WP: California to stop sales of new gas-powered cars by 2035

[Dr. Do Itch Big]

2 hours ago, Xameil said:

Oh...I was talking about SoCa....northern CA gets most of theirs from Oregon and their wind and hydroelectric

You’ll be amazed at how many solar panels are in central California. 10 years compared to now it’s amazing. Every high school in my hometown has solar panels covering the parking areas. 

[Springfield]

Well, that’s scary...

[mammajamma]

35 minutes ago, just654 said:

I think there is plenty of excuses. 
 

1. takes to long to charge even the “quick” charge is 20 mins and only gets you another 100 miles or so, you need to get it so a full charge takes under 10 mins.

2. not enough charging stations. Yes, they are getting more. But until just about every gas station off the highway has at least 3 charging stations. 
3. batteries don’t go as long has a normal gas tank. I can 350-400 miles out a tank of gas. Your lucky if you get 250-300 miles per charge 

4. cost of them. Yes Tesla is coming in when cheaper cars. But as I said before Americans love big SUVS. Chevy and Ford in the last few years have gotten rid of sedans. The Tesla I would buy costs about 110k. Even the Truck Tesla is 85k the way most people will want it. 
 

These are just the big ones I can quickly come up with

For 1 & 2, charging stations are EVERYWHERE in California already. Range anxiety isnt really a thing here anymore. Every grocery store, apartment building, mall, city center, etc etc etc, have them available now. And have 15 years to expand it even more. Even on the longest stretches of I-5 where you're in the middle of nowhere for 3 hours, there are supercharging stations on a lot of exits

For 3, batteries are already close to beating almost all cars for range, and tesla just announced new tech out in the next 2-3 years which will crush ICE mileage range. Guessing its not a coincidence that these 2 announcements (tesla and newsome) were so close together

For 4, a lot of companies who make the big cars are now rushing to make electric versions too. They have to in order to keep up with European countries that have the same regulations, and also to keep up with the company that is now fastest selling car company in the world. I think I just read yesterday about an electric F150 thats coming soon. I'm sure Honda, who is probably the biggest SUV seller, will have no problem make electric versions

Edited September 23, 2020 by mammajamma

[Xameil]

14 minutes ago, Dr. Do Itch Big said:

You’ll be amazed at how many solar panels are in central California. 10 years compared to now it’s amazing. Every high school in my hometown has solar panels covering the parking areas. 

I'm just going off what I read...oh and solar panels really aren't as efficient as you'd hope.

The more efficient energy is coming from outside CA...they get most of it from neighboring states.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

Sounds good to me.  However in order for that to happen we are gonna need EVs with decent range (250 miles min) starting at around 20k, and a substantial investment in infrastructure to support charging. California can’t produce enough electricity to meet current demands, I don’t know how they are gonna provide enough electricity for every one to charge their car.

 

 

i understand there are alternatives to electric cars, but they are the ones closest to being affordable and the ones 

most easy to adopt since everyone already had access to the fuel.

[mammajamma]

UK is also doing by 2035, and they have more than double the amount of cars on the road as California. So if we want to at least keep up with the rest of world, this is necessary.

 

If anything 2035 is too long.. Most of the permanent damage will be done by then anyway. Might as well try though

[ExoDus84]

1 hour ago, DCSaints_fan said:

 

Electric cars can plugged in at home and charged overnight.  There are also many charging stations at apartment complexes, and some offices and some parking lots at malls and shopping centers.

 

Like I mentioned, we need more infrastructure. I've lived in a dozen different complexes in and around southern California and only one of them had an area where you could charge your car, and it was 2 or 3 bays. I'm talking about Orange County, as well; one of the wealthiest counties in the state. If you own a home, you're fine, but with housing already at unaffordable levels (to be generous), you have to rely on apartment amenities.

Now that I think about, going complete ICE-free takes a backseat to our housing crisis in this state. I'd like to not have to pay $2k per month for a 1 bedroom apartment before I worry about going completely vehicle green.

[TheGreatBuzz]

1 hour ago, just654 said:

3. batteries don’t go as long has a normal gas tank. I can 350-400 miles out a tank of gas. Your lucky if you get 250-300 miles per charge 

 

 

I get at least 600+ miles to a tank of fuel (50 gallon tank of diesel 😎).

[TradeTheBeal!]

1 hour ago, Xameil said:

 

The more efficient energy is coming from outside CA...they get most of it from neighboring states.

Appropriate, as California has roughly 20x the population and 50x the GDP of those “neighboring states”.

