The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[CapsSkins]

Idk what's going to happen but I'd bet Magic Johnson is checking in with Caleb's father. Not tampering at all - just business.

[skinny21]

6 hours ago, oraphus said:

lol. Hell of a deductive logic you got there.  You don’t sign a backup qb at 6+mil for one year to have him compete with Howell for the backup job especially if you think Howell has a good chance of winning that competition.  

Is Mariota’s money guaranteed?  I mean, I’m not pretending to know what happens with Howell, but surely the options are open at this point…

 

Howell and Mariota compete for the backup job and the loser is cut/traded.

They compete, but we still carry 3 qbs into the season.

We trade Howell pre or post draft.

We trade Howell in-season once a qb goes down with injury.

Howell starts the year as the rookie (we presumably draft at 2) gets ready.

We trade out of #2 (this one’s highly doubtful IMO) and Howell/Mariota (and maybe a later pick) duke it out.

 

I get what it looks like though, so certainly not saying I think you’re wrong.  However, if I’m putting myself in Peters/Quinn’s shoes, especially given how other areas are being addressed, I want competition everywhere, including backup qb.  And I’m not making a decision about that competition until I have to - whether that’s roster cut-down day, or if someone offers me a reasonable/good deal for Howell.  My one caveat is if I’m worried about Howell’s presence somehow undermining the qb selected.  That’s an easy fix though in my mind - you throw your unconditional support behind the rookie, both in words and actions.

 

Gonna be interesting to see it play out.  My hunch is Howell has some admirers around the league and we deal him for more than a 5th during the draft, but who knows.

[FootballZombie]

I don't think we trade Howell just to trade him, it would take someone desperate overpaying and prying him off of our roster.

 

I think we'd be perfectly fine holding 3 QBs.

 

Unless someone wants to send a 3rd our way, and given recent trades like Jones and the non-existent market for Fields I don't think Howell fetches nearly that much, he will be here this year. Dropping him aint worth a 6th.

[oraphus]

1 hour ago, skinny21 said:

Is Mariota’s money guaranteed?  I mean, I’m not pretending to know what happens with Howell, but surely the options are open at this point…

 

Howell and Mariota compete for the backup job and the loser is cut/traded.

They compete, but we still carry 3 qbs into the season.

We trade Howell pre or post draft.

We trade Howell in-season once a qb goes down with injury.

Howell starts the year as the rookie (we presumably draft at 2) gets ready.

We trade out of #2 (this one’s highly doubtful IMO) and Howell/Mariota (and maybe a later pick) duke it out.

 

I get what it looks like though, so certainly not saying I think you’re wrong.  However, if I’m putting myself in Peters/Quinn’s shoes, especially given how other areas are being addressed, I want competition everywhere, including backup qb.  And I’m not making a decision about that competition until I have to - whether that’s roster cut-down day, or if someone offers me a reasonable/good deal for Howell.  My one caveat is if I’m worried about Howell’s presence somehow undermining the qb selected.  That’s an easy fix though in my mind - you throw your unconditional support behind the rookie, both in words and actions.

 

Gonna be interesting to see it play out.  My hunch is Howell has some admirers around the league and we deal him for more than a 5th during the draft, but who knows.

guys cmon... i mean yes, a hundred different things can happen. We could draft a qb at #2, but he breaks his leg going up to the podium and Mariota gets hit by car.. so Howell starts the season as the only QB on the roster 🤪

I am just looking at the most likely scenario and one that makes the most common sense....i guess i can be completely off base, but I doubt it, time will tell.

its between these 2 options to me:

They compete, but we still carry 3 qbs into the season.

We trade Howell pre or post draft.

*** and i highly doubt we get anything more than a 5th for him.

My point is that they know what they have in Mariota, there is plenty of tape and they did not bring him in to compete... they brought him to be the 1st string backup..and possibly even start the first few games if the rookie struggles. Its a 6mil min contract with up to 10mil (with incentives), thats a high end backup contract. You dont make that kind of commitment to a guy you dont expect to be pencilled in as the backup QB. its not like Harris has 6-10mil burning a whole in his pocket and he just wants to spend it on something.. and yachts are just not that cool anymore.

Also, this regime didnt draft Howell.. so they have no loyalty to him and based on the roster purge we saw over the last few weeks... they might want to send him packing as well.

 

Sure, i guess its possible that if Howell is on the roster in training camp and finds his inner Brady over the summer and looks so damn impressive in training camp, that he wins the job outright...  but i dont see it. (happy to be wrong though)   .. and i dont see his presence undermining a top drafted rookie, not even remotely... as a 5th rd pick that didnt play well he is basically a nobody on this roster.

