A New Start! (the Reboot) The Front Office, Ownership, & Coaching Staff Thread

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

32 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I'd put money that Dan told Goodell and the other owners, it's not him who is the reason for declining attendance but its the declining stadium.   

I have no doubts that this is what Dan tells himself and anyone who will listen, but everyone with a partially functioning brain knows damn good well thats an absolute BS excuse.  The place has been a dump since it opened and I've spent a ton of money as well as hours of time sitting in traffic in and out of that dump.  People didn't just decide to stop going because the stadium sucks, if you put a product in there that people can get behind - they'd willfully get poop spewed on them.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

54 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I have no doubts that this is what Dan tells himself and anyone who will listen, but everyone with a partially functioning brain knows damn good well thats an absolute BS excuse.  The place has been a dump since it opened and I've spent a ton of money as well as hours of time sitting in traffic in and out of that dump.  People didn't just decide to stop going because the stadium sucks, if you put a product in there that people can get behind - they'd willfully get poop spewed on them.

 

Yeah I agree.  Dan is 100% responsible for the demise of this fan base.  But the dude according to most is all about excuses so I'd bet this is the one he's hanging on. 

 

One other odd thing about being a fan of this team -- with a twist thanks to Dan's dysfunction is how this fan base sadly has to argue sometimes among each other about the demise of the fan base and the reasons for it -- as you know on the Bruce-FO thread we made some enemies by simply making the case that the ship is sinking and its happening right in front of our eyes and it felt obvious as heck. 

 

Some people really got hot about it and hated those who made that point.  But its a sad fact from being a fan of this team that on occasion (less now than years ago) that we have hot arguments amongst each other about why the team's fan base is declining -- and some actually blamed us the fans for not accepting things for as they were and we should be embracing it all.   

 

In short though the very nature of some of the heated arguments we have here are somewhat unique to this team.

Edited July 21, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Some people really got hot about it and hated those who made that point.  But its a sad fact from being a fan of this team that on occasion (less now than years ago) that we have hot arguments amongst each other about why the team's fan base is declining -- and some actually blamed us the fans for not accepting things for as they were and we should be embracing it all. 

No doubt.

 

And rather than just admit what’s been staring them in the face for years and years, they’ll blame it on people being bad fans or sheep that believe the media and their conspiracy against Dan and the team.

 

A fan base as rabid as this one was, not even that long ago, doesn’t just disappear because the WaPo finally wrote enough mean stories about Dan, or the team lost one too many games.

 

When you lack class in everything you do, it kills your brand.  It doesn’t happen overnight, it’s a slow burn.  But anyone with eyes not covered by burgundy and gold glasses could see the smoke for quite some time.  

 

 

[FLSkinz83]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

No doubt.

 

And rather than just admit what’s been staring them in the face for years and years, they’ll blame it on people being bad fans or sheep that believe the media and their conspiracy against Dan and the team.

 

A fan base as rabid as this one was, not even that long ago, doesn’t just disappear because the WaPo finally wrote enough mean stories about Dan, or the team lost one too many games.

 

When you lack class in everything you do, it kills your brand.  It doesn’t happen overnight, it’s a slow burn.  But anyone with eyes not covered by burgundy and gold glasses could see the smoke for quite some time.  

 

 

 

How do you think you would feel about the team if Dan wasn't a douche, but the results were the same?

[Jumbo]

25 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

How do you think you would feel about the team if Dan wasn't a douche, but the results were the same?

 

 

what is this continuous obsession you have with people's take on dan and how it impacts their views/choices on the team/business he owns?

 

you come off like this perpetually disturbed dude with some form of agenda (there's a couple i can think of) who's trying to manage so you can indulge your needs without too much censure/blowback from those you want to push on the matter

 

you seem to have some burning need to persuade people that they "should"  completely separate  how they view/support the team from how they feel or think about it's ownership

 

it's pretty common for people's outlooks on supporting a non-essential enterprise/business to be affected for better or worse by an owner who's persona is very much something regularly in the media over many years, positive or negative

 

the issue you have here is that you're the one feeling disturbed and you want others to change your feelings by them changing their thinking...not a viable plan... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

49 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

How do you think you would feel about the team if Dan wasn't a douche, but the results were the same?

 

They've been bad for about 30 years now...so not exactly the lovable loser territory of the Cubs and Red Sox of last century, but a pretty significant stretch of time. So, I think if they were a well-regarded organization with a respected owner that had identical on-the-field results, there would be much more passion locally. I also think you'd have more out-of-market fans and media rooting for their resurgence and missing the "glory days" of when the Redskins (because I believe without a hated owner, they'd still be the Redskins) were one of the NFL's best. 

