The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Rolo Tomasie]

WARNING - Long Post

 

I wanted to share a detailed analysis of one of Maye's WORST games, in 2023 against NC State. Others have already detailed the VA game. I find this NC State game all-22 film even more fascinating because of the convergence of 3 "draftable" players (Maye, Tez Walker, and Peyton Wilson of NC State) on the film at the same time, all having very different days.

 

Wilson is all over. The all 22 doesn't do it justice because it only shows passing plays, but Wilson is playing in his final home game and he and the whole pack Defense are just amped up. At this point in the season they were playing really well and it shows. He completely shuts down UNC's run game/Omarion Hampton. Go watch the full game (available on YT) if you want to see the whole flow of it. He basically destroys the will to win of pretty much the entire UNC team, which at this point has already suffered losses to Clemson, Tech and VA and is really falling apart.

 

This is often cited by his critics as one of Maye's worst performances but there is a lot more going on here and while he does make some mistakes his performance to me is actually on a level way above the performance of the rest of the team and certainly the coaching staff, who had a team on their hands that basically quit. His final stats: 22 of 38 (58%), 2 TD and 2 INTs, and 9 carries for 106 yards rushing. State wins 39-20. UNC has 9 accepted penalties for 99 yards. But read the below for a true picture of how bad the rest of the UNC team was (and this analysis doesn't even cover the atrocious performance of the UNC defense, which failed to stop State's offense basically at all, ever. State gains 504 yards and 27 first downs).

 

Oh and if you are a fan of Tez Walker I advise you not to watch/read.

 

Anyway, here is the all 22 film I will refer to in the below analysis: 

 

 

 

Plays (Time indicates the time on the youtube video)

1.       (0:05) Drops back, reads RB to his left is covered by Wilson so progresses to second read which is a TE button hook on the right hash. Maye is in his windup when the TE slips and falls on his ass. Maye quickly holds the throw, tucks it and runs for a couple yards. Holding penalty is called on the OL.

2.       (0:32 3^rd &9) His first look is at the MLB Wilson, he was expecting Wilson to blitz and he wanted to get his rb on the little middle screen, but first Wilson backs out and second his running back ALSO falls on his ass. So he looks to the TE on the sideline who is blanketed and just throws it out of bounds. Tez is behind the TE out and has his hands up calling for the deep fade. Maye for once had time and probably could have waited another half second to let Tez break open.

3.       (0:55 2^nd and 10) Pre-snap Maye reads Wilson is going to blitz from the right – he is pretty obvious about it. He drops back and with another free rusher coming up the middle, bails to his left. He really didn’t need to and his O-line was already sliding right to pick up that blitz. His left OT only gives a token effort at blocking the left DE. Then when Maye trickles left, the DE and the other blitzing LB have a free run at him. He is able to escape them and tries a throw back to the crosser but it’s way short. Negative pocket movement and negative throw.

4.       (1:25 3^rd & 15) Maye takes a 3-step drop back, goes to plant and his plant foot slips. He doesn’t quite fall on his ass, but then takes off on what was clearly a designed QB run. He makes about 8 yards then gets sandwiched between Wilson and #12 and fumbles.

5.       (2:00 2^nd & 11) Maye drops back and drifts a little to his right. The pocket actually holds up well and he then takes a step back towards the center of the pocket. He fires the sideline route. Tez is leaving down the right sideline, makes a laughably slow stop to try to button hook, then (you guessed it) slips and falls on his ass anyway. He looks like a dude on roller skates standing on an icy driveway. Ball falls incomplete. That’s 5 plays and 4 UNC players slipping and falling on their ass.

6.       (2:21 2^nd and 12) Out of the shotgun, the center appears to snap it before Maye is ready (he had done one clap, then turned to his rb and adjusted protection, then I am guessing the center was supposed to wait for the second clap, but hikes it anyway). A free blitzer coming around the right side forces Maye back into a very muddy pocket. Maye is looking to his right the whole time but for some reason both his receivers on the right side are not looking at him and start engaging their guys to block. I think what was supposed to happen is his RB #24 was supposed to emerge for a little dump off, but guess what? He had slipped and was slow getting there. Maye had to throw it in the dirt with the left DE hitting him in the back, because his guys were already blocking. It was the right read, the rb would have replaced the blitzer but he was really slow to get there.

7.       (3:00 3^rd & 12) Maye drops straight back, pocket holds up, progresses from his left to right, lights off a rocket over the middle layered over the backer #2. Tez has to go up, but it clanks off his hands incomplete. Good read, good throw. Would have had the first down if Tez caught it

8.       (3:30 3^rd & 7) Trips right and the 2 inside receivers clear it out while Tez cuts in underneath them from the outside. But his cut is very slow and tentative and Maye’s throw is just off his fingers. This is on Tez to me. Tez is having an atrocious game.

9.       (3:58, 1^st and 10) Trips left. Maye sees something on his left pre-snap and makes up his mind he is going to hit #5 on the corner. Wilson blitzes but is picked up well by Hampton. The other LB #2 blitzes also and gets by the LG with ease. Maye steps to his left to avoid and throws a nice touch pass to the corner route, who he had stared down the whole time. But he got the open step he expected. Good read, good throw.

10.   (4:30 1^st & 10) Drops back looking left the whole time. The TE breaks open for an instant and it’s the kind of throw Maye loves, but he pumps and holds it. I guess he didn’t like the FS lurking.  Protection is good and I think he could have come back to his right and the other TE was open down the right hash, but instead he tucks it and runs right. Picks up a pretty easy 15 yards, although he once again slips slightly when he first takes off.

11.   (5:00 1^st and 5) UNC is down 23-0 at this point. Maye reads everything pre-snap. He sees the blitz from both sides, resets the protection, points out the blitzer on his left, moves the RB to pick up that blitzer because it’s a DB and he knows the RB has a better chance of blocking him than Wilson coming on the other side.  On the snap he rolls left to buy time away from Wilson.  All 3 receivers on the left are blanketed, the TE Copenhaver is soooo slow but he gets leverage with the defender on his back on the out. Maye twists and throws across his body while running left and puts the ball right in a spot where only Copenhaver can get it. Incredible play.

