OC - Scott Turner incoming

[RWJ]

11 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

No, I'm pretty sure he's holding out for the Brown's OC position if McDaniels is hired there

My thinking too or whatever HC job McDaniels gets even though he's under contract with the Skins.  Our best scenario would be Shurmur if RR can convince him to be our OC and Scott Turner as our QB coach in waiting.

[SoCalSkins]

23 minutes ago, RWJ said:

My thinking too or whatever HC job McDaniels gets even though he's under contract with the Skins.  Our best scenario would be Shurmur if RR can convince him to be our OC and Scott Turner as our QB coach in waiting.

Shurmur is an Andy Reid guy. If by some miracle Bienemy gets a job Shurmur is going to the Chiefs. 

[RWJ]

32 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

Shurmur is an Andy Reid guy. If by some miracle Bienemy gets a job Shurmur is going to the Chiefs. 

Good point.  Hoping for Shurmur but you bring up a very good point.  RR can try.  Leaves us limited if RR is going with who he's had before.  Mike Shula or Norv's son Scott.  Scott is still a work in progress but I'd go with him if KOC wants to pair up with McDaniels.  We all know McDaniels is the hottest name out there right now.  Seem like KOC is just waiting and Skins know it. 

[RemoveSnyder]

58 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

No, I'm pretty sure he's holding out for the Brown's OC position if McDaniels is hired there

 

But, holding out would imply that he's noncommittal to this org. Right, "holding out" for something else.

Holding out implies one has the power to decide the situation. Only person with power in the org, right now, is Ron.

 

So ... if Connell is waiting for an OC position, and that OC position is supposed to be coming from a different org, stands to reason that the OC position here is ... 

 

As per Browns, everything I'vs seen lines McCarthy up as their next HC. The interviews with dallas and ny have just been to leverage his price higher.

[RWJ]

3 minutes ago, Monk4thaHALL said:

 

But, holding out would imply that he's noncommittal to this org. Right, "holding out" for something else.

Holding out implies one has the power to decide the situation. Only person with power in the org, right now, is Ron.

 

So ... if Connell is waiting for an OC position, and that OC position is supposed to be coming from a different org, stands to reason that the OC position here is ... 

 

As per Browns, everything I'vs seen lines McCarthy up as their next HC. The interviews with dallas and ny have just been to leverage his price higher.

The Giants,  Cowboys and Panthers are all looking for HC and McDaniels will get one of them and who's to say that KOC and McDaniels haven't already talked about it.

Edited January 6, 2020 by RWJ

[stoshuaj]

11 hours ago, SoCalSkins said:

The other poster posted his stats for his best 5 games. They were lower than the season average. No tangible metrics make KOC look good. That’s why we have the 2nd overall pick . It was a crappy year all around. He has no other experience than that. It’s not difficult guys. Ron likes proven history and experience listen to his words. Look at his hires. We will see how this plays out in the next few days regardless.

And if KOC is the OC, I am rooting for him. I honestly want us to win and nothing else. We all get into it in these threads, but whoever is here after all this is a die hard. It’s ok to have different opinions.

 

 

holy crap, we agree (not that it matters in the big scheme of things)

 

Skins were 3 and ****ing 13 this year yet around here, all the players are All-Pro w the right coaches but the coaches need to stay.....(admittedly, hyperbole for effect)

 

All heads need to be on the chopping block if need be

 

3 and 13, say it out loud.....Skins stink 

[RemoveSnyder]

21 hours ago, Jericho said:

Any evidence of who Carolina might be blocking (if anyone)?

 

There's no mention of timeline or sequence of events. It's all very possible that the blocking had occurred for a period of time.

Specific names are hard to get verified.

 

they've let most of their guys walk

 

Or they had expiring/expired contracts and didn't need to gain permission. 

 

unless we're talking about quality control coaches or lower level assistants, it seems most people are fair game.

 

There's really no reason to block the water boy or the quality control guys, like Vincent Rivera, Ron's nephew. Those low level assistants are not of the same wealth of knowledge, or experience, or clout that a high level coach would have. Alongside Fewell, the most valuable and seasoned coach they have would be Norv. 

[Jericho]

1 hour ago, SoCalSkins said:

Shurmur is an Andy Reid guy. If by some miracle Bienemy gets a job Shurmur is going to the Chiefs. 

