The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Warhead36]

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

So you're both "pining" for a QB like Brissett and dissing people who are mentioning him. 

 

Got it.

I'm not pining for any vet. I want to draft someone. I just don't think its gonna happen because of the ownership situation. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

Edited January 7, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

10 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I'm not pining for any vet. I want to draft someone. I just don't think its gonna happen because of the ownership situation. 

I made the comment that I want Brissett and to draft someone.

You posted about people pining for Brissett

I ask you what you want and it's the same thing I said, only less specific.

 

Right? You want a vet? Who? or you only want rookies and no vet?

[Skinsinparadise]

Speaking for myself to double down on what I've said recently.  

 

While Brissett isn't my top desire this off season, if they elect to go cheap at that spot, he fits the mold to me.  Might be the most obvious choice considering I am doubting Dan would want to spend big on any player as he heads out, tough enough to get him to spend when he was intending to stay.

 

A. Leader

B.  Coming off a decent year

C.  Bringing sneaky mobility, run threat

D. Keim said he heard from someone in the know he's a good match to this system 

 

Heck as we saw last Sunday he can actually got a yard in a QB sneak, we've sucked on 4th and 1.   6 '4, 235 pounds.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 7, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[88Comrade2000]

44 minutes ago, samy316 said:

 

The problem with that is we're going to be picking from the scrap heap during free agency.  No viable, decent QB will want to come here.  The ownership question might be resolved around the time FA begins, but the stink of this organization, and our spending ability will result in better QB's considering teams other than WSH.  I would be shocked if Carr or Jimmy G. even gave this FO the time of day to do an interview.  They both might laugh and hang up the phone when we come calling.  I forgot that Brady will also be an FA this offseason, and he's going to be highly coveted too.  I see us getting either Mayfield or Brissett, and having Howell as a backup behind either.  If we get Mayfield, we should consider ourselves lucky.  Mayfield might be the only QB available in FA that can get Ron a wildcard spot next year.  He'll probably come in at a reasonable price too.  It would allow us to resign Payne.

Mayfield or Brissett would seem logical.

 

Do we want to resign Payne.  That’s a lot of money to allocate to on position and we have to sign between sweat and chase in the future. We did draft Payne’s replacement; though he spent year on ir.

[shemp nixon]

55 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I'm not pining for any vet. I want to draft someone. I just don't think its gonna happen because of the ownership situation. 

I'm OK with Brissett if he is here to compete with Howell. I see Brissett as a good back-up.

[Redskins 2021]

Make sense Brissett or Mayfield. I think they franchise Payne. I think we have to resign Payne some way.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 7, 2023 by Redskins 2021

[Jumbo]

4 hours ago, zCommander said:

 

@Koolblue13 must be off his meds again 🤣😂🤣

 

You should talk. You could use some. 🤣😂🤣

[Skinsinparadise]

Keim mentioned in his last podcast, Turner is on the spot some this Sunday among others, he rarely says stuff that is just purely his opinion.  

 

 

In the Washington Commanders’ locker room Sunday, players’ simmering frustrations with offensive coordinator Scott Turner’s play-calling boiled over. Asked why the offense didn’t have a spark in a 24-10 loss to the Cleveland Browns, one veteran said: “Ask the play-caller.”

 

Later, tight end Logan Thomas was asked if he thought the play-calling put players in the best position to succeed.

 

“The way I put it is: We got so much talent, we should be scoring more points than we have [been],” he told reporters.

Nine other Commanders, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to be candid about a coach, expressed frustration with the play-calling. They complained about predictability, an abandonment of the game plan against Cleveland and Turner’s tendency to deviate from plays that are working, which several players described as the coordinator “outsmarting” himself. They suggested Browns defenders had anticipated their plays in the loss that effectively ended the Commanders’ season.

