2020 Roster Thread (Updated: 4/28/20)

[method man]

Keim has been clear that the staff sees Holcomb as an outside backer. With his size and lack of coverage ability, He probably profiles as a SLB. Pierre-Louis probably rotates at WILL w Davis. SDH rotates w Bostic at MLB. Bostic could probably kick out to SLB too. Anderson may play some SLB and some DE

 

Agreed this team needs one more backer, especially because Bostic feels temporary 

[KDawg]

We are a MIKE away or two. I disagree that Holcomb is an outside guy, but who am I to disagree with NFL coaches. Leaves us with our best fit at MIKE being Foster if healthy. KPL could play there, but if Foster starts at MIKE, I think he has to be SAM. WILL is Davis.
 

SDH is an outside guy... good coverage skills not an attacking downhill backer. 

 

JHC fits the MIKE profile decently. I’m just not sure how good he is. 
 

I am totally unsold on Bostic as MIKE1, wouldn’t mind him as MIKE2.

 

To make the defense tick, assuming Foster stays healthy for more than five minutes, Foster should be SAM. Ideally a rookie at MIKE, but could be KPL. Davis at WILL. Bostic MIKE2, Holcomb SAM2, SDH/JHC WILL2. 
 

Linebacker is kind of a cluster**** from the outside looking in.

[paloosa]

1 hour ago, ggarriso said:

 

 

I am not exactly sure what their plan is for this year, I really believe they might be trying to stash away cap money for 21 which would be a clear tank for trev plan.  They have a 3-13 roster, and by all accounts havent really improved it any, picking up a stockpile of career backups.  I like Riverboat Ron but I think this is where not having a real GM costs us, and big.

 

 

 

I agree they went 3-13 but with as many injuries we had due to a bad Training staff who knows what are recorded would have been. Also Jay Gruden wasn't exactly the best of Head Coaches and his staff wasn't exactly the cream of the crop. I still in the belief that we have a lot of underutilized talent due to injury, bad coaching, etc. Not having a GM is not hurting us anymore than what we had in Bruce Allen. From what I hear it is Smith and Rivera making the decisions and I hear it is better than Allen. But only time will tell.

 

[Est.1974]

@KDawg would you rather stick at #2 and take Young, leaving potential roster holes at LT, MLB, TE, WR...

 

or

 

the trade package you were offered for the #2 pick was basically going to enable you to select a top 5 draft prospect from each of the above groups (or effectively each position noted could be addressed by the time we’ve picked at #66)

[markmills67]

33 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

@KDawg would you rather stick at #2 and take Young, leaving potential roster holes at LT, MLB, TE, WR...

 

or

 

the trade package you were offered for the #2 pick was basically going to enable you to select a top 5 draft prospect from each of the above groups (or effectively each position noted could be addressed by the time we’ve picked at #66)

I would trade with the Dolphins but it has to be all 3 of there 1st round picks. 

 

HTTR 

[KDawg]

48 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

@KDawg would you rather stick at #2 and take Young, leaving potential roster holes at LT, MLB, TE, WR...

 

or

 

the trade package you were offered for the #2 pick was basically going to enable you to select a top 5 draft prospect from each of the above groups (or effectively each position noted could be addressed by the time we’ve picked at #66)

If I could get, without question: Simmons, Murray, Winfield, Diggs & a top 5 LT? 
 

It’s not even close. 
 

But that’s not a real world scenario. 
 

I’d do it for 2 firsts this year, a second and a 2021 first.

 

EDIT: Brief edit: there is a problem with a trade back scenario that nets you so much... you cannot afford to re-sign all of them at the same time.

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, markmills67 said:

I would trade with the Dolphins but it has to be all 3 of there 1st round picks. 

 

HTTR 

Don’t see that happening.

 

They might have to put that on the table for the #1 pick off the bengals to get Burrow

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

If I could get, without question: Simmons, Murray, Winfield, Diggs & a top 5 LT? 
 

It’s not even close. 
 

But that’s not a real world scenario. 
 

I’d do it for 2 firsts this year, a second and a 2021 first.

 

EDIT: Brief edit: there is a problem with a trade back scenario that nets you so much... you cannot afford to re-sign all of them at the same time.

I think I’d take 2 firsts and a second at this stage. Could do a lot with 5,18,56 or 9,20,42. 
 

Highly unlikely as you stated though.

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Don’t see that happening.

 

They might have to put that on the table for the #1 pick off the bengals to get Burrow

I think I’d take 2 firsts and a second at this stage. Could do a lot with 5,18,56 or 9,20,42. 
 

Highly unlikely as you stated though.

