The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[ThatNFLChick]

 

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Its why I prefer Daniels, period actually. 

 

If you want to post a rebuttal you are welcome to. The "shines bright in big games" thing does not apply to Maye nor the clutch thing. As far as what I know about his family, he comes from a UNC dynasty of athletes so it was always expected he would go there and play. He also didn't play against NFL level competition in the ACC. I haven't seen it mentioned that he trains with or works out with anyone besides Howell (and well Eli now)

 

You don't watch ACC football?  ACC defenses were better than SEC defenses this year.  You keep ****ting on the ACC as if it's the Sun Belt, and all it really tells me is you probably never watched any ACC games.

 

Cards on the table, who in here actually sat down and watched a Drake Maye game live the past two years?

[MartinC]

9 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

You don't watch ACC football?  ACC defenses were better than SEC defenses this year.  You keep ****ting on the ACC as if it's the Sun Belt, and all it really tells me is you probably never watched any ACC games.

 

Cards on the table, who in here actually sat down and watched a Drake Maye game live the past two years?

Present. Twice this past season.

 

Not that this qualifies me for anything by the way. 

[ThatNFLChick]

22 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

You don't watch ACC football?  ACC defenses were better than SEC defenses this year.  You keep ****ting on the ACC as if it's the Sun Belt, and all it really tells me is you probably never watched any ACC games.

 

Cards on the table, who in here actually sat down and watched a Drake Maye game live the past two years?

 

I watched every Drake Maye game from 2023 and 7 from 2022. I also know his strength of schedule compared to everyone else's in this draft. I did not watch every ACC game in general, why would I? 

 

I mean the ACC put a bunch of the games on their YT channel, you don't even have to dig for the All-22 if you don't want to

 

 

 

 

Daniels faced top-40 defenses ranked 6, 9, 17, 20, 22, 36 all while carrying the #101 defense on his back. 

 

 

Edited February 11 by ThatNFLChick

[MartinC]

6 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

I watched every Drake Maye game from 2023 and 7 from 2022. I also know his strength of schedule compared to everyone else's in this draft. 

 

Daniels faced top-40 defenses ranked 6, 9, 17, 20, 22, 36 all while carrying the #101 defense on his back. 

 

 

And North Carolina were like 94th ranked on D (by yardage). Neither guy had the 85 Bears on the other side of the ball.

[dunfer]

5 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

I watched every Drake Maye game from 2023 and 7 from 2022. I also know his strength of schedule compared to everyone else's in this draft. 

 

Daniels faced top-40 defenses ranked 6, 9, 17, 20, 22, 36 all while carrying the #101 defense on his back. 

 

 

im good with daniels if the brass goes that way...these debates arent swaying any decisions.

 

but he looks like Forbes. Its a big risk for a running qb to be that lanky. These three are dual threat. Its what makes a blue chip now so theyve got to be able to run in the nfl. Theyve also got to survive.

Im no expert so im not going to place any wagers, but it would be fun for some of you guys to make some bets...for dumb profile pics or something

[ThatNFLChick]

2 minutes ago, dunfer said:

im good with daniels if the brass goes that way...these debates arent swaying any decisions.

 

but he looks like Forbes. Its a big risk for a running qb to be that lanky. These three are dual threat. Its what makes a blue chip now so theyve got to be able to run in the nfl. Theyve also got to survive.

Im no expert so im not going to place any wagers, but it would be fun for some of you guys to make some bets...for dumb profile pics or something

 

LOL!

 

Who I like most and who I want them to take doesn't mean that is who I think they will take. I don't really have a guess on that one way or another yet. Quinn and company haven't said enough about the QB position, just that they're looking for explosiveness.

 

There's still combine, pro days, interviews, etc. When we get closer down the road I'm totally down for making some wagers though

Edited February 11 by ThatNFLChick

[Going Commando]

Just now, MartinC said:

Present. Twice this past season.

 

Not that this qualifies me for anything by the way. 

 

I think it qualifies you for having an inkling of what you're talking about regarding Maye.  I suspect I've been arguing about Drake Maye with some people who formed very strong opinions about him while never having watched a single one of his games.  To me, doing that is both the minimum bar for having a well informed opinion on a player, but also the source for the lion's share of worthwhile evidence for forming takes on them.