[FLSkinz83]

29 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

They've been bad for about 30 years now...so not exactly the lovable loser territory of the Cubs and Red Sox of last century, but a pretty significant stretch of time. So, I think if they were a well-regarded organization with a respected owner that had identical on-the-field results, there would be much more passion locally. I also think you'd have more out-of-market fans and media rooting for their resurgence and missing the "glory days" of when the Redskins (because I believe without a hated owner, they'd still be the Redskins) were one of the NFL's best. 

 

I def. think the hatred for Dan contributed to the name change and the difficulty in getting a new stadium.      I'm not sure how passionate the fans would be still be though.

 

30 years without an 11 win season, plus the Ravens moving to the area (and winning) would diminish the passion/following/attendance no matter if Dan was a douche or well liked.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

3 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

I def. think the hatred for Dan contributed to the name change and the difficulty in getting a new stadium.      I'm not sure how passionate the fans would be still be though.

 

30 years without an 11 win season, plus the Ravens moving to the area (and winning) would diminish the passion/following/attendance no matter if Dan was a douche or well liked.

 

Agree to disagree...even before the "verdict was in" on Snyder being a bad man, there was still a lot of excitement at the 15-20 year marks. Fans were showing up, TV ratings were up, Skins discussion dominated the radio airwaves, etc. To me, the past 2-3 years with all the misconduct and cheerleader video stuff is what has really changed the narrative. 

[FLSkinz83]

38 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Agree to disagree...even before the "verdict was in" on Snyder being a bad man, there was still a lot of excitement at the 15-20 year marks. Fans were showing up, TV ratings were up, Skins discussion dominated the radio airwaves, etc. To me, the past 2-3 years with all the misconduct and cheerleader video stuff is what has really changed the narrative. 

 

I actually think 2009 was really bad.   From what I remember, people weren't going to games and there was a lot of hatred towards Dan because of Vinny, Zorn, etc...

But then he hired Shanny and people were even happy with Bruce at the time and things seemed to become a lot more positive.    There was hope we would win.

 

12 years later, I think people have resigned to the fact we're never winning with Dan and have tuned out.     I'm just curious to see what will happen if we do win 11+ games, win a playoff game, etc..

 

By the way - It's July and there's nothing else to talk about.   I'd much rather talk about us signing a LB.

Edited July 21, 2022 by FLSkinz83

[TD_washingtonredskins]

5 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

I actually think 2009 was really bad.   From what I remember, people weren't going to games and there was a lot of hatred towards Dan because of Vinny, Zorn, etc...

But then he hired Shanny and people were even happy with Bruce at the time and things seemed to become a lot more positive.    There was hope we would win.

 

12 years later, I think people have resigned to the fact we're never winning with Dan and have tuned out.     I'm just curious to see what will happen if we do win 11+ games, win a playoff game, etc..

 

By the way - It's July and there's nothing else to talk about.   I'd much rather talk about us signing a LB.

 

That's fair...but you're again pointing out that there was "hatred towards Dan" not "anger about losing" on the field. 

[The Rook]

2 hours ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

How do you think you would feel about the team if Dan wasn't a douche, but the results were the same?

 

Ambiguous question.  When you say "results", are you just referring to win/loss or the entire crap-storm.  I feel the results could not have been the same if he had not been a douche.  He has fired the wrong people and also hired the wrong people.  He always takes the low road.

Doesn't matter, he IS typhoid Mary and there IS stench everywhere.🤢

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 hours ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

How do you think you would feel about the team if Dan wasn't a douche, but the results were the same?

Ultimately, it all goes hand in hand.  A lot of what makes Dan a douche impacts the performance of the football team.

 

What I can say with certainty is that I wouldn't have the level of apathy that I've had over the last several years.  I don't find Ron and the setup they have with the FO to be ideal to say the least - but I do find him to be likeable and I can respect what he's done here all things considered.  But by no means am I as involved and engaged about this team as I used to and I attribute that solely the Snyderitis being exhausting.

 

 

 

 

[FLSkinz83]

20 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

That's fair...but you're again pointing out that there was "hatred towards Dan" not "anger about losing" on the field. 

 

I think they go together.  There was anger about losing; which led towards hatred of Snyder because he was heavily involved in the decision making.

[goskins10]

6 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

I think they go together.  There was anger about losing; which led towards hatred of Snyder because he was heavily involved in the decision making.

