The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[HTTRDynasty]

 

Edited April 7 by HTTRDynasty

[Llevron]

2 minutes ago, ST_DaGoat21 said:

Not sure this has been discussed yet in the thread, but one thing I’ve noticed as I troll through Facebook and YouTube comments is that our African American fans REALLLLLY want Jayden bad and really dislike Maye.  I don’t know what the official demographics are for our fan base, but I have to imagine it’s at least 50% African American.  
 

Do you think Peters and Quinn are factoring that in with this selection?  
 

*full disclosure I’m a white guy and my qb rankings are : 

1. Caleb

2. Drake

3.  Toss up with Jayden and JJ

I think you should keep race out of it here in ES. I doubt your statistics can be trusted and I would hate for someone to start labeling us all by our perceived biases. Cause that **** gets real nasty real quick. 
 

You can find it all over Twitter if that’s your flavor though. 

Edited April 7 by Llevron

[DiscoBob]

To the trade the pick crowd.... y'all crazy

 

We have a unique chance to get a QB that would easily be the #1 draft pick in many drafts.  We don't have to give up anything extra to get him, and we have a bunch of other highish picks.

 

So even IF the QB didn't work out, our other picks in the 2nd and 3rd round should go a long way toward improving the team.  If the #2 doesn't work out, we will not be back in this "our roster is a trainwreck" scenario.  

 

So we have the ability to swing for a franchise QB, AND get better elsewhere, without mortgaging ANYTHING from the future?

 

Take the easy win folks.

1 hour ago, ST_DaGoat21 said:

Deleted

 

Regardless of your whether or not there is any truth to what you are saying (no comment there).  Best to just abandon that line of discussion - its just gonna derail the conversation, and likely get ugly.

 

 

 

Edited April 7 by DiscoBob

[DiscoBob]

8 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

I'm a bit surprised that Denver dumpster fire didn't push harder for Sam 🤷

[mistertim]

32 minutes ago, MrJL said:

the trick for that is if we're not trading out of 2 and we know we're taking Maye, then what good does Daniels being picked higher do us?  Someone gonna trade the Bears to jump us to take Daniels? and drop Caleb to us?

 

I think this is assuming that it's our organization sending false signals or trying to manipulate things, but that doesn't generally seem to be the case. Our FO is apparently being super tight lipped and aren't showing even a hint of their cards. The Daniels stuff is all coming from sports writers and reporters who are either giving their opinion or saying what they've heard as far as Maye vs Daniels preference from other non-Commanders league sources.

 

So if there's a bunch of manipulation and smokescreen stuff happening, it would be other teams trying to do it, not us.

Edited April 7 by mistertim

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

I’m going to throw a brick if we pass on Maye and he winds up with the Giants. 

 

I'm going to throw a brick if any of the three ends up with the Giants but a bigger brick if its Maye. 

 

Raanan who covered the Giants forever for ESPN seemed plugged in, he's not the only one tying Daniels to the Giants.  But Maye and McCarthy also getting mentions.

 

Daboll got a ton more out of Daniel Jones' legs than the previous coaches -- 700 plus yards the previous season when he was healthy.  I'd hate to see what he can do with Maye, McCarthy, Daniels who IMO are all faster than Jones.

 

https://nypost.com/2024/03/27/sports/jayden-daniels-malik-nabers-put-on-lsu-pro-day-show-in-front-of-giants/

“The Giants desperately need some explosion in their offense,” one NFL scout told The Post....

“You hear Lamar Jackson [comparisons] floated a lot with Daniels. That’s putting heightened expectations on him — he’s not the athlete Lamar was coming out of college, but he’s a more advanced passer, and a scrambler. I think Jayden will give you hope to win in any situation because of his unique combination of running and passing abilities.”

 

Edited April 7 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

59 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Yeah I said as much reg Howell and Mayes relationship. It just makes for an awkward QB room and your QB room has to be rock solid for a young one’s development.

[Skinsinparadise]

42 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I think this is assuming that it's our organization sending false signals or trying to manipulate things, but that doesn't generally seem to be the case. Our FO is apparently being super tight lipped and aren't showing even a hint of their cards. The Daniels stuff is all coming from sports writers and reporters who are either giving their opinion or saying what they've heard as far as Maye vs Daniels preference from other non-Commanders league sources.

