Heinicke Hive: The LEGEND of Taylor Heinicke Thread

[mistertim]

29 minutes ago, redskinss said:

I can't say for sure what he meant by that but my guess is that he meant more elusive and quicker twitch, which I agree with.

Fitzpatrick will run and take what the defense gives him and he's pretty good at it but he's kind of lumbering while doing it, even Moreso now that he's in his upper 30's.

Heineke has shown a few times he can juke a guy out of his sneakers and he's 10 years younger so the potential to maintain that athleticism for longer is higher.

We've gone round and round on heinicke since the playoff game and I agree the sample size is so small it's really hard to get a good read on his future but I think all things being equal if Fitzpatrick and heinicke both look good Rivera is going to seriously consider heinicke's age and potential to be our future when deciding who to start.

I do tend to agree that Fitzpatrick will probably start the season but he better play pretty well consistently because he may be on a short leash.

 

Ah, ok. Yeah I can agree on the mobility part, though for his age Fitz can actually be surprisingly mobile...not really in running but in creating plays off-script. Heinicke is certainly a better scrambler.

 

I do somewhat disagree about the bolded part. Rivera first was clear that QB was one of their top priorities in the offseason, and then after they landed Fitz, he was clear that Fitz was the main guy they were targeting as a FA and he was excited to have him here.

 

I think if Fitz and Heinicke both look good in OTAs and preseason, it will more cement RR in his belief that he was right to give Heinicke a contract as a backup than it will push him towards starting him. They clearly are quite keen on Fitz from what they've said after signing him to what they've said since OTAs and other team activities started. So are his teammates.

 

And Rivera was also pretty clear at the end of last season that while he was impressed with how Heinicke played for a guy coming in off the street, the jury was still out on him because of having such a small sample size and also being able to play in that game as a guy with absolutely nothing to lose. But obviously he liked enough of what he saw to give him a 2 year deal of backup money (though to be fair, they also basically had no QBs besides Montez when they signed Heinicke, as I'm sure they knew they'd be releasing Alex).

 

All of that taken together indicates to me that Fitz probably has a pretty firm handle on the starting spot and it would take a serious regression in his play for Heinicke to unseat him. Doesn't mean it can't happen though.

 

As far as the age thing, it does have some merit, but I think it would have more merit if Heinicke was a 21 year old rookie...but he's 28 and he also does have an injury history as well to consider. 

[ODU AGGIE]

I've probably said this before, and I suppose most of you guys not enthusiastically voicing support for TH just can't make the leap that I can. I watched him for four years at ODU. Yep, that's mid level D1 football. But he threw for almost 15,000 yards, completing 67.7% of his passes, for 132 TDs, and a 155.9 passer rating. He also ran for over 1,300 yards and another 22 TDs, and I watched him doing all of that. Here's my point. Redskinss sees it, but a lot of you guys that have doubts because you have only seen him play for a game and a quarter, and in your eyes, surely that is not enough to validate his abilities. But I am here to tell you after observing his performance for many more years, what you saw of him last year is who he is. His poise in the pocket, his throwing accuracy, his ability to make quick reads, his knowledge of the game plan, his overall football smarts, and his ability take off for the first down when he needs to -- all of these are strong assets that he possesses and continues to demonstrate every time he plays.

 

I will add more later about the true story of his durability and his starting performance for Charlotte against the Falcons.

[redskinss]

18 minutes ago, mistertim said:

As far as the age thing, it does have some merit, but I think it would have more merit if Heinicke was a 21 year old rookie...

I think if Heinicke was a 21 year old rookie that'd be more reason for Rivera to start Fitzpatrick than if he's 28, in his prime quarterback years and has been in the league for several years learning game speed and play books. 

 

[Tsailand]

16 minutes ago, ODU AGGIE said:

I watched him for four years at ODU.

 

I like what I've seen from him in the NFL.  But we need to stop talking about college performance as if it was relevant in the NFL.