12.   (5:45 1^st & 10) Quick out to McCollum on the right. State blitzes again – they basically blitzed on every play the whole game. Maye leads McCollum who dives to catch it but his route is pretty rounded. Not sure a dive was necessary.

13.   (6:05 3^rd & 6) I don’t think this is a designed run per se but the play design might have been to scramble if the first read isn’t there. Maye drops back looks for just a second. State is blitzing 6 and it opens up pretty quickly and he takes off. 55 yard scamper and he fakes the FS badly. Keep in mind UNC has been unable to get any running game aside from Maye going all day and the score is 33-7.

14.   (7:01 1^st and goal) Maye leads Copenhaver too much on a quick out to the left but that dude is so slow. Even the LB draped on Copenhaver’s back is having to slow up in order not to inadvertently tackle the guy.

15.   (7:19 2^nd and goal) RPO and Maye calls his own number, picks up 7 tough yards down to the 1. Nice play by the FS. The CB though looks like he got run over by the Drake train.

16.   (7:45 3^rd & goal) Maye sees state pull all three interior d linemen in last second, so he steps left and sneaks it in, more of a slide to his left than a tush push.

17.   (8:15 2 pt Conversion attempt) One of the few plays all game State does not blitz and I think it surprises Maye a little. He stands tall in the pocket but nobody is open. He breaks to his left and scores but he sees the ref is throwing his flag already for either a hold or block in the back by Copenhaver. Maye spikes the ball clearly in frustration (this is like the 8^th holding penalty on UNC or something like that). Somewhat unbelievably he gets another flag for unsportsmanlike. Not sure if he said something.

18.   (8:44 1^st & 10) It’s now 39-14 State. Drops back, good pocket, looks the safety off to the deep route, fires a nice pass to Nesbitt.

19.   (9:12 2^nd & 😎 Again no blitz, State sends only three. Maye gets 3 seconds and looks left but it’s basically 2 receivers on 4 defenders on that side. He tries to come back to the right side but slips again and as he is falling manages a forward flip that travels about 10 yards to the rb.

20.   (9:34 1^st & 10) Again only a 3 man rush and one of the State guys slips and falls on his ass, so Maye has all day. He tries to look for a dump off to his rb on the left but he’s covered. So he slides back to the right and tries a 40 yard sidearm whip while running to his left. He misses it by inches. Would have liked to see him reset his feet and throw because he had time.

21.   (10:02 2^nd & 10) State blitzes 8 guys and Wilson comes free. His 2 receivers to his left fail to recognize the hot route and aren’t looking for the ball. Tez is blanketed because his route is rounded and awful.  Maye just throws it away over his head.

22.   (10:25 3^rd & 10) Another blitz and his RB fails to block anybody but his own OL teammate. Maye takes a slide step to his left and delivers a dime to Nesbitt on the slant while getting crushed by Wilson.

23.   (10:501^st & 10) 3 man rush and Drake initially has time. At the last second the DT is pushing the LG into Maye’s lap as he is throwing and it goes high over the receivers head. Bad throw. Would have liked to see him take a slide step right and re-set. Look at Tez jogging his route on the right sideline.

24.   (11:15 1^st & 10) Has time and finds a seam to hit Copenhaver. It’s placed in the only place it can go and it’s a tough catch but it hits him in the hands. This is one an NFL player should come up with.

25.   (11:36 2^nd & 10) Clean pocket (no blitz) and he steps up and to the right to get a clear lane, and finds Tez wide open on the underneath route. Tez gets hit at the 1 yard line, then immediately again by Wilson, fumbles, and then recovers his own fumble in the end zone. TD, but not a statistical TD throw for Maye.

26.   (12:10 1^st & 10) Even though it’s a completion, this is a bad play by Drake to me. Pre-snap he looks like he is thinking Tez will get open on the left side fade. State fakes a blitz and I think the safety’s movement fooled Maye. He thought the safety was coming but he drops to doubling Tez. The DT beats the C anyway and gets pressure up the middle. Maye sees Tez is not open, and then progresses to #5 and throws a touch pass off his back foot from his own end zone. Would rather he have slid in the pocket and reset and fired it somewhere. Also, #5 was much more open earlier in the route. He does catch it but gets killed by #7.

27.   (12:38 1^st & 10) Delayed blitz and this time Maye does step up into the pocket and finds an open Copenhaver. Nice play.

28.   (13:05 3^rd & 😎 Maye looks left first but the receiver in the flat is covered, with Wilson hovering. Maye steps up to run right but keeps his eyes downfield and finds Copenhaver crossing, who gets wrecked by Wilson who is already sprinting back to the middle. Fortunately Maye had sat #81 down a little and he wasn’t running full speed into Wilson.

29.   (13:25 2^nd & 15) 3 man rush vs 6 blockers and they get to Maye anyway. Both Tackles get beat on outside rushes. He steps up but is hit as he throws for the incompletion.

30.   (13:46 3^rd & 15) Finds Tez wide open on the slant but he was wide open because the TE had absolutely laid out the CB covering Tez. Easy OPI call.

31.   (14:15 1^st & 10) Maye looks left initially so he must see the corner blitz coming from #7. His WR recognizes the hot route but Maye opts to look back to the right. Delivers a dime over the LB to Nesbitt while getting hammered by #7. Nesbitt falls down on the catch for no reason. You’re a big TE dude, at least attempt some YACs.

32.   (14:42 1^st & 10) 3 man rush and they drop 8 into coverage. Maye looks at Tez first on the right sideline and pump fakes the shorter route. But Tez gets bumped hard off his route, and the Safety stays deep. Maye comes back left and starts escaping some phantom pressure. He should have reset and found the TE over the middle but he tries a running flare to Hampton who is covered by Wilson. Poor throw on the run is incomplete.

33.   (15:04 3^rd & 7) Maye does a half assed pump fake and takes off running for the 1^st down. Gets hit hard by Wilson but gets the first down.

34.   (15:25 1^st & 10) Some confusion by State and Maye finds the uncovered receiver for a quick solid gain.

35.   (15:46 1^st & 10) Tez with a really slow, rounded in-route. I think he already sees Wilson coming out toward him and wants no part of him. Maye tries to hit Tez with almost a no-look pass but Tez is wearing the defender on his back. He probably should not have thrown it there. Tez lets it clank off his hands or knee (maybe the defender gets a hand in, hard to tell) and up in the air where Wilson intercepts the carom.