 

 

NFL Next Gen Stats tracks “get-off” — the average time it takes for a rusher to cross the line of scrimmage — and against Washington, Cleveland’s get-off was 0.79 seconds, the fifth-quickest rate by any team in any game this year.

Despite Washington’s significant investment in its offense last offseason, the unit has been a disappointment. The Commanders rank 26th in the NFL in offensive points per game (17.5) and 27th in Expected Points Added, according to TruMedia, both steps back from 2021. The offense collapsed down the stretch, and it is the primary reason the team sank from the NFC’s sixth seed on Dec. 18 to elimination three weeks later.

 

Yet blame is complex. Quarterback play has been subpar, and the personnel department, ultimately helmed by Coach Ron Rivera, built a line with glaring deficiencies. The offense often fought uphill — it had the league’s worst average starting field position — and struggled to sustain drives, hit explosive plays and finish in the red zone.

 

This week, players consistently pointed fingers at play-calling but acknowledged there were other issues. Some said there was sometimes poor communication between offensive position groups. Sunday’s season finale — when rookie quarterback Sam Howell and other young players will take the spotlight — could help Rivera make final evaluations of Turner and what went wrong.

If team owner Daniel Snyder retains Rivera in the offseason, which seems likely, especially considering the prospect of a potential sale, it will be the coach’s responsibility to parse the offense’s biggest problems and decide what to change.

Turner and Rivera declined to comment for this story. Asked during a news conference Thursday if he was worried about being fired, Turner said: “That’s just part of this league. It could happen. It could happen to anybody.”

 

In Turner’s first two seasons, personnel turnover made it hard to judge his work. Washington cycled through six quarterbacks and had limited playmaking talent outside of receiver Terry McLaurin, running back Antonio Gibson and Thomas. Early this season, the unit made some progress, scoring 28 points in Week 1 and 27 in Week 2.

 

But the offense faltered in bad losses to Philadelphia, Dallas and Tennessee. In Week 6, before a 12-7 win over Chicago, “Thursday Night Football” analyst Ryan Fitzpatrick criticized Turner’s scheme, saying it contrasted with the adaptable, player-friendly schemes popular in the modern NFL.

“This is a plug-and-play system,” Fitzpatrick, who played briefly for Washington in 2021, said. “They’re not going to dial up plays and make up something that would suit Carson’s game, or maybe something that would suit Terry’s game to get him the ball early.”

Once Washington turned to Taylor Heinicke after Wentz’s finger injury, Turner leaned into the identity the offense had developed during a four-game winning streak in 2021, running downhill and throwing off play action. The Commanders were more competitive and pulled off a major upset, beating then-undefeated Philadelphia on the road.

 

Two weeks later, against the Atlanta Falcons, two people said, the Commanders’ first drive was an example of Turner at his best. On the first play, he called hard play action off the run concept “duo,” which had become a staple for the offense. The fake fooled the Falcons’ linebackers, sucked them toward the line of scrimmage and opened a big throwing window for Heinicke, who hit McLaurin for 26 yards. They went on to score a touchdown, and Turner kept the Falcons’ defense off balance for most of the game with similar looks and fakes.

 

Three weeks after that, on “Sunday Night Football,” Turner opened with a plan at least three players questioned. Instead of sticking to downhill runs and play action, he tried more drop-back passing and edge runs out of shotgun. In the first half, the offense looked impotent, scoring once in five drives (a field goal) and allowing a strip sack that was returned for a touchdown.

 

On a first down late in the third quarter, Brian Robinson Jr. plowed downhill for seven yards. But on second down, Turner called a flea-flicker, and on third, a run up the middle for Curtis Samuel went for two. Why, players wondered, did they abandon what had just worked well?

 

“Sometimes, it feels like he expects [adjustments from the defense], or he calls something just because we put it in that week,” one player said.

 

...The person conceded Turner is hamstrung by his personnel but argued he could provide easier answers.

 

“[It’s] your job to put these guys in better spots to be successful,” the person said. “Are you doing everything you can to elevate this group?”

