The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, KDawg said:

That’s entirely too much to give up for a guy who many never play another down in the NFL. Some of you are wild in here

 

Agree.  I've head there might be interest from this team in different podcasts but ONLY if cleared of legal issues. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

That’s entirely too much to give up for a guy who many never play another down in the NFL. Some of you are wild in here

I’m sure he’s going to play again. No way is he exiled. And heading into the off-season the asking price was presumably 3 1’s and a player. Maybe that’s not what ends up being the offer, but 1/2/1 and player on final year of his deal seems reasonable to me. 

[DWinzit]

19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

A.  He likely isn't traded

B.  Might be traded though in a swap for a better QB

C.  They might reconsider if blown away by a trade offer

seems about the same in Seattle and Vegas as well as Houston wanting to be blown away.

 

As much as I want a top QB in Washington, current believed market is beginning to give me cold feet on a trade. Costs are beyond silly.

Edited February 20, 2022 by DWinzit

[JamesMadisonSkins]

3 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

seems about the same in Seattle and Vegas as well as Houston wanting to be blown away.

 

As much as I want a top QB in Washington, current believed market is beginning to get cold feet on a trade. Costs are beyond silly.

well Houston has to trade theirs. The rest don’t. 

[DWinzit]

Just now, JamesMadisonSkins said:

well Houston has to trade theirs. The rest don’t. 

Yup, but he comes with mega of field questions

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

seems about the same in Seattle and Vegas as well as Houston wanting to be blown away.

 

As much as I want a top QB in Washington, current believed market is beginning to get cold feet on a trade. Costs are beyond silly.

 

With Seattle I get it. Wilson is an elite QB, if you trade a dude like that its unique.  Houston I get it too -- even more unique considering Watson's age.

 

With Vegas, I somehwat get, who are you replacing Carr with?  I know some on this thread seem to have the take of so what, just become bad until you find that dude in the draft.  But reality IMO doesn't work that way.  Coaches aren't typically forgiven for bad seasons but especially not multiple bad seasons.  

 

As for the Browns, they have a loaded roster and don't seem to want to start again from scratch at the QB spot.  Seems like their main desire would be to package Mayfield in a trade for a better QB.

Deshaun Watson, Houston Texans

Graziano: There are factors at play here that don't apply in any of these other cases, and I don't want to minimize those. There are 22 active lawsuits against Watson with allegations of sexual assault and sexually inappropriate behavior during massage sessions. We don't yet know the outcome of the lawsuits. We do know he has a deposition coming up, and there's some hope that things could at least start moving toward a resolution after that happens. But we don't know how much legal trouble he'll end up in or the potential discipline from the league. And until teams know that, it's going to be hard for the Texans to get what they need to get in return for Watson.

 

Sarah Barshop, Texans reporter: The timing will be interesting for general manager Nick Caserio, who has made it clear by not trading Watson before the start of the 2021 season or leading up to the trade deadline that he's not going to get a deal done just to get the quarterback off the roster. As you said, Dan, there are still so many questions surrounding Watson's ability to play football next season. If the lawsuits are not settled, a trial date would not even be set until the beginning of May.

Watson also is waiting to find out whether he will face criminal charges. The Texans don't expect Watson to ever play for them again, but the closer it gets to the start of free agency and the draft, the more difficult it becomes to get a deal done that satisfies both Watson -- remember he has a no-trade clause -- and the team.

 

Fowler: Yeah, I agree that the Texans won't panic. They've waited this long. But it was easier to keep him under contract for $10.5 million last year. This year, the salary balloons to $35 million. No roster bonus is due in the short term, but still, that's something the Texans will want to get off their books eventually. If Watson's case gets resolved by April -- this is a big "if," but his deposition is scheduled for Feb. 22 -- then teams will have a clearer picture of what's next. Will the league suspend him? The team pursuing him will want to know. As I reported Wednesday, Tampa Bay is a team to watch. The Bucs have shown they aren't afraid of risk, and they want to keep open their championship window.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/33303269/projecting-2022-nfl-quarterback-trade-market-aaron-rodgers-russell-wilson-others-change-teams-everything-know

Edited February 20, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

11 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

I’m sure he’s going to play again. No way is he exiled. And heading into the off-season the asking price was presumably 3 1’s and a player. Maybe that’s not what ends up being the offer, but 1/2/1 and player on final year of his deal seems reasonable to me. 

