The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Warhead36]

Im just glad were not in the AFC. 
 

First team to get a superstar QB in the NFC will

be running it for the next decade.

 

Time to take our shot.

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, MartinC said:

Coaching absolutely, defense not sure about dominating but they are certainly very good. Their secondary is excellent. 

 

But I look at the skill positions on offense and outside of Kelce (who is 34) they are a bunch of JAGS. Rice is a good #3 and a decent #2 - but apart from that they have thin air at receiver. 
 

Running backs are not bad - but they don’t have anyone you would lose sleep over as a DC
 

They are good inside on the O’line but their tackles are average. 
 

The Chiefs need a complete remake of their WR room. 
 

But they have Mahomes.

 

I think all of the takes about how Mahomes is impossible to beat, that you might as well not even try if you don't have someone in his class at QB, and that he just dragged a crap team to a SB are as wrong as they are lazy.  They don't match up with the reality of what we literally just watched, and seem like the kind of lazy takes that form ten years after the fact when the details of the games get forgotten.  Mahomes had one of his worst seasons this year, and the offense played poorly for most of the year, including in the postseason.  That defense and special teams just won them that SB.  Chris Jones made the key play that won them the game by getting the pressure that stopped a wide open Juan Jennings from getting the TD in OT.  Their kicker made four field goals including a monster 57 yarder and the one to send them to OT, and their punting and coverage kept the field position favorable all night and set the offense up with a gimme TD.  The offense stunk and only had three sustained drives in basically five quarters of play.  And prior to this game, the defense carried them against Baltimore, Buffalo, Miami, and Cincinnati in must win scenarios where Mahomes didn't play that well.

 

Agreed that the receivers they had this year weren't good.  But he has played with a lot of great weapons, including throughout his rookie contract.  And his line is very good.  It was the best pass blocking line in the NFL this year, led the league in pass block win rate, had three of the top four IOLs in PBWR, and Jawaan Taylor was 15th among OTs.  When you've got one of the best OLs in the NFL and Travis Kelce, you're well supported as a QB.  And that's not considering all of the other elite level parts of that organization.  That kind of organization wide excellence is what it takes to become a dynasty.  Mahomes is an All Timer who is also in the best situation in the league.

 

I agree with you and SIP and HTTR on the underlying point that you have to get a stud playmaking QB to compete at the highest level of the league year in and year out, and that we must go QB with our pick this year.  But I think it is so much more nuanced than that, and you all have to acknowledge that you also need almost every other function of your team to be elite too in order to compete at that level.  It's not just Mahomes winning these rings.  It's Mahomes and a massive amount of elite organizational support.  The receivers are like less than ten percent of the equation.  Every year they are building something new and excellent so that they can still make a run to the SB even when Mahomes doesn't individually play at a monster level.

[Warhead36]

You need the QB for sustained year in year out success, but once you get to the playoffs there is always room for other factors to contribute to small sample sizes.

 

I trust GMAP to build up the rest of the team once we find our QB. Its lining up perfectly for us.

[CjSuAvE22]

14 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

Seems like you need legend TE's to win SB's too. And great line play both sides of the ball also. No Kelcie, Gronk most likely no S.B. 

I agree all four teams this year in the conference had good to great tight end play, it definitely needs to be a addressed for this team soon.

[HTTRDynasty]

3 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

I think all of the takes about how Mahomes is impossible to beat, that you might as well not even try if you don't have someone in his class at QB, and that he just dragged a crap team to a SB are as wrong as they are lazy.  They don't match up with the reality of what we literally just watched, and seem like the kind of lazy takes that form ten years after the fact when the details of the games get forgotten.  Mahomes had one of his worst seasons this year, and the offense played poorly for most of the year, including in the postseason.  That defense and special teams just won them that SB.  Chris Jones made the key play that won them the game by getting the pressure that stopped a wide open Juan Jennings from getting the TD in OT.  Their kicker made four field goals including a monster 57 yarder and the one to send them to OT, and their punting and coverage kept the field position favorable all night and set the offense up with a gimme TD.  The offense stunk and only had three sustained drives in basically five quarters of play.  And prior to this game, the defense carried them against Baltimore, Buffalo, Miami, and Cincinnati in must win scenarios where Mahomes didn't play that well.

