Heinicke Hive: The LEGEND of Taylor Heinicke Thread

[Califan007 The Constipated]

18 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

He's an easy guy to get behind but I find it interesting that people are overlooking that Kirk like INT that was dropped on the final drive.  That ball is caught and this conversation is a bit different.  

 

 

 

That's the issue with me, though...even if it were caught and turned into a pick-6, that one play should not overshadow the entirety of Heinicke's play and production in the game and overall. That's why I personally am not focusing on it. If this was something he did with frustrating regularity--which it was kinda looking like it might become just that earlier in the season--then that's one thing. I guess saying "We could have lost the game because of (fill in the blank)" isn't my focus with Heinicke...it's more so is he improving, learning, getting a better command of and feel for the offense, are the players responding positively to him as their leader, etc etc yadda yadda. If he is and we're getting wins because of it, then I'll like what I'm seeing and will want to see if that improvement continues...even if he almost throws an INT along the way that could have cost us a game. I mean, the guy was out of football, sleeping on his sister's couch, and had only started 2 games his entire career before this season. And he wasn't even supposed to be starter this year, either lol...regardless of his age, there were gonna be growing pains all season long. I'm ok with that.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Califan007

[Darrell Green Fan]

12 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Yeah, but every QB has interceptions that were dropped.  And every QB has bull**** interceptions where the ball was tipped, even by his own teammate.  These things wash out, IMO.  

 

Lol, bro, you just don't like Heinicke.   

 

Kirk would have been destroyed if he threw a pick on the final drive. Hell he would have been lit up had it been dropped.  We can't just pretend a terrible decision in the final minute of a 1 pt game didn't happen.  

[KDawg]

I liked Alex Smith, too. I never thought Smith was a high end QB. But he won. I don't care how you spin it. He won. He had the best record with this franchise that you could hope for in spots where we had no business winning.

 

Heinicke is doing the same thing except he has absolutely 100% elite intangibles. Charisma that has an entire locker room backing him (it matters, don't pretend like it doesn't and don't poopoo it like it's about feelings, it's not and that kind of statement is obnoxiously obtuse), good play fakes, ice in his veins, escapability.

 

He is not elite in arm strength and his accuracy is inconsistent.

 

But when he is on he's on and he's on in the biggest moments. He makes mistakes. Possibly big ones, as all QBs do. He also makes plays that others QBs can't that allow us a chance to be in some of these games that people conveniently leave out when they point out the dropped interception. That's the nature of humans. We focus on the negative play rather than the positives.

 

He CAN be upgraded. But not with just anything and not at the cost of valuable team building resources.

 

Right now he's winning. That goes back to last season, too, by the way. We didn't beat Tampa in the playoffs but he damn sure did his best to give us hope.

 

We are all caught up in not having a "wow/traitsy" guy and missing the forest through the trees.

2 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Kirk would have been destroyed if he threw a pick on the final drive. Hell he would have been lit up had it been dropped.  We can't just pretend a terrible decision in the final minute of a 1 pt game didn't happen.  

 

Kirk is a different animal who didn't have the same respect of the locker room or fanbase. Kirk lacks the charisma, but has the physical tools.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Just now, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Kirk would have been destroyed if he threw a pick on the final drive. Hell he would have been lit up had it been dropped.  We can't just pretend a terrible decision in the final minute of a 1 pt game didn't happen.  

 

 

What, you think Heinicke wouldn't have been crucified if he threw that pick?  What point are you exactly trying to make here?

 

 

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I liked Alex Smith, too. I never thought Smith was a high end QB. But he won. I don't care how you spin it. He won. He had the best record with this franchise that you could hope for in spots where we had no business winning.

 

Heinicke is doing the same thing except he has absolutely 100% elite intangibles. Charisma that has an entire locker room backing him (it matters, don't pretend like it doesn't and don't poopoo it like it's about feelings, it's not and that kind of statement is obnoxiously obtuse), good play fakes, ice in his veins, escapability.

 

He is not elite in arm strength and his accuracy is inconsistent.