No way he is exiled? The guy has over 20 accusations. If he is proven guilty just once the guy is basically in the “nope” tier. I’d give up a second rounder for him. And if he’s cleared we just got a franchise QB. Houston won’t do that and I wouldn’t do more. 
 

It’s reckless and wild and irresponsible to offer anything near what you’re saying for a guy who is in the position Watson is.

 

Wild.

[Est.1974]

5 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

well Houston has to trade theirs. The rest don’t. 

Agree, Houston are seriously backed into a corner with Watson pending those off field issues being closed out.

[DWinzit]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

With Seattle I get it. Wilson is an elite QB, if you trade a dude like that its unique.  Houston I get it too -- even more unique considering Watson's age.

 

With Vegas, I somehwat get, who are you replacing Carr with?  I know some on this thead say so what and just become bad until you find that dude in the draft.  But reality IMO doesn't work that way.  Coaches aren't typically forgiven for bad seasons but especially not multiple bad seasons.  

 

As for the Browns, they have a loaded roster and don't seem to want to start again from scratch at the QB spot.  Seems like their main desire would be to package Mayfield in a trade for a better QB.

I likes what the team did last year in going at Stafford. They identified him as THE target for them and went hard at him with a legit offer that actually was the best offer. 

While they didn't get him, the set their goal and max price willing to pay. My concern is the market on these guys is higher and the team will not set a max price in their head...they will just keep adding assets to the pile until the other team says okay. That scares the heck out of me in trying to move forward with what will be left for team to move forward with

 

Place offers on all of them and if they ask for more, move to the next one. I'd rather they go into next year with a rookie they really like a Tyrod Taylor/Brissett even if they can't get a Trubisky/Mariota. Part of problem is not only are they giving away the farm, they are still another QB if they do not want TH as their QB2

 

 

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

21 minutes ago, KDawg said:

No way he is exiled?

 

Wild.

I understand there’s unknowns here but this has been out for over a year at this point. If he was about to be kicked out or suspended for a year + we would have gotten some smoke with that. I’m not minimizing these allegations but if he were about to go to jail or get suspended for a really long time I feel like we’d have some breadcrumbs to indicate that. And so far anything the media has said is teams want to know before trading away huge assets. Which to me seems more like “this isn’t good but it’ll get settled out soon” as opposed to anything more severe 

[HigSkin]

Rut row, it's a female judge that Watson is set to appear before....

 

 

[Burgold]

I still say Watson is a no-go for Washington. Washington itself is under a sexual harassment cloud that is just beginning to unfold. The team can't say they are being serious about culture change and trade for someone with 22 complaints about them filed in court.

 

Sure, Dan and Deshaun can go out to a strip club for a beer, but that's about as far as their relationship can go.

[Ball Security]

Watson is supposed to get like $35M this year, right?  For NFL contracts, do they just get paid in season?  In other words, Watson doesn’t get paid until September instead of March, right?  Just trying to get a better understanding of Houston’s timeline.

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Fowler: Yeah, I agree that the Texans won't panic. They've waited this long. But it was easier to keep him under contract for $10.5 million last year. This year, the salary balloons to $35 million.

This is exactly my point. That is fully guaranteed money. Another 37mil fully guarantees in March due for payment 2023.

 

It was one thing shelving him in 2021 due to the much lower cost, but until he gets nailed on those charges all of that cash is a contractual obligation hanging around the Texans neck.

 

They can’t cut him really. He also has a no trade clause. They need to sell low to a team willing to assume that risk. Offering future conditional picks is how I would go with that.

[Renegade7]

Jus so we're all in the same page...

 

 

I've said my piece in regards to trading for a QB, let alone Watson.

 

At this point I'm convinced the starting QB next season is going to be Wilson or Watson anyway.

[Redskins 2021]

 

I dont think any team has made an offer for Watson as of right now. End of March I think texans need to give him a big bonus so they really want to make a trade now.

[Est.1974]

5 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

 

I dont think any team has made an offer for Watson as of right now. End of March I think texans need to give him a big bonus so they really want to make a trade now.

When we get to the 20th March 2022, Watson will have 72mil in fully guaranteed money owing from the Texans.

 

2022 salary 35mil - already fully guaranteed now.

2023 salary 20mil - guarantees 3/20/2022.

2023 roster bonus 17mil - guarantees 3/20/2022.

