The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[ThePackisback]

You guys are in the wildcard hunt totally now.

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

Add in Russell Wilson and Aaron Rodgers...just a weird QB season lol.

 

I think you could add in almost every major QB change this year. Mariota started OK but is not doing well now. Waston has yet to play due to suspension so at least part of that gamble did not pay off. Baker Mayfield? ****. Sam Darnold? ****. Mitch T? ****.   Jimmy G had to take a pay cut to stay and he is gonig OK. I still would not want him here. 

 

So yea, it's been a really bad season for QBs changing teams or resigning to stay. 

 

 

[DJHJR86]

A Colts fan's comment on reddit:

"Our OLine is the issue. Ryan is immobile and any time he moves out of the pocket without it being a design is a huge win for the defense as he usually gets sacked, fumbles, throws a risky pass, throws it away, or runs stumbling for 1 yard. Foles would be more of the same immobility. Sam is a lot more mobile which hopefully will allow him to make something out of nothing when the inevitable free rusher comes at him 5+ times per game from a stunt on Matt Pryor."

Sound familiar?

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

 

 

This is the primary reason I was ultimatly OK with the trade. Yea, would have been nice to get the Colts to take some of his salary but it's done. I had hopes he would get his issues fixed coming here with better weapons and what we thought would be a better oline. He wsa set up for at least some success.

 

But I have seen enough as most everyone else has. Oline is **** but he has done nothing since gm 1 to suggest he should be given a 2nd season. Keep his ass on the bench and cut him at the end of the season. Play TH, play Howell, Play who ever you want. Just keep Carson off the field so you keep the pick to a 3rd and release him at the end of the season. 

 

Someone suggested there could be some kind of lawsuit from the NFLPA if we keep him benched and it;s celarly to keep him from making 70% of the snaps. They have no case and they know it. Teams can do what they want in that regard. 

[ThePackisback]

What happened to Wentz? He was awesome a few years back. Now he is struggling. He struggled his last year in Philly too.

[HigSkin]

1 hour ago, Redskins 2021 said:

 I think I was reading that Ryan separated his shoulder.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

33 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

I don't think Matt Ryan, on his absolute best day of quarterbacking ever, would have ever been confused with Peyton Manning.  Admittedly, I've always thought Matt Ryan was a bit overrated but still.  Sheesh, that's a terrible quote from someone who should know better.

 

I think Matt Ryan had an underrated career.  in his heyday he was a top 10 QB, bottom of the top 10 for a good stretch of time IMO.  But father age catches up with some QBs, heck maybe even Aaron Rodgers it looks like.  Ryan looked to be declining last year.   Some narrative that changing teams might revive him, clearly it hasn't.

 

All these off season moves at QB aren't looking hot. 

21 minutes ago, ThePackisback said:

What happened to Wentz? He was awesome a few years back. Now he is struggling. He struggled his last year in Philly too.

 

I think in short is he was never that accurate but made up for it by his escapability in the pocket.  But now he's lost his escapability so his mediocre at best accuracy is exposed.

[Rufus T Firefly]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I think in short is he was never that accurate but made up for it by his escapability in the pocket.  But now he's lost his escapability so his mediocre at best accuracy is exposed.

I think that's an accurate summation of a lot of it. 

 

I would say he seems fragile mentally. Seemed upset with Foles' success, then lost that locker room, went to Indy, lost that locker room. Now, he seems scared of getting hit. Which seems like it could be a combo of insecurity and the rash of injuries (and a bad OLine). 

[Conn]

Irsay tonight:

 

 

[Rufus T Firefly]

 

[CommanderDOOM]

35 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

 

Gibbs

[CapsSkins]

3 hours ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

A different mediocre QB?

 

 

Different mediocre QB? Mediocre would be an upgrade from what we're seeing this season out of both guys.