 

But when he is on he's on and he's on in the biggest moments. He makes mistakes. Possibly big ones, as all QBs do. He also makes plays that others QBs can't that allow us a chance to be in some of these games that people conveniently leave out when they point out the dropped interception. That's the nature of humans. We focus on the negative play rather than the positives.

 

He CAN be upgraded. But not with just anything and not at the cost of valuable team building resources.

 

Right now he's winning. That goes back to last season, too, by the way. We didn't beat Tampa in the playoffs but he damn sure did his best to give us hope.

 

We are all caught up in not having a "wow/traitsy" guy and missing the forest through the trees.

 

Kirk is a different animal who didn't have the same respect of the locker room or fanbase. Kirk lacks the charisma, but has the physical tools.

I really like the Alex/Heini comparisons. I think Alex played not to lose and Heini plays to win, being the biggest difference between them. That and Alex being a much better QB, but I think a lot of that is playing time. I definitely think Heini has a much higher ceiling that he will reach.

 

A lot of his issues can be fixed with experience. Calming down in the pocket, so his mechanics are better, helping him to not throw high and have touch and accuracy on hius longer passes. Trust with his teammates and his own eyes, should speed up his dcision making and make those late throws happen much less. And both of those things, along with not having to make thee play every down, will help him to stop holding the ball so long. He seemed panicked yesterday, which seemed evident by him not sliding on runs.

 

I think he has a much higher ceiling. 

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

 

What, you think Heinicke wouldn't have been crucified if he threw that pick?  What point are you exactly trying to make here?

 

 

 

It's the stigma that Heinicke is a journeyman, not drafted by us, never a high end quarterback that people are fighting. They are using anything they can to down him even having a chance as the guy. Most likely not because they don't like him or don't want to like him, but because their feelings have been put in a blender many times by this fanbase.

 

So they use things that didn't happen to prop their beliefs. It's a tactic we all use at times for things that aren't quite reality but can look a certain way.

 

For instance, they are focusing on the dropped INT but not taking into consideration that the actual INT was due to Crosby's pressure and hit on Heinicke's arm. It evens out. 

 

I get the sentiment. Heinicke is NOT a traitsy dude and won't ever be Aaron Rodgers. I'd like our own Aaron Rodgers. So from that standpoint I absolutely get it.

 

I don't even think everyone that thinks we need a franchise level QB (not Heinicke to win) is even against Heinicke. I think they just want that high end beast of a player that can pick apart anyone and we never have to worry about, "can he make that throw?". I get THAT perspective. I think that's where @Koolblue13 is coming from mostly and I get THAT.

 

I don't get the fixating on one play narrative. Or that the locker room being behind him doesn't matter stuff. That's just odd to me. 

[RedskinsLegacy]

16 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Kirk would have been destroyed if he threw a pick on the final drive. Hell he would have been lit up had it been dropped.  We can't just pretend a terrible decision in the final minute of a 1 pt game didn't happen.  

We can also pretend he didn't lead us down the field to kick the game winning field goal, and that he hasn't put us on a 4 win roll and a chance to win the NFC East again.

 

Edited December 6, 2021 by RedskinsLegacy

[Spaceman Spiff]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

It's the stigma that Heinicke is a journeyman, not drafted by us, never a high end quarterback that people are fighting. They are using anything they can to down him even having a chance as the guy. Most likely not because they don't like him or don't want to like him, but because their feelings have been put in a blender many times by this fanbase.

 

So they use things that didn't happen to prop their beliefs. It's a tactic we all use at times for things that aren't quite reality but can look a certain way.

 

For instance, they are focusing on the dropped INT but not taking into consideration that the actual INT was due to Crosby's pressure and hit on Heinicke's arm. It evens out. 

 

I get the sentiment. Heinicke is NOT a traitsy dude and won't ever be Aaron Rodgers. I'd like our own Aaron Rodgers. So from that standpoint I absolutely get it.

 

I don't even think everyone that thinks we need a franchise level QB (not Heinicke to win) is even against Heinicke. I think they just want that high end beast of a player that can pick apart anyone and we never have to worry about, "can he make that throw?". I get THAT perspective. I think that's where @Koolblue13 is coming from mostly and I get THAT.

