The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[mistertim]

37 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Yeah screw him, it's me and you brother 🤘

 

 

You and I are now best buds purely because I would NEVER want to be enemies with someone who can create nightmare fuel images like this.

[Warhead36]

I'm just trying to talk myself into Daniels by telling myself: anything I've seen I know for sure GMAP has seen x 100, and he also sees things I don't see.

 

I don't really have any doubts in GMAP. My worry is him being a first time GM he might succumb to the coaches wanting Daniels because he's more NFL ready, higher floor, and his style keeping D-Coordinators up at night.

[CapsSkins]

4 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

You and I are now best buds purely because I would NEVER want to be enemies with someone who can create nightmare fuel images like this.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[wit33]

44 minutes ago, redskinss said:

 

Herbert has 17223 yards passing with 114 touchdowns and 42 interceptions in 4 years.

In the entirety of this franchises history we've never even sniffed that type of production over a 4 year period.

 

Wins and losses are not a quarterback stat.

 

Most QBs have cool stats these days. Those also look really cool. 
 

For great to elite QBs, wins and losses are indeed a QB stat. Winning in the playoffs, I would agree, is influenced by facing other great to elite QBs, so the team and coaches play a significant role. In the regular season, if your QB is great, they should generally have a winning record.

 

As for the  70-80% of QBs starting who are mediocre, I agree, it's less about wins and losses and more about other factors. 

Edited April 21 by wit33

[CapsSkins]

18 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I'm just trying to talk myself into Daniels by telling myself: anything I've seen I know for sure GMAP has seen x 100, and he also sees things I don't see.

 

I don't really have any doubts in GMAP. My worry is him being a first time GM he might succumb to the coaches wanting Daniels because he's more NFL ready, higher floor, and his style keeping D-Coordinators up at night.

 

I'm hoping Tim McGrath and the sport science staff are full-throated in voicing any durability concerns. I understand the SEC has several NFL-caliber players (even though the hardest defense they played last year was FSU), but it's only a 13 game season and half the schedule are cupcake teams like Army and Georgia State. Not to mention Auburn and Texas A&M aren't exactly juggernauts.

 

It's radically different than a 17 game schedule with Micah Parsons, Dexter Lawrence, and Josh Sweat in the division. 

[mistertim]

4 hours ago, TurningTheCorner said:

Jayden is a bit unique in that I don’t think he’s only well regarded because of his running ability. He’s legitimately good from the pocket too, quick processor, and point guard distributor of the ball. That was not fields or mariotta. Really we haven’t seen many prospects like him. 

 

The only thing that gives me pause is I could see Maye having better longevity. 

 

Maybe read this? Someone posted it a while back. This guy pulls all the data and the numbers and shows why Daniels appears to be way more Fields or Mariota than Lamar.

 

https://www.dabearsblog.com/2024/jayden-daniels-looks-hauntingly-familiar

[bh32]

I just don't see the hype with JD..Yes he is an electric runner,but he takes a lot of hits,and his arm talent is average..Takes forever for the ball to get to the receiver on deep outs

[Dah-Dee]

11 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

I understand the SEC has several NFL-caliber players (even though the hardest defense they played last year was FSU), but it's only a 13 game season and half the schedule are cupcake teams like Army and Georgia State. Not to mention Auburn and Texas A&M aren't exactly juggernauts.

 

It's radically different than a 17 game schedule with Micah Parsons, Dexter Lawrence, and Josh Sweat in the division. 

 

Nope, Alabama defense was ranked ahead of FSU. 

And Alabama by itself has "several" NFL-caliber players, just on its defense.

And if we're going to start talking about strength of schedule, "cupcakes" etc., LSU had the 17th ranked schedule; UNC was #71, fourth worst in the Power 5 conferences.

 

And yes, an NFL season is much much different than a college season - but that applies to every single prospect, at QB or otherwise, so it doesn't help us differentiate between Daniels and Maye.

[TurningTheCorner]

13 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Maybe read this? Someone posted it a while back. This guy pulls all the data and the numbers and shows why Daniels appears to be way more Fields or Mariota than Lamar.

