Heinicke Hive: The LEGEND of Taylor Heinicke Thread

[jnhutchi3]

2 minutes ago, lovemaskins said:

Who the hell is Tom Boswell...

 

Hopefully, that is sarcasm.  You are not a real Washington fan if you don't know who Tom Boswell is.

 

Here is a great column that Boswell wrote about McKoy several years ago and the unfair stigma attached to some backup QBs.  The article also discusses how McKoy outperformed Cousins and RG III in 2014. --

 

"In that 4-12 season, as Robert Griffin III, Kirk Cousins and McCoy split time at quarterback, McCoy and Gruden began to appreciate each other. The then-famous RGIII, and Cousins, both in their third years in D.C., got to play more than McCoy. Nonetheless, the three accidentally conducted a mini laboratory test for measuring each other. Griffin threw 214 passes, Cousins 204 and McCoy 128.

 

Their quarterback ratings were McCoy 96.4, Griffin 86.9 and Cousins 86.4."

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/sometimes-backup-quarterbacks-are-backups-for-a-reason-but-sometimes-/2018/11/21/63da890c-edb3-11e8-baac-2a674e91502b_story.html

 

 

[mistertim]

13 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

We aren't winning the division with Fitzpatrick.  

 

Honestly I think winning the division is going to be a long shot unless our defense suddenly starts living up to their hype. Dallas has a legitimately potent offense and the Eagles looked really good last week. It was against a pretty bad team but Hurts still looked legit.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[UK Skins]

Hell of a game from him but he needs to start stronger. Every pass in the first half seemed to be too high or behind the receiver (even the Mclaurin TD from memory). Superb second half though, some incredible throws and what a fantastic attitude. 

[mistertim]

As far as the accuracy, I liked that Heinicke's best throws seemed to be in the most important situations. However I would definitely like to see him clean up the high and behind throws. Those things make me nervous, especially when in the middle of the field.

[redskinss]

Most of us have reservations about heinicke because the league history on guys like him isn't good.

Those reservations are all justified but something most aren't considering is that he could actually get better.

He's only had 3 starts in his career and I think people are assuming he's performing at his ceiling right now.

There's still a possibility he could get better and play a little more consistently by cutting down on some of the off target throws and get into his rhythm a little earlier in the games.

He does still seem a little uncomfortable out there at times and if that goes away the skies the limit for this kid. 

 

[DJHJR86]

11 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Honestly I think winning the division is going to be a long shot unless our defense suddenly starts living up to their hype. Dallas has a legitimately potent offense and the Eagles looked really good last week. It was against a pretty bad team but Hurts still looked legit.

 

I agree 100%.  

[zCommander]

12 minutes ago, UK Skins said:

Hell of a game from him but he needs to start stronger. Every pass in the first half seemed to be too high or behind the receiver (even the Mclaurin TD from memory). Superb second half though, some incredible throws and what a fantastic attitude. 

 

9 minutes ago, mistertim said:

As far as the accuracy, I liked that Heinicke's best throws seemed to be in the most important situations. However I would definitely like to see him clean up the high and behind throws. Those things make me nervous, especially when in the middle of the field.

 

Wouldn't that clear up as he plays more with the 1st team during practice? I didn't expect him to come out gun blazing and hitting all of his throws. Cousins was really bad at over throwing too. I think he still is. 

 

Point here is more Taylor practices and develop chemistry with the first team players the better he will get. I can't wait. 

 

 

Edited September 17, 2021 by zskins

[mistertim]

4 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

 

Wouldn't that clear up as he plays more with the 1st team during practice? I didn't expect him to come out gun blazing and hitting all of his throws. Cousins was really bad at over throwing too. I think he still is. 

 

Point here is more Taylor practices and makes chemistry with the first team players the better he will get. I can't wait. 

 

I think a pattern of high and behind throws is usually more of a mechanics and anticipation thing as opposed to familiarity with the scheme and/or receivers. It can be cleaned up but just takes practice.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

7 minutes ago, redskinss said:

Most of us have reservations about heinicke because the league history on guys like him isn't good.

There is truth in that, but you also have to add who we are into that mix.  We are the butt of every quarterback joke for decades.  Even when these fairy tale stories come true, they don't happen here.   So we are bound to have even more reservations than most fanbases.  Add to the fact that we've also seen several high and behind passes that look like gift wrapped interceptions.  They haven't happened yet and hopefully it's just him being amped and he'll settle down a bit with a W under his belt.  I noticed those high balls weren't as prevalent in the 2nd half.

[Malapropismic Depository]

5 hours ago, LetThePointsSoar said:

 

Haha, where is this gif from?  PLEASE tell me it's actually from last night. 

 

 

And oh yeah, **** that guy. 

 

 

I found it on a Giants' forum last night.

I'm gonna guess it was from last night's game, because I just don't see Giants fans replaying that over and over at future games, after it happened.

I don't think they could handle the pain of that.

