The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[wit33]

11 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Impressive the amount of cliches he squeezed into this one video. 

 

11 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Some of Wentz's critics say that Wentz was never accurate and the reason why he will never be who he once was is because he had two superpowers in his heyday that could offset that but now he only has one of those superpowers. 

 

A. the long ball

 

B. Mobility -- that extends to off platform throws.

 

And now they believe he just has A.  Because B is a diluted version of what he once was where he doesn't have the same mobility and when he tries the off platform stuff ala Mahomes he makes too many bad decisions. 

 

I guess we are about to find out.  I am not worried about Rivera turning Wentz into a game manager judging by the reports from camp where we keep hearing there is a ton of vertical-deep throws.  Russell was talking about this the other day.  The Finlay crew, etc, saying its not a well kept secret that they are going deep a lot.

 

I do think Ballard isn't crazy for wanting though Wentz to do the layups though.  And Rivera hinting at the same.  I don't think that's anything to do with game managing but simply coaching him to take the checkdown when nothing is open.  That was one of Kurt Warner's rips on Wentz about him taking sacks against Jackonville and killing drives when he had wide open checkdowns that could have turned into big plays.  And to Wentz's credit, Wentz took Warner up on his offer to help him. 

 

That's been consistent with reports in practice which its the slow developing plays where Wentz keeps the ball longer, waiting for a WR to get open are the ones where he's more likely to stuggle with.   And according to some there judging by practice they believe during the season he'd be taking a bunch of sacks to the extent that even Montez Sweat is telling him to get rid of the ball.  But the quick game and designed deep balls is where he's done well for the most part. 

 

 

Game manager requires called deep shots, no argument from me. 
 

It doesn’t appear to be in Wentz’s DNA to be a game manager. I’m not one who believes all average to above QBs can be great game managers. Wentz seems like he’d be unhappy winning games 19-16. Too much potential resistance and bad energy going against the QBs inclinations as a QB. 
 

I lean towards Rivera taking the ball out of his hands and attempting to squeeze out games. I’ll say this, just when you think you got Ron pinned down, he will surprise you. 

 

10 hours ago, DJHJR86 said:

One of the common criticisms I have seen of him is that he thinks of himself as a Rodgers or Mahomes mentally, but he's nowhere near that physically.  It's a little alarming at how many times he refused the safe and easy throws last year.  

He’s actually very much with those guys physically. What am I missing? Everywhere else not close lol

Edited August 9, 2022 by wit33

[Skinsinparadise]

27 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

It doesn’t appear to be in Wentz’s DNA to be a game manager. I’m not one who believes all average to above QBs can be great game managers. Wentz seems like he’s be unhappy winning game 19-16. Too much potential resistance and bad energy going against the QBs inclinations as a QB. 
 

I lean towards Rivera taking the ball out of his hands and attempting to squeeze out games. I’ll say this, just when you think you got Ron pinned down, he will surprise you. 

 

 

I get the sense they dig Wentz's skill set and will be aggressive judging by camp reports.  And it almost feels like the narrative from them is the Eagles but more so the Colts were too conservative with him and they won't be.  Greg Cosell has talked about this a lot, he does a lot of Eagles stuff in the mix of his national stuff as for film watching.  His point is Wentz isn't a rythmn WCO type of passer even though that's been what he's played in throughout his career.  He thinks Scott Turner's Air Coryell style system suits Wentz's skill set better. 

 

But obviously, no way to know until it unfolds. 

Edited August 9, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[wit33]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I get the sense they dig Wentz's skill set and will be aggressive judging by camp reports.  And it almost feels like the narrative from them is the Eagles but more so the Colts were too conservative with him and they won't be.  Greg Cosell has talked about this a lot, he does a lot of Eagles stuff in the mix of his national stuff as for film watching.  His point is Wentz isn't a rythmn WCO type of passer even though that's been what he's played in throughout his career.  He thinks Scott Turner's Air Coryell style system suits Wentz's skill set better. 

 

But obviously, no way to know until it unfolds. 

This makes a ton of sense and provides more detail and football acumen to what I’ve been feeling about Wentz. The rhythm detail mentioned is so on point, and a big reason why he’ll struggle as a game manager. He’s no Alex Smith if you know what I mean  
 

Any chance you can access the Cosell stuff easily and post or repost if you get the chance?  
 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, wit33 said:

This makes a ton of sense and provides more detail and football acumen to what I’ve been feeling about Wentz. The rhythm detail mentioned is so on point, and a big reason why he’ll struggle as a game manager. He’s no Alex Smith if you know what I mean  
 

Any chance you can access the Cosell stuff easily and post or repost if you get the chance?  
 