36.   (16:12 1^st & 10) Still 8 minutes left in the game but Heels are down by 19. They try to block Wilson’s edge rush with a TE and he runs right around slow-ass Copenhaver. Maye tries to escape right but his 2 receivers on that side are running deep routes and he has no outlet. There is already a flag down. Wilson ankle tackles Maye and he fumbles but it was caused by the ground.

37.   (16:42 2^nd & 5) Only three man rush. Maye looks left, then middle, then steps up to avoid the pressure and finds Tez on the right. Tez turns upfield, sees Wilson and promptly slips and falls on his ass.

38.   (17:04 2^nd & 4) Game is over. But Maye drops back, has time, finds Nesbitt in a hole in the zone, the throw is maybe a half step behind him but it hits him in both hands, clanks off them, and is intercepted.

 

 

Edited April 3 by Rolo Tomasie

[DogofWar1]

*Sees analysis of NC State game*

*Sees mentions of people accidentally leaving a slip-n-slide on the field*

 

*Steve Carrell banging the table going THANK YOU!.gif*

________________________

 

This was one of the things that made me a little annoyed at Kurt Benkert's analysis, because for Daniels' video he was really digging in and would mention stuff like a receiver slipping, but with Maye's NC State video, he missed a bunch of slips on plays where it looked like Maye's first read, and really inopportune slips too, like right at the point of the break, when a QB throwing with anticipation has already loosed the ball.  It made me wonder.

Edited April 3 by DogofWar1

[OtisDriftwood25]

13 minutes ago, Rolo Tomasie said:

WARNING - Long Post

 

I wanted to share a detailed analysis of one of Maye's WORST games, in 2023 against NC State. Others have already detailed the VA game. I find this NC State game all-22 film even more fascinating because of the convergence of 3 "draftable" players (Maye, Tez Walker, and Peyton Wilson of NC State) on the film at the same time, all having very different days.

 

Wilson is all over. The all 22 doesn't do it justice because it only shows passing plays, but Wilson is playing in his final home game and he and the whole pack Defense are just amped up. At this point in the season they were playing really well and it shows. He completely shuts down UNC's run game/Omarion Hampton. Go watch the full game (available on YT) if you want to see the whole flow of it. He basically destroys the will to win of pretty much the entire UNC team, which at this point has already suffered losses to Clemson, Tech and VA and is really falling apart.

 

This is often cited by his critics as one of Maye's worst performances but there is a lot more going on here and while he does make some mistakes his performance to me is actually on a level way above the performance of the rest of the team and certainly the coaching staff, who had a team on their hands that basically quit. His final stats: 22 of 38 (58%), 2 TD and 2 INTs, and 9 carries for 106 yards rushing. State wins 39-20. UNC has 9 accepted penalties for 99 yards. But read the below for a true picture of how bad the rest of the UNC team was (and this analysis doesn't even cover the atrocious performance of the UNC defense, which failed to stop State's offense basically at all, ever. State gains 504 yards and 27 first downs).

 

Oh and if you are a fan of Tez Walker I advise you not to watch/read.

 

Anyway, here is the all 22 film I will refer to in the below analysis: 

 

 

 

Plays (Time indicates the time on the youtube video)

1.       (0:05) Drops back, reads RB to his left is covered by Wilson so progresses to second read which is a TE button hook on the right hash. Maye is in his windup when the TE slips and falls on his ass. Maye quickly holds the throw, tucks it and runs for a couple yards. Holding penalty is called on the OL.

2.       (0:32 3^rd &9) His first look is at the MLB Wilson, he was expecting Wilson to blitz and he wanted to get his rb on the little middle screen, but first Wilson backs out and second his running back ALSO falls on his ass. So he looks to the TE on the sideline who is blanketed and just throws it out of bounds. Tez is behind the TE out and has his hands up calling for the deep fade. Maye for once had time and probably could have waited another half second to let Tez break open.

3.       (0:55 2^nd and 10) Pre-snap Maye reads Wilson is going to blitz from the right – he is pretty obvious about it. He drops back and with another free rusher coming up the middle, bails to his left. He really didn’t need to and his O-line was already sliding right to pick up that blitz. His left OT only gives a token effort at blocking the left DE. Then when Maye trickles left, the DE and the other blitzing LB have a free run at him. He is able to escape them and tries a throw back to the crosser but it’s way short. Negative pocket movement and negative throw.

4.       (1:25 3^rd & 15) Maye takes a 3-step drop back, goes to plant and his plant foot slips. He doesn’t quite fall on his ass, but then takes off on what was clearly a designed QB run. He makes about 8 yards then gets sandwiched between Wilson and #12 and fumbles.

5.       (2:00 2^nd & 11) Maye drops back and drifts a little to his right. The pocket actually holds up well and he then takes a step back towards the center of the pocket. He fires the sideline route. Tez is leaving down the right sideline, makes a laughably slow stop to try to button hook, then (you guessed it) slips and falls on his ass anyway. He looks like a dude on roller skates standing on an icy driveway. Ball falls incomplete. That’s 5 plays and 4 UNC players slipping and falling on their ass.

6.       (2:21 2^nd and 12) Out of the shotgun, the center appears to snap it before Maye is ready (he had done one clap, then turned to his rb and adjusted protection, then I am guessing the center was supposed to wait for the second clap, but hikes it anyway). A free blitzer coming around the right side forces Maye back into a very muddy pocket. Maye is looking to his right the whole time but for some reason both his receivers on the right side are not looking at him and start engaging their guys to block. I think what was supposed to happen is his RB #24 was supposed to emerge for a little dump off, but guess what? He had slipped and was slow getting there. Maye had to throw it in the dirt with the left DE hitting him in the back, because his guys were already blocking. It was the right read, the rb would have replaced the blitzer but he was really slow to get there.

7.       (3:00 3^rd & 12) Maye drops straight back, pocket holds up, progresses from his left to right, lights off a rocket over the middle layered over the backer #2. Tez has to go up, but it clanks off his hands incomplete. Good read, good throw. Would have had the first down if Tez caught it

8.       (3:30 3^rd & 7) Trips right and the 2 inside receivers clear it out while Tez cuts in underneath them from the outside. But his cut is very slow and tentative and Maye’s throw is just off his fingers. This is on Tez to me. Tez is having an atrocious game.