 

Agreed that the receivers they had this year weren't good.  But he has played with a lot of great weapons, including throughout his rookie contract.  And his line is very good.  It was the best pass blocking line in the NFL this year, led the league in pass block win rate, had three of the top four IOLs in PBWR, and Jawaan Taylor was 15th among OTs.  When you've got one of the best OLs in the NFL and Travis Kelce, you're well supported as a QB.  And that's not considering all of the other elite level parts of that organization.  That kind of organization wide excellence is what it takes to become a dynasty.  Mahomes is an All Timer who is also in the best situation in the league.

 

I agree with you and SIP and HTTR on the underlying point that you have to get a stud playmaking QB to compete at the highest level of the league year in and year out, and that we must go QB with our pick this year.  But I think it is so much more nuanced than that, and you all have to acknowledge that you also need almost every other function of your team to be elite too in order to compete at that level.  It's not just Mahomes winning these rings.  It's Mahomes and a massive amount of elite organizational support.  The receivers are like less than ten percent of the equation.  Every year they are building something new and excellent so that they can still make a run to the SB even when Mahomes doesn't individually play at a monster level.

I agree with your point here. And I think Spags is the “secret” superstar for that team this year. But I also think the Ravens and Bills supporting casts have been just as talented over the past few years (maybe even the Bengals). The difference is Mahomes. 
 

The bottom line for me is that I trust GMAP to build a good-to-great supporting cast around our franchise QB. I think the biggest “luck” factor for us will be nailing that pick and nailing the coaching talent/competence it takes to not ruin him.  We’re already halfway there from a luck perspective given how fortunate we were to land at the #2 pick in this draft. Now it’s up to GMAP, the staff and our QBOTF to take us the rest of the way. 

[skinsfan66]

25 minutes ago, Rex Tomb said:

It was amazing to me how Kittle was such a non factor in last nights game.  Guy seems to disappear in the biggest games.

Kittle is not Kelcie or Gronk but Kittle did help them get there to the SB. 2 HOF legends = S.B. Wins. The legends do show up and agree Kittle was a no show.

Edited February 12 by skinsfan66

[Going Commando]

5 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Im just glad were not in the AFC. 
 

First team to get a superstar QB in the NFC will

be running it for the next decade.

 

Time to take our shot.

 

These landscapes can change rapidly, and the good QB situations are heavily dependent on organizational stability.  The AFC has the only three long tenured coaches left in the league, and that is a HUGE part of why Mahomes and Jackson feel so tough to beat.  Guys like Allen and Burrow are going to look way less invincible if their teams do something idiotic like fire Zac Taylor or Sean McDermott.  And new MVP caliber QBs will seemingly emerge if they play for the other great coaches of the league like LeFleur and Shanahan and McVay and Campbell for long enough.

 

There actually is a bunch of sleeping dragon talent at QB in the NFC right now, there just haven't been the conditions to really develop it outside of Philly.  But that could change pretty rapidly if Kyler Murray gets healthy and they finish building that OL, a young team in Green Bay grows up, Chicago spends their picks well, Carolina finds the right coach and acquires the weapons and OL they need, etc.  These QB turnarounds are contingent on difficult building and development, but the foundation of elite talent at QB is there, same as it is for us if we take Maye at #2, or for Atlanta if they move up for Daniels.

 

If I had to bet money on who the next great QB to emerge will be, I'd actually bet on an NFC guy like Jordan Love.  We are going to have to build a dominant team around Drake Maye in order for him to compete with his peers.  That's why I don't want to trade up for Caleb Williams.