 

So if there's a bunch of manipulation and smokescreen stuff happening, it would be other teams trying to do it, not us.

 

The more I read some of the mock drafter ties (though plenty still link us to Maye) to this team it feels like a combination of them projection their favorite QB and assuming Washington will agree with their takes.  2nd thing seems to be the excitement factor of Daniels over Maye.  RG3 ironically of all people referred to the excitement factor to Daniels -- granted RG3 naturally would I project of course like a QB like Daniels albiet he seems high on Maye, too, not that it matters.  I recall a national reporter forgetting whom saying if Washington takes Daniels -- Washington-Dallas is a must for the home opener-prime time spot.  Stuff like that.

 

Then the third factor seems to be some think he's a better fit for Kliff's offense.  I don't think Daniels is the better fit personally -- but granted I don't know the new version of his offense that I expect this year.  Surprised Matt Bowen is caught up in the ties to Kliff's system.  He's usually much more spot on.

 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2024/insider/story/_/id/39862912/2024-nfl-draft-favorite-team-fits-20-top-prospects-daniels-nabers-odunze-mccarthy

2024 NFL draft: Favorite team fits for 20 top prospects

• 
  Matt Bowen, ESPN Staff Writer

QB Jayden Daniels to the Commanders

Height: 6-foot-4 | Weight: 210
College: LSU

Where Washington could get him: Pick No. 2

 

New Commanders offensive coordinator Kliff Kingsbury could get the best out of Daniels, who can be schemed as a true dual-threat player, maximizing his throwing traits and dynamic movement ability. Using a mix of 11 and 12 personnel with elements from Kingsbury's spread background, Daniels can be put in a position to showcase his field vision, where he can deliver the ball with anticipation and accuracy from the pocket. Daniels is a smart decision-maker and efficient passer, as he threw 40 touchdown passes with only four interceptions last season.

The rookie can also work off RPOs and be used on designed rushes, where he has electric agility. Daniels ran for 527 yards and nine touchdowns on 58 designed carries in 2023, an average of 9.1 yards per rush.

4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah I said as much reg Howell and Mayes relationship. It just makes for an awkward QB room and your QB room has to be rock solid for a young one’s development.

 

Do we have any idea who ScoutD is? They don't have much followers and they don't identify themselves unless am missing something.  Seems like a fan web site, and nothing more.

Edited April 7 by Skinsinparadise

[Anselmheifer]

23 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'm going to throw a brick if any of the three ends up with the Giants but a bigger brick if its Maye. 

 

Raanan who covered the Giants forever for ESPN seemed plugged in, he's not the only one tying Daniels to the Giants.  But Maye and McCarthy also getting mentions.

 

Daboll got a ton more out of Daniel Jones' legs than the previous coaches -- 700 plus yards the previous season when he's healthy.  I'd hate to see what he can do with Maye, McCarthy, Daniels who IMO are all faster than Jones.

 

https://nypost.com/2024/03/27/sports/jayden-daniels-malik-nabers-put-on-lsu-pro-day-show-in-front-of-giants/

“The Giants desperately need some explosion in their offense,” one NFL scout told The Post....

“You hear Lamar Jackson [comparisons] floated a lot with Daniels. That’s putting heightened expectations on him — he’s not the athlete Lamar was coming out of college, but he’s a more advanced passer, and a scrambler. I think Jayden will give you hope to win in any situation because of his unique combination of running and passing abilities.”

 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/daniel-jones/32004a4f-4e16-5462-39a4-3b4fa743c66f

 

I don’t know why, but I was thinking Daniel Jones was faster than this. Maye actually is faster. 
 

Regarding Daniels vs Maye, it’s easy to see Maye’s ceiling. There have been a ton of super successful NFL QB’s that look and throw the ball like Maye. I think that part of what makes me nervous about Daniels, is that he doesn’t really fit the archetype. There’s never really been a SB winning QB that looked and played like him, and even Lamar Jackson, who is everybody’s holy grail of mobile QB’s, hasn’t been as successful in the playoffs as his more traditional competitors 
 

I don’t like to see Quinn talking about what kind of players scare you as a defensive coordinator. DC’s hate uncertainty and they’ve prepped for big armed QB’s a million time. The game plan is the same. Being a threat to win any given game with your legs is not the same as being the type of player that can make multiple championship games. 
 