 

they go together to a certain extent but not completely.  I hate, and have hated Dan for reasons that have nothing to do with the product on the field but also hate him for how he has ruined that product.  Both can be true.  
 

not saying you, but many have been (this was me at some point a long time ago)  and still are on the just win and it will be ok.  
 

But as time goes on less and less people would give him some sort of benifit of the doubt if the team starting winner.  

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I'm just happy that I haven't had to read any Jack Del Rio drama on Twitter lol...I can only imagine what he would have tossed out there.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

17 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

I think they go together.  There was anger about losing; which led towards hatred of Snyder because he was heavily involved in the decision making.

 

Eh, for some, I'm sure you're right. But there are many of us who stayed around and even made excuses for the team and the owner until the evidence that he was a bad person just became too overwhelming. For me, it was a few years ago (and I probably lasted far longer than I should have, but I kept my head in the sand). 

 

They lost for 5 years under the Cookes (1993-1998) and then for 20ish years under Snyder (1999-2020) before I couldn't handle the allegations against him. That's when I went from religiously watching the team every Sunday since the early-1980s to watching RedZone. 

 

So, it wasn't the losing, it was the hatred of their owner and the stamp he had put on the organization. 

[FLSkinz83]

44 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

they go together to a certain extent but not completely.  I hate, and have hated Dan for reasons that have nothing to do with the product on the field but also hate him for how he has ruined that product.  Both can be true.  
 

not saying you, but many have been (this was me at some point a long time ago)  and still are on the just win and it will be ok.  
 

But as time goes on less and less people would give him some sort of benifit of the doubt if the team starting winner.  

 

Oh, I'm definitely in the camp of if they start winning, the fans will be back.  With or without Dan as the owner.   I could be totally wrong, but let's get the winning part first.

 

I will concede that it will take more winning than I previously thought.   They would need probably need 4-5 straight playoff appearances or a Superbowl appearance to get most people back.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

3 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

Oh, I'm definitely in the camp of if they start winning, the fans will be back.  With or without Dan as the owner.   I could be totally wrong, but let's get the winning part first.

 

I will concede that it will take more winning than I previously thought.   They would need probably need 4-5 straight playoff appearances or a Superbowl appearance to get most people back.

 

Here's how I see it...

 

If Snyder never existed or was just your typical rich doofus owner, I think a modest amount of winning with this fan base would bring 80-85% of the fans back to their original passion levels. By "modest amount" I mean nothing more than 3-4 years of contention where they are clearly a threat each of those years to make the playoffs (and they do, in fact, make the playoffs a couple times). By the 4th or 5th year you'd be at that 85% number, in my opinion. 

 

With Snyder, however, I think there is a much larger number of fans who will never come back at all and another decent chunk who will never get back to their original passion levels no matter how much winning this team stumbles into. I think the organization has lost a solid 40% of its original fan base due to all the extra BS that Snyder and his culture has brought to the table. Some fans will always come back with even the hint of success on the field...they could start 1-0 next year, squeaking by Jacksonville and that small-but-loud faction of the fan base will be there with face paint and "I told you so's" ready to go. But even 3 Super Bowls in 5 years wouldn't restore what we had in the 1980s because of what's gone on here since 2000. 

 

Just my take. I think he's destroyed the relationship too much. 

[bird_1972]

8 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

Oh, I'm definitely in the camp of if they start winning, the fans will be back.  With or without Dan as the owner.   I could be totally wrong, but let's get the winning part first.

 

I will concede that it will take more winning than I previously thought.   They would need probably need 4-5 straight playoff appearances or a Superbowl appearance to get most people back.

 

Hahahahahaha!

 

Good luck with that!

[Cooleyfan1993]

7 minutes ago, bird_1972 said:

 

Hahahahahaha!

 

Good luck with that!

In his defense, he said they’d need it, he didn’t say they’d GET that. Those are two different things. 

 

I do wonder what the vibe on here will be at the end of the season if (IF, I’m saying IF, for those that will twist my words) the team wins the division with 10+ wins and looks good doing it. Because if that happens (again, IF), then that would mean there will be no negative things to talk about surrounding the team. 

 

 

 

Edited July 21, 2022 by Cooleyfan1993

[goskins10]

15 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

Oh, I'm definitely in the camp of if they start winning, the fans will be back.  With or without Dan as the owner.   I could be totally wrong, but let's get the winning part first.