 

I don't get the fixating on one play narrative. Or that the locker room being behind him doesn't matter stuff. That's just odd to me. 

 

True.  It's like everyone who was on twitter last night immediately after the game "DUSTIN HOPKINS WOULDN'T HAVE MADE THAT KICK!!!!!"

 

Ok...so?  

[Califan007 The Constipated]

22 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I liked Alex Smith, too. I never thought Smith was a high end QB. But he won. I don't care how you spin it. He won. He had the best record with this franchise that you could hope for in spots where we had no business winning.

 

Pretty much said the same thing this past offseason...regardless of bum leg or "check down" label or anything else, Alex won...went 11-5 as starter where all the other QBs on the roster only went 6-26 combined playing with the exact same team and coaches. He won. And did so with the intangibles he brought to the field if not always the physical traits. This was not a team that was so well constructed that any mediocre QB could have steered the team to an 11-5 record. Back in the spring I said something to the effect of "I want whoever ends up behind center to win, just as Smith did. Don't care about how pretty or ugly it looks...whoever it ends up being, do what--for whatever reason--only Alex Smith has been able to do over the past 3 seasons...win."

 

If we end up sweeping the division Heinicke will have a record this year of 11-5, same as Smith. If it looks like he has a weak arm or does too many checkdowns or almost threw an INT in that one game, well...**** it lol...we're winning with him. Doesn't mean we shouldn't try to upgrade, but maybe let's not act as if Heinicke is proof that this team is set to win no matter who's behind center. He's actually an important part of the reason the team wins.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Califan007

[TradeTheBeal!]

22 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

 

What, you think Heinicke wouldn't have been crucified if he threw that pick?  What point are you exactly trying to make here?

 

 

Every QB throws picks.  Not every QB comes back on the very next drive and engineers a game-winning drive.

[zCommander]

7 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Our defense has been playing very well since the bye. They've held multiple good teams to well below their average points scored prior to that game. Contrary to that, many times our offense has put up decidedly less points against defenses than they were giving up on average.

 

Please stop making it sound like we didn't do anything and Heinicke singlehandedly drove us to victory with his arm. He's a game manager and he managed the game relatively well. Accurate in the short and intermediate, not many big shots, but not many big mistakes. We had a good running game, our defense held them to way under their average up to that point, and even though our offense sputtered we managed to eek out enough points to narrowly edge them.

 

A win is a win. A packet delivered is a packet delivered doesn't matter how slowly it gets there.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

3 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Every QB throws picks.  Not every QB comes back on the very next drive and engineers a game-winning drive.

 

Certainly not a quarterback who hasn't played here for years, yet people keep bringing up like he's still on the roster.

[TradeTheBeal!]

7 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Certainly not a quarterback who hasn't played here for years, yet people keep bringing up like he's still on the roster.

And that quarterback had league-leading 31 fumbles in his 3 years as starter, was a poster child for big game futility and 70% of the fanbase wanted to make him the highest paid player in league history.

 

So…”crucified” seems kinda silly.

[seamonster]

31 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I really like the Alex/Heini comparisons. I think Alex played not to lose and Heini plays to win, being the biggest difference between them. That and Alex being a much better QB, but I think a lot of that is playing time. I definitely think Heini has a much higher ceiling that he will reach.

 

A lot of his issues can be fixed with experience. Calming down in the pocket, so his mechanics are better, helping him to not throw high and have touch and accuracy on hius longer passes. Trust with his teammates and his own eyes, should speed up his dcision making and make those late throws happen much less. And both of those things, along with not having to make thee play every down, will help him to stop holding the ball so long. He seemed panicked yesterday, which seemed evident by him not sliding on runs.

 

I think he has a much higher ceiling. 

 

I like Smith's magical comeback story but he was woeful with the Skins.  He was on target to throw 16 touchdowns. Heinike > Smith. 

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Fair enough.

 

Does the possibility exist that he can get better than he is right now?