Not that Daniels can’t. I just don’t have a million examples of guys like Daniels who have had incredible 12 year careers and won super bowls. 

Edited April 7 by Anselmheifer

[mistertim]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The more I read some of the mock drafter ties (though plenty still link us to Maye) to this team it feels like a combination of them projection their favorite QB and assuming Washington will agree with their takes.  2nd thing seems to be the excitement factor of Daniels over Maye.  RG3 ironically of all people referred to the excitement factor to Daniels -- granted RG3 naturally would I project would like a QB like Daniels albiet he seems high on Maye, too, not that it matters.  I recall a national reporter forgetting whom saying if Washington takes Daniels -- Washington-Dallas is a must for the home opener.  Stuff like that.

 

Then the third factor seems to be some think he's a better fit for Kliff's offense.  I don't think Daniels is the better fit personally -- but granted I don't know the new version of his offense that I expect this year.  Surprised Matt Bowen is caught up in the ties to Kliff's system.  He's usually much more spot on

 

 

 

Yeah, agreed. You can't discount the power of confirmation bias and groupthink.

 

It seems like Daniels has somehow made it into the mock draft collective unconscious as some sort of "well duh" fit for us, but then they say things to support it that don't really seem to have all that much basis in fact.

 

Like the Kingsbury aspect. They have no idea what flavor of his offense he'll run and whether he actually wants a QB who's going to run a whole lot vs a guy who will buy time with his legs but much more often make an off platform throw down the field after breaking the pocket.

 

*shrug*

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah, agreed. You can't discount the power of confirmation bias and groupthink.

 

It seems like Daniels has somehow made it into the mock draft collective unconscious as some sort of "well duh" fit for us, but then they say things to support it that don't really seem to have all that much basis in fact.

 

Like the Kingsbury aspect. They have no idea what flavor of his offense he'll run and whether he actually wants a QB who's going to run a whole lot vs a guy who will buy time with his legs but much more often make an off platform throw down the field after breaking the pocket.

 

*shrug*

 

I got no problem with them explaining the logic behind their thoughts but many don't.  The ones who I find the most annoying are the ones who suggest its a no brainer to take Daniels. 

 

People can like whichever QB.  the no brainer stuff though comes off a bit arrogant -- that's why Simms in particular i find annoying.  The idea that he likes Daniels isn't annoying but the idea that its slam dunk that he expects this team to take him, that i find arrogant.

Edited April 7 by Skinsinparadise

[Llevron]

5 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah, agreed. You can't discount the power of confirmation bias and groupthink.

 

It seems like Daniels has somehow made it into the mock draft collective unconscious as some sort of "well duh" fit for us, but then they say things to support it that don't really seem to have all that much basis in fact.

 

Like the Kingsbury aspect. They have no idea what flavor of his offense he'll run and whether he actually wants a QB who's going to run a whole lot vs a guy who will buy time with his legs but much more often make an off platform throw down the field after breaking the pocket.

 

*shrug*

I think seeing the potential in Maye requires you to understand and actually watch the game more. You can SEE some of what Daniels does that makes him special so it’s easier to look at base stats and his highlights and say he’s going to the next team that needs a QB. 
 

Also cuts both ways. Lots of people calling Daniels a running QB and not going any deeper into his game. 
 

Basically everyone is stupid but the people here on ES. And John Keim lol. 

[mistertim]

5 minutes ago, Llevron said:

I think seeing the potential in Maye requires you to understand and actually watch the game more. You can SEE some of what Daniels does that makes him special so it’s easier to look at base stats and his highlights and say he’s going to the next team that needs a QB. 
 

Also cuts both ways. Lots of people calling Daniels a running QB and not going any deeper into his game. 
 

Basically everyone is stupid but the people here on ES. And John Keim lol. 

 

I resent that. Don't try to pigeonhole me. I'm plenty stupid.

[DiscoBob]

12 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I resent that. Don't try to pigeonhole me. I'm plenty stupid.

 

[Llevron]

13 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I resent that. Don't try to pigeonhole me. I'm plenty stupid.