[Malapropismic Depository]

9 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

Next Gen stat of the night: The completion probability of Taylor Heinicke's late TD pass to Ricky Seals-Jones, thrown to the back of the end zone over coverage from Adoree' Jackson, was just 13.7%. The air distance on the toss was 40.2 yards, and it was the second-most improbable completion by Washington of the NGS era.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It was just a day or 2 ago, that people were saying they've never seen Heinicke put a ball more than 40 yards in the air, lol

[zCommander]

4 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

 

I found it on a Giants' forum last night.

I'm gonna guess it was from last night's game, because I just don't see Giants fans replaying that over and over at future games, after it happened.

I don't think they could handle the pain of that.

 

It is not from last night. It is from 2018.

 

 

[ODU AGGIE]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

It doesn't have much to do with being "cautious", really. It's knowing for a fact that a QB can have good games, or even a string of good games and still not necessarily be a great long term QB. It's happened a ton of times in the past (hell, it's happened to US plenty of times in the past).

 

I don't have some sort of set limit. Fitz is out for probably 4-6 weeks at least so we'll see where things stand at the end of that. Even if Heinicke ends up playing for the rest of the season I'd still probably take in his whole season and then see how I felt about it at the end. Of course, if he goes on a tear and starts demolishing teams and putting up 4 TD games and winning huge shootouts I'd come to a faster conclusion, but I really don't see that happening.

 

And I would have done the same thing for Fitz or any other QB outside of if we'd traded for Rodgers or Watson or Wilson.

So, if he plays the whole season and we win the division to go into the playoffs, would that be enough, or would he have to win a playoff game or more?

[Malapropismic Depository]

4 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

It is not from last night. It is from 2018.

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe so, but according to Next Gen Stats : the probability that Mara broke yet another chair last night after Heinicke's comeback, is 87.9%

[ODU AGGIE]

My son-in-law is from Suffolk, VA and went to William and Mary. I am from Texas and went to Texas A&M, but settled in Virginia after 24 years in the Air Force. He is a long-time Washington fan, and this morning he offered to buy me a Washington jersey, and I immediately took him up on it -- HEINICKE #4. I will have it on in two weeks at the next ODU home game against, appropriately, Buffalo! Cheers, all!

[Malapropismic Depository]

So, who is more of a genius ; Heinicke...

or Scott Turner, for being the only coach in the entire NFL who came to see Taylor Heinicke workout on his Pro Day ?

And on top of that, kept in touch with him for the next 6 years.

Scott Turner may be qualified to become the next HC of this team, with that kind of genius mind

[mistertim]

11 minutes ago, ODU AGGIE said:

So, if he plays the whole season and we win the division to go into the playoffs, would that be enough, or would he have to win a playoff game or more?

 

I'm talking about his play. I don't purely attach QB play to wins and losses...that's a pretty flawed formula. A team can go to the playoffs with a pretty meh QB and a team can possibly miss the playoffs with a really good one. For example:

 

1) The team gets to the playoffs. TH is doing ok but nothing special...averaging a 2:1 TD:INT ratio with 1-2 TDs per game. Decent completion percentage, not many big plays.

2) The team misses the playoffs. TH is throwing 3+ TDs per game with a 3:1 TD:INT ratio, high completion, plenty of big plays.

 

Which one should I pay attention to more as far as TH himself and his play?

 

I just want to see how he plays for the rest of the season. You're trying to set some sort of hard milestone and I'm saying I don't have an "if a then b" equation, no matter how much you'd like to hear one. I need to see how he handles a variety of different teams and defenses and situations.

 

 

[jnhutchi3]

1 hour ago, redskinss said:

Most of us have reservations about heinicke because the league history on guys like him isn't good.

Those reservations are all justified but something most aren't considering is that he could actually get better.

He's only had 3 starts in his career and I think people are assuming he's performing at his ceiling right now.

There's still a possibility he could get better and play a little more consistently by cutting down on some of the off target throws and get into his rhythm a little earlier in the games.

He does still seem a little uncomfortable out there at times and if that goes away the skies the limit for this kid. 

 

 

It's a mixed bag.  Some guys are backups for years and then became excellent starting QBs for a few years.  Trent Green comes to mind.  Rich Gannon as well, who led the Raiders to the Super Bowl in 2002 and became league MVP.  And Brad Johnson with the Redskins had an excellent year when they won the division in 1999, after being mostly a career backup in Minnesota.

Edited September 17, 2021 by jnhutchi3

[goskins10]

47 minutes ago, jnhutchi3 said:

 

Hopefully, that is sarcasm.  You are not a real Washington fan if you don't know who Tom Boswell is.

 

Here is a great column that Boswell wrote about McKoy several years ago and the unfair stigma attached to some backup QBs.  The article also discusses how McKoy outperformed Cousins and RG III in 2014. --

 

 

 

I agree about Boswell to a certain point Just understand that anyone under say 40 may not be that aware. Not a slam on them but his heyday was in the 1970s, 80s and 90s in Washington. ALso, he was really much more into baseball. So football fans that are not interested in baseball may not know him. 

 

I am in no way being the spelling police here. I suck at typos. Even got my first warning due to one. But is there a reason you spell McCoy with a K? Just wondering if I am missing something. 

