The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

That was a pretty cool interview. I like that he describes the offense as aggressive and explosive. He seems giddy like a kid waiting for christmas. 

 

He also seems really really happy to be back in the East.

 

They just aired a Ron interview with the NFL Network, makes me pumped for the season.  Ron comes off likeable and positive as always.

 

He was jazzed about Wentz and he thinks he has the weapons needed to be successful here.  He thinks Chase and the defense rebounds. 

 

I am not 100% sure about what games i am headed to this season but its very likely going to include the Indy game on the road -- that one should be wild.

 

I liked their draft.  I am not 100% sure about Wentz but I like his upside and at a minimum believe he's a major upgrade over Heinicke. 

 

I think the schedule should be much better, lol except for this..

 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[NickyJ]

I found a random picture of Carson Wentz in a Football Team jersey. Everything about it hurts me.

 

Edited May 13, 2022 by NickyJ

[Koolblue13]

That's one nice thing about Wentz. If the play breaks down, everyone doesn't have to come screaming back to the loS, the can just go long and get open.

 

Sip, I'd love to hit a game this year. Not sure where. Wish we played at Atlanta this year. Jags game is just a little too early for me.

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

That's one nice thing about Wentz. If the play breaks down, everyone doesn't have to come screaming back to the loS, the can just go long and get open.

 

Sip, I'd love to hit a game this year. Not sure where. Wish we played at Atlanta this year. Jags game is just a little too early for me.

 

As for road games, Vegas was a no brainer for me last year.  SF intrigued me this time but I tried talking my wife into doing that one over Christmas and no go for that.  😀

 

Indy or the Texans games fit my schedule the best.  I've been to both Indy and Houston before and IMO Indy >> Houston.

 

Texans game should be a win so that's the upside for that one.  Indy to me feels a bit iffy but boy would it feel great to be there if they won. 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

20 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

As for road games, Vegas was a no brainer for me last year.  SF intrigued me this time but I tried talking my wife into doing that one over Christmas and no go for that.  😀

 

Indy or the Texans games fit my schedule the best.  I've been to both Indy and Houston before and IMO Indy >> Houston.

 

Texans game should be a win so that's the upside for that one.  Indy to me feels a bit iffy but boy would it feel great to be there if they won. 

 

 

I can direct flight to Florida, Atlanta and Charlotte, outside of that it's whatever. That Jags game might be fun. I have some friends that are Jags fans. 

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I can direct flight to Florida, Atlanta and Charlotte, outside of that it's whatever. That Jags game might be fun. I have some friends that are Jags fans. 

 

I saw the Jags opener years back, the one where RG3 got hurt, Kirk came in and they smoked them.  It was a lot of fun.

 

It's probably one of the few games where it will be dominated by Commander fans.

 

I am toying with the Philly game at home.  I think its funny how much the road game is played up against Philly as if that's the real interersting one from the Wentz angle where Wentz will be heckled by Philly fans.  I think though they are underestimating the odds that it actually happens in the home game, too though.  Eagle fans show up well at Fedex

[Llevron]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think the schedule should be much better, lol except for this..

 

 

 

Damn we got hosed here lol. Like we are being punished. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

On 5/12/2022 at 9:29 AM, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I get that some of these guys are really in the bag for Heineke and all that...

 

But it couldn't be more obvious that he has the most value here, where he's came up in the system, played in it, etc.  Why some want to believe he could be used as a trade piece is a bit bonkers to me.  There have been plenty of guys that had decent stints coming in for the starter, of whom other teams weren't interested in the next offseason.  Part of what held us back (besides the anchor that is Dan Snyder) from trading for an upper echelon QB is that we didn't have one other teams coveted.  We've heard nothing about anyone calling for Heineke, even after we drafted Howell.  There's a difference between him having value here where he knows the offense and personnel vs. another team investing in and grooming him into their system.

He’s a lot like Todd Collins from back in the day, he was super valuable to (OC we hired from KC who’s name I’m forgetting) but was less valuable to everybody else.  He knew that system and even though he wasn’t really physically gifted, (though he had a bigger arm than TH) he could execute the offense with.

 

But he didn’t get a lot of attention after that because he really was a product of that system.  
 

Damn, I can’t remember the OC’s name.  And I’m going to be stubborn and not look it up.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

39 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

He’s a lot like Todd Collins from back in the day, he was super valuable to (OC we hired from KC who’s name I’m forgetting) but was less valuable to everybody else.  He knew that system and even though he wasn’t really physically gifted, (though he had a bigger arm than TH) he could execute the offense with.

 

But he didn’t get a lot of attention after that because he really was a product of that system.  
 

Damn, I can’t remember the OC’s name.  And I’m going to be stubborn and not look it up.