 

Clearly all of that probably gets wiped out if he is found guilty and/or gets hit by league sanctions. However, as of now the Texans are one the hook for that. He doesn’t want to be there. They don’t want him. His no trade clause gives him leverage. 
 

Complicated situation to be fair. It he is guilty, he’s done for now. He’ll have no trade value clearly. Got to think they have to move him on these next few weeks though. Question is, who is going to take that risk on him....

[Skinsinparadise]

15 hours ago, Zim489 said:

 

I dont care what he says. His actions the previous 2 years says otherwise 

 

 

You are making big assumptions though.  Like they had some really nice offer for the 19th pick in the draft in 2020.  I'd guess no one offered squat for it or if they did it was a peanuts offer like the year we got if I recall a 6th rounder for moving down a spot to take Doctson.   It's talked about all the time before every draft which is fans gets excited about trades up and down as if any team can do it either way at will but reality rarely unfolds the way fans fantasize it does.

 

The Giants and Eagles were able to make trades because they were in QB range and top 10 range.  It's not apples to apples to having the 19th pick.  Often the worst spot to be in to make trades is right where they were.  Early in the draft its about elite prospects and Qbs.  Later in the first its about grabbing a dude to get the 5th year contract especially for a QB.

 

As for 2020, and want to hit him on that, OK but I don't think he was passing on Chase Young and that was far from a no brainer move IMO. It's not one of those scenarios of who wouldn't pass up Chase for an extra 2021 pick?  I think just about every team would take Chase versus pass him up. 

 

You never know but the reason why I think you are likely wrong as for the 2021 draft is two reasons.

 

A.  Keim who as I mentioned is often right in advance of the draft said before the draft that getting draft capital is something they were attracted to do to build capital for the next year.  

 

B. Typically it gets leaked later when a trade was offered.  We haven't heard of anything like that.

 

If you want him to be more aggressive to build draft capital.  OK.  But we don't know what opportunities if any he turned down.  

Edited February 20, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[RWJ]

I think it all comes down to this.  At this point you have Jimmy G and Wentz.  One traded the other likely released.  I don't care for either one and don't one of them on our team. I want the money we would spend to extend or pay for their one year used on re-upping our guys or on FAs in Free Agency coming up, but it sure shaping up to be this way.  The only outside possibility is Carr in LV.  Minny is going to extend Cousins, I think since he reunited with KOC.  LV is waiting on Minny to see how much they give to Cousins in an extension and then they either pay up or they trade their QB.  More than likely, they pay up. 

 

We are left at FA QBs again.  Who does RR like the best?  Trubisky/Mariota/Winston then we draft our guy at #11.  That's my best guess.

[Skinsinparadise]

51 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

This is exactly my point. That is fully guaranteed money. Another 37mil fully guarantees in March due for payment 2023.

 

It was one thing shelving him in 2021 due to the much lower cost, but until he gets nailed on those charges all of that cash is a contractual obligation hanging around the Texans neck.

 

They can’t cut him really. He also has a no trade clause. They need to sell low to a team willing to assume that risk. Offering future conditional picks is how I would go with that.

 

Not sure they "need" to sell low.   They can hang on until it resolves and hope it resolves -- thus far it seems like they are willing to roll the dice to play that game.  They are rebuilding, so I don't think the cap hit hurts their bottom line much.

[Est.1974]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Not sure they "need" to sell low.   They can hang on until it resolves and hope it resolves -- thus far it seems like they are willing to roll the dice to play that game.  They are rebuilding, so I don't think the cap hit hurts their bottom line much.

Indications are they want it resolved soon. The cap may not be an issue, but the cash...paying him 35mil to be a weekly inactive isn’t an option. Unless they think a trade over the summer could happen..but his preferred destinations may not be open then and he has that no trade clause to block other moves...

[Skinsinparadise]

17 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Indications are they want it resolved soon. The cap may not be an issue, but the cash...paying him 35mil to be a weekly inactive isn’t an option. Unless they think a trade over the summer could happen..but his preferred destinations may not be open then and he has that no trade clause to block other moves...

 

I am sure they do want it resolved soon but I haven't read anything about them relenting on their demands for him where they've softened.

 

The wildcard, if the reports are true, is Tampa is supposedly hot for a QB.  And Arians likely isn't coaching much more so its Carpe Diem for them.  Arians loves the motto no risk it, no biscuit it.   And maybe for him it turns to what the hell, lets beat the crowd and give the Texans what they want now.