 

I will concede that it will take more winning than I previously thought.   They would need probably need 4-5 straight playoff appearances or a Superbowl appearance to get most people back.

 

Fan in the stands or stop hating Dan? I was discussing the hatred for Dan. I agree winning would bring some, probably a lot of people back to the stadium. But the hatred for Dan would remain very high. Maybe a few change thier minds but I think the majority would still hate Dan even if they came back to the stadium. 

[profusion]

2 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Agree to disagree...even before the "verdict was in" on Snyder being a bad man, there was still a lot of excitement at the 15-20 year marks. Fans were showing up, TV ratings were up, Skins discussion dominated the radio airwaves, etc. To me, the past 2-3 years with all the misconduct and cheerleader video stuff is what has really changed the narrative. 

 

The fan relationship has been slowly eroding for years. I date the real decline to the RG3 debacle. That one brief glimmer of hope in 2012 brought the enthusiasm back in a way I hadn't seen since the early '90s, but the crushing nature of the way it ended--plus the fallout with Kirk, Bruce, Jay and the rest--was a clear turning point. 

 

Before 2012, people loathed Dan but there was still a lot of residual love for the organization. After 2012, that's been changing year by year.

 

If Dan was a "lovable loser", I think the fan support would still be strong. If he was a "winning weasel", I'm not sure. I suspect there'd be a lot more people (here and elsewhere) attempt to excuse the inexcusable. For all I know, I'd be one of them, though I hate to admit that.

[FLSkinz83]

21 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Fan in the stands or stop hating Dan? I was discussing the hatred for Dan. I agree winning would bring some, probably a lot of people back to the stadium. But the hatred for Dan would remain very high. Maybe a few change thier minds but I think the majority would still hate Dan even if they came back to the stadium. 

 

Fans in the stands and the general passion for team.   At this point, Dan will be hated no matter what.

[goskins10]

57 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

Fans in the stands and the general passion for team.   At this point, Dan will be hated no matter what.

 

As well he should, the ****ing piece of dog ****. Lowest form of life there is. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I can comparmentalize my feeling about the team to some extent versus my feelings about Dan but only purely in the context of enjoying the actual games and rooting the team on.   And I have personal reasons for rooting for this team that goes far back so Dan can't really chase me away but if I were a more casual fan like i am of some of my other favorite sports teams, he'd have chased me away by now.  It's not the losing that bothers me the most -- its the sleaziness.  

 

It's tough for me to divorce Dan though from my experience as a fan mostly in these three departments.

 

A.  Dan has made it somewhat embarassing that I am a fan of this team (not always but sometimes) when talking to other football fans.   We are a punchline.  But worse than that because Dan is sleazy some suggest that there is some sleaziness to the idea about rooting for this team. 

 

B.  Playing off of Point B, we aren't the lovable losers.  We are seen by some as the bad guys because Dan is seen as a bad guy.  When the Cubs for example finally won a World Series, they were the lovable losers leading up to that.    This team has accomplished something rare thanks to Dan -- we are losers but far from lovable.  Usually teams that are hated are hated in part because of their success -- that's not the case here.

 

C. Dan himself IMO is a big part of why this team loses.  So tough for me to just ignore Dan considering Dan's stench is all over the losing. The interference.  The bad culture.  the 2nd class approach to just about everything.  On and on.  It feels like it will never end with Dan in charge.

 

Having said that it amazes me that this team hasn't lucked into more success.  Some stragglers here contend there are other owners who are just as bad as Dan.  I 100% disagree.  Dan to me is easily the worst.  But I do agree that there are other bad owners.  Yet those teams have had more success for the most part.  We are the only team without more than 10 wins in the last 30 years. We've have among the least playoff wins during the Dan era.  On and on as to a number of metrics.

 

I do believe a team can luck their way into some success even if poorly run. 

 

For example for all of Dan's dalliances with personnel, McNabb, Haskins, Guice, RG3, M. Kelly,  Jeff George on and on -- you'd figure he'd at least get lucky once?   I think a 3rd grader can randomly shoot darts at some of personnel stuff and just by random statistical average eventually land on some success in the mix of failures.  Dan's failures are unbelievable in that he is so bad when he mixes in name that personnel move that he doesn't even enjoy just random luck success.  And I do think that can change at any time so as far as hope goes, that's my hope which is Dan is due for some random luck success -- I think he's as dumb and sleazy as it gets but even the blind squirrel gets their acorn every now and then.  And boy is Dan due for some blind squirrel success. 

Edited July 21, 2022 by Skinsinparadise