2022 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[clskinsfan]

This TN/Perdue game is the craziest **** I have ever seen. 50+ yard play after 50+ yard play. nuts. 

[Skinsinparadise]

20 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

This TN/Perdue game is the craziest **** I have ever seen. 50+ yard play after 50+ yard play. nuts. 

 

Yeah I've been watching.  Wild one.  Headed to OT. 

[Going Commando]

Kenneth Walker is the truth.  We've got to lose out and then move up from our spot in the second to get him.  He's almost as much of a no-brainer has Jonathan Taylor was.

[Going Commando]

There is no more impactful choice we can make with our second rounder than getting Breece Hall or Kenneth Walker.  We need to stop compromising on our skill talent with flawed players.  Get a bonafide stud who is at the top of his class at his position.  We need a workhorse.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

11 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Kenneth Walker is the truth.  We've got to lose out and then move up from our spot in the second to get him.  He's almost as much of a no-brainer has Jonathan Taylor was.

 

Haven't watched Breece Hall, but Kenneth Walker is legit.  Teams run blitz him frequently.  If he was on an offense with enough firepower to prevent that, he'd be a menace.

 

I don't think he's quite as sure a thing as Jonathan Taylor (don't know how he went in the second round).  I think Kenneth Walker is one of the more unique talents to come out.

 

He's not the total package physically, and I don't think he's going to run fast at the combine.  So there's a chance he lasts to our 2nd rounder.

 

I would be pretty happy drafting him in the 2nd. 

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Haven't watched Breece Hall, but Kenneth Walker is legit.  Teams run blitz him frequently.  If he was on an offense with enough firepower to prevent that, he'd be a menace.

 

I don't think he's quite as sure a thing as Jonathan Taylor (don't know how he went in the second round).  I think Kenneth Walker is one of the more unique talents to come out.

 

He's not the total package physically, and I don't think he's going to run fast at the combine.  So there's a chance he lasts to our 2nd rounder.

 

I would be pretty happy drafting him in the 2nd. 

 

He still wins without numbers quite a bit.  I don't think he's going to run that fast either.  He looks like a 4.5 guy with maybe a shot at upper 4.4s.  He doesn't have the career production Taylor had, but this season was as spectacular as any one season Taylor had.  Eye-popping, star caliber play.  He's a phenomenal stop-start runner with next level balance, vision, and creativity and instinctive elusiveness.  Pretty good strength too.  He's got a special nose for the end zone too.  The number of TDs he scored where you are absolutely sure there is no way he'll get the edge or find the space to break through that second level is surprising.

 

I think he's like Taylor in that, to me, he is clearly one of the top 15-20 players in his class, but he'll probably fall to the second round because of reasons.  And then in a couple of years people will recognize they overthought it with him and then promptly do it again with the next stud RB prospect to come along.

 

Breece Hall is very impressive too.  His big plays don't have the same spectacle as Walker's, but he's more of a runaway train than Walker and you're less likely to see second level defenders catch him or bring him down with iffy contact.  He's got pretty good open field speed for such a big back as he doesn't look fast but he also doesn't get caught.  Great power to shrug off weak backfield contact early in runs without losing any acceleration.  Knows how to slow play his runs until his crease opens and then it's a very explosive cut and he's off to a gallop.  I think his vision and creativity are major strengths, like Walker's.  He has a ridiculous nose for the end zone too, and he is always thinking house call when he's got extra space.

 

To me he's the Arian Foster of the class.  I think he and Walker are the best bets to be the special, pro-bowl caliber backs from this class, and I want us to get one of them.  Enough with the limited try-hards and the project athletes who don't have the instincts to be dominant.  It feels like their is a huge gulf in talent separating us from Dallas and the way we start chipping away at that is by getting no-doubter studs who were clear stars and brand-name players at the college level like Dallas tends to do.

[SeatCushionGame]

Where does Isaiah Spiller fit in the above conversation?

[Skinsinparadise]

Love Kenneth Walker, have talked about him from time to time this year.  I haven't watched Hall much but will do so.

 

I am surprised Kiper doesn't even have Zach Charbonet in his top 10.  He's a big dude.  Finds creases well.  Good vision.  Good contact balance.  Plays violence.   Breaks tackles.  He has enough speed to break loose.  Really run watch. 

 

He runs a bit upright which i don't like.  He's one of the rare RB's in this class that majors in a power scheme as opposed to zone though he runs both.  I know we run primarily zone but I like to have a runner who is a gap type -- duo, counters, etc to complement our natural zone runners. 