 

Al Saunders, I believe...

[Voice_of_Reason]

9 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

Al Saunders, I believe...

Yes.  That’s him.   
 

with his 800 page playbook.

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

That was a pretty cool interview. I like that he describes the offense as aggressive and explosive. He seems giddy like a kid waiting for christmas. 

 

He also seems really really happy to be back in the East.

I said this a while ago: The Pederson offense is more WCO style with a ton of structure and timing and such. 
 

The Turner offense has always been predicated on stretching the field off of a strong running game. But it dials up a lot more deep shots to stretch the defense.

 

Its possible the Turner (which is based on the Air Coryell system, is just a better fit for Wentz. It will allow him a lot of deep shots.

 

We’ll see. 

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I said this a while ago: The Pederson offense is more WCO style with a ton of structure and timing and such. 
 

The Turner offense has always been predicated on stretching the field off of a strong running game. But it dials up a lot more deep shots to stretch the defense.

 

Its possible the Turner (which is based on the Air Coryell system, is just a better fit for Wentz. It will allow him a lot of deep shots.

 

We’ll see. 

I definitely think it's a great fit. Wentz is giddy with weapons and our commitment to surrounding him with talent. Should be a lot of fun.

[Skinsinparadise]

Athletic

 

 

[bird_1972]

17 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I said this a while ago: The Pederson offense is more WCO style with a ton of structure and timing and such. 
 

The Turner offense has always been predicated on stretching the field off of a strong running game. But it dials up a lot more deep shots to stretch the defense.

 

Its possible the Turner (which is based on the Air Coryell system, is just a better fit for Wentz. It will allow him a lot of deep shots.

 

We’ll see. 

 

I hope the plan this year is to establish a power run game (a strength of ours last season) and let Wentz operate off the play action. Would be a great way to signal that the team isn't depending on him to carry them - especially given the concerns about his confidence.

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

[Athletic article about revenge games]

 

When we play the Colts, I hope our DEs are back in 2020 form and pin their ears back to go after Matt Ryan. With Mathis now on the DL, I hope that means we can accomplish this while still providing some protection against Jonathan Tayler and the run game.

[Voice_of_Reason]

18 minutes ago, bird_1972 said:

hope the plan this year is to establish a power run game (a strength of ours last season) and let Wentz operate off the play action. Would be a great way to signal that the team isn't depending on him to carry them - especially given the concerns about his confidence.

I think they’re going to be a pass-first offense but with a dependence on the run.  
 

The other issue I saw with the colts last year Is because they were a run first team, the passing situations were almost always in high leverage situations.

 

You want to give Wentz the ability to throw the ball in situations where the defense doesn’t know what’s coming. 
 

I am subscribing to the theory both Pederson and Reich tried to contain Wentz and that was the wrong approach.  Just let it fly.  I want to see him with 5000 yards, 35 TDs and 12 INTs.  I’ll take a few extra INTs if it means they are pushing the ball down the field and threatening defenses.  Which we really haven’t seen effectively since 2016 with Kurt, DJax and Garcon.  

[FootballZombie]

1 hour ago, bird_1972 said:

I hope the plan this year is to establish a power run game (a strength of ours last season) and let Wentz operate off the play action. Would be a great way to signal that the team isn't depending on him to carry them - especially given the concerns about his confidence.

 

I think there is above 50% chance that we are still going to employ the choke the game out method of stiff defense, and trying to pound the air out of the ball. Regardless of QB limitations before hand, that was how our roster was constructed to play.

 

We will be even better equipped to deploy this style this year w/ the addition of the rookie big RB, and a healthy Samuel who will also get several carries a game.

 

I'm not expecting massive increases in the passing attack. I'd expect something similar to what the Colts ran last year.

 

 

[Conn]

I’m not sure where people get the idea that this team is built to run the ball and choke the clock. That’s how we won our best games the last few years because our QB play sucked and that’s how you manage risk and live in the margins of error of better teams so that you have a chance to steal games you shouldn’t.

 

But this defense is built to pin its ears back and attack. This offensive line is one of the best pass blocking units in the league. We have a lot of resources and cap dollars (current and projected) put into explosive receiving weapons at WR, RB, and even TE when Logan Thomas is healthy. 
 

Then add the investment and screaming need for Wentz, who is a risk taker and gunslinger, not a game manager. 
 

This roster is built to build a lead and then hold it. We can go the other way, grind clock and slow play close games. But I think the “dream” is that Wentz hits his ceiling and Turner lets him loose, building a lead that Robinson and Gibson can punish defenses with as our defense attacks QBs in obvious passing situations. 

[bird_1972]

19 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

I think there is above 50% chance that we are still going to employ the choke the game out method of stiff defense, and trying to pound the air out of the ball. Regardless of QB limitations before hand, that was how our roster was constructed to play.