 

 

Edited March 14 by oraphus

[Est.1974]

2 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

Idk what's going to happen but I'd bet Magic Johnson is checking in with Caleb's father. Not tampering at all - just business.

The fact Williams doesn’t have an agent is very convenient at this stage.

[Est.1974]

3 hours ago, SoCalSkins said:

I didn’t see if this was posted or not in this thread  but Caleb cancelling his Bears visit is pretty huge. He’s the presumptive first pick and refused to do medicals at the combine then cancels his Chicago visit where the medicals would take place. It’s not a move you make if you want to play for the Bears.
 

The drama on this is going to be intriguing. What if he refuses to do any medical with the Bears? Or refuses to reschedule his visit? He’s not obligated to do it. 

Seems clear he’s not that keen doesn’t it 

 

From what I can tell over the next 3 drafts 2024/5/6 we currently have 24 draft picks in our pocket. We’ve signed about 15 free agents and are still going. From what I can tell our future salary cap position has hardly been dented. We are still salary cap rich. We also have cash rich ownership.

 

People need to stop worrying over potentially trading away an extra 2 or 3 draft picks to get ourselves the absolute clear stud #1 QB prospects in the 2024 draft. 
 

It’s a no brainer. Especially with an ownership group and front office staff this ambitious.

[Darrell Green Fan]

8 hours ago, El Mexican said:

 

Howell is more than likely gone.

 

With the incumbent rookie QB and Mariotta he's now the odd man out.

 

Besides, lots of politics going around here.

Howell was hand-picked by RR and the new FO has demonstrated they want practically nothing to do with the old regime.

 

I'd take a 5th rounder for him and call it a day.

 

 

 

Oh I know he's probably gone, just that I'd like to keep him.  But my main point was his value and some fans will be disappointed in the return.  

[RandyHolt]

If APs real target is Caleb I think it'd be glorious to see Chicago get squeezed by Caleb. Sure its "all fan speculation" that Caleb doesnt want to go to Chicago but QBs have done it before so its not unprecedented to speculate especially with the tells we are seeing and of course months to kill the time. Chicago tap dancing about what to do with Fields; stuck with him since it seems no team is willing to pay a premium for him coupled with them feeling the pressure to not take Caleb if he may NOT want to play there... that hurts whatever perceived value the 1OA holds for the windy ****ty.  AP doesn't even have to overbid to try to trade up if he wants Caleb, he can almost just wait and let Caleb do the dirty work for him, and force Chicago to target a different QB or lower the asks on both their strong positions.  Just watch, somehow 2 years from now, Chicago will still be looking for a QB.

Edited March 14 by RandyHolt

[Skinsinparadise]

From JLK7299 (@JLK7299): Would the presence of Sam Howell make the Commanders wary of drafting his former backup with the second pick?

JLK, actually, no. My understanding is those two get along great. In fact, I heard the former Tar Heel teammates played a round of golf recently, near where Maye has been training in Alabama. I think having Howell on hand would be a benefit, not a detriment, when it comes to the Washington Commanders drafting Maye.

 

John, yes, the Las Vegas Raiders have had exploratory talks on moving up into the top three.

Will they do it? I don’t think the first three picks will wind up being traded, and, after you get past that, it depends on the team’s evaluation of McCarthy (and maybe a couple others). And from there, it depends on whether it gets to the point where the former Michigan QB won’t make it to No. 13 (which is certainly possible). We’ve still got a long way to go.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2024/03/13/free-agency-mailbag-justin-jefferson-vikings-trade-fields

 

Breer above

---

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, RandyHolt said:

If APs real target is Caleb I think it'd be glorious to see Chicago get squeezed by Caleb. Sure its "all fan speculation" that Caleb doesnt want to go to Chicago but QBs have done it before so its not unprecedented to speculate especially with the tells we are seeing and of course months to kill the time. Chicago tap dancing about what to do with Fields; stuck with him since it seems no team is willing to pay a premium for him coupled with them feeling the pressure to not take Caleb if he may want to play there... that hurts whatever perceived value the 1OA holds for the windy ****ty.  AP doesn't even have to overbid to try to trade up if he wants Caleb, he can almost just wait and let Caleb do the dirty work for him, and force Chicago to target a different QB or lower the asks on both their strong positions.  Just watch, somehow 2 years from now, Chicago will still be looking for a QB.

 

Be wild.  We defintely don't know who AP's real target is.

 

In all my years of following the draft and obsessively subscribing to everything football related, almost every dratt podcast, etc.  The vibe i get is I or name that person here have a better chance to be the next QB here than Caleb.