9.       (3:58, 1^st and 10) Trips left. Maye sees something on his left pre-snap and makes up his mind he is going to hit #5 on the corner. Wilson blitzes but is picked up well by Hampton. The other LB #2 blitzes also and gets by the LG with ease. Maye steps to his left to avoid and throws a nice touch pass to the corner route, who he had stared down the whole time. But he got the open step he expected. Good read, good throw.

10.   (4:30 1^st & 10) Drops back looking left the whole time. The TE breaks open for an instant and it’s the kind of throw Maye loves, but he pumps and holds it. I guess he didn’t like the FS lurking.  Protection is good and I think he could have come back to his right and the other TE was open down the right hash, but instead he tucks it and runs right. Picks up a pretty easy 15 yards, although he once again slips slightly when he first takes off.

11.   (5:00 1^st and 5) UNC is down 23-0 at this point. Maye reads everything pre-snap. He sees the blitz from both sides, resets the protection, points out the blitzer on his left, moves the RB to pick up that blitzer because it’s a DB and he knows the RB has a better chance of blocking him than Wilson coming on the other side.  On the snap he rolls left to buy time away from Wilson.  All 3 receivers on the left are blanketed, the TE Copenhaver is soooo slow but he gets leverage with the defender on his back on the out. Maye twists and throws across his body while running left and puts the ball right in a spot where only Copenhaver can get it. Incredible play.

12.   (5:45 1^st & 10) Quick out to McCollum on the right. State blitzes again – they basically blitzed on every play the whole game. Maye leads McCollum who dives to catch it but his route is pretty rounded. Not sure a dive was necessary.

13.   (6:05 3^rd & 6) I don’t think this is a designed run per se but the play design might have been to scramble if the first read isn’t there. Maye drops back looks for just a second. State is blitzing 6 and it opens up pretty quickly and he takes off. 55 yard scamper and he fakes the FS badly. Keep in mind UNC has been unable to get any running game aside from Maye going all day and the score is 33-7.

14.   (7:01 1^st and goal) Maye leads Copenhaver too much on a quick out to the left but that dude is so slow. Even the LB draped on Copenhaver’s back is having to slow up in order not to inadvertently tackle the guy.

15.   (7:19 2^nd and goal) RPO and Maye calls his own number, picks up 7 tough yards down to the 1. Nice play by the FS. The CB though looks like he got run over by the Drake train.

16.   (7:45 3^rd & goal) Maye sees state pull all three interior d linemen in last second, so he steps left and sneaks it in, more of a slide to his left than a tush push.

17.   (8:15 2 pt Conversion attempt) One of the few plays all game State does not blitz and I think it surprises Maye a little. He stands tall in the pocket but nobody is open. He breaks to his left and scores but he sees the ref is throwing his flag already for either a hold or block in the back by Copenhaver. Maye spikes the ball clearly in frustration (this is like the 8^th holding penalty on UNC or something like that). Somewhat unbelievably he gets another flag for unsportsmanlike. Not sure if he said something.

18.   (8:44 1^st & 10) It’s now 39-14 State. Drops back, good pocket, looks the safety off to the deep route, fires a nice pass to Nesbitt.

19.   (9:12 2^nd & 😎 Again no blitz, State sends only three. Maye gets 3 seconds and looks left but it’s basically 2 receivers on 4 defenders on that side. He tries to come back to the right side but slips again and as he is falling manages a forward flip that travels about 10 yards to the rb.

20.   (9:34 1^st & 10) Again only a 3 man rush and one of the State guys slips and falls on his ass, so Maye has all day. He tries to look for a dump off to his rb on the left but he’s covered. So he slides back to the right and tries a 40 yard sidearm whip while running to his left. He misses it by inches. Would have liked to see him reset his feet and throw because he had time.

21.   (10:02 2^nd & 10) State blitzes 8 guys and Wilson comes free. His 2 receivers to his left fail to recognize the hot route and aren’t looking for the ball. Tez is blanketed because his route is rounded and awful.  Maye just throws it away over his head.

22.   (10:25 3^rd & 10) Another blitz and his RB fails to block anybody but his own OL teammate. Maye takes a slide step to his left and delivers a dime to Nesbitt on the slant while getting crushed by Wilson.

23.   (10:501^st & 10) 3 man rush and Drake initially has time. At the last second the DT is pushing the LG into Maye’s lap as he is throwing and it goes high over the receivers head. Bad throw. Would have liked to see him take a slide step right and re-set. Look at Tez jogging his route on the right sideline.

24.   (11:15 1^st & 10) Has time and finds a seam to hit Copenhaver. It’s placed in the only place it can go and it’s a tough catch but it hits him in the hands. This is one an NFL player should come up with.

25.   (11:36 2^nd & 10) Clean pocket (no blitz) and he steps up and to the right to get a clear lane, and finds Tez wide open on the underneath route. Tez gets hit at the 1 yard line, then immediately again by Wilson, fumbles, and then recovers his own fumble in the end zone. TD, but not a statistical TD throw for Maye.

26.   (12:10 1^st & 10) Even though it’s a completion, this is a bad play by Drake to me. Pre-snap he looks like he is thinking Tez will get open on the left side fade. State fakes a blitz and I think the safety’s movement fooled Maye. He thought the safety was coming but he drops to doubling Tez. The DT beats the C anyway and gets pressure up the middle. Maye sees Tez is not open, and then progresses to #5 and throws a touch pass off his back foot from his own end zone. Would rather he have slid in the pocket and reset and fired it somewhere. Also, #5 was much more open earlier in the route. He does catch it but gets killed by #7.

27.   (12:38 1^st & 10) Delayed blitz and this time Maye does step up into the pocket and finds an open Copenhaver. Nice play.

28.   (13:05 3^rd & 😎 Maye looks left first but the receiver in the flat is covered, with Wilson hovering. Maye steps up to run right but keeps his eyes downfield and finds Copenhaver crossing, who gets wrecked by Wilson who is already sprinting back to the middle. Fortunately Maye had sat #81 down a little and he wasn’t running full speed into Wilson.