 

“I feel bad for Carson,” one player said. “I don’t think we knew how to utilize him.”

Another player suggested the Browns loss wasn’t on Turner. The player said Wentz, under pressure to save his career, seemed affected before the game even began.

 

...Rivera is known for his loyalty, and he coached with Turner’s father, Norv Turner, for years. But in the past, if Rivera has felt it truly necessary, he has fired those with whom he’s close. In August, it was defensive line coach Sam Mills III, with whom he worked for several seasons in Carolina.

 

In Friday news conferences this season, Rivera has often been in a good mood. He’s given expansive updates and explanations. But this Friday, when asked to evaluate Turner’s performance this year, he seemed circumspect.

 

Edited January 7, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[zCommander]

6 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

 

You should talk. You could use some. 🤣😂🤣

 

Those days I left behind back in early 90s. 

The wife and the kids are the only drugs these days ... Okay nevermind I see your point 😂

[Rufus T Firefly]

4 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I could also see the league disallowing any such major trades while the ownership situation is in flux, which might be in our best interest.

I don't see anything like that happening.

 

Likely will be close to a new owner by the time the offseason starts in earnest. Will just be waiting on final negotiations, background research, league approval. Surely they would expect Snyder to direct Ron and Co not to do anything major. 

 

So the only way what you're suggesting would happen is if Snyder did something stupid and reckless and.....

 

Okay, I hear it now. 

[Jumbo]

 

Three people I'd like to see gone the most for the teams sake are wentz, heinie, and turner.

 

Next priority is to get  RR away from HC duties---under the reality that Dan's got to go and a new GM needs to be put in place by new ownership as the first movie for them.

 

If RR is someone the new FO would want around in some "team culture management role", even just transitionally, I'm ok with that.

 

 

[Thinking Skins]

THis probablt doesn't belong here, but I'm using the Chat GBT to generate a story where Heinicke leads the team to the SB. I won't post the story in this thread but when its finished I'll put it in tailgate. I am trying to get the Bot to get all the details right. THey had Heinicke winning MVP and throwing 300+ yards and 5 TDs in the SB. I was like woah there, lets calm this down a bit and make it believable. 

[Rufus T Firefly]

8 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

THis probablt doesn't belong here, but I'm using the Chat GBT to generate a story where Heinicke leads the team to the SB. I won't post the story in this thread but when its finished I'll put it in tailgate. I am trying to get the Bot to get all the details right. THey had Heinicke winning MVP and throwing 300+ yards and 5 TDs in the SB. I was like woah there, lets calm this down a bit and make it believable. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

THis probablt doesn't belong here, but I'm using the Chat GBT to generate a story where Heinicke leads the team to the SB. I won't post the story in this thread but when its finished I'll put it in tailgate. I am trying to get the Bot to get all the details right. THey had Heinicke winning MVP and throwing 300+ yards and 5 TDs in the SB. I was like woah there, lets calm this down a bit and make it believable. 

 
Are you sure that you weren’t just looking for an excuse to put Heinicke’s name with the word Super Bowl in a post and this simply gave you the excuse to do it? 🤣

[Jumbo]

2 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

THis probablt doesn't belong here, but I'm using the Chat GBT to generate a story where Heinicke leads the team to the SB. I won't post the story in this thread but when its finished I'll put it in tailgate. I am trying to get the Bot to get all the details right. THey had Heinicke winning MVP and throwing 300+ yards and 5 TDs in the SB. I was like woah there, lets calm this down a bit and make it believable. 

 

 

 No you won't put it in the tailgate. We've already allowed a football topic in there with some trepidation as we've done a few times----and only a few over the last 15 years-----before, and there's no way we're gonna make a habit out having pro football topics in the tailgate, especially one that lame. Jeez. Maybe it is a cult. 😜

 

(this isn't going to be a conversation)

[SkinsGuy]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

"This is a plug-and-play system,” Fitzpatrick, who played briefly for Washington in 2021said

 

VERY briefly. 🤔

Edited January 7, 2023 by SkinsGuy

[mistertim]

4 hours ago, Jumbo said:

 

You should talk. You could use some. 🤣😂🤣

 

Can you use your mod powers to make them share? My shrink cut me off.