 

This is true, though since Reid calls his own plays, it doesn't seem like the greatest job to have. I would tend to think an offensive coordinator would want some autonomy. And while Shurmur has worked with Reid, he was never an OC for Reid. But then again, Eric Bieniemy is getting head coaching looks and I'm not sure anyone really knows what he contributes. So it could work out? Or maybe Shurmur really likes Reid or is looking for a cushy job working with Reid or Mahomes or really doesn't care about seeking another head coaching spot (since he's failed twice before, he's probably not likely to get a third shot). So it's at least plausible that Shurmur is Option A and the wait is seeing what Shurmur wants to do. And KOC could be option B. Or it could be all made up speculation. I guess we'll find out soon.

[Jericho]

1 hour ago, RWJ said:

The Giants,  Cowboys and Panthers are all looking for HC and McDaniels will get one of them and who's to say that KOC and McDaniels haven't already talked about it.

 

It might happen...or it might not. I'm actually surprised McDaniels is in as much demands as it seems he is. He wasn't that great in Denver and really seemed to burn bridges the way he handled the Indi job. And from McDaniels stand point, I'd wonder how much he'd like to work in New York or for Jerry Jones or in the mess Cleveland has. The Browns are arguably the one team with a worse owner than the Redskins and with a terrible history/culture to match the Skins. The Cowboys mean working with Jerry, which limits control that McDaniels may be seeking. And the Giants are in a media microscope with rumblings their infrastructure is pretty old school. Not sure McDaniels would find what he wants there. Which would leave Carolina, but they don't have a QB if they continue to run Newton out of town. Maybe the Browns would be the best option for him after all?

 

Then again, what if McCarthy and Rhule get jobs? That leaves two openings and plenty of candidates.

[SoCalSkins]

16 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

This is true, though since Reid calls his own plays, it doesn't seem like the greatest job to have. I would tend to think an offensive coordinator would want some autonomy. And while Shurmur has worked with Reid, he was never an OC for Reid. But then again, Eric Bieniemy is getting head coaching looks and I'm not sure anyone really knows what he contributes. So it could work out? Or maybe Shurmur really likes Reid or is looking for a cushy job working with Reid or Mahomes or really doesn't care about seeking another head coaching spot (since he's failed twice before, he's probably not likely to get a third shot). So it's at least plausible that Shurmur is Option A and the wait is seeing what Shurmur wants to do. And KOC could be option B. Or it could be all made up speculation. I guess we'll find out soon.

Pederson, Nagy and if he gets a job Bienemy. 3 head coaching jobs in 4 years. Being Andy’s OC is the quickest path to a job. 
 

Don’t get me wrong. I want Shurmur but I’m just pointing out the attractiveness of the KC job.

 

 

Edited January 6, 2020 by SoCalSkins

[RWJ]

20 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

It might happen...or it might not. I'm actually surprised McDaniels is in as much demands as it seems he is. He wasn't that great in Denver and really seemed to burn bridges the way he handled the Indi job. And from McDaniels stand point, I'd wonder how much he'd like to work in New York or for Jerry Jones or in the mess Cleveland has. The Browns are arguably the one team with a worse owner than the Redskins and with a terrible history/culture to match the Skins. The Cowboys mean working with Jerry, which limits control that McDaniels may be seeking. And the Giants are in a media microscope with rumblings their infrastructure is pretty old school. Not sure McDaniels would find what he wants there. Which would leave Carolina, but they don't have a QB if they continue to run Newton out of town. Maybe the Browns would be the best option for him after all?

 

Then again, what if McCarthy and Rhule get jobs? That leaves two openings and plenty of candidates.

A lot of possibilities and all we can do is speculate and wait.    Good points though.

[HigSkin]

Craig Hoffman on 106.7 Junkies this morning said he's pretty sure KOC is #1 OC, Pat Shurmur who that have interviewed is #2 and Scott Turner #3.  

[CommanderInTheRye]

18 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

Craig Hoffman on 106.7 Junkies this morning said he's pretty sure KOC is #1 OC, Pat Shurmur who that have interviewed is #2 and Scott Turner #3.  

 

If true, this would be in line with the theory that any delay is more likely the result of KOC considering other opportunities before committing to the Skins rather than any reluctance from RR to hire KOC. That’s ok. KOC owes us nothing he needs to make the best decision for his career path.

 

I’m cool with either KOC or Shurmur. Turner I like as a possible QB coach.
 

Hopefully, we get a decision this week so that we can have our HC, DC and OC in place with operating instructions prior to the Senior Bowl which would conceivably put us in position to be in consideration to coach the game.

[skinzplay]

50 minutes ago, SumTingWong said:

 

If true, this would be in line with the theory that any delay is more likely the result of KOC considering other opportunities before committing to the Skins rather than any reluctance from RR to hire KOC. That’s ok. KOC owes us nothing he needs to make the best decision for his career path.