 

We will be even better equipped to deploy this style this year w/ the addition of the rookie big RB, and a healthy Samuel who will also get several carries a game.

 

I'm not expecting massive increases in the passing attack. I'd expect something similar to what the Colts ran last year.

 

 

 

I really hope Robinson ends up adding a lot to this offense. Would also like Dyami to take the next step, especially with a QB that can air it out for him. It plays to his strengths.

12 minutes ago, Conn said:

I’m not sure where people get the idea that this team is built to run the ball and choke the clock. That’s how we won our best games the last few years because our QB play sucked and that’s how you manage risk and live in the margins of error of better teams so that you have a chance to steal games you shouldn’t.

 

But this defense is built to pin its ears back and attack. This offensive line is one of the best pass blocking units in the league. We have a lot of resources and cap dollars (current and projected) put into explosive receiving weapons at WR, RB, and even TE when Logan Thomas is healthy. 
 

Then add the investment and screaming need for Wentz, who is a risk taker and gunslinger, not a game manager. 
 

This roster is built to build a lead and then hold it. We can go the other way, grind clock and slow play close games. But I think the “dream” is that Wentz hits his ceiling and Turner lets him loose, building a lead that Robinson and Gibson can punish defenses with as our defense attacks QBs in obvious passing situations. 

 

My concern is that Logan Thomas may not play to start the year given his injury. Not sure how much we can count on him to contribute meaningfully. Given that, we lack a large target on the O unless you are banking on Cam Sims somehow becoming a huge favorite of Wentz's given his love of big WRs. That may end up being the case, but Sims hasn't shown so far that he's anything better than JAG.

[FootballZombie]

26 minutes ago, bird_1972 said:

I really hope Robinson ends up adding a lot to this offense. Would also like Dyami to take the next step, especially with a QB that can air it out for him. It plays to his strengths.

 

I think he was brought in for a reason. He is the perfect kind of back for our situation and what he could bring was a badly missing element that was obvious all last year.

Given our propensity to pound the rock, I forsee both our backs having great years. Not only will they have the opportunity to put up numbers, I see them excelling.

 

I'm hopeful for Dyami, but less confident in his production than the backs, mainly due to opportunity. I'm naturally assuming he will be behind Terry, Samuel and the new rookie, so it will be tough to make a major impact at the WR4 spot. Unless an injury occurs, or he "eats" someone ahead of him, WR4s don't get the the oppo to put up numbers very often. He can certainly do a lot better than last season's 160yrds tho. At pure WR4 if he gets 350 or 400 he is doing great. I gotta believe Terry, Samuel, Rookie, Name-a-TE, McK and Gibby outpace him on recs, so there is only so much pie. 

Edited May 14, 2022 by FootballZombie

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[Conn]

1 hour ago, bird_1972 said:

My concern is that Logan Thomas may not play to start the year given his injury. Not sure how much we can count on him to contribute meaningfully. Given that, we lack a large target on the O unless you are banking on Cam Sims somehow becoming a huge favorite of Wentz's given his love of big WRs. That may end up being the case, but Sims hasn't shown so far that he's anything better than JAG.

I share similar concerns about Logan Thomas and think anything we get from him this year is a bonus. He lives off of his athleticism, and while his “mileage” as a player is low he’s not young and that effects healing. 
 

But I’m high on Bates as a Jack Doyle type of sneaky receiving threat who can also block, and Cole Turner can play a role as a big slot, too. It’s certainly no longer a strength for us but I’m not convinced it’s a weakness either. 

[Mrshadow008]

5 hours ago, Conn said:

I share similar concerns about Logan Thomas and think anything we get from him this year is a bonus. He lives off of his athleticism, and while his “mileage” as a player is low he’s not young and that effects healing. 
 

But I’m high on Bates as a Jack Doyle type of sneaky receiving threat who can also block, and Cole Turner can play a role as a big slot, too. It’s certainly no longer a strength for us but I’m not convinced it’s a weakness either. 

So I've put a lot of thought into the Logan Thomas situation. And I do think there's a way for him to to still help this team and be effective even if the athleticism isnt all the way back at the beginning of the year. Let's look at what Logan does have even if hes not quite all the way back from an athleticism stand point right away. Logan is still a big body at 6'6 250, Logan still has an extremely high football IQ, and he still has really good hands. Where is the area of the field where we missed him most last year? and where is the area of the field where his athleticism (speed) isnt going to give him as much of an advantage anyways due to a condensed field? The redzone. I do think Logan could still be a highly effective redzone target early even if hes a half a step slower to start the season. That would also allow him to build back gradually while also still helping the team and allowing Bates and Turner to get important snaps throughout games to help them continue to develop

[goskins10]

On 5/13/2022 at 7:41 PM, Voice_of_Reason said:

I said this a while ago: The Pederson offense is more WCO style with a ton of structure and timing and such. 
 