[Malapropismic Depository]

30 minutes ago, ODU AGGIE said:

I've probably said this before, and I suppose most of you guys not enthusiastically voicing support for TH just can't make the leap that I can. I watched him for four years at ODU. Yep, that's mid level D1 football. But he threw for almost 15,000 yards, completing 67.7% of his passes, for 132 TDs, and a 155.9 passer rating. He also ran for over 1,300 yards and another 22 TDs, and I watched him doing all of that. Here's my point. Redskinss sees it, but a lot of you guys that have doubts because you have only seen him play for a game and a quarter, and in your eyes, surely that is not enough to validate his abilities. But I am here to tell you after observing his performance for many more years, what you saw of him last year is who he is. His poise in the pocket, his throwing accuracy, his ability to make quick reads, his knowledge of the game plan, his overall football smarts, and his ability take off for the first down when he needs to -- all of these are strong assets that he possesses and continues to demonstrate every time he plays.

 

I will add more later about the true story of his durability and his starting performance for Charlotte against the Falcons.

 

What's the main reason he wasn't drafted ?

Height ?

Level of competition ?

Scouts and GM's flustered up, big-time ?

 

12 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

 

we need to stop talking about college performance as if it was relevant in the NFL.

 

 

That's exactly what NFL GM's, scouts, analysts, writers, fans, and everyone do, when they draft college players  ; And deem their 1st, 2nd, 3rd Round players as stalwarts of the future. And give them multi-million guaranteed contracts. Despite the large number of busts.

To a certain degree - the college play is relevant. Some overstate it. Some understate it. But it is relevant.

For whatever reason,  he has not yet received a full opportunity in the NFL. But he probably will in the future. And then, we can make a proper judgment

Edited May 31, 2021 by Malapropismic Depository

[Califan007 The Constipated]

13 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

 

I like what I've seen from him in the NFL.  But we need to stop talking about college performance as if it was relevant in the NFL.

yeah, who needs scouts lol...

[redskinss]

6 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

What's the main reason he wasn't drafted ?

Height ?

Level of competition ?

Scouts and GM's flustered up, big-time ?

Guys who overachieve in college and never do anything In the nfl are a dime a dozen.

Sometimes it's just that their games don't translate to the nfl.

Sometimes it's that they had a system tailor made for them to succeed that hid the flaws in their game that can't be hidden in the nfl, and sometimes a guy just doesn't have the unbridled commitment to succeed that is required to overcome physical limitations that they may have.

But every once in a while one of those guys slips through the cracks for all the above mentioned reasons and has the drive and skills to be a good to great nfl quarterback and hopefully Heinicke is one of those guys.

I understand the doubts based off the hundreds of Colt Brennans out there but Colt Brennan never put on a show in an nfl playoff game against the eventual superbowl Champs.

[ODU AGGIE]

3 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

What's the main reason he wasn't drafted ?

Height ?

Level of competition ?

Scouts and GM's flustered up, big-time ?

 

All of the above. 

[-9-]

my hope for Heinicke's trajectory/ceiling:

 

Edited May 31, 2021 by 09

[ODU AGGIE]

34 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

 

I like what I've seen from him in the NFL.  But we need to stop talking about college performance as if it was relevant in the NFL.

I kind of get your point, and I am glad that you liked what you have seen, but I think you missed my point. For all those who question his performance as lacking enough evidence to draw a conclusion, I am simply in fact providing relevance. I have watched him for a long time, and his performance for WFT is no surprise. What you saw is who he is.

[Malapropismic Depository]

Jarrett Patterson and Heinicke have several things in common ; including the very criteria, people use to doubt Heinicke.

But one strange difference.

 

- Both were undrafted

- Both were undersized

- Both went to smaller schools

- Both put up huge numbers against lesser competition.

 

Yet...before Patterson had even taken a handoff in Rookie Mini-Camp, numerous fans were already penciling him in, as a major contributor.

Meanwhile, Heinicke has gone beyond that, performing well in NFL regular season games, and even in a playoff game, against the impending Super Bowl Champs, and a top-ranked defense.

Yet, despite all the above, people still doubt Heinicke, but praise Patterson.
Tell me why ?

