and keep third downs short.  Take some shots off play action.  It's a shame because this might be the best receiving corps since the Fun Bunch.