 

 

Radio-podcast stuff.  Cosell talked about it some on an Eagles podcast he did if I recall with Adam Kaplan.    He was ironically on 106.7 today and discussed it. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Thinking Skins]

9 hours ago, bowhunter said:

I would think that is significant IF there is a difference in size/speed of the receivers. But some of this accuracy issue is beyond one of knowing where the receiver likes the ball. All three of our top receivers are in the 4.3-4.4 range, and all 3 fit within the 6' +/- range. If they are all running the route appropriately then there should only be a 4-6" difference in each pass thrown to them. Now if he is trying to lead a receiver on a go route, he might throw it a bit differently for  4.6 Harmon vs 4.2 Dotson. But the issue is a ball thrown 4 feet too high or into the dirt. That doesn't have a darn thing to do with chemistry, that's a mental/mechanics thing.

*disclaimer, I was a Defensive End in high school, not a QB. (Probably because I threw a lot of footballs 4 feet too high lol)

I mean, you hear McLaurin addressing this in his interviews. He talks about 'landmarks". Thats all about how he's running the route. Its differences in him vs Dotson vs Samuel vs Sims. He has a certain way he runs them which is different than others and the QBs have to learn it. And one of the reasons I think that Sims may not be considered as having that potential thing is because his routes aren't as crisp (neither are the backup TEs according to Ron). But I think this is all a thing of practice time together and we'll see them continue to get better. 

[Koolblue13]

I completely appreciate that we have Wentz, because it could be so much worse.

 

[Cooleyfan1993]

^ are they really signing him? I saw that same post on a FB page called “The Sports Troll” which posts fake stuff….this looks a lot like that 

[Koolblue13]

This is a pretty good watch. I'm pretty excited to see Wentz in this offense. He definitely throws the ball and lets his pass catchers go get it, for better or worse.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Complement to Ohio State but I'd be upset if I was a Bears WR

 

 

 

[Bifflog]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Complement to Ohio State but I'd be upset if I was a Bears WR

 

 

 

 

Gotta imagine that's taken out of context somehow...

[Koolblue13]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Complement to Ohio State but I'd be upset if I was a Bears WR

 

 

 

I hope he insults his offensive line next

[KDawg]

22 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Complement to Ohio State but I'd be upset if I was a Bears WR

 

 

 

As a Justin Fields guy, and knowing full well he meant it as more of a compliment to the OSU guys than a diss to his guys:

 

🤦‍♂️

[redskinss]

How much do you trust the word of "ballsack" sports though?

Are they reputable?

I haven't seen that anywhere else.

[Carsonfanforlife]

Yeah it's fake. Lot of fake **** on social media that is believed by the gullible sheeple. Big reason this country is in a shambles right now.

[Skinsinparadise]

43 minutes ago, KDawg said:

As a Justin Fields guy, and knowing full well he meant it as more of a compliment to the OSU guys than a diss to his guys:

 

🤦‍♂️

 

I like Fields, too.  He's a good dude -- i am sure he didn't mean it in a bad way but it was the wrong thing to say.  But i am sure it will all be good. 

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Complement to Ohio State but I'd be upset if I was a Bears WR

 

 

 

I just read this again. Absolutely no way that’s real. 

[ExoDus84]

3 hours ago, redskinss said:

How much do you trust the word of "ballsack" sports though?

 

I'd believe their word over Nutsack Weekly, that's for sure.

[Cooleyfan1993]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I like Fields, too.  He's a good dude -- i am sure he didn't mean it in a bad way but it was the wrong thing to say.  But i am sure it will all be good. 

Well, it WOULD have been the wrong thing to say, if it was at all an actual quote. However, like The Sports Troll, Ballsack Sports isn’t a reliable source 😂 

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Well, it WOULD have been the wrong thing to say, if it was at all an actual quote. However, like The Sports Troll, Ballsack Sports isn’t a reliable source 😂 

 

Oh OK, lol, seemed a bit wild, I guess I shoud have known. 

[Koolblue13]

I don't know if y'all have looked at the offensive players on the Bears, but reputable or not, he's right.

4 hours ago, redskinss said:

How much do you trust the word of "ballsack"

I trust mine more than my head, heart or mainstream media. 

[Conn]

1 hour ago, ExoDus84 said:

 

I'd believe their word over Nutsack Weekly, that's for sure.

Neither can live up to Taint Quarterly!

[TheShredder]

Turner must put Carson into the best situation for what he does best.

I'd say that letting him be him within the scheme will pay out.

Let's do what Engineers do when finding answers and go to the end and work back (August 11, 2016):

 

Carson Wentz: Strengths and weaknesses through the first two weeks of training camp. (8.11.2016)

https://www.phillyvoice.com/carson-wentz-strengths-and-weaknesses-through-first-two-weeks-training-camp/

Strengths

Strengths

• Size: At 6'5, 237, Wentz is the biggest of the Eagles' quarterbacks, and has prototypical size for the position in the NFL.

• Arm Strength: Again, of the Eagles' quarterbacks, there's little question that Wentz has the strongest arm of the group. He delivers deep passes with ease and can put the ball on a line on intermediate throws.