 

I’m cool with either KOC or Shurmur. Turner I like as a possible QB coach.
 

Hopefully, we get a decision this week so that we can have our HC, DC and OC in place with operating instructions prior to the Senior Bowl which would conceivably put us in position to be in consideration to coach the game.

 

Zac Taylor and Matt Patricia are coaching the Senior Bowl with their respective staffs, both of which are incredibly weak. A lot of staff interviews go on down at that Senior Bowl, so hopefully Ike can catch on with someone's staff (if he hasn't already drawn some interest, which I would imagine he has).

 

I think Scott Turner is going to be good.

[CommanderInTheRye]

1 hour ago, skinzplay said:

 

Zac Taylor and Matt Patricia are coaching the Senior Bowl with their respective staffs, both of which are incredibly weak. A lot of staff interviews go on down at that Senior Bowl, so hopefully Ike can catch on with someone's staff (if he hasn't already drawn some interest, which I would imagine he has).

 

I think Scott Turner is going to be good.

 

 Didn’t know they had already made a decision. Thanks for the clarification.

 

Senior Bowl is definitely network central for out of work coaches. Hilliard did a great job this year with our triumvirate of rookie wideouts but after years of decision making from the upper floor of Redskins park it’s comforting to see decisions clearly made by an empowered and decisive head coach.

[RemoveSnyder]

36 minutes ago, RWJ said:

who's to say that KOC and McDaniels haven't already talked about it.

 

Who's to say that Connell hasn't already talked to Ron about the mcdaniels thing too?

Who's to say that Ron hasn't already told Connell he will explore other options for OC, which he has. That if Ron actually landed his #1, that Connell would not be his OC.

 

I think Connell is simply a contingency plan for Ron, a fall back position in case all his other options fall apart, dry up.

 

And as a common professional courtesy to Connell, Ron decided not to release him from his contract outright, to wait and see if the OC gig materialized for him with McD, see if he does in fact get the sweatheart deal from his friend mcdaniels. 

 

Otherwise to release Connell outright and then suddenly the mcdaniels thing doesn't come through, well then Connell just went from having a contract to being unemployed.

 

That actually works for both men. There's no reason for Ron to jettison Connell right now and make the OC opening have any further scrutiny/pressure. Ron easily could have said to connell that any interest he drew for OC outside the org they would not block, that he would be free to explore.

 

But until then both parties are mutually beneficial to each other. 

 

So, the idea that Ron has already offered the OC position for this team to Connell and Connell is just like: "yeah, ok Ron, let me get back to you after I hear from my dude mcdaniels on where I'm supposed to be going, or maybe I will decide to go work for Belichick, call you later." 

 

No. 

[SoCalSkins]

3 hours ago, HigSkin said:

Craig Hoffman on 106.7 Junkies this morning said he's pretty sure KOC is #1 OC, Pat Shurmur who that have interviewed is #2 and Scott Turner #3.  

Was that based on the fake stats you posted?

[RWJ]

16 minutes ago, Monk4thaHALL said:

 

Who's to say that Connell hasn't already talked to Ron about the mcdaniels thing too?

Who's to say that Ron hasn't already told Connell he will explore other options for OC, which he has. That if Ron actually landed his #1, that Connell would not be his OC.

 

I think Connell is simply a contingency plan for Ron, a fall back position in case all his other options fall apart, dry up.

 

And as a common professional courtesy to Connell, Ron decided not to release him from his contract outright, to wait and see if the OC gig materialized for him with McD, see if he does in fact get the sweatheart deal from his friend mcdaniels. 

 

Otherwise to release Connell outright and then suddenly the mcdaniels thing doesn't come through, well then Connell just went from having a contract to being unemployed.

 

That actually works for both men. There's no reason for Ron to jettison Connell right now and make the OC opening have any further scrutiny/pressure. Ron easily could have said to connell that any interest he drew for OC outside the org they would not block, that he would be free to explore.

 

But until then both parties are mutually beneficial to each other. 

 

So, the idea that Ron has already offered the OC position for this team to Connell and Connell is just like: "yeah, ok Ron, let me get back to you after I hear from my dude mcdaniels on where I'm supposed to be going, or maybe I will decide to go work for Belichick, call you later." 

 

No. 

Easy, Big Boy.  We all are speculating, right?  You give some valid points and I stated mine.  It's all good.  

[skinny21]

I have trouble believing O’Connell is Rivera’s number 1 choice, but he’s told Rivera he wants to wait to see what other options come available.  
 