 

He has the same PFF score as Walker when they run power. He has one of PFF's highest elusive rating scores and one of the better scores for yards after contact.   If you give this dude the ball on 4th and I, I don't think you stop him. 

 

If he drops to the 3rd-4th he's on my radar.  He is sort of a poor man's N. Harris IMO.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

one other that hits me early among the third round types is Dameon Pierce.  Like Michael Carter was last year, he's not featured a heck of a lot so that makes his numbers look more modest.   And like Carter his numbers look awesome if you project them.  Really good yards after contact.  His PFF numbers are off the charts.  He can catch.

 

He's 215 pound but a powerful 215.

 

 

 

 

 

He was on Feldman's freak list at the beginning of the year. 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[The Consigliere]

3 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

He still wins without numbers quite a bit.  I don't think he's going to run that fast either.  He looks like a 4.5 guy with maybe a shot at upper 4.4s.  He doesn't have the career production Taylor had, but this season was as spectacular as any one season Taylor had.  Eye-popping, star caliber play.  He's a phenomenal stop-start runner with next level balance, vision, and creativity and instinctive elusiveness.  Pretty good strength too.  He's got a special nose for the end zone too.  The number of TDs he scored where you are absolutely sure there is no way he'll get the edge or find the space to break through that second level is surprising.

 

I think he's like Taylor in that, to me, he is clearly one of the top 15-20 players in his class, but he'll probably fall to the second round because of reasons.  And then in a couple of years people will recognize they overthought it with him and then promptly do it again with the next stud RB prospect to come along.

 

Breece Hall is very impressive too.  His big plays don't have the same spectacle as Walker's, but he's more of a runaway train than Walker and you're less likely to see second level defenders catch him or bring him down with iffy contact.  He's got pretty good open field speed for such a big back as he doesn't look fast but he also doesn't get caught.  Great power to shrug off weak backfield contact early in runs without losing any acceleration.  Knows how to slow play his runs until his crease opens and then it's a very explosive cut and he's off to a gallop.  I think his vision and creativity are major strengths, like Walker's.  He has a ridiculous nose for the end zone too, and he is always thinking house call when he's got extra space.

 

To me he's the Arian Foster of the class.  I think he and Walker are the best bets to be the special, pro-bowl caliber backs from this class, and I want us to get one of them.  Enough with the limited try-hards and the project athletes who don't have the instincts to be dominant.  It feels like their is a huge gulf in talent separating us from Dallas and the way we start chipping away at that is by getting no-doubter studs who were clear stars and brand-name players at the college level like Dallas tends to do.

No it wasn’t. Taylor ran for 2000 yards 3 consecutive seasons. Walker topped 1000 once. It’s not remotely comparable in any universe. He’s a good rb in this class bu there’s a reason Hall and Spiller are ahead of him. I’d be targeting Charbonnet as he can be had much cheaper than any of them and comes w/a 5 star recruiting resume.

 

Also worth noting that Hall and Spiller are legit 3 down backs that put up strong receiving #’s and Charbonnet finally added that to his game this year. Walkers made no impact as a pass catcher so he’s too much of a play telegrapher. That being said, plenty of guys like Fournette and Derrick Henry added that element as pro’s so it’s not automatically a no especially for a guy who only broke out this year.

 

I love the prospect, ftr, I just see the take as way over the top. Every Top RB in the ‘20 class and ‘21 class and at least 2 in this one had/have better CV’s other than CEH, snd the Taylor comp is sheer lunacy. Taylor’s profile matched well w/LT2, Barkley’s, and Adrian Peterson, and superseded Gurley’s, Zeke’s and Fournettes. I wouldn’t put Walker in the top 25 of the past 15 years whereas Taylor is a top 2-3 guy of this era. Just going by how they were rated in draft years since ‘20 I had Taylor, Swift, Dobbins, Akers, Etienne, Javonte, Harris, Breece and Spiller above him and maybe Charbonnet and CEH. Gibbons I underrated (and some others too).

 

All this being said, in a bad RB class, he’s one of the few legit options, just saying he wouldn’t have made my top 5 in any of the past six classes except ‘19 (even worse class) and this ‘22 class. 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2021 by The Consigliere

[max21]

Kinda hope we don’t draft Ridder 

[DWinzit]

18 minutes ago, max21 said:

Kinda hope we don’t draft Ridder 

Lots of potential, lots of great qualities, lots of athleticism and lots of inconsistency

 

His defense needs him to step up, get some points and keep them off the field in the second half. 