The Turner offense has always been predicated on stretching the field off of a strong running game. But it dials up a lot more deep shots to stretch the defense.

 

Its possible the Turner (which is based on the Air Coryell system, is just a better fit for Wentz. It will allow him a lot of deep shots.

 

We’ll see. 

 

Along with being a better fit scheme-wize, this team has a better Oline and more weapons. Even without those things Wentz had a decent season last year. People want to extrapolate the entire season down to the last two games, act like he was that QB all year. that's just the Colts trying to sell thier fanbase on why they are on thier 6th QB in 6 yrs and why they have not beaten Jacksonville in Jacksonville since 2016. It's all Carson's fault - lol.  Granted, he coughed up a fur-ball, but he could have played a great game and the team still likely loses. 

 

Wentz has his best chance right now. It will not get any better for him. So either the Colts were right or Ron and team were right. Just like Daniel Jones in NY, there are no excuses left. Put up or shut up. I think he will have a good to very good year but I tend to lean optimistic. It should be fun to watch either way. Scott Turner's off like his dad's is not one to sit in neutral and grind things out. They want a controlled ground game but really push the ball in the air. Guys will be open. They were open last year. Taylor just could not make Ds pay for it. Wentz can. Will he? Remains to be seen. But I like his and the teams chances. 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Was listening to Fortier from the WP on 106.7 yesterday and he suggested and I agree if i am trying to be balanced on Wentz which is that this slate of games should be an interesting slate for Wentz, the revenge tour games because of his reputation for pressing, implying he's not at his best in big spots.

 

As I've mentioned, i am jazzed about Wentz but I am not ignoring that narrative about him, and the two hurdles for him which are consistent from friend and foe of seem to be: wild swings of play from game to game or sometimes within the same game and he's not a clutch gamer type of player.  If he could somehow mitigate those two issues I think we got a franchise QB.   And as I mentioned Wentz's comments about the slate of games at least indicates that he's aware of those two issues.

 

I think his supporting cast is the best he's had in his career.   

 

From listening to Keim, they love the idea that they can stretch the field in ways they couldn't with Heinicke.  But one thing he's mentioned multiple times is that Heinicke struggled with quick shallow throws up the middle -- crosses, slants, etc, they believed the reason for it was Heinicke couldn't see those routes develop well because of his height and in turn they believe Wentz will be night and day better on that front. 

Edited May 15, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

To follow up with my point, when Sheehan likes to say people are naive when they latch on to the idea that he was just a random irrational move by Irsay, IMO based on listening to narratives -- as to Sheehan's point its yes and no but mostly no. 

 

Yes in that apparently it wasn't purely about Irsay reacting to one game.  And yes in that he wasn't completely on an island about it as to their FO (apparently some of Colts FO brass had concerns and it was a mixed opinion among the brass). According to a Colts reporter, the narrative that Wentz doesn't come through in big spots was building throughout the season and the Jacksonville game was the culmination of their frustration with him on that front -- versus they loved most of what they saw from Carson on that front but that game alone changed their narrative about him in one fell swoop.  

 

But to me the odd overreaction for Irsay is I gather hearing from players in that locker room that Wentz wasn't this gregarious mobilize the troops type of player which he seem to find unforgivable.   Just seems really strange that it was some major revelation to him.  Also as Keim likes to say the context with the Colts probably didn't favor Carson on that front.  Rivers for example wasn't that great as a player, for the season they had him but they did still made the playoffs and Rivers is one of those locker room leaders on steroids type.     Ryan is kind of like that, too.  So Wentz is somewhat sandwiched in to that backdrop considering that's who preceded him and are succeeding him.  

 

I'd presume Reich told Irsay and company that Wentz isn't a locker room leader type, that's not what he majors in.   You'd figure they'd know that coming in.  Not every QB has that kind of personality.  Granted plenty do but I'd guess give our take 25% or so of the starting QBs aren't like that.  And IMO its not a fatal problem -- if you win, the QB's personality IMO doesn't become an issue.  And digesting Wentz there is nothing wrong with his personality, its just that he's more of an introvert than an extrovert type.

 

I agree with Keim that i don't think his personality will likely be an issue here.  This team has a lot of more quiet-introverted types.  I think Wentz blends in better here.  And as for lack of clutch play, IMO that's a mindset.  And the first way to fix any problem is to be aware that it is a problem -- and judging by Wentz's comments about the season, he comes off like he gets it.  And i know he had one year in Philly where he was touted for some clutch play so IMO he has it in him. 

Edited May 15, 2022 by Skinsinparadise