 

Every now and then you get some random media speculation about it.  But that's the case on almost everything.  Like hey Adam Peters is hot for Belichick. Or maybe we chase Kirk Cousins in FA. Or name that random rumor. 

 

But when it comes to the local media guys, especially Keim, or Bears reporters talking about this -- feels like 99.99% chance Caleb will be a Bear.

 

And while I am not one of these people here who think Caleb or bust.  I am in the conventional thinking that its Caleb being the best then Maye then Daniels with all three with massive potential.  My point is I'd be more than cool with Caleb.  But i think we are likely wasting our time pining about it as a serious possibility.  Super long shot and while anything in life is possible, and nothing can be ruled out -- sure, I can ride with that.  It doesn't feel like even remotely a viable-likely scenario to me. 

 

I do though agree the draft wouldn't be the draft if there wasn't at least some speculation that the team picking first will trade their pick and to bank on the entertainment value on some shocking event.  I've heard the NFL sees the draft process as something that is supposed to be entertaining to keep NFL fans guessing.  And if some want to indulge in that its of course cool.  But speaking for myself, it would be one of the more shocking things I'd ever seen in the draft process considering the bread crumbs seem so the opposite.  lol, it would also shake my belief in John Keim for the first time or Keim would have been played in a big way for the first time that I can recall. 

Edited March 14 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

For those saying Magic needs to get to Caleb directly.  Reading this article from the Athletic, it might be his dad who has to be the target. 

 

 

 

[kingdaddy]

5 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

I don't think we trade Howell just to trade him, it would take someone desperate overpaying and prying him off of our roster.

 

I think we'd be perfectly fine holding 3 QBs.

 

Unless someone wants to send a 3rd our way, and given recent trades like Jones and the non-existent market for Fields I don't think Howell fetches nearly that much, he will be here this year. Dropping him aint worth a 6th.

Couple things here:

I can see a scenario where Howell beats out a rookie and starts the season as the QB1 and the rookie gets mixed in accordingly.

I think Howell is actually a more coveted player in many respects than Fields because you don't have the 23 million dollar financial commitment you need to make towards him this May. Howell still has two cheap years left on his rookie deal and is still a pretty good prospect. Fields is gonna cost you big dollars and is surrounded by question marks as a QB even with his tremendous athleticism.

Howell has value in that he's durable and has shown that he can play given enough support. I hope we don't trade him just to trade him for a pick unless someone like Rattler is who we're going to take because we'd like to see what he can do at the pro level. 

[Warhead36]

Im tired of dealing with over involved dads. 

[Est.1974]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

Im tired of dealing with over involved dads. 

What, generally ?

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, Warhead36 said:

Im tired of dealing with over involved dads. 

 

Judging by that Athletic article, Caleb's dad is likely driving the don't do the medicals, don't bother with pro days, etc.

[Est.1974]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Judging by that Athletic article, Caleb's dad is likely driving the don't do the medicals, don't bother with pro days, etc.

I think it was reported he’s also challenging the rookie wage scale. It would come with complications for sure.

[Warhead36]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Judging by that Athletic article, Caleb's dad is likely driving the don't do the medicals, don't bother with pro days, etc.

Yep and eventually hell call out the playcalling, a WR for dropping a pass, etc. 

 

Massive headache inc

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I think it was reported he’s also challenging the rookie wage scale. It would come with complications for sure.

 

lol, i am not in the Caleb is likely coming here camp.  I think its a mega long shot.   But if I was into let Magic turn Caleb against the Bears and in favor of the Commanders -- feels like Caleb's dad would be the more powerful target than Caleb.

 

We recall RG3's dad being involved with him but sounds like Caleb's dad is RG3's dad on steroids. 

Edited March 14 by Skinsinparadise

[RandyHolt]

I'll die on the hill opposing the theory that it kills a highly touted rookies career, if there is another youngish QB on the roster.  We hear experts support the 1 QB theory every year. Gotta trade Howell if we take a QB. Can anyone ever recall a proven QB say being handed the job was what made him succeed? Or a failed QB, blame a younger lessor QB on the roster for his failure? Is there any proof? It seems all psychological, so if you aint a sports psychologist understand why I climb my hill waiting for proof to knock me off. 

 

If the QB is that fragile mentally that he is derailed by looking over his shoulder at his young backup (but not a vet backup?), and not by a Micah Parsons at 25mph with a clear path to taking his head off because our LT got confused by a stunt, his chances of succeeding as a franchise QB are very low.

 

The position commands mental toughness; first and foremost over physical IMO. It all starts in camp, where competition abounds (and the QB never gets hit at all - no real physical challenge). Building up to the game day ultimate competition test.