29.   (13:25 2^nd & 15) 3 man rush vs 6 blockers and they get to Maye anyway. Both Tackles get beat on outside rushes. He steps up but is hit as he throws for the incompletion.

30.   (13:46 3^rd & 15) Finds Tez wide open on the slant but he was wide open because the TE had absolutely laid out the CB covering Tez. Easy OPI call.

31.   (14:15 1^st & 10) Maye looks left initially so he must see the corner blitz coming from #7. His WR recognizes the hot route but Maye opts to look back to the right. Delivers a dime over the LB to Nesbitt while getting hammered by #7. Nesbitt falls down on the catch for no reason. You’re a big TE dude, at least attempt some YACs.

32.   (14:42 1^st & 10) 3 man rush and they drop 8 into coverage. Maye looks at Tez first on the right sideline and pump fakes the shorter route. But Tez gets bumped hard off his route, and the Safety stays deep. Maye comes back left and starts escaping some phantom pressure. He should have reset and found the TE over the middle but he tries a running flare to Hampton who is covered by Wilson. Poor throw on the run is incomplete.

33.   (15:04 3^rd & 7) Maye does a half assed pump fake and takes off running for the 1^st down. Gets hit hard by Wilson but gets the first down.

34.   (15:25 1^st & 10) Some confusion by State and Maye finds the uncovered receiver for a quick solid gain.

35.   (15:46 1^st & 10) Tez with a really slow, rounded in-route. I think he already sees Wilson coming out toward him and wants no part of him. Maye tries to hit Tez with almost a no-look pass but Tez is wearing the defender on his back. He probably should not have thrown it there. Tez lets it clank off his hands or knee (maybe the defender gets a hand in, hard to tell) and up in the air where Wilson intercepts the carom.

36.   (16:12 1^st & 10) Still 8 minutes left in the game but Heels are down by 19. They try to block Wilson’s edge rush with a TE and he runs right around slow-ass Copenhaver. Maye tries to escape right but his 2 receivers on that side are running deep routes and he has no outlet. There is already a flag down. Wilson ankle tackles Maye and he fumbles but it was caused by the ground.

37.   (16:42 2^nd & 5) Only three man rush. Maye looks left, then middle, then steps up to avoid the pressure and finds Tez on the right. Tez turns upfield, sees Wilson and promptly slips and falls on his ass.

38.   (17:04 2^nd & 4) Game is over. But Maye drops back, has time, finds Nesbitt in a hole in the zone, the throw is maybe a half step behind him but it hits him in both hands, clanks off them, and is intercepted.

 

 

I have one question. What were your views on Maye before reviewing this film? Was he your number 2 quarterback behind Williams? I appreciate the write up but we are human. This reminds me of a boxing or UFC match. Where you are rooting for a guy and may see the match differently than the judge. Tom Brady played with Kevin Faulk, Troy Brown and so on. Great quarterbacks overcome the faults of there team with hot routes, line checks, and so on.

[Conn]

3 minutes ago, OtisDriftwood25 said:

I have one question. What were your views on Maye before reviewing this film? Was he your number 2 quarterback behind Williams? I appreciate the write up but we are human. This reminds me of a boxing or UFC match. Where you are rooting for a guy and may see the match differently than the judge. Tom Brady played with Kevin Faulk, Troy Brown and so on. Great quarterbacks overcome the faults of there team with hot routes, line checks, and so on.

He posted that less than 20 min ago. You had time to read his whole write-up alongside watching the video he’s referencing play-by-play and decide he seems biased in his observations?

[woodpecker]

1 minute ago, Conn said:

He posted that less than 20 min ago. You had time to read his whole write-up alongside watching the video he’s referencing play-by-play and decide he seems biased in his observations?

Ha ha I was thinking the same thing. The videos right there for all of us to watch and make up our own minds! Biased or not, I appreciate the time that was spent creating that post.

[OtisDriftwood25]

3 minutes ago, Conn said:

He posted that less than 20 min ago. You had time to read his whole write-up alongside watching the video he’s referencing play-by-play and decide he seems biased in his observations?

It takes more than 20 minutes to read that? I watched the video months ago. 

Edited April 3 by OtisDriftwood25

[mistertim]

32 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

*Sees analysis of NC State game*

*Sees mentions of people accidentally leaving a slip-n-slide on the field*

 

*Steve Carrell banging the table going THANK YOU!.gif*

________________________

 

This was one of the things that made me a little annoyed at Kurt Benkert's analysis, because for Daniels' video he was really digging in and would mention stuff like a receiver slipping, but with Maye's NC State video, he missed a bunch of slips on plays where it looked like Maye's first read, and really inopportune slips too, like right at the point of the break, when a QB throwing with anticipation has already loosed the ball.  It made me wonder.

 

Benkert has been in the tank for Daniels for a while. I noticed that too when watching his analysis of Daniels vs Maye. For Daniels he seemed to make every excuse under the sun for why negative plays were someone else's fault: it was the OL, it was the receiver, it was the play calling. Neither Maye nor Williams got anything close to that luxury from him, especially Maye.

[Conn]

26 minutes ago, OtisDriftwood25 said:

It takes more than 20 minutes to read that? I watched the video months ago. 

Should be easy for you to post your own play-by-play breakdown pointing out where the flaws in his thinking are then, so that people can decide who is less biased 

[Tress Is The Way]

If I'm AP I'm still banging the table for Maye. He doesn't have to start right away, he can sit behind Mariota and work on the things he needs to work on.

 

JD5 will get thrust into the starting line up way too soon and behind our porous (and believe me, it IS very poor) offensive line, his body type, it's got RG3 written all over it. Stellar first year, gets injured, flames out and becomes an espn analyst. We've seen this story before, and we got BURNED. Why oh why would this fan base want to go through the same thing over again? 

[Warhead36]

1 minute ago, Tress Is The Way said:

If I'm AP I'm still banging the table for Maye. He doesn't have to start right away, he can sit behind Mariota and work on the things he needs to work on.

 

JD5 will get thrust into the starting line up way too soon and behind our porous (and believe me, it IS very poor) offensive line, his body type, it's got RG3 written all over it. Stellar first year, gets injured, flames out and becomes an espn analyst. We've seen this story before, and we got BURNED. Why oh why would this fan base want to go through the same thing over again? 