He has done nothing through the first half of the game to impress anyone. I still see him as a late first early second round guy. 

In all fairness, his OL isn't helping him much

Edited December 31, 2021 by DWinzit

[Skinsinparadise]

26 minutes ago, max21 said:

Kinda hope we don’t draft Ridder 

 

I have a tough time with him.  And this is coming from a guy who liked him last year.  I've never loved him.   The more I digest, the more mixed i feel about him.  He has more red flags for me than the other 5 Qbs that are mentioned as the top ones.  He'd be QB #6 for me I think in this group.  As a 2nd round flier, maybe, what the heck but i don't see him as a first rounder, maybe late first rounder at best.

 

If there is a QB in this group (the top 6) who i think needs that stellar supporting cast to thrive its him.  I know its an odd thing to say about a QB that has mobility.  But when I watch him, more than the other 5 QBs, he is a totally different dude when he has great protection and his receivers are wide open.  His confidence when the sky is bright and sunny and eveything seems in harmony is sky high.  But, when you put pressure on him and the opponent's secondary is draped over his receivers -- he seems to be a totally different guy.  Night and day.

 

Will see how he does in the 2nd half.   He might change my mind if he improves.  But everything i've seen today so far confirms more of my concerns than what I like about him.  I've been watching this game with the all 22 live on ESPN, its a cool way to watch a game. 

 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[max21]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I have a tough time with him.  And this is coming from a guy who liked him last year.  I've never loved him.   The more I digest, the more mixed i feel about him.  He has more red flags for me than the other 5 Qbs that are mentioned as the top ones.  He'd be QB #6 for me I think in this group.  As a 2nd round flier, maybe, what the heck but i don't see him as a first rounder, maybe late first rounder at best.

 

If there is a QB in this group (the top 6) who i think needs that stellar supporting cast to thrive its him.  I know its an odd thing to say about a QB that has mobility.  But when I watch him, more than the other 5 QBs, he is a totally different dude when he has great protection and his receivers are wide open.  His confidence when the sky is bright and sunny and eveything seems in harmony is sky high.  But, when you put pressure on him and the opponent's secondary is draped over his receivers -- he seems to be a totally different guy.  Night and day.

 

Will see how he does in the 2nd half.   He might change my mind if he improves.  But everything i've seen today so far confirms more of my concerns than what I like about him.  I've been watching this game with the all 22 live on ESPN, its a cool way to watch a game. 

 

 

 

I’ve read a lot about his athleticism and he was flushed a lot and couldn’t beat the sack. Doesn’t look that great throwing on the run either, granted it’s against Bama but I’m not seeing anything that promising. Haven’t seen his arm much the first half but is he known for a deep balll? 

[Skinsinparadise]

32 minutes ago, max21 said:

I’ve read a lot about his athleticism and he was flushed a lot and couldn’t beat the sack. Doesn’t look that great throwing on the run either, granted it’s against Bama but I’m not seeing anything that promising. Haven’t seen his arm much the first half but is he known for a deep balll? 

He has a good arm IMO, his deep ball is decent.

 

My issues with him are mainly accuracy and decision making 

[The Consigliere]

On 12/17/2021 at 4:17 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Willis is a hard evaluation for me so far.  But everything being equal, I've become into high ceiling Qbs especially if that ceiling includes potential elite level mobility like him.  He's working with nothing at Liberty both in terms of his O line and playmakers.

 

I disagree with some who put out the idea of lets pass on the 2022 off season at QB, lets bring this band back with Heinicke leading the show again, and lets get aggressive in 2024 and find that QB then. I get the thought.  While I disagree, the logic isn't wild behind it.   I get this crop and this situation might be tougher than it was in 2021.  And I gave them a pass for 2021.  I am not going to give them a pass for 2022, if they ride with them same horses and the team still seems stuck on neutral.  Having said that, I am perfectly fine with riding with a more raw prospect who rides the bench for a year like Willis. 

 

I am not really worried though that Rivera is thinking of punting to 2023 at QB. Every indication I get from his interviews and the beat guys is all hands are on deck for a QB this off season.  I think something will go down this draft or in the trade market.    Heck COVID-19 ironically might keep us in play for these Qbs if we end up picking in the low teens where I doubt we'd have to trade up.  My gut is two QBs go top 10 and those probably will be Corral and Pickett.  And then somewhere between 10-32 you'll have:  Willis, Strong, Ridder, Howell. 

