2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Warhead36]

I wouldn’t mind moving up for Moehrig

[KDawg]

37 minutes ago, Rolo Tomasie said:

What we can say for sure is that the team felt JD was a better fit for this D than JOK, which is interesting and understandable, even though JOK looks like a great player to me. 

Not gonna lie, I am hoping we get Mills, though I would have preferred in the third round. Which teams are we competing with for the next QB selection? I kept hearing Chicago and NE were also high on Mills, but he has to be off their boards at this point. Would anyone feel like the pressure is off the QB position enough that you risk trying to wait to the third round to get him?

I got burned on Isaiah Simmons last year. So I see JOK and see a less talented Simmons and I am put off.

 

Keep in mind, it's not about THEM. I think Simmons is one of the absolute best defensive prospects I've ever seen. I STILL think that. I think JOK is well below that level, personally, but I see what everyone else does... Playmaker that can cover in space. 

 

But those guys are positionless players. I know the game is trending towards that being more of a thing, but those two are really positionless in the NFL. They are "hybrids". An in between for linebacker/safety/defensive end type. They are both a bit (read: alot) small for DE, a bit small for LB but with speed and instincts and playmaking ability to play anywhere. They can rush, cover, tackle, the whole 9. But it's tough for them to hold up at the POA with their size.

 

They are niche players. Role players. But PLAYMAKERS in those roles. 

 

It's an odd balance to have an actual STAR that isn't on the field for entire games. It's tough to balance as a coaching staff and it's tough to convince that STAR that they are merely a situational football player.

 

Having said that... JOK, despite my reservations on him in the first, is a guy that if he fell to us in the second I'd strongly consider and be happy with taking. 

[Warhead36]

I just don't think JOK is a great scheme fit for us. We basically already have Collins/Curl in that role.

[KDawg]

RE: People saying Fields fell for a reason.

 

Sure. So did Aaron Rodgers. So did Herbert (who was the third QB picked 6th last year... the 3rd QB was picked third last year so where would Herbert have gone?). So did Mahomes. So did Allen.

 

Teams make mistakes. Teams pass on guys. It's a reality. No one is saying Fields is or isn't a star necessarily. I think he's got the most potential out of any of the QBs in this draft. But he has a bust rate too simply because of his style. I think he's light years above Zach Wilson.

 

"We're going to the Super Bowl!" - Zach Wilson, forgetting he's a Jet.

 

I think we missed out on Fields. But that doesn't have to simultaneously taint how I feel about us getting Jamin. I'm thrilled with having Jam Man. 

[Tress Is The Way]

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

RE: People saying Fields fell for a reason.

 

Sure. So did Aaron Rodgers. So did Herbert (who was the third QB picked 6th last year... the 3rd QB was picked third last year so where would Herbert have gone?). So did Mahomes. So did Allen.

 

Teams make mistakes. Teams pass on guys. It's a reality. No one is saying Fields is or isn't a star necessarily. I think he's got the most potential out of any of the QBs in this draft. But he has a bust rate too simply because of his style. I think he's light years above Zach Wilson.

 

"We're going to the Super Bowl!" - Zach Wilson, forgetting he's a Jet.

 

I think we missed out on Fields. But that doesn't have to simultaneously taint how I feel about us getting Jamin. I'm thrilled with having Jam Man. 

He's a boom or bust prospect. What doesn't help his boom case is that 99.9% of OSU QBs becoming colossal busts. Glad we passed.

[KDawg]

Just now, ZarG3 said:

He's a boom or bust prospect. What doesn't help his boom case is that 99.9% of OSU QBs becoming colossal busts. Glad we passed.

I think basing his abilities on names like JT Barrett, Cardale Jones, Dwayne Haskins and Braxton Miller is a poor take analytically. Extremely poor. None of them, including Dwayne, were half the prospect Fields is/was. Not even in the realm. 
 

I have yet to see anyone say Fields as a prospect has many flaws other than “OSU!”

 

That, to me, is lazy.

 

I’m willing to talk about any real flaws you find in his game though. I’d love to hear them.

 

I think the biggest one I’ve heard is that he is an elbow thrower. Which... okay. I don’t see that as a major ding to his prospectus but respect for finding that... and I’m not sure it’s terribly true, either. 
 

I’m not glad we passed on him, since we’re doing this thing where we have to constantly reiterate our points.