AP doesnt have to bang the table. Hes the head honcho. He can pick whoever he wants.

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

1 hour ago, Rolo Tomasie said:

WARNING - Long Post

 

I wanted to share a detailed analysis of one of Maye's WORST games, in 2023 against NC State. Others have already detailed the VA game. I find this NC State game all-22 film even more fascinating because of the convergence of 3 "draftable" players (Maye, Tez Walker, and Peyton Wilson of NC State) on the film at the same time, all having very different days.

 

Wilson is all over. The all 22 doesn't do it justice because it only shows passing plays, but Wilson is playing in his final home game and he and the whole pack Defense are just amped up. At this point in the season they were playing really well and it shows. He completely shuts down UNC's run game/Omarion Hampton. Go watch the full game (available on YT) if you want to see the whole flow of it. He basically destroys the will to win of pretty much the entire UNC team, which at this point has already suffered losses to Clemson, Tech and VA and is really falling apart.

 

This is often cited by his critics as one of Maye's worst performances but there is a lot more going on here and while he does make some mistakes his performance to me is actually on a level way above the performance of the rest of the team and certainly the coaching staff, who had a team on their hands that basically quit. His final stats: 22 of 38 (58%), 2 TD and 2 INTs, and 9 carries for 106 yards rushing. State wins 39-20. UNC has 9 accepted penalties for 99 yards. But read the below for a true picture of how bad the rest of the UNC team was (and this analysis doesn't even cover the atrocious performance of the UNC defense, which failed to stop State's offense basically at all, ever. State gains 504 yards and 27 first downs).

 

Oh and if you are a fan of Tez Walker I advise you not to watch/read.

 

Anyway, here is the all 22 film I will refer to in the below analysis: 

 

 

 

Plays (Time indicates the time on the youtube video)

1.       (0:05) Drops back, reads RB to his left is covered by Wilson so progresses to second read which is a TE button hook on the right hash. Maye is in his windup when the TE slips and falls on his ass. Maye quickly holds the throw, tucks it and runs for a couple yards. Holding penalty is called on the OL.

2.       (0:32 3^rd &9) His first look is at the MLB Wilson, he was expecting Wilson to blitz and he wanted to get his rb on the little middle screen, but first Wilson backs out and second his running back ALSO falls on his ass. So he looks to the TE on the sideline who is blanketed and just throws it out of bounds. Tez is behind the TE out and has his hands up calling for the deep fade. Maye for once had time and probably could have waited another half second to let Tez break open.

3.       (0:55 2^nd and 10) Pre-snap Maye reads Wilson is going to blitz from the right – he is pretty obvious about it. He drops back and with another free rusher coming up the middle, bails to his left. He really didn’t need to and his O-line was already sliding right to pick up that blitz. His left OT only gives a token effort at blocking the left DE. Then when Maye trickles left, the DE and the other blitzing LB have a free run at him. He is able to escape them and tries a throw back to the crosser but it’s way short. Negative pocket movement and negative throw.

4.       (1:25 3^rd & 15) Maye takes a 3-step drop back, goes to plant and his plant foot slips. He doesn’t quite fall on his ass, but then takes off on what was clearly a designed QB run. He makes about 8 yards then gets sandwiched between Wilson and #12 and fumbles.

5.       (2:00 2^nd & 11) Maye drops back and drifts a little to his right. The pocket actually holds up well and he then takes a step back towards the center of the pocket. He fires the sideline route. Tez is leaving down the right sideline, makes a laughably slow stop to try to button hook, then (you guessed it) slips and falls on his ass anyway. He looks like a dude on roller skates standing on an icy driveway. Ball falls incomplete. That’s 5 plays and 4 UNC players slipping and falling on their ass.

6.       (2:21 2^nd and 12) Out of the shotgun, the center appears to snap it before Maye is ready (he had done one clap, then turned to his rb and adjusted protection, then I am guessing the center was supposed to wait for the second clap, but hikes it anyway). A free blitzer coming around the right side forces Maye back into a very muddy pocket. Maye is looking to his right the whole time but for some reason both his receivers on the right side are not looking at him and start engaging their guys to block. I think what was supposed to happen is his RB #24 was supposed to emerge for a little dump off, but guess what? He had slipped and was slow getting there. Maye had to throw it in the dirt with the left DE hitting him in the back, because his guys were already blocking. It was the right read, the rb would have replaced the blitzer but he was really slow to get there.

7.       (3:00 3^rd & 12) Maye drops straight back, pocket holds up, progresses from his left to right, lights off a rocket over the middle layered over the backer #2. Tez has to go up, but it clanks off his hands incomplete. Good read, good throw. Would have had the first down if Tez caught it

8.       (3:30 3^rd & 7) Trips right and the 2 inside receivers clear it out while Tez cuts in underneath them from the outside. But his cut is very slow and tentative and Maye’s throw is just off his fingers. This is on Tez to me. Tez is having an atrocious game.

9.       (3:58, 1^st and 10) Trips left. Maye sees something on his left pre-snap and makes up his mind he is going to hit #5 on the corner. Wilson blitzes but is picked up well by Hampton. The other LB #2 blitzes also and gets by the LG with ease. Maye steps to his left to avoid and throws a nice touch pass to the corner route, who he had stared down the whole time. But he got the open step he expected. Good read, good throw.

10.   (4:30 1^st & 10) Drops back looking left the whole time. The TE breaks open for an instant and it’s the kind of throw Maye loves, but he pumps and holds it. I guess he didn’t like the FS lurking.  Protection is good and I think he could have come back to his right and the other TE was open down the right hash, but instead he tucks it and runs right. Picks up a pretty easy 15 yards, although he once again slips slightly when he first takes off.

11.   (5:00 1^st and 5) UNC is down 23-0 at this point. Maye reads everything pre-snap. He sees the blitz from both sides, resets the protection, points out the blitzer on his left, moves the RB to pick up that blitzer because it’s a DB and he knows the RB has a better chance of blocking him than Wilson coming on the other side.  On the snap he rolls left to buy time away from Wilson.  All 3 receivers on the left are blanketed, the TE Copenhaver is soooo slow but he gets leverage with the defender on his back on the out. Maye twists and throws across his body while running left and puts the ball right in a spot where only Copenhaver can get it. Incredible play.