 

https://www.dabearsblog.com/2024/jayden-daniels-looks-hauntingly-familiar

He’s not Lamar and I wouldn’t want to draft Lamar, he’s a far better processor at the position and has more upside inside of the pocket. 
 

I personally don’t see fields or mariotta in his game at all. Mariotta and Fields don’t process the field as quickly as JD, which is what makes him such an exciting prospect. You’re betting on 2023 Daniels and his continual improvement, those stats are over all years. 

[CapsSkins]

2 minutes ago, Dah-Dee said:

 

Nope, Alabama defense was ranked ahead of FSU. 

And Alabama by itself has "several" NFL-caliber players, just on its defense.

And if we're going to start talking about strength of schedule, "cupcakes" etc., LSU had the 17th ranked schedule; UNC was #71, fourth worst in the Power 5 conferences.

 

And yes, an NFL season is much much different than a college season - but that applies to every single prospect, at QB or otherwise, so it doesn't help us differentiate between Daniels and Maye.

 

Daniels is the one with a slight build and questions about durability. Maye is 223 and built sturdy. 

[bh32]

1 minute ago, Dah-Dee said:

 

Nope, Alabama defense was ranked ahead of FSU. 

And Alabama by itself has "several" NFL-caliber players, just on its defense.

And if we're going to start talking about strength of schedule, "cupcakes" etc., LSU had the 17th ranked schedule; UNC was #71, fourth worst in the Power 5 conferences.

 

And yes, an NFL season is much much different than a college season - but that applies to every single prospect, at QB or otherwise, so it doesn't help us differentiate between Daniels and Maye.

JD can't even set his own protections without looking to the side line for coaches help

[SkinsFTW]

10 minutes ago, TurningTheCorner said:

 You’re betting on 2023 Daniels and his continual improvement, those stats are over all years. 

 

Over/under on sacks in 2024?

 

I'd bet 50+. Also 150+ runs.

 

All considering that he starts all 17 games

 

O/U on games started, I'll go with 10.

 

Thats a Lotta hits! Guaranteed he takes more hits than most RBs and his hits are Acme type 🧨 body parts all over the place hits

 

Dude is also a concussion waiting to happen, not just a regular injury.

Edited April 21 by SkinsFTW

[mistertim]

6 minutes ago, TurningTheCorner said:

He’s not Lamar and I wouldn’t want to draft Lamar, he’s a far better processor at the position and has more upside inside of the pocket. 
 

I personally don’t see fields or mariotta in his game at all. Mariotta and Fields don’t process the field as quickly as JD, which is what makes him such an exciting prospect. You’re betting on 2023 Daniels and his continual improvement, those stats are over all years. 

 

You're simply saying words now and repeating stuff. The "far better processor" than Lamar thing is just something you sort of made up, unless you have some specific metric or film study that somehow tracks it.

 

And whether you personally don't see it, that's not relevant to the article I posted. That article breaks down actual numbers in detail. It's data, not some pure opinion piece. You don't like the data. That's fine.

 

And why do you just get to pick and choose which years to include? He's been a starter for 5 years but because he wasn't very impressive until his 5th year you just want to throw out the others even if they have relevant data, because you don't like the data.

 

In that case, I officially throw out Drake Maye's 2023 "down" season. It can no longer be talked about. All that matters is his great 2022 season. Now that we have that out of the way, here's a potential case for him being #1 overall.

Edited April 21 by mistertim

[Warhead36]

Daniels is a better processor because his reads are easy peasy. If Nabors is open, throw it to him. If Thomas jr is open, throw it to him. If neither are open, take off and run.

 

Its like a kid acing basic algebra and saying he's a calculus savant. 

[bh32]

6 minutes ago, TurningTheCorner said:

He’s not Lamar and I wouldn’t want to draft Lamar, he’s a far better processor at the position and has more upside inside of the pocket. 
 

I personally don’t see fields or mariotta in his game at all. Mariotta and Fields don’t process the field as quickly as JD, which is what makes him such an exciting prospect. You’re betting on 2023 Daniels and his continual improvement, those stats are over all years. 