[Commander Adama]

I saw this on YouTube for Jamin

 

[HigSkin]

 

[CommanderInTheRye]

24 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I wouldn’t mind moving up for Moehrig

 

 

HELL YES!

 

Man if we got Moehrig and IF he’s a day 1 playmaker in the back end, we have a shot of having a Bears ‘85, Ravens ‘01 type defense.

 

Then the lack of a true franchise qb becomes less of an impediment to a championship.

 

If I were Rivera I would be so ****ing tempted to go for it.

[UK Skins]

Has anything came out on why we didn't trade for Fields? I was waiting for "trade" to flash up during picks 7, 8 and 9 and was astonished when we didn't go for it. Then the Bears getting him for what seemed a really reasonable deal kind of rubbed it in more. We had the perfect storm going there in the way all the other picks fell for us and didn't take advantage of it.

 

[KDawg]

Just now, UK Skins said:

Has anything came out on why we didn't trade for Fields? I was waiting for "trade" to flash up during picks 7, 8 and 9 and was astonished when we didn't go for it. Then the Bears getting him for what seemed a really reasonable deal kind of rubbed it in more. We had the perfect storm going there in the way all the other picks fell for us and didn't take advantage of it.

 

My guess is simply cost and Rivera not wanting to bid themselves out of LB/Round 2 selections. Or next year's 1.

 

I'm curious if they are using this draft to round the roster and are considering a big trade for a guy like Rodgers. A lot to play out. 

 

Frustrated we didn't get Fields but there's a lot still at play here.

[Warhead36]

Just now, UK Skins said:

Has anything came out on why we didn't trade for Fields? I was waiting for "trade" to flash up during picks 7, 8 and 9 and was astonished when we didn't go for it. Then the Bears getting him for what seemed a really reasonable deal kind of rubbed it in more. We had the perfect storm going there in the way all the other picks fell for us and didn't take advantage of it.

 

My guess is we made calls to Carolina/Detroit/Denver at 7/8/9 but the asking price was too much. Probably something like 2 1s, 2 2s, etc. And the Giants weren't going to trade with us.

[Commander Adama]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I have yet to see anyone say Fields as a prospect has many flaws other than “OSU!”

 

But he is from OSU which I haven't seen a QB emerge from and become a Good NFL QB. 🤣

[Tress Is The Way]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

I think basing his abilities on names like JT Barrett, Cardale Jones, Dwayne Haskins and Braxton Miller is a poor take analytically. Extremely poor. None of them, including Dwayne, were half the prospect Fields is/was. Not even in the realm. 
 

I have yet to see anyone say Fields as a prospect has many flaws other than “OSU!”

 

That, to me, is lazy.

 

I’m willing to talk about any real flaws you find in his game though. I’d love to hear them.

 

I think the biggest one I’ve heard is that he is an elbow thrower. Which... okay. I don’t see that as a major ding to his prospectus but respect for finding that... and I’m not sure it’s terribly true, either. 
 

I’m not glad we passed on him, since we’re doing this thing where we have to constantly reiterate our points.

Historically OSU doesn't deliver good QB prospects. This is based out of the system that they run, and the talent they are surrounded by. That's not lazy analytics, that's just how OSU has always been.

 

If you really want me to deep dive into fields, after all the tape I've watched on him he is more like Dwayne and less like Watson. His release is slow, his footwork is choppy, beyond the 1st read his accuracy dramatically decreases, his long ball accuracy is average at best, and he is way below average when it comes to feeling pressure. Sure he has a cannon for an arm, legs to boot, and is said to be a good leader.. I feel like he'll be another mitchell tribusky.

 

Just my 2cents

[CommanderInTheRye]

3 minutes ago, UK Skins said:

Has anything came out on why we didn't trade for Fields? I was waiting for "trade" to flash up during picks 7, 8 and 9 and was astonished when we didn't go for it. Then the Bears getting him for what seemed a really reasonable deal kind of rubbed it in more. We had the perfect storm going there in the way all the other picks fell for us and didn't take advantage of it.

 

 

 

The cost was prohibitive for a player that is talented but has flaws and is not a lock for stardom.