[TheGoodBits]

Kudos to California for its leadership. People who think 2035 is unreasonable haven’t been paying attention to the extraordinary pace of innovation and improvements in EV and battery technology in the past few years. 
 

 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

6 minutes ago, skinsfan_1215 said:

Kudos to California for its leadership. People who think 2035 is unreasonable haven’t been paying attention to the extraordinary pace of innovation and improvements in EV and battery technology in the past few years. 
 

 

I don’t think it’s reasonable from a power availability stand Point. There are already rolling blackouts in California...

[China]

3 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

I don’t think it’s reasonable from a power availability stand Point. There are already rolling blackouts in California...

 

Are you saying they won't be able to power all of those Teslas when they become the number 1 car manufacturer?

[Destino]

1 hour ago, mammajamma said:

UK is also doing by 2035, and they have more than double the amount of cars on the road as California. So if we want to at least keep up with the rest of world, this is necessary.

 

If anything 2035 is too long.. Most of the permanent damage will be done by then anyway. Might as well try though

UK is also much smaller than California.  People over there think a two hour drive is a long haul, in the US that’s nothing,  

[TheGoodBits]

35 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

I don’t think it’s reasonable from a power availability stand Point. There are already rolling blackouts in California...

It’ll probably be fine. Most charging would take place at night when there is reduced demand across the board. 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

18 minutes ago, skinsfan_1215 said:

It’ll probably be fine. Most charging would take place at night when there is reduced demand across the board. 

 

 

right now they can’t meat electricity demands. right now, ev share is about 5 percent of the total number of new car registrations. What happens when the other 95 percent of cars need to be charged?

 

https://www.cncda.org/wp-content/uploads/Cal-Covering-4Q-19.pdf

[mammajamma]

1 hour ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

 

right now they can’t meat electricity demands. right now, ev share is about 5 percent of the total number of new car registrations. What happens when the other 95 percent of cars need to be charged?

 

https://www.cncda.org/wp-content/uploads/Cal-Covering-4Q-19.pdf

CA is requiring all new buildings to be powered by solar going forward, which will take some of the stress off the grid.

 

Also a study showed that this worry is a little overblown:

"The report concludes that 3.9 million PEVs would suck up about 5 percent of the state's current power needs, adding 15,500 gigawatt-hours to charging demand."

 

Yes, there would need to be improvements to the power grid, but its definitely doable, and well worth the extra work to do so.

 

Also, just read that this just states that no new gas car can be sold by 2035. You can still buy and sell used cars after the deadline, which puts an ease on the transition even more

Edited September 24, 2020 by mammajamma

[Hersh]

3 hours ago, just654 said:

I think there is plenty of excuses. 
 

1. takes to long to charge even the “quick” charge is 20 mins and only gets you another 100 miles or so, you need to get it so a full charge takes under 10 mins.

2. not enough charging stations. Yes, they are getting more. But until just about every gas station off the highway has at least 3 charging stations. 
3. batteries don’t go as long has a normal gas tank. I can 350-400 miles out a tank of gas. Your lucky if you get 250-300 miles per charge 

4. cost of them. Yes Tesla is coming in when cheaper cars. But as I said before Americans love big SUVS. Chevy and Ford in the last few years have gotten rid of sedans. The Tesla I would buy costs about 110k. Even the Truck Tesla is 85k the way most people will want it. 
 

These are just the big ones I can quickly come up with

 

How many drivers are going nonstop for 400+ miles in a single day? Almost none and those do stop to eat and use the bathroom. 

2 hours ago, Xameil said:

I'm just going off what I read...oh and solar panels really aren't as efficient as you'd hope.

The more efficient energy is coming from outside CA...they get most of it from neighboring states.

 

Getting solar panels to be more efficient should be a nationwide, we are going to the moon, type project. 

[mammajamma]

54 minutes ago, Destino said:

UK is also much smaller than California.  People over there think a two hour drive is a long haul, in the US that’s nothing,  

Not sure how that's relevant? California's EV charging infrastructure is already significantly better than the UK's, so driving distance isn't really a big deal. So CA already has a jump on them, with less than half of the amount of cars. If the UK can do it, California definitely can

[Hersh]

44 minutes ago, skinsfan_1215 said:

It’ll probably be fine. Most charging would take place at night when there is reduced demand across the board. 

 

Solar on the house charges the Tesla wall unit battery generator which ultimately powers the car being recharged at night. 