 

Nothing even comes close to generating relevant information from watching games in real time.  Cut ups don't come close, and that's what I have to rely on for most players.

 

For example, last year I knew that Devon Witherspoon was a beast and the best CB in the class months before that became a consensus take.  At the time, the CB rankings were muddled and people still thought Kelee Ringo was the most likely CB1, and Witherspoon's stock was universally in the second to third round range.  I thought wow, what an undervalue, this guy is a gem.  How did I know this?  Because I just happened to watch the Michigan vs Illinois game live.  He dominated that game, and was so palpably the best player on the field for either team, that it was impossible to miss for anyone watching live.  But you also would never have fully felt that impact without seeing it in the full context of the game.

 

Back to Drake Maye, for the people in here who are ACC fans and have been watching him for the past two years, it is impossible to miss how good the kid is.  He has been the scariest guy to play against for the past two seasons, and has loomed over the whole conference.  Every single drop back where he gets an inch of space, you hold your breath because you're afraid he is about to kill you.  It was the same thing with Etienne and Lawrence.  It kind of surprises me how little awareness there sometimes is for ACC prospects in this fan base, given that the team is in the heart of ACC country.

[mistertim]

37 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

 

He's right. Thank god we were smart and took Chase Young over Tua and Herbert.

[ThatNFLChick]

Just now, mistertim said:

 

He's right. Thank god we were smart and took Chase Young over Tua and Herbert.

 

I mean...I know what happened with Young but I still don't like Tua. I think we would be looking for a new QB now if we drafted him tbh. Miami worked for him because they put a ton of pieces around him, it was the best situation for him. I don't believe we would have been that.

[mistertim]

2 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

I mean...I know what happened with Young but I still don't like Tua. I think we would be looking for a new QB now if we drafted him tbh. Miami worked for him because they put a ton of pieces around him, it was the best situation for him. I don't believe we would have been that.

 

The take in that tweet was just incredibly simplistic. You have to weigh positional value along with your actual grades. Obviously in the NFL a QB is far more valuable than any other position combined most likely.

 

So IMO if you have a QB with an 85 grade and a player at another position with a 95 grade, you take the QB 10 out of 10 times because, while the chances of the 95 guy being a star is possibly better than the 85 guy, the impact of the QB becoming a star is exponentially larger so it's worth the risk.

[Rufus T Firefly]

16 minutes ago, MartinC said:

And North Carolina were like 94th ranked on D (by yardage). Neither guy had the 85 Bears on the other side of the ball.

Which really doesn't have anything to do with anything if you're scouting QBs. 

 

I suppose it "matters" to people who think W-L record is a way to judge players. 

[mh86]

2 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Which really doesn't have anything to do with anything if you're scouting QBs. 

 

I suppose it "matters" to people who think W-L record is a way to judge players. 

agreed, just like any other stat - people can cherry pick to make almost any argument.

[Rufus T Firefly]

5 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

The take in that tweet was just incredibly simplistic. You have to weigh positional value along with your actual grades. Obviously in the NFL a QB is far more valuable than any other position combined most likely.

 

So IMO if you have a QB with an 85 grade and a player at another position with a 95 grade, you take the QB 10 out of 10 times because, while the chances of the 95 guy being a star is possibly better than the 85 guy, the impact of the QB becoming a star is exponentially larger so it's worth the risk.

I don't know about this. Where is the pick that you're taking an 85 QB? What are we considering that level of QB?

 

Is that Geno Smith? Kenny Pickett? Kyler Murray? I don't have a lot of interest in drafting one of those guys in the first round. I'd rather take a better player at another position and wait on a QB if those are my options. 

[mistertim]

3 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

I don't know about this. Where is the pick that you're taking an 85 QB? What are we considering that level of QB?

 

Is that Geno Smith? Kenny Pickett? Kyler Murray? I don't have a lot of interest in drafting one of those guys in the first round. I'd rather take a better player at another position and wait on a QB if those are my options. 

 

85 is a really good prospect but not generational. I would have given Herbert and Tua around that grade before the draft. Kenny Pickett to me would have been about a 70. As far as pick it would be top 5.

Edited February 11 by mistertim

[Rufus T Firefly]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

85 is a really good prospect but not generational. I would have given Herbert and Tua around that grade before the draft. Kenny Pickett to me would have been about a 70. As far as pick it would be top 5.