 

I think it exists, but it's probably capped at a certain spot most likely. He's a great dude and has tons of intangibles but he just doesn't have the natural talent to ever truly be an upper echelon guy IMO.

 

At this point my gut is telling me that his ceiling is likely as a mid-tier top 15 guy. Which obviously isn't bad and you can win with it, but I think it still means we keep looking for an upgrade. It's like Alex Smith with the Chiefs. They were winning with him and they were a playoff team, but they knew he had a ceiling and when they found a guy they liked they went big for him as they thought his ceiling was higher.

Edited December 6, 2021 by mistertim

[Catatonic]

Nothing wrong with wishing, hoping, whatever for the next Brady, Rogers, Favre, to land here.  But that's like catching lightning in a bottle.  Right now, we have a guy that just wins games, and that's all you can legit ask for.  I hope we roll with him and see where it takes us.  God knows, with where this team has been for the last 22 years, it's not like we've got anything to lose.     

[petey hodge]

41 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

He's a great dude and has tons of intangibles but he just doesn't have the natural talent to ever truly be an upper echelon guy IMO.

 

 

every time you give TH any props, it's followed by the word but.  LOL 

 

passive aggressive!

 

 

[mistertim]

15 minutes ago, Catatonic said:

Nothing wrong with wishing, hoping, whatever for the next Brady, Rogers, Favre, to land here.  But that's like catching lightning in a bottle.  Right now, we have a guy that just wins games, and that's all you can legit ask for.  I hope we roll with him and see where it takes us.  God knows, with where this team has been for the last 22 years, it's not like we've got anything to lose.     

 

I'm fine with keeping him. I agree with keeping him. But you don't stop looking for a potentially elite QB upgrade because you have a decent one currently. So keep Heinicke, but also keep looking for an upgrade. That's basically been my stance for a while now.

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

 

It's the stigma that Heinicke is a journeyman, not drafted by us, never a high end quarterback that people are fighting. They are using anything they can to down him even having a chance as the guy. Most likely not because they don't like him or don't want to like him, but because their feelings have been put in a blender many times by this fanbase.

 

So they use things that didn't happen to prop their beliefs. It's a tactic we all use at times for things that aren't quite reality but can look a certain way.

 

For instance, they are focusing on the dropped INT but not taking into consideration that the actual INT was due to Crosby's pressure and hit on Heinicke's arm. It evens out. 

 

I get the sentiment. Heinicke is NOT a traitsy dude and won't ever be Aaron Rodgers. I'd like our own Aaron Rodgers. So from that standpoint I absolutely get it.

 

I don't even think everyone that thinks we need a franchise level QB (not Heinicke to win) is even against Heinicke. I think they just want that high end beast of a player that can pick apart anyone and we never have to worry about, "can he make that throw?". I get THAT perspective. I think that's where @Koolblue13 is coming from mostly and I get THAT.

 

I don't get the fixating on one play narrative. Or that the locker room being behind him doesn't matter stuff. That's just odd to me. 

 

That's not the way I see it, at least not right now. First, I will agree saying he had a bad game is not accurate. But to say he had a great game outside a play or two is not accurate either. 

 

He clearly took a step back on some of things he had fixed the last 3 weeks. He started sailing throws again, not stepping into throws when he could and holding the ball too long. The thing is, and this is what I like about him, he worked through it all and when it mattered most he delivered the game winning drive. 

 

I still want them to look at the draft for a QB, but not because I am aching to get rid of Taylor. He truly gives them options. He clearly deserves the rest of the season and outside a major blockbuster like R Wilson or Aaron Rogers coming here (not advocating this at all, or do I think either happens, jsut making a point), he should go into next season as the starter. But you need to be thinking longer term. Nothing wring with drafting a guy to sit behind Taylor for a few season. I do not want them to trade or sign some mid-levl guy like Carr. Not worth what it would take and not enough improvement if there is any at all. 

 

But he does still have to keep getting better. He got a bit sloppy with some of his improvements and backslid some. It's Ok. That is going to happen, especially with a newer QB (I use newer as he is not young but is in terms of playing time). He will take this, look at film, recognize he got a bit sloppy and work to get those things back out of his game. I have confidence. 