[veteranskinsfan]

My thoughts have not changed even after sleeping on the pick.  Rivera hires all the veteran draft guys and then decides to not move up in the draft.  I did not want to give

away a lot of picks.  If you look at John Clayton's top 50 players in the draft Davis was ranked 33rd.  We took him at 19.   He would not have been my pick.  Also these

front office geniuses thought Cowboys would draft a cornerback and they did not plan on Cowboys moving up.  I believe Skins thought they would get Parsons with the 19 pick

because several mock drafts had predicted that would happen.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

@veteranskinsfan no chance they made draft day decisions based on where mock drafts had players going. 

[UK Skins]

1 minute ago, TrancesWithWolves said:

 

 

The cost was prohibitive for a player that is talented but has flaws and is not a lock for stardom.

Are you talking about what Chicago paid? I thought that was a bargain

[Tress Is The Way]

1 minute ago, veteranskinsfan said:

My thoughts have not changed even after sleeping on the pick.  Rivera hires all the veteran draft guys and then decides to not move up in the draft.  I did not want to give

away a lot of picks.  If you look at John Clayton's top 50 players in the draft Davis was ranked 33rd.  We took him at 19.   He would not have been my pick.  Also these

front office geniuses thought Cowboys would draft a cornerback and they did not plan on Cowboys moving up.  I believe Skins thought they would get Parsons with the 19 pick

because several mock drafts had predicted that would happen.

I'd rather have Jamin over Parsons a million times over. Parsons character is a huge red flag, and doesn't bode well with the culture RR is building here.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, ZarG3 said:

Historically OSU doesn't deliver good QB prospects. This is based out of the system that they run, and the talent they are surrounded by. That's not lazy analytics, that's just how OSU has always been.

 

If you really want me to deep dive into fields, after all the tape I've watched on him he is more like Dwayne and less like Watson. His release is slow, his footwork is choppy, beyond the 1st read his accuracy dramatically decreases, his long ball accuracy is average at best, and he is way below average when it comes to feeling pressure. Sure he has a cannon for an arm, legs to boot, and is said to be a good leader.. I feel like he'll be another mitchell tribusky.

 

Just my 2cents

 

Your scouting report sounded like Trevor Lawrence to me.

 

Almost to a tee. Which, by the way, I agree with at times for BOTH prospects.

 

I also see, with both, hard nosed workers who want to master their craft. Guys who want to play through injuries and push themselves and their teammates to be better. Great quarterbacks who are athletes and not the reverse. 

 

I don't see Trubisky in either of them, though. 

 

I don't agree with long ball accuracy for Fields. I do agree he needs to work on pocket presence. 

2 minutes ago, veteranskinsfan said:

My thoughts have not changed even after sleeping on the pick.  Rivera hires all the veteran draft guys and then decides to not move up in the draft.  I did not want to give

away a lot of picks.  If you look at John Clayton's top 50 players in the draft Davis was ranked 33rd.  We took him at 19.   He would not have been my pick.  Also these

front office geniuses thought Cowboys would draft a cornerback and they did not plan on Cowboys moving up.  I believe Skins thought they would get Parsons with the 19 pick

because several mock drafts had predicted that would happen.

 

Not taking Parsons was one of the best moves of the draft for us.

 

And for the record, I called Parsons to Dallas

[HigSkin]

 

[UK Skins]

Assuming we got the same draft coverage as you guys, who was the guy sitting on the right of the screen? He nailed so many of the picks, I was really impressed. From memory he just said "line-backer" for ours but I guess he got that one right too!

[FrFan]

 

[HigSkin]

10 minutes ago, UK Skins said:

Has anything came out on why we didn't trade for Fields? I was waiting for "trade" to flash up during picks 7, 8 and 9 and was astonished when we didn't go for it. Then the Bears getting him for what seemed a really reasonable deal kind of rubbed it in more. We had the perfect storm going there in the way all the other picks fell for us and didn't take advantage of it.

 

 

 

Only mention was this....

 

 

[CommanderInTheRye]

44 minutes ago, UK Skins said:

Are you talking about what Chicago paid? I thought that was a bargain

 

 

Not specifically. Just in the sense that that was their weighted evaluation of the cost in picks players vs the value of Justin Fields.

 

If another qb had been there who they valued more highly the price paid by Chicago might not have been an impediment to a WFT trade.

 

SPECULATION FOLLOWS: I think the biggest reason they stood pat was that they were not as enamored with Justin Fields as some of the draft day reports would have led you to believe. I think they may have prefered Trey Lance and bowed out when he went third.

 

I also think that all of those draft day rumors of the Saints breaking the bank to trade up were true but they also lost interest after the 49ers selected Lance.