[DJHJR86]

I was baffled at the excitement some members of the fanbase had when they went and signed Ryan Fitzpatrick going into 2020.  Seemed really weird to sign him and basically guarantee him the starter spot, because his track record left a little to be desired.  There was also this common misconception that he was going to come in and while turning the ball over, he was going to be "exciting" and tossing a bunch of touchdowns here.  Well, here are the per season averages comparing 2 quarterbacks (a 17 season average):

 

QB1:

23 TDs

17 INTs

62.1% Completion

3857 Yards

85.5 Passer Rating

6.8 AY/A

 

QB2:

22 TDs

16 INTs

64.7% Completion

3620 Yards

85.9 Passer Rating

6.3 AY/A

 

QB1 is Fitzpatrick.  QB2 is Heinicke.  That is the comp for Heinicke.  And these averages are over the last 5 years (prior to Washington) of Fitzpatrick's career.  And those Heinicke numbers are from his first 17 regular season games with the team (including the one Fitzpatrick started because he played in the majority of that).  The numbers show that they are very similar quarterbacks.  But with Fitzpatrick there seemed to be an understanding that Fitztragic would rear its ugly head.  With Heinicke there seems to be denial from the "hivers" that he's going to have bad games, but there is also denial from the "haters" who seem to refuse to admit that he can also have good games mixed in.  The defenses may not have "figured him out" as much as he's just due to have a tragic like game for every good game he has.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

I think that's an accurate summation of a lot of it. 

 

I would say he seems fragile mentally. Seemed upset with Foles' success, then lost that locker room, went to Indy, lost that locker room. Now, he seems scared of getting hit. Which seems like it could be a combo of insecurity and the rash of injuries (and a bad OLine). 

 

Could be.  He seems to play without much energy-oomph and gets rattled.  I was at the Eagles game and the Eagle crowd there was an intense as I've seen from any road crowd -- I don't know for sure but it felt that his fragililty was part of the meltdown performance.

 

Some of the Colts reporters and some Wentz critics talked about this in the off season, lack of mental toughness, playing well in big pressure spots -- they seem to be right thus far.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

QB1 is Fitzpatrick.  QB2 is Heinicke.  That is the comp for Heinicke.  And these averages are over the last 5 years (prior to Washington) of Fitzpatrick's career.  And those Heinicke numbers are from his first 17 regular season games with the team (including the one Fitzpatrick started because he played in the majority of that).  The numbers show that they are very similar quarterbacks.  But with Fitzpatrick there seemed to be an understanding that Fitztragic would rear its ugly head.  With Heinicke there seems to be denial from the "hivers" that he's going to have bad games, but there is also denial from the "haters" who seem to refuse to admit that he can also have good games mixed in.  The defenses may not have "figured him out" as much as he's just due to have a tragic like game for every good game he has.

 

Having watched both of them throw back to back in camp.  IMO the reason why Fitz is better than Heinicke is two fold.

 

A.  Fitz doesn't have a strong arm.  But the dude looked like John Elway throwing back to back with Taylor.  Arm strength for Fitz a clear peg higher.

 

B.  They both (and I mentioned that during camp on the board) are streaky as heck accuracy wise, they can be on fire and then just go cold.  But Heinicke's inconsistency was more on display than Fitz.

 

The #1 thing you can see in camp IMO is apples to apples QB versus QB because they have them throw the same routes back to back over and over again.  I watched if I recall a good 6 practices and you can see a lot of throws -- back to back to back.

 

But I get the point about their similarities.  Neither has a strong arm.  Both are hot and cold.  Both play with moxie and their teaamates love them.  IMHO Heinicke though is a poor man's version of Fitz.

 

 

[DJHJR86]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

But I get the point about their similarities.  Neither has a strong arm.  Both are hot and cold.  Both play with moxie and their teaamates love them.  IMHO Heinicke though is a poor man's version of Fitz.

 

I would say Fitzpatrick has the better arm, but Heinicke is better at escaping and moving around in the pocket.  

[Rufus T Firefly]

11 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

 

Different mediocre QB? Mediocre would be an upgrade from what we're seeing this season out of both guys.

And we all know that a slight upgrade in mediocrity at QB is the key to success in the NFL.

 

[CapsSkins]

13 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

And we all know that a slight upgrade in mediocrity at QB is the key to success in the NFL.

 

It's far easier to make smug, condescending, low-effort, strawman statements that re-state obvious points than trying to find the best decision in a stack of bad options.

 

Given where we are and the data we have, I believe the FO/coaching staff's best option would be to sign a guy like Jimmy G to make the team competitive while developing the young project QB in Howell and addressing other parts of the roster. Once the team is "a QB away", it becomes easier to either 1) make a big trade-up to draft a day 1 starter, or 2) land an upper-echelon starter via FA or trade in the event one becomes available.

 

Starting QBs don't often leave their teams and become available; if/when they do, they go to teams on the bubble, not teams in no-man's land. 

 

Big trade-ups in the draft only make sense if you intend to compete for a SB right away and you won't miss the draft capital as much, a la what the Rams did.