 

As a team, they have to start looking downfield more, even if it's not successful. LV crowded the box to stop the run and took away the short passing routes. Oline didn't to help as they also tool a step back but good grief the injuries! It's amazing we even have 5 guys that can play. But if they do not stretch the field those shorter routes and running lines are going to dry up. 

 

I think he has a chance to have a great game against dallas. But 17 pts will not get it. Dallas will score. Need to keep them to 24 or less. But that will not be easy. Need to D to add some TOs. Mack to yesterdays game - that was missing also. The D didn't to turn LV over 1 time. Curl should have had a pick. Game changes on that play as he had nothing but daylight in front of him. So as good as the D played, they could still help more. 

 

I am just really glad we have meaningful games in Dec. Win 4 of the next 5 and the team in in the POs - for sure. Should at least fun to watch. 

[mistertim]

5 minutes ago, petey hodge said:

 

every time you give TH any props, it's followed by the word but.  LOL 

 

passive aggressive!

 

 

LOL. OMGLULZ. ROFLCOPTER!

 

Dude, stop. Just stop. I've been consistent about saying I like Heinicke personally and think he's a decent but limited QB. Nothing has changed there. You just don't like the fact that I don't think he has the ability to be an upper echelon QB. Sorry about that. 

 

 

Unrelated: You might want to think about removing that picture because of the profanity bypass.

Edited December 6, 2021 by mistertim

[Catatonic]

Just now, mistertim said:

 

I'm fine with keeping him. I agree with keeping him. But you don't stop looking for a potentially elite QB upgrade because you have a decent one currently. So keep Heinicke, but also keep looking for an upgrade. That's basically been my stance for a while now.

I agree, but I’d rather go into next season with TH as the cemented starter.  Give him a full year and if it doesn’t work out, then do what you’ve got to do.  It’s not like Football Team has a great track record of finding the next elite QB. 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, goskins10 said:

 

That's not the way I see it, at least not right now. First, I will agree saying he had a bad game is not accurate. But to say he had a great game outside a play or two is not accurate either. 

 

 

Not even reading the rest of the post if its based on this. Who said he had a great game? I haven't seen a single soul come in here and say Heinicke was like Booby Miles out there and just took over. So this is a false premise. 

 

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

The lines being drawn in the sand over Heineke right now is rather wild, but I guess it wouldn't be Washington any other way.

 

There are 5 games left, all in the division, all important to making the playoffs.  The narrative can swing wildly between now and then.  He's also under contract for next year at a little over a million dollars.  I can't reiterate enough that we have plenty of time to decide on what he is and what he can or can't be.  The sample size is still small, no matter how much you want to make a sweeping generalization that he either is or isn't the guy moving forward at this very moment.

 

Before we get too carried away about the locker room - was the locker room championing Heineke when we lost 4 straight and he looked like a guy who was on the couch last year?  The concencus in the locker room absolutely matters and I think it's great that guys are getting behind him.  But those feelings can be fleeting when things go the other way, which is why I think it's a bit of a stretch to get carried away about all that.  When a team starts 2-6 and knocks off 4 straight, I fully expect every locker room to be in full support of the QB.

 

Point being, if Heineke QB's the team to say - 4 of the next 5 in the division, damn straight the locker room is going to be all about him moving forward.  But let's say we lose 3 or 4 of the next 5 and the QB'ing looks like October, that narrative is certainly going to change.

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

 

Before we get too carried away about the locker room - was the locker room championing Heineke when we lost 4 straight and he looked like a guy who was on the couch last year? 

 

Actually, by what I've heard/seen - yes.

[goskins10]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Not even reading the rest of the post if its based on this. Who said he had a great game? I haven't seen a single soul come in here and say Heinicke was like Booby Miles out there and just took over. So this is a false premise. 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry I used a bad word. So maybe I should have said a good game? Arguing semantics is not typically your style. My point was he made some good plays and some not good plays. It's too bad you shut it down over one part of one statement. You might have found I was much more aligned with you than not.