We both are. But we are smart enough to know it and that (fortunately??) puts us in the top 1% of other humans hahaha

[Dah-Dee]

 

[FootballZombie]

54 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

I don’t like to see Quinn talking about what kind of players scare you as a defensive coordinator. DC’s hate uncertainty and they’ve prepped for big armed QB’s a million time. The game plan is the same.

 

I don't agree w/ that.

 

The game plan changes radically when your facing a high impact duel threat QB.

 

You can't rush the passer in the same manner as rush lanes and rush discipline takes priority.

DBs have to be able to keep their eyes in the backfield to help assist on the outside, making trail technique more risky.

Spies are almost mandatory

Makes the play truly 11-on-11 when the QB fakes/runs.

 

That is nightmare scenario for DCs as you are likely taken out of playing the way you want to before the kickoff even occurs. We have heard this from coaches from virtually every level as well.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/daniel-jones/32004a4f-4e16-5462-39a4-3b4fa743c66f

 

I don’t know why, but I was thinking Daniel Jones was faster than this. Maye actually is faster. 
 

Regarding Daniels vs Maye, it’s easy to see Maye’s ceiling. There have been a ton of super successful NFL QB’s that look and throw the ball like Maye. I think that part of what makes me nervous about Daniels, is that he doesn’t really fit the archetype. There’s never really been a SB winning QB that looked and played like him, and even Lamar Jackson, who is everybody’s holy grail of mobile QB’s, hasn’t been as successful in the playoffs as his more traditional competitors 
 

I don’t like to see Quinn talking about what kind of players scare you as a defensive coordinator. DC’s hate uncertainty and they’ve prepped for big armed QB’s a million time. The game plan is the same. Being a threat to win any given game with your legs is not the same as being the type of player that can make multiple championship games. 
 

Not that Daniels can’t. I just don’t have a million examples of guys like Daniels who have had incredible 12 year careers and won super bowls. 

 

Not a lot of variety in the SB winning QBs, damn you Tom Brady, Mahomes, etc .   I want to be a consistent playoff team, the SB may come eventually but you need to be a team who is taken seriously in the postseason, which this team hasn't been in forever.

 

As for Lamar's lack of success in the post season.  i don't know what to make of it.  I do believe Daniels is a more advanced passer in college than Lamar was.  But he's not Lamar's level of a runner.  I guess the one very mobile QB who has won a SB is Russell Wilson.  

 

I do agree a great passing >>> a great running QB.  I know some of those who have pushed Daniels (not just random fans) are higher on him as a passer.  As for myself, I am unsure on that front but I do love his running.

 

But I do agree with the premise that the type of QB than Maye is - is more likely to win a SB than Daniels.  I attach here 2 scouts takes on Daniels and Maye, the top one is Daniels, the bottom part of it when they refer to Elway is about Maye and one of the dude's on Maye goes he's the type you win SBs with

 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39875571/should-giants-draft-qb-wr-round-1-case-each

 

When it comes to this year's quarterbacks, Daniels is a name to keep an eye on, if he's not among the top two picks with Williams. He is a player who is well-regarded within the organization and that multiple sources with connections to Schoen and Daboll believe would be an ideal fit in their offense. There is also interest in McCarthy, especially if he is available at No. 6.

"There's really been since 2000, 13 quarterbacks that have won a Super Bowl. That's it," Daboll said. "Seven of them were Tom [Brady], and three of them were Pat [Mahomes], and two of them were Eli [Manning], and two were Peyton [Manning], and two of them were Ben [Roethlisberger], and I think nine other ones have won it the other times. It's a premium position, obviously."

 

It's at least worth noting that Schoen and Daboll were part of the group that got the quarterback in place first in Buffalo when the Bills selected Josh Allen at No. 7 in 2018. His No. 1 wide receiver, the recently traded Stefon Diggs, came later.

 

 

Edited April 7 by Skinsinparadise

[bonhommelemec]

4 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Well yeah, it would be weird not to agree with this take.

 

 

I agree.

 

 

We've seen previous versions of the rumor below, but this is coming from an NFCE beat guy.

 

And the quarterback who might tempt them to do that is North Carolina's Drake Maye.