I’d want ammo for next year’s draft. Penei and Lawrence (or Fields) are good ammo.

[Est.1974]

30 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I’d want ammo for next year’s draft. Penei and Lawrence (or Fields) are good ammo.

yeah. I think Miami might feel the same, unless there is substance to there interest in going after Burrow at #1. I could seem them going all in for that. They might hedge their bets more if Tua is the choice.

[EasternNCbywayofNOVA]

On 3/30/2020 at 10:48 AM, KDawg said:

To make the defense tick, assuming Foster stays healthy for more than five minutes, Foster should be SAM. Ideally a rookie at MIKE, but could be KPL. Davis at WILL. Bostic MIKE2, Holcomb SAM2, SDH/JHC WILL2. 

 

Linebacker is kind of a cluster**** from the outside looking in.

I scratch my head every time you post about Foster at MLB and now SAM for two reasons. In the NFL he is a prototypical WLB IMO he is a explosive athlete that is at his best running full speed taking angles and knocking peoples heads off. I also think coming off injury you don’t want him navigating all the trash in the middle or cut blocks coming on the strong side. 
I think your perspective comes from what kind of scheme you envision though. It sounds like you envision a downhill Jerimiah Trotter shoot the gap MLB and I’m thinking sideline to sideline, playing in a phone booth while playing more of a mental game and exploding forward backwards and sideways decisively while being able to play in coverage. I envision a scheme with a  Luke Kuechly like player at MLB. 
 

This is a really good thread and sparks good football discussion 👍 Thank you for it! 

 

 

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, EasternNCbywayofNOVA said:

I scratch my head every time you post about Foster at MLB and now SAM for two reasons. In the NFL he is a prototypical WLB IMO he is a explosive athlete that is at his best running full speed taking angles and knocking peoples heads off. I also think coming off injury you don’t want him navigating all the trash in the middle or cut blocks coming on the strong side. 
I think your perspective comes from what kind of scheme you envision though. It sounds like you envision a downhill Jerimiah Trotter shoot the gap MLB and I’m thinking sideline to sideline, playing in a phone booth while playing more of a mental game and exploding forward backwards and sideways decisively while being able to play in coverage. I envision a scheme with a  Luke Kuechly like player at MLB. 
 

This is a really good thread and sparks good football discussion 👍 Thank you for it! 

 

 

 

Foster can play all three spots. He's a natural at all of them. I'm not sure Davis fits the SAM spot in this D, but could. But sure, put Foster at WILL. I'm okay with that. Coming off the achilles, though, you don't want him covering in space either. 

 

Who's the MIKE?

 

It's a really odd grouping of guys we have. And I think they're looking at a majority of NICKEL alignments vs. the base 4-3 and that's why we haven't seen more of an emphasis. With Foster/Davis on the interior the team is in okay shape. Needing to get three guys out there is a problem. 

 

Foster can play like Kuech at the MIKE. Foster can play like Trotter at the MIKE. 

 

But, I'm not really counting on Foster for anything other than a game or two. And that's one of my biggest issues. But while healthy you can put him anywhere.

 

My biggest point I'm trying to drive home here is that we are a starting backer short in the base 4-3, and likely 2 with Foster's injury history. And maybe 3 with Davis' age. 

[Est.1974]

If we end up with a starting OL containing Pierschbacher, Schweitzer and Vujnovich can we all agree to just revert to simply calling them by their forenames.

 

#verydifficulttospell

 

 

 

[KDawg]

9 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

If we end up with a starting OL containing Pierschbacher, Schweitzer and Vujnovich can we all agree to just revert to simply calling them by their forenames.

 

#verydifficulttospell

 

 

 

If that is our starting offensive line I may just watch DC Defender highlights all season long.

[Burgundy Yoda]

Our LB situation is such a mystery to me. It seems like that's going to be the position group that sees the heaviest competition in training camp. If we get Chase Young this team is literally 8 deep along the line and will easily be one of the deepest in the league. Ryan Anderson is a fantastic player, he's probably one of our most underappreciated players on the team, I have a good feeling about him this year. He'll be looked at as our Brandon Graham after this season imo. 

[Est.1974]

2 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Our LB situation is such a mystery to me.

Same here. You have to hope/assume RR and JDR have a strategy given their LB history.

[skinny21]

So, I’ve been thinking of Holcomb as a MLB, but while I think his sideline to sideline speed is a boon here, I’m not comfortable with him as the guy taking on blockers to free up the WiLL.  I mean, he can stick to a blocker, but that’s not what we’re really talking about...