 

I think the Lions take Hutchinson first.  I think the Eagles take a QB.  It's not that I buy that they are out on Hurts.  But its that years ago I read a long article about Roseman's take on QBs and the thesis of it is he doesn't think you can be a winner in this league without one and believes in doubling down if he's not sure he's got that guy.  I think at a minimum its clear that Hurts isn't some slam dunk top 15 QB.   From that article, Roseman didn't come off as a dude who believed in build a killer roster and the QB then doesn't have to be that great.  

 

 

My big problem w/this take is kind of lazy but it’s based on a clear likely scenario that will lead to even more wrongthink from the fan base, the same sort of wrongthink that justified Chase Young over a QB, and tried to justify the idiocy of not trading up for a QB last year. If we draft a QB early in ‘22, odds are we’ll land another bust. This is a draft far more in common w/‘11, ‘13, ‘14 and ‘19 than ‘17-‘18 (and ‘18 still largely missed!), and ‘20-‘21, and it was why I argued we should go hard at QB in 20 and ‘21 or wait till ‘23. Now we’re gonna repeat the mistakes that lead to us passing on guys in the loaded ‘04, ‘17, ‘20 , ‘21 type classes by likely landing a bust or getting veteraness duct tape and then passing on the position in a class much more likely to deliver a potential savior in ‘23 and worst of all if/when we draft another bust in the spring people will fault the drafting process instead of the redskins/wft process which is the real problem.

[The Consigliere]

On 12/17/2021 at 1:28 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Saw him in person at three games while watching w/two PT’s. Both were very alarmed at his knee/leg and shocked at his draft status.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

13 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

My big problem w/this take is kind of lazy but it’s based on a clear likely scenario that will lead to even more wrongthink from the fan base, the same sort of wrongthink that justified Chase Young over a QB, and tried to justify the idiocy of not trading up for a QB last year. If we draft a QB early in ‘22, odds are we’ll land another bust. This is a draft far more in common w/‘11, ‘13, ‘14 and ‘19 than ‘17-‘18 (and ‘18 still largely missed!), and ‘20-‘21, and it was why I argued we should go hard at QB in 20 and ‘21 or wait till ‘23. Now we’re gonna repeat the mistakes that lead to us passing on guys in the loaded ‘04, ‘17, ‘20 , ‘21 type classes by likely landing a bust or getting veteraness duct tape and then passing on the position in a class much more likely to deliver a potential savior in ‘23 and worst of all if/when we draft another bust in the spring people will fault the drafting process instead of the redskins/wft process which is the real problem.

 

OK, so if I follow your point its pass on a QB in 2022, ride with Heinicke, and wait for 2023?

 

Speaking for myself, I wanted to trade up for Justin Fields.  I was one of the bigger fans of Mac Jones last draft, too.

 

As for 2019, i didn't like the crop aside from Kyler Murray.  I didn't like Haskins or Jones.

 

As for 2020, I don't think Rivera could just come in and dump Haskins, Dan Snyder's Qb, right from the jump.  Sounds like based on what some beat guys have heard and Ron himself hinted at it, they might have dumped Haskins right away though if Burrow fell to #2.  That was their guy.

 

I know you are a QB or bust guy.  I am pretty close to the same.  I've posted on the subject a zillion times over the years and offered my takes on a zillion Qbs or so it feels like over the years.

 

I have a hard time though to approach a draft totally theoritically.  Just because some media draft geeks don't like a draft class doesn't turn me off to it.  Some by the way from the media draft geeks dissent from that point.  Some think the number of good prospects in this draft is similar, its missing thought that slam dunk Trevor Lawrence guy or two.  And some disagree with that.  But again its all opinion not gospel.   But for what its worth, not every media draft geek sees it the same way. 

 

I am not bringing this up to give you a hard time.  Just using it to make a point.  I've been right about some prospects and wrong.  So has everyone here.  It's all cool.  For me the effort in giving takes is what's cool.   I recall you arguing to trade for Josh Rosen.  Heck I recall you bringing up Darnold, too.  OK they are from the ballyhooed 2018 class.  I recall some of your arguments for Rosen, you can get a top 10 QB talent on the cheap.   Why didn't I agree?  I watched enough Rosen to think he's a bust.  Same reason why I argued against Darnold, too.  I didn't give a rats behind that he was from the lauded 2018 class from the draft media.  