 

He is the prospect who could most entice the Giants to make a blockbuster move up from No. 6, according to multiple NFL sources familiar with the Giants' thinking. With USC's Caleb Williams almost certain to be taken by the Chicago Bears at No. 1, the 21-year-old Maye is believed by many around the NFL to be the next quarterback on the Giants' list.

 

In fact, one league source said he believes that if Maye somehow gets past the Washington Commanders at No. 2 — which is far from a certainty — the Giants would consider making an aggressive offer to the New England Patriots to move up from No. 6 to No. 3 to draft him. It's not clear if New York would be willing to do the same for LSU's Jayden Daniels or Michigan's J.J. McCarthy, the other two top quarterbacks likely to be available at that spot.

 

https://www.foxsports.com/stories/nfl/2024-nfl-draft-would-giants-trade-up-for-a-qb-maybe-if-that-qb-is-drake-maye

Very interesting. It seems that some of the teams that need a qb would be willing to trade up only if Maye was  avaliable. Especially the Giants. 

 

Please don't make the Giants play against us twice a year with Maye as their quarterback. Someone suggested Eli Manning 2.0. That is actually a pretty decent comp.

 

For me, a bit like Matt Ryan with a stronger arm and faster wheels! Of course, Josh Allen and Herbert is spot on.  

 

SIP said it beautifully in regards to JJ, with the Kirk Cousins/ Brick Purdy comp. 

 

 

We have to go for the home run and pick Maye. Daniel is another nice option but he does scare me with his slim frame. Really does remind me of RG3 all over again In terms of his style of play.  He gets me excited though too.

 

 l can't wait for the draft already. 

 

 

 

 

[mistertim]

@Skinsinparadisewhere exactly does the Daniels take end and the Maye take begin? 

[Skinsinparadise]

17 minutes ago, mistertim said:

@Skinsinparadisewhere exactly does the Daniels take end and the Maye take begin? 

 

Demonstated vast athletic ability....Elway.  That's the Maye part.

 

As I've said previously I take the McGinn scouts stuff more seriously closer to the draft when he has 7 or so scouts weigh in, versus just 3.

 

There are typically some surprises in the mix.    But what's interesting for me is McGinn has the team scouts help create a top 100 board, and that board usually beats the mock drafters.

 

He gets a lot of publicity for the naysayer scout or two.  There always seem to be a dude who rips on a player and is colorful in doing it which pisses some people off.  But i ignore that.  i am just interested in getting a feel for what teams think versus the mock drafters.  And often there are tidbits about these players which aren't public.

 

It's a small sample and like I said I trust the bigger sample that I gather is coming about a week or so from now.  But judging by that small sample.  Maye is considered better by scouts than some of his critics on this thread think.  Also Daniels is considered better by scouts than some of his critics on this thread think.  And those three scouts seem more lukewarm about McCarthy than the buzz out there of late.  But again that can change when the sample increases.

 

 

Edited April 7 by Skinsinparadise

[actorguy1]

There is a very real chance that we will have no definitive answer on who they are taking at two right up until the pick is made. That's both thrilling and terrifying at the same time 

[mistertim]

12 minutes ago, actorguy1 said:

There is a very real chance that we will have no definitive answer on who they are taking at two right up until the pick is made. That's both thrilling and terrifying at the same time 

 

The only way we'll know anything in advance is if someone inside the FO leaks it. And so far they've been very good about letting no information at all get out from what I can tell. So I think there's a huge likelihood that we won't know anything until the pick is made.

[Number 44]

13 minutes ago, actorguy1 said:

There is a very real chance that we will have no definitive answer on who they are taking at two right up until the pick is made. That's both thrilling and terrifying at the same time 

Terrifying?

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, actorguy1 said:

There is a very real chance that we will have no definitive answer on who they are taking at two right up until the pick is made. That's both thrilling and terrifying at the same time 

 

Yeah feels that way.  Media types will take guesses.  And depending on who makes the guess, I'll go with that as a leaning of what probably might happen but I don't think I'll feel strongly about making a guess in advance unless something changes between now and then.

 

I am guessing the reason for this is a combination of....

 

A.  Maye and Daniels might be genuinely a tough call

 

B.  they genuinely like to wait to the last minute to make a call because this FO seems to be obsessed with collecting information and making non-emotional decisions

 

C.  Great at preventing leaks