JD has also played 55 games in college which is a lot compared to Lamar Jackson's 38

[SkinsFTW]

1 minute ago, bh32 said:

JD has also played 55 games in college which is a lot compared to Lamar Jackson's 38

 

Between him, Nix, and PeNix, that is an entire NFL career worth of starts

[Dah-Dee]

2 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Daniels is the one with a slight build and questions about durability. Maye is 223 and built sturdy. 

 

Agree. And that's my biggest fear about Daniels.

 

But the level of competition these 2 faced was notably different; even Quinn publicly commented on the complexity of defenses Daniels faced in the SEC, so it's reasonable to say that experience better prepared Daniels for the NFL than the more simple defenses we've seen described for the ACC did for Maye. 

 

Changes nothing about whether I want Daniels or Maye. I want Maye. But the level-of-competition and NFL-ish-experience arguments do favor Daniels.

[Conn]

 

[CapsSkins]

1 minute ago, Dah-Dee said:

 

Agree. And that's my biggest fear about Daniels.

 

But the level of competition these 2 faced was notably different; even Quinn publicly commented on the complexity of defenses Daniels faced in the SEC, so it's reasonable to say that experience better prepared Daniels for the NFL than the more simple defenses we've seen described for the ACC did for Maye. 

 

Changes nothing about whether I want Daniels or Maye. I want Maye. But the level-of-competition and NFL-ish-experience arguments do favor Daniels.

 

I brought up competition specifically in the context of durability. Daniels' defenders have said he's used to facing NFL-caliber defensive players in the SEC. But the schedule is shorter, not every SEC team has great defenses, and half the schedule aren't good teams anyway. That's why I think his heretofore clean injury history isn't necessarily a confidence-builder for durability at the NFL level.

[bh32]

1 minute ago, Dah-Dee said:

 

Agree. And that's my biggest fear about Daniels.

 

But the level of competition these 2 faced was notably different; even Quinn publicly commented on the complexity of defenses Daniels faced in the SEC, so it's reasonable to say that experience better prepared Daniels for the NFL than the more simple defenses we've seen described for the ACC did for Maye. 

 

Changes nothing about whether I want Daniels or Maye. I want Maye. But the level-of-competition and NFL-ish-experience arguments do favor Daniels.

Ain't no college defense on par with a NFL defense not even Alabama

[Llevron]

52 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I'm just trying to talk myself into Daniels by telling myself: anything I've seen I know for sure GMAP has seen x 100, and he also sees things I don't see.

 

I don't really have any doubts in GMAP. My worry is him being a first time GM he might succumb to the coaches wanting Daniels because he's more NFL ready, higher floor, and his style keeping D-Coordinators up at night.

Even Dan Quinn is saying it’s his decision and that GMAP has be breaking down film for him. I wouldn’t worry about him folding to someone else with his very first pick ever as GM. Doesn’t seem like the type to fold like that. 

[kingdaddy]

10 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Daniels is the one with a slight build and questions about durability. Maye is 223 and built sturdy. 

Daniels is Randall Cunningham, Maye is Ben Roethlisberger for arguments sake.....compare their career injuries. Ben got beaten up as any QB ever, possibly because of his size and immobility. Guys like Daniels are athletes and athletes adjust, especially with good coaching. Just saying that bigger doesn't necessarily mean healthier in the NFL. 

[CapsSkins]

2 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Daniels is Randall Cunningham, Maye is Ben Roethlisberger for arguments sake.....compare their career injuries. Ben got beaten up as any QB ever, possibly because of his size and immobility. Guys like Daniels are athletes and athletes adjust, especially with good coaching. Just saying that bigger doesn't necessarily mean healthier in the NFL. 

 

But... Randall Cunningham famously didn't stay healthy. Injuries seriously hampered his career.

 

Also Maye is way more mobile than Big Ben.

 

Edited April 21 by CapsSkins

[SkinsFTW]

Just now, CapsSkins said:

 

But... Randall Cunningham famously didn't stay healthy. Injuries seriously hampered his career.

 

And Maye isn't immobile at all.

 

So this is a 💩 💩 💩 Comp.