[Warhead36]

Just now, Going Commando said:

 

These landscapes can change rapidly, and the good QB situations are heavily dependent on organizational stability.  The AFC has the only three long tenured coaches left in the league, and that is a HUGE part of why Mahomes and Jackson feel so tough to beat.  Guys like Allen and Burrow are going to look way less invincible if their teams do something idiotic like fire Zac Taylor or Sean McDermott.  And new MVP caliber QBs will seemingly emerge if they play for the other great coaches of the league like LeFleur and Shanahan and McVay and Campbell for long enough.

 

There actually is a bunch of sleeping dragon talent at QB in the NFC right now, there just haven't been the conditions to really develop it outside of Philly.  But that could change pretty rapidly if Kyler Murray gets healthy and they finish building that OL, a young team in Green Bay grows up, Chicago spends their picks well, Carolina finds the right coach and acquires the weapons and OL they need, etc.  These QB turnarounds are contingent on difficult building and development, but the foundation of elite talent at QB is there, same as it is for us if we take Maye at #2, or for Atlanta if they move up for Daniels.

 

If I had to bet money on who the next great QB to emerge will be, I'd actually bet on an NFC guy like Jordan Love.  We are going to have to build a dominant team around Drake Maye in order for him to compete with his peers.  That's why I don't want to trade up for Caleb Williams.

Yeah Love is my bet too. The Packers are the GOAT tier QB franchise and they won a playoff game with the league's youngest roster. And the Bears are gonna have some talent to surround Williams. Those two teams will beat the crap out of each other in their own division though, which leaves us room to dominate if we can get it right at #2 this year.

 

Agree with you on the Falcons but I don't see them moving up. I think they go hard for Cousins to try to win now, but I also think their supporting cast talent at the skill position is a bit overrated.

[NOLA2DC]

15 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

You don't watch ACC football?  ACC defenses were better than SEC defenses this year.  You keep ****ting on the ACC as if it's the Sun Belt, and all it really tells me is you probably never watched any ACC games.

 

Cards on the table, who in here actually sat down and watched a Drake Maye game live the past two years?

Funny, this guy said the ACC defenses were better than the SEC. 😀 

[skinsfan66]

1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Stroud would be my pick to unseat Mahomes in the future with the right team and coach. You cannot find a Legend if you trade up your future and miss either, unless you get lucky later.

[Warhead36]

The only guy that's done it that's still in the league is Burrow. He's not a mental midget. Kinda feel like he's supposed to be the Bird to Mahomes's Magic. 

 

 

And Maye will be the Michael Jordan that overtakes them all.  (even has the UNC factor ;))

[Est.1974]

2 hours ago, MartinC said:

Have you seen the contract Wilson is on? You want to pay $37M for a bridge year QB?
 

If we sign a vet (it won’t be a trade) it will be a backup - we could do a lot worse than being Brissett back. If/when we draft a QB #2 overall he almost certainly starting opening day. 

Denver want out of that contract before more money guarantees in March. There’s a deal to be had.

[ThatNFLChick]

8 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah Love is my bet too. The Packers are the GOAT tier QB franchise and they won a playoff game with the league's youngest roster. And the Bears are gonna have some talent to surround Williams. Those two teams will beat the crap out of each other in their own division though, which leaves us room to dominate if we can get it right at #2 this year.

 

Agree with you on the Falcons but I don't see them moving up. I think they go hard for Cousins to try to win now, but I also think their supporting cast talent at the skill position is a bit overrated.

 

I think the Falcons explore Justin Fields or a trade up from everything the beat reporters in Atlanta say. 

 

 

Edited February 12 by ThatNFLChick

[Going Commando]

3 minutes ago, NOLA2DC said:

Funny, this guy said the ACC defenses were better than the SEC. 😀 

 

They were.  The ACC had six top 30 defenses this year.  The SEC had three.  The only conference that had better defenses was the B1G.  The SEC coasted on it's reputation for defense this year.  None of the defenses in the conference were better than Clemson's this year, and you're going to see the lack of high end SEC defense play out in the draft.  Alabama and Missouri might be the only teams to produce first rounders on that side of the ball, and it's not a sure thing with Missouri.