• Athleticism: There is a wide gap between Wentz and the other Eagles' quarterbacks here. Wentz is a threat to run. He can escape the pocket and hurt you with his legs. While you won't see him barrel over defensive backs in a training camp setting since hitting the quarterback is off limits, that's a part of his game as well.

• Aggressiveness: By far, Wentz has taken more shots down the field than either Bradford or Daniel. Taking risks isn't necessarily a strength unless you're actually producing big plays, and in fact can be a negative if those risks are producing turnovers. However, I'm of the belief that the quarterback has to be able to make difficult throws down the field to be successful in this league, so for now, we'll chalk up Wentz's willingness to let it rip as a strength.

• Making throws while climbing the pocket: When he senses the outside pass rush closing in, Wentz does a great job climbing the pocket while maintaining his vision. Typically, when quarterbacks are forced to quickly move up in the pocket, their vision will narrow to the middle of the field, making them less likely to make throws to the sideline. Wentz, however, still uses the entire field when he steps up in the pocket. He can contort his body on the run and throw sideline to sideline. That puts the defense in a difficult spot. They'll have to respect his running ability while still covering the entire field.

• Improvisation: I've been impressed by Wentz's ability to make something out of nothing. For example, there have been a few occasions in which he's fielded a shotgun snap off the ground, popped up, and quickly delivered a completed a pass, when other quarterbacks might have been content to just jump on the ball or try to get outside the tackle box and throw it away.

• Throwing on the run: This is where Wentz has made some "wow" plays during camp, and I believe it's because he's stopped thinking momentarily and is just playing on instinct. Wentz can throw with velocity while going to his right or left. He's not always pinpoint accurate while on the run (as most quarterbacks aren't), but there's big play potential here.

Weaknesses

• Consistent accuracy: Wentz has often been inaccurate during training camp. When he is off, he is most commonly overthrowing his receivers, missing them high. Doug Pederson attributed that to mechanics, timing, and not yet completely seeing what he's supposed to be seeing. In other words, when Wentz has a more solid grasp of where his receivers will be and what opposing defenses are trying to do to him, the thinking is that Wentz will settle in and become more accurate like he mostly was at North Dakota State. But for now, improvement in this area is clearly needed.

• The wobble: Wentz's passes have often wobbled. They still get there, but the wobble makes them more difficult to catch. When the weather becomes harsher, wobbly footballs are more prone to dying in the wind. Again, this is not something Wentz did much in college. Pederson attributed it to Wentz not yet being fully being up to speed mentally and believes the wobble will wane.

• Locking in: There have been times when Wentz will zero in on a receiver, allowing the defense to anticipate where he's going with the football.

[Skinsinparadise]

Been reading some of the fan tweets the last couple of days on twitter, wild stuff.

 

I think they are picking on the wrong target.  The local media has been IMO pretty balanced on Wentz with some exceptions like Sheehan but even Sheehan lately has come around.  It's the national media that has crapped on Wentz.

 

But I see some fans think that the local media was making it up that Wentz has struggled early in camp because they are reading current reports ironically from the same local media saying that Wentz has come on strong of late.   

 

It's an odd narrative from those fans.  For starters i don't think the local guys were just making it up considering some fans who were there and people who work for the team have said the same thing.   But the kicker to me is the same local media are the ones saying that Wentz is playing well lately in practice -- so its really odd that some on twitter are running with those same local reports and hanging the local reporters for that very positive narrative that they are bringing out -- that said fans wouldn't have known if those same reporters weren't touting Wentz now.

 

Strange stuff.       It's the national media, not so much local, that see Wentz as a punchline.  Some in the local media have actualy made fun of the national media (I've mentioned this here) for how they are over the top in their criticism of Wentz. 

Edited August 11, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[mhd24]

19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Been reading some of the fan tweets the last couple of days on twitter, wild stuff.

 

I think they are picking on the wrong target.  The local media has been IMO pretty balanced on Wentz with some exceptions like Sheehan but even Sheehan lately has come around.  It's the national media that has crapped on Wentz.

 

But I see some fans think that the local media was making it up that Wentz has struggled early in camp because they are reading current reports ironically from the same local media saying that Wentz has come on strong of late.   

 

It's an odd narrative from those fans.  For starters i don't think the local guys were just making it up considering some fans who were there and people who work for the team have said the same thing.   But the kicker to me is the same local media are the ones saying that Wentz is playing well lately in practice -- so its really odd that some on twitter are running with those same local reports and hanging the local reporters for that very positive narrative that they are bringing out -- that said fans wouldn't have known if those same reporters weren't touting Wentz now.

 

Strange stuff.       It's the national media, not so much local, that see Wentz as a punchline.  Some in the local media have actualy made fun of the national media (I've mentioned this here) for how they are over the top in their criticism of Wentz. 

 

 

Yeah.  Like, if Wentz gives us the same numbers as last year for the Colts, we'd all be THRILLED.  He'd be that much of an upgrade.