12.   (5:45 1^st & 10) Quick out to McCollum on the right. State blitzes again – they basically blitzed on every play the whole game. Maye leads McCollum who dives to catch it but his route is pretty rounded. Not sure a dive was necessary.

13.   (6:05 3^rd & 6) I don’t think this is a designed run per se but the play design might have been to scramble if the first read isn’t there. Maye drops back looks for just a second. State is blitzing 6 and it opens up pretty quickly and he takes off. 55 yard scamper and he fakes the FS badly. Keep in mind UNC has been unable to get any running game aside from Maye going all day and the score is 33-7.

14.   (7:01 1^st and goal) Maye leads Copenhaver too much on a quick out to the left but that dude is so slow. Even the LB draped on Copenhaver’s back is having to slow up in order not to inadvertently tackle the guy.

15.   (7:19 2^nd and goal) RPO and Maye calls his own number, picks up 7 tough yards down to the 1. Nice play by the FS. The CB though looks like he got run over by the Drake train.

16.   (7:45 3^rd & goal) Maye sees state pull all three interior d linemen in last second, so he steps left and sneaks it in, more of a slide to his left than a tush push.

17.   (8:15 2 pt Conversion attempt) One of the few plays all game State does not blitz and I think it surprises Maye a little. He stands tall in the pocket but nobody is open. He breaks to his left and scores but he sees the ref is throwing his flag already for either a hold or block in the back by Copenhaver. Maye spikes the ball clearly in frustration (this is like the 8^th holding penalty on UNC or something like that). Somewhat unbelievably he gets another flag for unsportsmanlike. Not sure if he said something.

18.   (8:44 1^st & 10) It’s now 39-14 State. Drops back, good pocket, looks the safety off to the deep route, fires a nice pass to Nesbitt.

19.   (9:12 2^nd & 😎 Again no blitz, State sends only three. Maye gets 3 seconds and looks left but it’s basically 2 receivers on 4 defenders on that side. He tries to come back to the right side but slips again and as he is falling manages a forward flip that travels about 10 yards to the rb.

20.   (9:34 1^st & 10) Again only a 3 man rush and one of the State guys slips and falls on his ass, so Maye has all day. He tries to look for a dump off to his rb on the left but he’s covered. So he slides back to the right and tries a 40 yard sidearm whip while running to his left. He misses it by inches. Would have liked to see him reset his feet and throw because he had time.

21.   (10:02 2^nd & 10) State blitzes 8 guys and Wilson comes free. His 2 receivers to his left fail to recognize the hot route and aren’t looking for the ball. Tez is blanketed because his route is rounded and awful.  Maye just throws it away over his head.

22.   (10:25 3^rd & 10) Another blitz and his RB fails to block anybody but his own OL teammate. Maye takes a slide step to his left and delivers a dime to Nesbitt on the slant while getting crushed by Wilson.

23.   (10:501^st & 10) 3 man rush and Drake initially has time. At the last second the DT is pushing the LG into Maye’s lap as he is throwing and it goes high over the receivers head. Bad throw. Would have liked to see him take a slide step right and re-set. Look at Tez jogging his route on the right sideline.

24.   (11:15 1^st & 10) Has time and finds a seam to hit Copenhaver. It’s placed in the only place it can go and it’s a tough catch but it hits him in the hands. This is one an NFL player should come up with.

25.   (11:36 2^nd & 10) Clean pocket (no blitz) and he steps up and to the right to get a clear lane, and finds Tez wide open on the underneath route. Tez gets hit at the 1 yard line, then immediately again by Wilson, fumbles, and then recovers his own fumble in the end zone. TD, but not a statistical TD throw for Maye.

26.   (12:10 1^st & 10) Even though it’s a completion, this is a bad play by Drake to me. Pre-snap he looks like he is thinking Tez will get open on the left side fade. State fakes a blitz and I think the safety’s movement fooled Maye. He thought the safety was coming but he drops to doubling Tez. The DT beats the C anyway and gets pressure up the middle. Maye sees Tez is not open, and then progresses to #5 and throws a touch pass off his back foot from his own end zone. Would rather he have slid in the pocket and reset and fired it somewhere. Also, #5 was much more open earlier in the route. He does catch it but gets killed by #7.

27.   (12:38 1^st & 10) Delayed blitz and this time Maye does step up into the pocket and finds an open Copenhaver. Nice play.

28.   (13:05 3^rd & 😎 Maye looks left first but the receiver in the flat is covered, with Wilson hovering. Maye steps up to run right but keeps his eyes downfield and finds Copenhaver crossing, who gets wrecked by Wilson who is already sprinting back to the middle. Fortunately Maye had sat #81 down a little and he wasn’t running full speed into Wilson.

29.   (13:25 2^nd & 15) 3 man rush vs 6 blockers and they get to Maye anyway. Both Tackles get beat on outside rushes. He steps up but is hit as he throws for the incompletion.

30.   (13:46 3^rd & 15) Finds Tez wide open on the slant but he was wide open because the TE had absolutely laid out the CB covering Tez. Easy OPI call.

31.   (14:15 1^st & 10) Maye looks left initially so he must see the corner blitz coming from #7. His WR recognizes the hot route but Maye opts to look back to the right. Delivers a dime over the LB to Nesbitt while getting hammered by #7. Nesbitt falls down on the catch for no reason. You’re a big TE dude, at least attempt some YACs.

32.   (14:42 1^st & 10) 3 man rush and they drop 8 into coverage. Maye looks at Tez first on the right sideline and pump fakes the shorter route. But Tez gets bumped hard off his route, and the Safety stays deep. Maye comes back left and starts escaping some phantom pressure. He should have reset and found the TE over the middle but he tries a running flare to Hampton who is covered by Wilson. Poor throw on the run is incomplete.

33.   (15:04 3^rd & 7) Maye does a half assed pump fake and takes off running for the 1^st down. Gets hit hard by Wilson but gets the first down.

34.   (15:25 1^st & 10) Some confusion by State and Maye finds the uncovered receiver for a quick solid gain.