[Warhead36]

4 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

I think the Falcons explore Justin Fields or a trade up from everything the beat reporters in Atlanta say. 

 

 

I think Fields was linked strongly to Atlanta back when they still had Arthur Smith as HC and he'd fit their run style offense more. But Raheem Morris made it a point to emphasize he wants an elite processor at QB and Fields is literally the opposite of that. 

 

If I had to predict, I'd say Atlanta signs Cousins, Vegas trades for Fields, and Minnesota moves up to 3 to get whomever is left of the Big 3(if anyone moves up at all, still think its more likely New England stays at 3).

[CommanderInTheRye]

The junkies discussed Caleb Williams new photo shoot for GQ magazine. In it he's wearing a dress. 

 

Did a search and found the following photo. Can't vouch for whether or not it's photo shopped.

 

 

 

I say good for him. I remember when Joe Namath wore stockings for a panty hose commercial.

 

The only thing that might concern me is whether or not Caleb is as focused on football as he is on being famous and promoting himself and his image. 

 

We've already had two second overall picks that to one degree or another had that issue in RG3 and Chase Young.

 

I love Caleb's potential but--- I think given the probable cost to move up just one spot, I'm fine if we stay at two, pick Maye or Daniels, and then use the rest of our draft capital to improve the team around our young qb.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 12 by CommanderInTheRye

[ThatNFLChick]

2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I think Fields was linked strongly to Atlanta back when they still had Arthur Smith as HC and he'd fit their run style offense more. But Raheem Morris made it a point to emphasize he wants an elite processor at QB and Fields is literally the opposite of that. 

 

If I had to predict, I'd say Atlanta signs Cousins, Vegas trades for Fields, and Minnesota moves up to 3 to get whomever is left of the Big 3(if anyone moves up at all, still think its more likely New England stays at 3).

 

Fields was linked to Atlanta yesterday by Ian Rapaport per conversations he had with people around the league

 

 

1 minute ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

The junkies discussed Caleb Williams new photo shoot for GQ magazine. In it he's wearing a dress. 

 

Did a search and found the following photo. Can't vouch for whether or not it's photo shopped.

 

 

 

I say good fir him. I remember when Joe Namath wore stockings for a panty hose commercial.

 

The only thing that might concern me is whether or not Caleb is as focused on football as he is on being famous and promoting himself and his image. 

 

We've already had two second overall picks that to one degree or another had that issue in RG3 and Chase Young.

 

I love Caleb's potential but, I think given the probable cost to move up I'm fine if we stay at two and pick Maye or Daniels. 

 

 

 

 

 

It's a real photo. Its from a shoot he did with GQ Magazine. 

[Warhead36]

1 minute ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

 

 

The only thing that might concern me is whether or not Caleb is as focused on football as he is on being famous and promoting himself and his image. 

 

We've already had two second overall picks that to one degree or another had that issue in RG3 and Chase Young.

 

I love Caleb's potential but, I think given the probable cost to move up I'm fine if we stay at two and pick Maye or Daniels. 

 

 

 

 

That's my issue as well. I have no concerns about his raw talent level(though he is a bit small for my liking), but he just screams diva/egomaniac/self obsessed brand-a-holic.

 

And it'll only be made worse if he played for his hometown team.

 

That said, I still would take him in a heartbeat at #2. I just don't wanna move up for him.

[CjSuAvE22]

At this point I think we have to take our shot at whoever is left over sfter

the bears pick, in some dream scenario it would be Caleb Williams, but Drake Maye or Daniel’s have the tools too so it’s just gotta hope that they find other pieces we desperately need and that Quinn Whitt and Kingsbury are the winning formula. When we hired Rivera I had zero hope however I have some hope with Snyder gone and a true gm at this juncture

[Warhead36]

1 minute ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Fields was linked to Atlanta yesterday by Ian Rapaport per conversations he had with people around the league

 

That's fair, but I don't think any of that is really established yet as teams are just now starting their offseason evaluation process. 