Looking back on Zierlein’s scouting report:

 

Weaknesses

• Play lacks decisiveness and aggression
• Too willing to sit on second level and wait out play development
• Low tackle-for-loss percentage during his career
• Gets wired to blockers when runs come downhill at him
• Must improve his punch and separation for take-ons
• Has better coverage athleticism than instincts
• Loses balance at the break points in man coverage
• Will need to play with greater urgency

 

Hits a lot of the things we’ve been talking about - decisiveness, getting off blocks and coverage issues.  
 

Shaun Dion-Hamilton’s report is interesting in the context of his role in the new D:

 

Strengths

• Good lower body thickness
• Plays the game with demeanor and toughness of a bigger linebacker
• Always finding his run fits
• Very smart and called the "brains behind the operation" on the field
• Won't give up his gap control willingly
• Plays square and will stick a strong shoulder into blocks to squeeze his gap
• Technically sound
• Meets climbing blockers with a sunken anchor and a stiff punch
• Nice, easy hips allow for smooth drops into coverage
• Quick to recognize and react to play-action and screens
• Able to weave around blockers without losing sight of the ball

Weaknesses

• Shorter than desired
• When he gets beaten, it is often due to size and length limitations
• Will take some time to peel off of a block once he's engaged
• Doesn't have enough power and mass to hold up to head-on blocks consistently
• Tight-stepper with limited range as tackler
• Looked slower this year
• Had to make diving tackle attempts too often
• Durability is becoming a major concern after season-ending ACL in 2016 and season-ending knee fracture in 2017

 

The good news for both of these guys is that they can get better (and probably have) with hand usage to get off blocks, as well as adding some mass.  

[KDawg]

Having watched him for way too long, he got stuck on blocks in large part due to his hesitation. He hasn’t shown a lack of or an ability to block destruct. 
 

He’d need to show he can do that, obviously. 

[HTTRDynasty]

Reuben Foster:

 

EDIT: And this was posted back in October. 

[Stoox]

On 4/2/2020 at 9:28 AM, KDawg said:

It's a really odd grouping of guys we have. And I think they're looking at a majority of NICKEL alignments vs. the base 4-3 and that's why we haven't seen more of an emphasis. With Foster/Davis on the interior the team is in okay shape. Needing to get three guys out there is a problem. 

 

 

Do we know who on the team communicated that the staff sees Holcomb as an outside backer, and likely the SAM? I agree he would work best in the middle, given the current options on the table. Putting him at SAM would mean both Holcomb and Davis are on the strong side - who would start? Davis is no longer capable at WILL.

 

Their best LB lineup IMO would consist of Foster (WILL) - Holcomb (MIKE) - Davis (SAM), assuming health.

 

Can Ryan Anderson play SAM on 1st and 2nd downs? Or is he a DE? Or trade bait?

 

So many questions. The good news is, the team is being led by 2 ex-linebackers with 20 years experience as players, and great resumes as DCs - you would think they have a feasible plan for slotting the right players in the right places, that they believe will work.

 

[KDawg]

I think Davis plays WILL. But yes, that scares me as well. He’s older and doesn’t play with the same speed.

[skinny21]

6 hours ago, KDawg said:

I think Davis plays WILL. But yes, that scares me as well. He’s older and doesn’t play with the same speed.

The more I think about it, I could see SDH competing with Holcomb and JHC at WILL.  Holcomb doesn’t have the coverage chops, but we’re likely in nickel a bunch anyway. He can be protected to an extent with various coverages.  
 

Davis makes sense as the base D SLB, though I wouldn’t rule out any of our DEs taking snaps there.  
 

Bostic and KPL compete at MLB.  
 

Foster at either Will or Mike if healthy.  
 

Nickel maybe Foster (if healthy) and SDH or KPL (possibly JHC).  

[KillBill26]

@KDawg, I wish you the best of luck slotting these new draft picks into the depth chart, as nobody really knows what position half of these guys are going to play.  On top of the LB debates we have been having.  It will be fun watching the offensive and defensive units take shape whenever people can actually be near each other again.  

[KDawg]

6 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

@KDawg, I wish you the best of luck slotting these new draft picks into the depth chart, as nobody really knows what position half of these guys are going to play.  On top of the LB debates we have been having.  It will be fun watching the offensive and defensive units take shape whenever people can actually be near each other again.  

It’s my project for the morning. I’ll probably just start throwing **** at the wall 5 mins in.

[KillBill26]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

It’s my project for the morning. I’ll probably just start throwing **** at the wall 5 mins in.

With all the questions on roles our defenders will play, you should just break them up into 3 groups: usually near the line of scrimmage, sometimes near the line of scrimmage, usually not near the line of scrimmage.

[KDawg]

Roster is up to date including draft and UDFA signings of Moss, Montez and Wright.