Obviously if I know what Herbert is going to be I take him wherever. But that wouldn't be an 85. He obviously outplayed what most of us idiots thought he would be. 

 

If Tua is an 85 that really becomes an interesting question. 

[MartinC]

1 hour ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Which really doesn't have anything to do with anything if you're scouting QBs. 

 

I suppose it "matters" to people who think W-L record is a way to judge players. 

Couldn’t agree more. I was just responding to a post about LSU having an awful defense in support of Daniels. As you say it’s irrelevant to the grade of either guy as an NFL QB.

[skinsmania123]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

He's right. Thank god we were smart and took Chase Young over Tua and Herbert.

Goldilocks already has two sacks already in the first half for San Fran. How come we never got that? 

[ThatNFLChick]

33 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Couldn’t agree more. I was just responding to a post about LSU having an awful defense in support of Daniels. As you say it’s irrelevant to the grade of either guy as an NFL QB.

 

Oh I definitely consider win/loss when I am determining which QBs I like. Its not the main factor but its definitely one of a ton of factors. If you lost the majority of your games I definitely view you and whatever numbers you put up differently. The Parcells method for w/l is a generally good rule of thumb IMO.

 

And I think part of scouting QBs is always being aware/knowledgeable of their situations (did they get a new OC, what kind of offense did they run - simple or complicated - what kind of line play did they have, what kind of situations did the defense put them in, etc)

Edited February 12 by ThatNFLChick

[Fat Stupid Loser]

2 hours ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

I mean...I know what happened with Young but I still don't like Tua. I think we would be looking for a new QB now if we drafted him tbh. Miami worked for him because they put a ton of pieces around him, it was the best situation for him. I don't believe we would have been that.

We're not the best situation for anybody. Haven't been since 1991.

[MartinC]

11 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Oh I definitely consider win/loss when I am determining which QBs I like. Its not the main factor but its definitely one of a ton of factors. If you lost the majority of your games I definitely view you and whatever numbers you put up differently. The Parcells method for w/l is a generally good rule of thumb IMO.

 

And I think part of scouting QBs is always being aware/knowledgeable of their situations (did they get a new OC, what kind of offense did they run - simple or complicated - what kind of line play did they have, what kind of situations did the defense put them in, etc)

You do you - it’s all just opinion.  But won/loss is not a QB stat.

 

Not that I would claim to scout QBs in any case. I have opinions but I’m certainly not a scout.

 

Part of the challenge of projecting a QB into the NFL IMO is taking them out of the context they had in College and projecting them into your system and the defenses and looks they will face in the NFL. One of the things that works in favor of Williams (we won’t get a shot to draft him) and Mayes is they played in similar systems to what we expect Kingsbury to run. While I’m not personally a big fan of that system we get a getter feel for that projection with Maye than Daniel’s.

[Warhead36]

If W/L mattered Stetson Bennett woulda been a first rounder 

[ThatNFLChick]

7 minutes ago, MartinC said:

You do you - it’s all just opinion.  But won/loss is not a QB stat.

 

Not that I would claim to scout QBs in any case. I have opinions but I’m certainly not a scout.

 

Part of the challenge of projecting a QB into the NFL IMO is taking them out of the context they had in College and projecting them into your system and the defenses and looks they will face in the NFL. One of the things that works in favor of Williams (we won’t get a shot to draft him) and Mayes is they played in similar systems to what we expect Kingsbury to run. While I’m not personally a big fan of that system we get a getter feel for that projection with Maye than Daniel’s.

 

I mean, people were scouting and settling on their favorite QB long before we knew who the OC was going to be lol. 

[skinsfan66]

2 hours ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

I mean...I know what happened with Young but I still don't like Tua. I think we would be looking for a new QB now if we drafted him tbh. Miami worked for him because they put a ton of pieces around him, it was the best situation for him. I don't believe we would have been that.

It does make a difference when you have the pieces around you, doesn't it.

[MartinC]

25 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

I mean, people were scouting and settling on their favorite QB long before we knew who the OC was going to be lol. 

But now we know who the OC and is - and that’s a factor no?

 

For the record I don’t really have a ‘favorite’ at this point. I think Maye is the more likely pick but there is a lot of the process to play out yet. Even then what we think and $5 will get us Latte.