 

 

Edited March 14 by RandyHolt

[Est.1974]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

lol, i am not in the Caleb is likely coming here camp.  I think its a mega long shot.   But if I was into let Magic turn Caleb against the Bears and in favor of the Commanders -- feels like Caleb's dad would be the more powerful target than Caleb.

 

We recall RG3's dad being involved with him but sounds like Caleb's dad is RG3's dad on steroids. 

I have more faith in the current ownership and front office groups to manage that kind of relationship more professionally now.

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I have more faith in the current ownership and front office groups to manage that kind of relationship more professionally now.

 

I don't care too much.  If Caleb's dad tells him to blow off medicals and pro days, etc, he can pull it off because its not mandatory.  But as for stuff like opposing the rookie wage scale or wanting ownership percentage or whatever, his dad can press for it but it won't matter because it goes against NFL rules.

 

I think maybe 1% chance tops Caleb ends up here.  I agree with you that this regime is aggressive.  And i like that.  But we don't know if they are hopped up on Caleb.  That's a mystery.  But it also takes two to tango for a trade of course.

 

According to Keim he's heard from multiple people there they really really are excited about having a draft with the number of picks they got.  It's an opportunity to reshape the roster with cheap young talent and they are jazzed about that.  So for them to abandon ship on that mindset they'd have to be totally smitten with Caleb.  We got no idea if they are or not.  No one who covers this team that i can think of think its going down.

 

For me, unlike some here, I am good with it happening but I've been on the record saying it would be shocking to me if it did.  I'd be beyond stunned. But will see.

Edited March 14 by Skinsinparadise

[seantaylor=god]

24 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

I'll die on the hill opposing the theory that it kills a highly touted rookies career, if there is another youngish QB on the roster.  We hear experts support the 1 QB theory every year. Gotta trade Howell if we take a QB. Can anyone ever recall a proven QB say being handed the job was what made him succeed? Or a failed QB, blame a younger lessor QB on the roster for his failure? Is there any proof? It seems all psychological, so if you aint a sports psychologist understand why I climb my hill waiting for proof to knock me off. 

 

If the QB is that fragile mentally that he is derailed by looking over his shoulder at his backup, and not by a Micah Parsons at 25mph with a clear path to taking his head off because our LT got confused by a stunt, his chances of succeeding as a franchise QB are very low.

 

The position commands mental toughness; first and foremost over physical IMO. It all starts in camp, where competition abounds. Building up to the game day ultimate competition test.

 

 

I think it has less to do with the QB psyche than pressure on coach/decision makers. If QB1 struggles, coaches could start looking at QB2 with more interest when they should be investing all of their time in making the QB1/coach relationship work.

 

Sort of like if you were married but your ex girlfriend lived next door…

 

But I also agree generally.

[Est.1974]

22 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

According to Keim he's heard from multiple people there they really really are excited about having a draft with the number of picks they got.  It's an opportunity to reshape the roster with cheap young talent and they are jazzed about that.  So for them to abandon ship on that mindset they'd have to be totally smitten with Caleb.  We got no idea if they are or not.  No one who covers this team that i can think of think its going down.

 

I’m not that convinced Keim is as plugged in as you think. However, he does seem the best of the bunch.

 

I’d also say that a trade up is not abandoning any ship really. If we currently have 24 picks over the next 3 drafts, a trade would make that say 21, still plenty. Plus you move on Howell etc. Plus the rep on Peters is his mid/late round hits.

 

It’s an exaggerated view point to suggest a trade up is abandoning a ‘build through the draft’ strategy. It would be a move now to get the best QB. Chances are you don’t face such a decision again for many years. 

 

Just like FA, it’s a ‘now’ approach to sign probably 20 players because that is the best plan for right now. It won’t be a long term approach. Likely doesn’t happen again with this regime.
 

Same logic applies to the draft. 
 

Edited March 14 by Est.1974

[RandyHolt]

14 minutes ago, seantaylor=god said:

I think it has less to do with the QB psyche than pressure on coach/decision makers. If QB1 struggles, coaches could start looking at QB2 with more interest when they should be investing all of their time in making the QB1/coach relationship work.

 

Sort of like if you were married but your ex girlfriend lived next door…

 

But I also agree generally.

Great analogy!  hmmm but it seems like some lucky ****s have found a way to get all 3 to play well together though.

 

Maybe the root of the problem that some ahem unnamed folks may attest to, is marriage in the first place. Don't go all in; keep options open.  On a completely unrelated note, is the rate at which relationships fail happen to be the same rate that QBs fail?

Edited March 14 by RandyHolt

[DJHJR86]

Howell for a 4th is a no brainer.  If they really want 3 quarterbacks on their roster, they have the #2 pick, Mariota, and Fromm.