 

The 2017 class was supposed to be crap, no elite talents supposedly.  Be "smart" and pass on that yawn 2017 class, it's garbage, say no to D. Watson or Mahomes for much greener pastures for the much more exciting 2018 draft (or so it was billed at the time) for the grouping of Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield.   The dudes that make it out of the 2018 class as the best QBs by a mile were ironically the raw, less touted, low floor guys, Allen and L. Jackson.   The 2019 class lived down to its reputation.  But not every class ends up a replica about the draft media's take of it. Mel Kiper was so sure that Jimmy Clausen was bust proof that he said he'd quit his job if he was wrong.    They swing and miss.  We all do. 

 

Guys like Kiper, McShay aren't scouts.  Some scouts who have spoken about this at times goof on some of the media draft talking heads.  They disagree with them all the time.  Media draft guys loved Haskins.  It came out that many scouts not so much.  I am entertained by mock drafts as much as anyone but these dudes get a lot wrong especially at QB.  

 

Like everyone here, sometimes I am right.  Sometimes I am wrong.  But I don't worry about how a whole class is generalized by the draft media -- its about what do i think about the individual players.   If you watch all these QBs like you did for Strong and say yawn to them all.  OK, cool.  I can ride with it and appreciate that take.  That's you giving your own shot at what you think of these QBs.   But I am not hung up on generalizations about classes from the draft media.    As some scouts have said in any draft you can find really good players, even the more thin drafts. 

 

If you got a headliner or two, it makes the the whole class much sexier.  But if we got headliners here, you typically got two of them at best and they go #1 and #2.  So lets say we pass on this class for Stroud and Bryce Young.   Lets go nuts and say maybe a third emerges as slam dunk like J. Williams.  He's also going really early. We are banking on a collapse season and being at one of those top 3 spots?  Based on what do you think they are heading to 4-13?  I don't think Heinicke is the answer but he's not that bad.

 

The question that would be more driven by reality would be who in that next tier would be intriguing in 2023.  Would Spencer Rattler for example be much more exciting than Matt Corral?   I think that's the more realistic scenario to compare.  That's the pond we'd likely be fishing in versus the Bryce Young pond.  The idea that we will be picking in the top few picks in 2023, i think is likely fantasy.  And when you get these QBs who are billed as slam dunk special, teams don't typically trade out of their spot, they take them.  

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/2017-nfl-draft-trubisky-leads-qb-class-lacking-elite-talent-0ap3000000799332

 

2017 NFL Draft: Trubisky leads QB class lacking elite talent

 

 

 

Edited January 1, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

10 hours ago, SeatCushionGame said:

Where does Isaiah Spiller fit in the above conversation?

 

A huge notch below them IMO.

 

Isaiah Spiller is seeing things one move ahead on his good days.  He's seeing things and reacting to them in like a five yard radius surrounding him.  Studs like Hall and Walker are reading the whole field and playing like three moves ahead.  It's why they are so much more productive despite playing on teams with a fraction of the talent.  They aren't getting caught in an open field one on one by some student athlete from Kent State.

[Skinsinparadise]

I think Ridder is better than Mond but no way I'd take him in the mid first.  To me he's a late first at best but belongs more IMO in the 2nd round.

 

It pains me to say it, in part because I was one of the people early on Ridder last year, and talked about him plenty last year.   But IMO his flaws are too pronounced for me to gloss over.  I've really tried to fall for him.  As a non first round flier type, I like him more than the typical flier.  But he's not one I'd bank on early and feel confident he's the guy. 

 

Maybe a big Senior Bowl will change my mind.  But the one thing about him, I think that forum is perfect for him because you don't get the same kind of pressure.  I think that dude more than the typical QB is a totally different guy when everything is right.   Little pressure.  Open receivers, etc. 

 

 

 

Edited January 1, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Some early work as for compiling stats on some of the RBs.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[KDawg]

Brian Robinson is actually a really good example of someone that would help us. I liked him last year if he came out, too. He can catch... a little. He's not a total stud or anything. But he is a downhill attacking runner. I'd like to see him run with a lower pad level at times, though. But if we don't get Hall/Walker/Spiller I'd LOVE having Robinson. He reminds me of Rhamondre Stevenson a little. 

[mhd24]

You can't have a JAG like Jarrett Patterson getting regular carries.  Just doesn't have NFL-caliber skills to be on the roster.  I said before the season that they should have kept Barber.