[Destino]

13 minutes ago, mammajamma said:

Not sure how that's relevant? California's EV charging infrastructure is already significantly better than the UK's, so driving distance isn't really a big deal. So CA already has a jump on them, with less than half of the amount of cars. If the UK can do it, California definitely can

It won’t be relevant if charging times are greatly reduced in the next 15 years.  Having an unexpected errand come up when your battery is low today however is a real problem.  So is driving further than your max range.  These aren’t problems with gas vehicles.  
 

These problems come up more frequently in a country where people drive much further than folks in the UK.  Things are more spread out here, and in rural areas long distances are the only distances. 

[Hersh]

6 minutes ago, Destino said:

It won’t be relevant if charging times are greatly reduced in the next 15 years.  Having an unexpected errand come up when your battery is low today however is a real problem.  So is driving further than your max range.  These aren’t problems with gas vehicles.  
 

These problems come up more frequently in a country where people drive much further than folks in the UK.  Things are more spread out here, and in rural areas long distances are the only distances. 

How far are people in rural areas really driving nonstop? 

[mammajamma]

17 minutes ago, Hersh said:

How far are people in rural areas really driving nonstop? 

not to mention, even in rural areas of california, charging stations are pretty prevalent already. also, we're already at 250-300 miles for a lot of EVs. Which is about the same as most gas cars. And Imagine how much higher thats going to be after 15 years of innovation.

Edited September 24, 2020 by mammajamma

[Destino]

22 minutes ago, Hersh said:

How far are people in rural areas really driving nonstop? 

Non stop isn’t the only consideration. Brief stops, battery charging times, weight in their vehicle, and types of charging stations and how many there are (and where) matter too.  Every driver in the gig economy is another good example of this too. 

 

The other thing is that too much is made out of averages and not enough about the outlier days.  Americans absolutely drive far beyond their gas tanks max capacity and often get stuck in traffic while doing it.  If I run low in the middle of nowhere unexpectedly, what happens?  With gas powered vehicles I just get off at the next exit and I’m back on the road in 10 minutes.  
 

To be clear I’m 100% in favor of electric cars, I’ve loved the idea since we built one in auto shop a million years ago in high school.  I just want one that’s at least as good in all areas as my gas powered car.  Not a pain in the ass that leaves me stranded in banjo country, nor a car that requires me to stop for eight hours to continue onto the next 250 mile leg of my trip.  I think they’ll get there, but I understand a lengthy timeline.  Battery advances have been slow and littered with unmet expectations. 

[Hersh]

2 minutes ago, Destino said:

Non stop isn’t the only consideration. Brief stops, battery charging times, weight in their vehicle, and types of charging stations and how many there are (and where) matter too.  Every driver in the gig economy is another good example of this too. 

 

The other thing is that too much is made out of averages and not enough about the outlier days.  Americans absolutely drive far beyond their gas tanks max capacity and often get stuck in traffic while doing it.  If I run low in the middle of nowhere unexpectedly, what happens?  With gas powered vehicles I just get off at the next exit and I’m back on the road in 10 minutes.  

why would their not be infrastructure in place in 15 years? If you can get off at the next exit now, you’d certainly be able to with an EV 15 years from now. 
 

13 years ago, the Chevy volt was the first plug in hybrid with 30 miles on the battery. Now we have all EV that can go 300+ miles. Tech will only improve over 15 years. 
 

 

[mammajamma]

32 minutes ago, Destino said:

Non stop isn’t the only consideration. Brief stops, battery charging times, weight in their vehicle, and types of charging stations and how many there are (and where) matter too.  Every driver in the gig economy is another good example of this too. 

 

The other thing is that too much is made out of averages and not enough about the outlier days.  Americans absolutely drive far beyond their gas tanks max capacity and often get stuck in traffic while doing it.  If I run low in the middle of nowhere unexpectedly, what happens?  With gas powered vehicles I just get off at the next exit and I’m back on the road in 10 minutes.  
 

To be clear I’m 100% in favor of electric cars, I’ve loved the idea since we built one in auto shop a million years ago in high school.  I just want one that’s at least as good in all areas as my gas powered car.  Not a pain in the ass that leaves me stranded in banjo country, nor a car that requires me to stop for eight hours to continue onto the next 250 mile leg of my trip.  I think they’ll get there, but I understand a lengthy timeline.  Battery advances have been slow and littered with unmet expectations. 

Superchargers can add 75 miles in 5 minutes, 180 miles in 15 minutes, or up to 90% in 37 minutes. And superchargers are already all over the place.