 

Finally, Jimmy G would not be a "slight" upgrade at QB compared to what we've seen this year from Wentz and Taylor Heinicke. I don't think you believe that, either. I think you're only saying that in an effort to be extra condescending.

 

Now that I think about it, another option would be trying to pry Mac Jones from New England via trade in the event Belichick is willing to part with him given what they saw out of Zappe. Or hell, maybe vice versa.

 

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by CapsSkins

[Redskins 2021]

There was no Qb available last off season that would have made this team better. I am glad they at least tried with Wentz. It appears it will not work out.  It will cost a third round pick I can live with that.

 

The only one available last offseason who may have been a major upgrade was D. Watson and it is understandable why we would not want him. Mariota may have been a better fit then Wentz. I don't think we would have been much better with him.

 

Wentz has probably been the best of all the Qb who changed teams.  We should play Heinicke until we are out of playoffs probably week 11 and then see what we have in Howell.

 

If we draft a Qb next year we need a guy who can run and throw. If Heinicke arm was stronger he would be great. Lack of arm strength makes him just good. We have to draft or develop a Qb. The odds of a team letting a Qb go who is good is about zero.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[zCommander]

7 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

There was no Qb available last off season that would have made this team better. I am glad they at least tried with Wentz. It appears it will not work out.  It will cost a third round pick I can live with that.

 

The only one available last offseason who may have been a major upgrade was D. Watson and it is understandable why we would not want him. Mariota may have been a better fit then Wentz. I don't think we would have been much better with him.

 

Wentz has probably been the best of all the Qb who changed teams.  We should play Heinicke until we are out of playoffs probably week 11 and then see what we have in Howell.

 

If we draft a Qb next year we need a guy who can run and throw. If Heinicke arm was stronger he be great. Lack of arm strength makes him just good.

 

Mariotta would have been a cheaper one year rental date though. 

[Redskins 2021]

7 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Mariotta would have been a cheaper one year rental date though. 

 I think it is fair to say Mariotta would have been a better signing then Wentz looking at things now. He would have been a better fit.

 I think they had to do something last year after they did not get Wilson this was the biggest splash they could make getting Wentz.

 I have to wonder if Snyder pushed for Wentz alittle bit after not getting Wilson. I am glad they at least tried something. 

Edited October 24, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, DJHJR86 said:

but there is also denial from the "haters" who seem to refuse to admit that he can also have good games mixed in.  The defenses may not have "figured him out" as much as he's just due to have a tragic like game for every good game he has.

I don’t see it that way at all.  We were all here for the Giants and Falcons games last season, we saw him play during the 4 game winning streak.  We are well aware that he can play and make things interesting.

 

I just see playing Heineke for any extended period of time as an exercise in futility.  We know who he is and while he’s not all bad, he’s not a franchise QB.  We need a franchise QB and we don’t need feel good wins to sidetrack that possibility.

 

Edit: I’d like to add that I’m aware the coaches and players don’t feel the same as me.  Obviously, they haven’t given up and want to win.  I just don’t think that’s healthy for a variety of reasons.  Very costly fools gold.

Edited October 24, 2022 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[Rufus T Firefly]

33 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

It's far easier to make smug, condescending, low-effort, strawman statements that re-state obvious points than trying to find the best decision in a stack of bad options.

First off, I put a lot of effort into my smug and condescending statements. I think I've established that in my years here. 

 

The key to winning in the NFL is to have a franchise QB. Jimmy G is a million miles from that. So he's not any kind of a solution. 

 

In fact, what he would be is a guy who'd eat up cap space that could be used more wisely while perhaps stealing the team a couple of Ws which would hurt their draft position and make it harder to find a franchise QB.

 

So Jimmy G isn't only not a solution, he gets you further away from finding a solution.

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, CapsSkins said:

 

 

Different mediocre QB? Mediocre would be an upgrade from what we're seeing this season out of both guys.

 

But still mediocre...

 

 

[ThomasRoane]

2 hours ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

I think that's an accurate summation of a lot of it. 

 

I would say he seems fragile mentally. Seemed upset with Foles' success, then lost that locker room, went to Indy, lost that locker room. Now, he seems scared of getting hit. Which seems like it could be a combo of insecurity and the rash of injuries (and a bad OLine). 

 

Wentz plays scared.  Terry McLaurin didn't just start getting open against Green Bay.  Pre-snap, Wentz would see that 17 drew a good DB and would write him off before the play began.  He's a nice guy I suppose.  But utterly gutless on the field now.