 

[ODU AGGIE]

11 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I'm talking about his play. I don't purely attach QB play to wins and losses...that's a pretty flawed formula. A team can go to the playoffs with a pretty meh QB and a team can possibly miss the playoffs with a really good one. For example:

 

1) The team gets to the playoffs. TH is doing ok but nothing special...averaging a 2:1 TD:INT ratio with 1-2 TDs per game. Decent completion percentage, not many big plays.

2) The team misses the playoffs. TH is throwing 3+ TDs per game with a 3:1 TD:INT ratio, high completion, plenty of big plays.

 

Which one should I pay attention to more as far as TH himself and his play?

 

I just want to see how he plays for the rest of the season. You're trying to set some sort of hard milestone and I'm saying I don't have an "if a then b" equation, no matter how much you'd like to hear one. I need to see how he handles a variety of different teams and defenses and situations.

 

 

Okay, I fully understand. The difference for me is that having watched him for four years at ODU plus what he continues to do now means I do not have to see more to exude the confidence in him that I do. Now, before anyone says something about that was not the NFL -- I fully know and acknowledge that. But what you have all seen of him against the Panthers, Bucs, Chargers and now the Giants is exactly who he has always been. It makes no difference the level of play around him, Washington v. the Giants, or ODU v. JMU -- that is just who he is and, in my opinion, who he will continue to be.

[jnhutchi3]

1 minute ago, goskins10 said:

 

 

I agree about Boswell to a certain point Just understand that anyone under say 40 may not be that aware. Not a slam on them but his heyday was in the 1970s, 80s and 90s in Washington. ALso, he was really much more into baseball. So football fans that are not interested in baseball may not know him. 

 

I am in no way being the spelling police here. I suck at typos. Even got my first warning due to one. But is there a reason you spell McCoy with a K? Just wondering if I am missing something. 

 

 

Just forgot how to spell his name.  

 

Don't know if I agree about Boswell's "heyday".  Washington has sucked for 30 years, so that might be one reason the 1970s - 1990s were Boswell's "heyday".

[Llevron]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

As far as the accuracy, I liked that Heinicke's best throws seemed to be in the most important situations. However I would definitely like to see him clean up the high and behind throws. Those things make me nervous, especially when in the middle of the field.

 

Hes funny. You can see why teams gave up on him and flashes of why they never should have on back to back plays lol. Its excruciating to watch and some of the best football I get to see all at the same time. 

[jnhutchi3]

2 minutes ago, ODU AGGIE said:

Okay, I fully understand. The difference for me is that having watched him for four years at ODU plus what he continues to do now means I do not have to see more to exude the confidence in him that I do. Now, before anyone says something about that was not the NFL -- I fully know and acknowledge that. But what you have all seen of him against the Panthers, Bucs, Chargers and now the Giants is exactly who he has always been. It makes no difference the level of play around him, Washington v. the Giants, or ODU v. JMU -- that is just who he is and, in my opinion, who he will continue to be.

 

Agreed.  There is nothing left to see regarding Heinicke.  The dude has already proven that he can play at this level.  The only question at this point is whether or not he can stay healthy with his fairly slight build.  

 

If this were the 1980s - 1990s, I would say no.  Even great QBs like Montana and Young would routinely get pulverized in the pocket back then.  There was no preferential treatment back then.  Now, if you simply fall on top of a QB it's a 15 yard penalty.  It happened to Chase Young last night.

5 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

Hes funny. You can see why teams gave up on him and flashes of why they never should have on back to back plays lol. Its excruciating to watch and some of the best football I get to see all at the same time. 

 

Sorry, I CANNOT see why anyone would have given up on Heinicke.

 

These accuracy discussions are overblown.  Heinicke was 18 - 22 at one point in the game last night.  I'll take that any day. 

 

No QB is going to be perfect on every throw.  They are human, after all.

[Llevron]

4 minutes ago, jnhutchi3 said:

Sorry, I CANNOT see why anyone would have given up on Heinicke.

 

These accuracy discussions are overblown.  Heinicke was 18 - 22 at one point in the game last night.  I'll take that any day. 

 

No QB is going to be perfect on every throw.  They are human, after all.

 

Well you said it yourself hes not perfect. No one is. That means he has flaws. Its more than just his injury history. He doesn't have an elite arm. That's objectively true. He gets hurt often. Objectively true. Some passes sail for whatever reason. True. All these things are at least arguable, if not true. So I understand why when seeing those things and needing to win RIGHT NOW some teams would be like no thanks and go to someone with more "talent" or a higher draft choice or whatever the issue is. 

 

Hell 5 years ago he could have been called a running QB and being labeled as such then was NOT so much of a positive as it is now. Im not saying anything is specifically wrong with him, so you don't have to defend him. I'm saying, I can see why someone would want to move on. If we had Hein and the first over all the same year Luck or Murry or Burrow or whatever the most recent guy of that ilk is coming out, you draft Luck or whoever and say by to Hein. Situations dictate response as much as talent does in the NFL. That's my point. 

 

Like I said I like the guy, so you dont have to go out of your way to defend him to me. I cant wait to see him play again. Honestly outside of injuries hes exactly what I have grown to want in a QB. Hes too smart to sit and I love that.