35.   (15:46 1^st & 10) Tez with a really slow, rounded in-route. I think he already sees Wilson coming out toward him and wants no part of him. Maye tries to hit Tez with almost a no-look pass but Tez is wearing the defender on his back. He probably should not have thrown it there. Tez lets it clank off his hands or knee (maybe the defender gets a hand in, hard to tell) and up in the air where Wilson intercepts the carom.

36.   (16:12 1^st & 10) Still 8 minutes left in the game but Heels are down by 19. They try to block Wilson’s edge rush with a TE and he runs right around slow-ass Copenhaver. Maye tries to escape right but his 2 receivers on that side are running deep routes and he has no outlet. There is already a flag down. Wilson ankle tackles Maye and he fumbles but it was caused by the ground.

37.   (16:42 2^nd & 5) Only three man rush. Maye looks left, then middle, then steps up to avoid the pressure and finds Tez on the right. Tez turns upfield, sees Wilson and promptly slips and falls on his ass.

38.   (17:04 2^nd & 4) Game is over. But Maye drops back, has time, finds Nesbitt in a hole in the zone, the throw is maybe a half step behind him but it hits him in both hands, clanks off them, and is intercepted.

 

 

I respect the hell out of this. But, brother, there is no way I have the attention span to even get midway through. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

17 minutes ago, Professor_Nutter_Butter said:

I respect the hell out of this. But, brother, there is no way I have the attention span to even get midway through. 

It's a great write up.  I did almost exactly the same thing for the UVA game.  

 

It's worth a read.  And the way he wrote it, it's funny.  

 

I think the next one I do, I'm going to "bold" certain plays so folks can scan to the most important ones, or ones that are indicitive of things.

 

Anyway, @Rolo Tomasie, that was an outstanding breakdown.  I know how long it takes to put those together, as I did one each for Maye, McCarthy and Daniels.  

[MartinC]

53 minutes ago, Professor_Nutter_Butter said:

I respect the hell out of this. But, brother, there is no way I have the attention span to even get midway through. 

That’s kind of on you, not him. I get people don’t always have time to get into a long post. Save it for when you do. 

 

I appreciate someone actually putting time into some meaningful analysis.

[RandyHolt]

TLDRs FTW

 

Why the hell is Mariota here again.... Vet leadership..... I have to trust AP that he is a leader of men.

 

But I remain on record as saying Howell would have been both a better short and long term backup.  Yes even if it made Maye look over his shoulder pads.

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

3 minutes ago, MartinC said:

That’s kind of on you, not him. I get people don’t always have time to get into a long post. Save it for when you do. 

 

I appreciate someone actually putting time into some meaningful analysis.

Believe me, I'm not complaining about it at all.

[Warhead36]

9 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

TLDRs FTW

 

Why the hell is Mariota here again.... Vet leadership..... I have to trust AP that he is a leader of men.

 

But I remain on record as saying Howell would have been both a better short and long term backup.  Yes even if it made Maye look over his shoulder pads.

I don't think the staff liked the Maye/Howell dynamic and decided it was better to get rid of Howell, and the value from the Seahawk trade was too good to pass up.

[DiscoBob]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

I don't think the staff liked the Maye/Howell dynamic and decided it was better to get rid of Howell, and the value from the Seahawk trade was too good to pass up.

 

If trading Howell is a sign that they are in on Maye, then I'm thrilled.  If they are gonna get Daniels or another, I'd have preferred we keep Howell.

[Warhead36]

4 minutes ago, DiscoBob said:

 

If trading Howell is a sign that they are in on Maye, then I'm thrilled.  If they are gonna get Daniels or another, I'd have preferred we keep Howell.

I honestly believe that Maye has been the pick for some time and everything else has been due dilligence and general media smoke/time filler.

[DogofWar1]

I want to reiterate how good a write up Rolo did.  I'd like it twice if I could.

 

I have refrained from reading too deeply into the notion that moving Howell means Maye.  There is a logic to it but it could go either way there.  So I would caution against too many readings of the tea leaves but its very possible in hindsight we'll say it was a signal of intent.

[actorguy1]

Jim Nagy on Pete Schrager's podcast:

 

" I was at the weigh ins for the LSU Pro Day, Jayden weighed in at 210lbs. I asked the strength coach, is that close to his playing weight? The coach says his playing weight was usually 212 or 213lbs."

[fanman8825]

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I honestly believe that Maye has been the pick for some time and everything else has been due dilligence and general media smoke/time filler.

I hope your right. Was reading on a site where Commander fans said that Daniels made M.Nabor’s and B. Thomas into the high first rounders that they are evaluated at.

To me Nabors is the best receiver in this draft. Seen enough film on him to know he would make any Qb better. I also like MHJR and Odunze a lot, but Nabors film is amazing

[DiscoBob]

1 minute ago, actorguy1 said:

Jim Nagy on Pete Schrager's podcast:

 

" I was at the weigh ins for the LSU Pro Day, Jayden weighed in at 210lbs. I asked the strength coach, is that close to his playing weight? The coach says his playing weight was usually 212 or 213lbs."

 

If that's true, it alleviates some of the concerns... that said, I wonder if he is being honest

[actorguy1]

My current take:

 

Draft analysts love Maye and see his ceiling being so high.

 

Coaches are more risk adverse and focus more on Maye's lower floor and instead chose Daniel's higher floor.

[Dah-Dee]

4 minutes ago, DiscoBob said:

 

If that's true, it alleviates some of the concerns... that said, I wonder if he is being honest

 

LSU HC Brian Kelly basically said the same thing during the season ('210 or a little more'), so my guess is Daniels has been 210-ish the last year or so, like LSU listed him.

Edited April 3 by Dah-Dee

[DogofWar1]

5 minutes ago, actorguy1 said:

Jim Nagy on Pete Schrager's podcast:

 

" I was at the weigh ins for the LSU Pro Day, Jayden weighed in at 210lbs. I asked the strength coach, is that close to his playing weight? The coach says his playing weight was usually 212 or 213lbs."

 

Yeahhhhhh that doesn't pass the eyeball test.  Dude looks skinny on game day compared to how he looked pro day.

 

Coaches say all sorts of stuff.  This is why I would always bring my own scale.