[mistertim]

29 minutes ago, ODU AGGIE said:

I kind of get your point, and I am glad that you liked what you have seen, but I think you missed my point. For all those who question his performance as lacking enough evidence to draw a conclusion, I am simply in fact providing relevance. I have watched him for a long time, and his performance for WFT is no surprise. What you saw is who he is.

 

But there's also no denying the fact that actual NFL scouts didn't see it the way you do, and that he was also signed and then released by 4 NFL teams before we picked him up.

 

As others have noted, there are plenty of guys who put up gaudy record setting stats in college but never did anything in the NFL despite their college hype. Colt Brennan (Rest In Peace) was a prime example.

 

1 hour ago, redskinss said:

I think if Heinicke was a 21 year old rookie that'd be more reason for Rivera to start Fitzpatrick than if he's 28, in his prime quarterback years and has been in the league for several years learning game speed and play books. 

 

 

I can see that, but I was thinking more along the lines of if he was a 21 year old rookie and showed flashes that RR might be more inclined to say "I should put him in there so he can grow and learn and we can see how he progresses". I know Heinicke hasn't played a lot in the NFL, but he has been on 5 NFL teams so it's not like the game is unfamiliar to him.

Edited May 31, 2021 by mistertim

[Malapropismic Depository]

Another thing that doesn't make sense, is that all fans seem to know and realize that NFL Front Office pick 1st Round Busts repeatedly, all the time ; even OVERALL 1st Round Picks.

But yet, they don't consider the possibility, that those same far-from-perfect FO's who picked busts, could have possibly "missed" on a good player that they allowed to go undrafted.

 

How could people realize the erroneous ways of FO's that cause them to pick so many busts, but not consider that that surely means they would also be expected to "miss" on undrafted players ?

[Comrade Wolf]

I don’t know why this dude wasn’t drafted with these combine numbers but alas he wasn’t 🤷‍♂️. The QB below was signed as an undrafted free agent.... the numbers below scream pro bowl and HOF right ... my point is you never really know until you have them on your roster, the guy who’s numbers these are somehow ended up being pretty darn good though I hate him 🤣🤣. 

bine Invite: Yes Height: 6020 Weight: 230 Zybek PD3X AKA "Official" 40 Yard Dash (ET): 5.01 40 Yard Dash (HH):  20 Yard (ET): 2.90 20 Yard (HH):  10 Yard (ET): 1.72 10 Yard (HH):

225 Lb. Bench Reps:  Vertical Jump: 30 Broad Jump: 08'09" 20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.20 3-Cone Drill: 7.11

[Comrade Wolf]

Apparently I ain’t smart enough to attach a picture 🤦🏼‍♂️. It was Tony Romo 🤮

[Malapropismic Depository]

22 minutes ago, A-Lost-Wolf said:

Apparently I ain’t smart enough to attach a picture 🤦🏼‍♂️. It was Tony Romo 🤮

 

Not to show off my picture skills, but I will make your write-up about Romo complete

 

 

Edited May 31, 2021 by Malapropismic Depository

[Dark Acre]

On 5/28/2021 at 5:45 AM, RWJ said:

They may but RR will probably want to keep him as our franchise QB if he can withstand the hits after putting on the extra mass/muscle.

Let me put it in Jack Kent Cooke terms:  "sheer unadulterated, uncompromising ecstasy"  TH's offseason maturation putting in the effort and time.  LOL

Nevermind that nonsense about euphoria.

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, ODU AGGIE said:

I kind of get your point, and I am glad that you liked what you have seen, but I think you missed my point. For all those who question his performance as lacking enough evidence to draw a conclusion, I am simply in fact providing relevance. I have watched him for a long time, and his performance for WFT is no surprise. What you saw is who he is.

 

My concern with Taylor has nothing to do with performance, My concern is lifetime - 2 starts, injured twice. That scares the life out of me. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 hour ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Jarrett Patterson and Heinicke have several things in common ; including the very criteria, people use to doubt Heinicke.

But one strange difference.

 

- Both were undrafted

- Both were undersized

- Both went to smaller schools

- Both put up huge numbers against lesser competition.