 

Another thing I haven't mentioned but heard talked about in a podcast which is the NFL needs to approve trades, and they might not approve a trade to this team with Watson's legal cases still pending.  That seems a bit wild to me but heard that speculated now about a couple of times. 

 

Edited February 20, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Big swing 10 years ago, March 8th 2012.    March 8th 2022?  This FO/business team seem big on commerorating anniversaries. 

 

 

 

[Jericho]

1 hour ago, Burgold said:

I still say Watson is a no-go for Washington. Washington itself is under a sexual harassment cloud that is just beginning to unfold. The team can't say they are being serious about culture change and trade for someone with 22 complaints about them filed in court.

 

Sure, Dan and Deshaun can go out to a strip club for a beer, but that's about as far as their relationship can go.

 

The problem with this thinking is that there's one legit franchise QB that's out there. Watson. If you self-eliminate Watson, then you've eliminated the one answer to your question. Sure, guys like Wilson or Rodgers could be traded, though I highly doubt either gets traded this year. And on the slim chance that they do, it's only because those players forced the move, in which case they can essentially dictate where they get traded to. I don't see how either picks Washington over other NFL teams. So Rodgers and Wilson are pipe dreams. Simply not happening. The other veteran options are basically just flotsam and jetsam. Yes, they are (for the most part) better than what the team currently has. But that's an extremely low bar to clear and in the grand scheme of things not too meaningful. It's fine to bring in one of these guys, but you shouldn't have to pay any real assets to do it. That's what makes trading for a guy like Jimmy G so useless. If he was cheap enough, then it makes fine sense. But it seems clear that he's not going to be that cheap, which doesn't make it worthwhile. So if we're self-eliminating Watson, then the only other viable option to find a real answer is the draft. The draft is always a crap shoot, even in the best of times. But this particular year looks especially weak. I wouldn't mind the team taking a shot on someone that they legitly think can be good. It probably won't work, but I'd take the gamble. What I don't want to see if for the team to take some QB just for the sake of taking some QB. I've seen many posters on here bend over backwards trying to talk themselves into the idea of some rookie being the answer. It happens every offseason. From the Drew Lock truthers to the Will Grier truthers to the Kyle Lauletta truthers. 99.9% of these claims ends up being way wrong, but they come out every offseason. Malik Willis seems the flavor du jour of many these days. In 5 years, we'll probably look back and likely see Willis out of the league. But if the team wants to put all its card onto Willis and really believes in him, then go for it. In reality, the team should know by now whether there's a guy out there this year that they like. I don't really have a lot of confidence in the team picking correctly, but it should already know (even if it won't say).

 

Which circles back to Watson. The one real answer. Apparently, after years of all sorts of unadulterated stupidity and incompetence, not to mention a general daftness of a magnitude that shocks beyond words, the team must now grow some sort of moral compass to atone for its past misdeeds. Not entirely sure why. Some sort of cosmic karma? The franchise is generally a laughingstock as is, so it's not like it's going to tarnish some pristine image. But the other reality is no one really cares how you win. As long as you win. Apparently Washington now has to win the "right" way, even if could never win the "wrong" way. There's still a good chance Watson would never want to come here anyway (he does have a no trade clause). But the only reason he is even available is because of his warts. If you're waiting for a franchise QB to become available with no warts, keep waiting as I doubt it will ever happen anytime soon. So you either have to accept the warts and live with them or just keep going back to the QB draft roulette wheel and hope the powers that be are smart enough to land the next Josh Allen (picked 7th overall) or Patrick Mahomes (picked 10th overall) or Joe Burrow (picked 1st overall) or Justin Herbert (picked 6th overall) or Kyler Murray (picked 1st overall). And if you're hoping for that to happen in 2022, be mindful the team is without a top 10 pick and its a weak draft. So it might take a few years...or decades. But, I suppose one might be finally able to truthfully say one is winning off the field by making good moral choices.

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The wildcard, if the reports are true, is Tampa is supposedly hot for a QB.  And Arians likely isn't coaching much more so its Carpe Diem for them.  Arians loves the motto no risk it, no biscuit it.   And maybe for him it turns to what the hell, lets beat the crowd and give the Texans what they want now.

We’d maybe take Trask off their hands if that happens