[zCommander]

15 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Can you use your mod powers to make them share? My shrink cut me off.

 

My shrink is run by the state department. I have open access to these: 

 

[Jumbo]

14 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Can you use your mod powers to make them share? My shrink cut me off.

 

 

I know. We've gone to the same conventions.

I called him and told him to cut you off.

[mistertim]

Regarding the offensive woes and the story about Turner, I think it's still tough to know for sure where the biggest problems were, but I'm guessing it's nuanced and a combination of having two crappy QBs, a crappy OL, and a play caller who can make very questionable decisions and may be "outsmarting himself"

 

Turner seems to be really good with motions and varied looks to get defenses off balance, but I also agree with the article on how he too often seems to get away from stuff that's working, makes completely bizarro calls at times that make no sense (though it now might make more sense in light of the "he just puts it in the plan if we installed it that week" comment), and doesn't appear to adjust very well...which could be a byproduct of having more of a rigid "plug and play" system.

 

Regarding Brissett, I'd be ok with him. Not my first choice, and nothing special, but he may be one of the only semi-decent QBs who might be willing to come here. He's ok but not great as a passer, good size, good but not great arm, seems like a good dude. We could do worse, but my hope would be that Howell shows flashes and could potentially be the guy.

 

I doubt anything major is going to change until there's new ownership, though.

[tmandoug1]

Three crappy QBs right? If Howell was a good QB he would have started...if he had any semblance of a dude that could take a three, five, or seven step drop he would have gotten the nod right?  Why hasn't he gotten the nod before or after the other two crappy QBs. 

[JSSkinz]

Scott may be creative when it comes to designing plays but when it comes to calling them he is awful, its as if he has no situational awareness.  He rarely lets the offense get in a rhythm and when they do it all falls apart when we get to the opponents 30 yard line. When the players notice it and lose confidence its time to move on.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

20 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

Three crappy QBs right? If Howell was a good QB he would have started...if he had any semblance of a dude that could take a three, five, or seven step drop he would have gotten the nod right?  Why hasn't he gotten the nod before or after the other two crappy QBs. 

Arrive tomorrow at 7pm sharp to eat your fat plate of crow. 😆

 

All kidding aside though…this take is trash. 

[Skinsinparadise]

59 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Regarding the offensive woes and the story about Turner, I think it's still tough to know for sure where the biggest problems were, but I'm guessing it's nuanced and a combination of having two crappy QBs, a crappy OL, and a play caller who can make very questionable decisions and may be "outsmarting himself"

 

Turner seems to be really good with motions and varied looks to get defenses off balance, but I also agree with the article on how he too often seems to get away from stuff that's working, makes completely bizarro calls at times that make no sense (though it now might make more sense in light of the "he just puts it in the plan if we installed it that week" comment), and doesn't appear to adjust very well...which could be a byproduct of having more of a rigid "plug and play" system.

 

Regarding Brissett, I'd be ok with him. Not my first choice, and nothing special, but he may be one of the only semi-decent QBs who might be willing to come here. He's ok but not great as a passer, good size, good but not great arm, seems like a good dude. We could do worse, but my hope would be that Howell shows flashes and could potentially be the guy.

 

I doubt anything major is going to change until there's new ownership, though.

 

My feeling is that Scott majors in Marty ball and calls a game like that well.   I think he can be clever in the way they run the ball by using motion, they execute duo-power runs well, etc.

 

As far as a let it fly modern day offense, like Kyle Shanny, Andy Reid, etc, he's really bad at that.  

Edited January 8, 2023 by Skinsinparadise