 

Yet...before Patterson had even taken a handoff in Rookie Mini-Camp, numerous fans were already penciling him in, as a major contributor.

Meanwhile, Heinicke has gone beyond that, performing well in NFL regular season games, and even in a playoff game, against the impending Super Bowl Champs, and a top-ranked defense.

Yet, despite all the above, people still doubt Heinicke, but praise Patterson.
Tell me why ?

Probably because transitioning from college to the NFL is much easier for an RB than for a QB...

 

 

3 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

My concern with Taylor has nothing to do with performance, My concern is lifetime - 2 starts, injured twice. That scares the life out of me. 

He did finish the game, though, and as far as I know did not need any major type of rehabilitation effort, though...or did he? lol

Edited May 31, 2021 by Califan007

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Another thing that doesn't make sense, is that all fans seem to know and realize that NFL Front Office pick 1st Round Busts repeatedly, all the time ; even OVERALL 1st Round Picks.

But yet, they don't consider the possibility, that those same far-from-perfect FO's who picked busts, could have possibly "missed" on a good player that they allowed to go undrafted.

 

How could people realize the erroneous ways of FO's that cause them to pick so many busts, but not consider that that surely means they would also be expected to "miss" on undrafted players ?

 

The hit rate on 1st round QBs is WAY higher than it is after the 1st round, but clearly there are still plenty of busts. It's still quite an imperfect science, of course. 

 

But to address your question...is it possible that the FOs and coaches from 32 teams all completely whiffed on a star for 7 rounds? Sure, anything is possible. Is it likely? Very much no.

 

There are only handful of undrafted guys who went on to be star players: Moon, Warner, Garcia and Romo (though Garcia and Romo aren't on the Moon or Warner level IMO); Moon also voluntarily signed with the CFL before the NFL draft because he was worried he'd be a late round pick so his situation was also a little different. Delhomme and Kitna were basically just serviceable starters for a while, not stars.

 

That's out of how many QBs who went undrafted in the last 30 years? Probably hundreds?

 

Sure, you could also say "Well, maybe if some of those guys had gotten a chance they could have been stars" but that's basically like trying to prove a negative and more of a pure philosophical question.

 

I totally get the allure of finding that late round/undrafted diamond in the rough star that everyone missed out on. Seriously, I do. But it happens so rarely that you'd probably have more success playing the lottery.

[redskinss]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

There are only handful of undrafted guys who went on to be star players: Moon, Warner, Garcia and Romo (though Garcia and Romo aren't on the Moon or Warner level IMO); Moon also voluntarily signed with the CFL before the NFL draft because he was worried he'd be a late round pick so his situation was also a little different. Delhomme and Kitna were b

You forgot about Dave krieg

[mistertim]

13 minutes ago, redskinss said:

You forgot about Dave krieg

 

True, good pull. Forgot about him. IMO not on the Moon and Warner level but definitely on the Garcia/Romo level.

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, Califan007 said:

Probably because transitioning from college to the NFL is much easier for an RB than for a QB...

 

 

He did finish the game, though, and as far as I know did not need any major type of rehabilitation effort, though...or did he? lol

 

I love the guy and like his effort and courage. He showed good game ability. But with getting injured twice in two starts, it's fair to be concerned if he can stay healthy, regardless of the seriousness of those injuries. Even small injuries can add up over a full season. 

 

[ODU AGGIE]

3 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

I love the guy and like his effort and courage. He showed good game ability. But with getting injured twice in two starts, it's fair to be concerned if he can stay healthy, regardless of the seriousness of those injuries. Even small injuries can add up over a full season. 

 

It's kind of interesting that one game as a Panther and one and a quarter games with WTF are not enough for some to conclude that TH is indeed a QB with valid NFL starting ability, but two games is enough to conclude that he is of doubtful durability, even though he did not miss a series in one of those full games and returned despite the injury in the other. I would also venture to guess that a significant number of NFL players have left a game with a ding only to return to finish the game.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

A little NSFW language (I'm just posting pro-Heineken stuff lol)...