 

I still think they'll go hard after Cousins in FA and if that falls apart, they'll try to trade for Fields.

[Going Commando]

Just now, Warhead36 said:

If I had to predict, I'd say Atlanta signs Cousins, Vegas trades for Fields, and Minnesota moves up to 3 to get whomever is left of the Big 3(if anyone moves up at all, still think its more likely New England stays at 3).

 

I wouldn't write off Atlanta moving up for Daniels.  The temperature of the fan base is that he is definitely option #1 for them.  They want him, but they're going to need either the Patriots or Chargers (or both) to cooperate.

 

They're headed for a rebuild like us, and it's why they hired Morris and never offered the job to Belichick.  But they already have a better roster foundation for it in place than we do.  Terry Fontenot has been on the job for a little while and they've already built up a decent offense and defense sans QB.  If Morris is the real deal, then they could make rapid strides if they can get Daniels. I could also see that being a landing spot for McCarthy if New England picks Daniels.

[mac8887]

6 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 He's a much better college player than Herbert was.

That's a bit of a stretch. Herbert played under 3 different head coaches and learned 3 different offenses while at oregan. He won the pac 12 his senior year with a 12-2 record, won the rose bowl against Wisconsin and was named offensive mvp. Herbert also won the william v Campbell award.

 

Herbert won the starting job at oregan as a true freshman midway through the season and ended as a senior that had pretty much broke every oregan career, single season, and single game qb record.

 

Not sure how you can put the 2 college careers side by side and declare that maye was a much better college player. I'd argue it's closer to being the opposite.

[Warhead36]

Just now, mac8887 said:

That's a bit of a stretch. Herbert played under 3 different head coaches and learned 3 different offenses while at oregan. He won the pac 12 his senior year with a 12-2 record, won the rose bowl against Wisconsin and was named offensive mvp. Herbert also won the william v Campbell award.

 

Herbert won the starting job at oregan as a true freshman midway through the season and ended as a senior that had pretty much broke every oregan career, single season, and single game qb record.

 

Not sure how you can put the 2 college careers side by side and declare that maye was a much better college player. I'd argue it's closer to being the opposite.

I don't know if he was a better college player either, but absolutely nobody had Herbert as a top 2-5 prospect in the 2020 draft. Maye on the flip side has been heralded as a top-2 pick for a couple years.

 

Now that doesn't guarantee anything of course. But just in terms of where they stand as prospects, Maye is more highly regarded at this point in the process than Herby was.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Damn. PFF just dropped their post-SB mock draft.

 

Has Washington trading #2 to the Broncos for #12, 2025 1st and 2nd, and 2026 1st

Then has us trading #12 and #40 to Jets for #10 and #73 and drafting JJ McCarthy.

 

They go 2 rounds and have Commanders taking Chop Robinson, EDGE PSU at #36.

 

Not sure our fanbase would be too thrilled with that. I do like McCarthy. And the extra draft capital of having 1/1/2/2 next year and 1/1/2 the following year. 

Edited February 12 by JamesMadisonSkins

[ThatNFLChick]

8 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I don't know if he was a better college player either, but absolutely nobody had Herbert as a top 2-5 prospect in the 2020 draft. Maye on the flip side has been heralded as a top-2 pick for a couple years.

 

Now that doesn't guarantee anything of course. But just in terms of where they stand as prospects, Maye is more highly regarded at this point in the process than Herby was.

 

But thats also part reactionary? That goes for all 3 QBs in this draft. 

 

Would Williams be as highly regarded now if we didn't see what Mahomes has done? Josh Allen has helped the big prototypical QB with accuracy issues be drafted earlier, Lamar and even Cam with dual threat QBs and so on. 

 

The projections changed once we saw certain types of QBs having success. 

That's pretty much the entire reason the 49ers took Trey Lance. 

When Brady was excelling everyone wanted pure pocket passers (and didn't really care how mobile they were), now virtually nobody wants a QB that can't move. 

 

 

Edited February 12 by ThatNFLChick