With that said, I think O’Connell has more going for him than just following in KS and McVay’s footsteps.  He’s worked under/with a variety of offensive minds, has helped develop a young qb that many either had written off or felt would need a lot of time to develop.  He seemed innovative in his play calling.  Haskins and Moses both giving him props, along with the apparent respect he’s gained from around the league is a nice feather in the cap.  He comes across as a bright guy with a good personality.  An offseason to analyze his play calling, a better understanding of our personnel, and continued development of our youth could be a big help to O’Connell.  

 

None of the above means KOC is a good OC obviously.  

On the negative side of the ledger, apart from two games against really struggling defenses, the offense was not very good.  The few games the run game worked - how much of that was Callahan committing so strongly to the run?  While we should see some improvement from Haskins, I’m not sure how much chance we’ll have to improve the personnel on that side of the ball.  Optimistically, we get Williams back, re-sign Scherff and maybe Flowers, Guice and Love are playing, we add a good TE and our young receivers continue to step up.  On the flip side, our oline could be a mess, our young backs could be unavailable, and Haskins could struggle with consistent pressure.  
 

Honestly, my biggest concern is how the offense performed/finished out against the Cowboys.  Granted, the team was without Scherff, McLaurin and Haskins (along with Guice, but he didn’t see the field much anyway).  However, the Cowboys got a ton of pressure on Keenum and our run game wasn’t very productive.  I’m not sure Haskins would have done any better than Keenum in that situation.  I respect that Keenum started calling screens, end arounds and roll outs to try to slow the rush, but very little of it worked.  

Honestly, my bigger concern is that Dallas was without two (or more?) of its best defenders, so how are we going to handle this D next year?  But I digress.  
Anyway, there are some things I like about O’Connell, and I’ll be very interested to see how he does if he gets the job, but I have my reservations.  Many of those are about personnel and how KOC’s offense will mesh with what Rivera wants to do, but KOC also hasn’t proven himself.  I’m very curious to see how much the offense would change under him given he had to run Gruden’s offense (albeit with some tweaks).  
I like the continuity O’Connell brings, particularly with regard to Haskins, but I’ve said all along that next year is probably a ‘learning year’ due to a new set of coaches and a new scheme on D.  Because of that, I don’t at all mind moving on to a new OC and the idea that Haskins might lose a little from the lack of continuity.  
 

I think it will be a fun ride regardless.  

[RemoveSnyder]

3 hours ago, HigSkin said:

Craig Hoffman on 106.7 Junkies this morning said he's pretty sure KOC is #1 OC, Pat Shurmur who that have interviewed is #2 and Scott Turner #3.  

 

See this, I don't buy. 

If Connell were his #1 choice then he'd be hired right now. That's what it means to be #1. 

If your #1 is in house and you have no airs of doing better, then why wait? Why interview others like Shurmur after interviewing Connell?

 

Also the idea that Connell is somehow preferable to a candidate like Shurmur, who Ron worked with and who has extensive coordinator and HC experience, comparing their respective resumes side by side, is frankly silly.

 

2 hours ago, SumTingWong said:

If true, this would be in line with the theory that any delay is more likely the result of KOC considering other opportunities before committing to the Skins rather than any reluctance from RR to hire KOC. 

 

O'Connell is in no position to dictate terms to Ron Rivera.

 

Considering options? The only upgrade over OC is HC. Are you seriously suggesting that Connell is getting head coaching interest?

That would be the only reason to "hold out."

 

I mean just break it down to the simplest elements.

The only position that been spoken about in relation to Connell is OC, that's it.  

 

So with that in mind, what you're saying is that Connell is not accepting the OC position here from Ron in order to wait and see if the OC position on another team he doesn't know yet might materialize with his buddy mcdaniels. 

 

It would still just be the OC position. Again, Connell is in no position to tell Ron to hold on.

 

If anything, holding out means that Connell desperately wants to be hired by mcdaniels as an OC because he's no longer scheduled to be an OC here and would have to accept at best a demotion to stay on Ron's staff. 

 

3 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Easy, Big Boy. 

 

 

Likewise Tiger. 😉

[RWJ]

2 minutes ago, Monk4thaHALL said:

 

See this, I don't buy. 

If Connell were his #1 choice then he'd be hired right now. That's what it means to be #1. 

If your #1 is in house and you have no airs of doing better, then why wait? Why interview others like Shurmur after interviewing Connell?

 

Also the idea that Connell is somehow preferable to a candidate like Shurmur, who Ron worked with and who has extensive coordinator and HC experience, comparing their respective resumes side by side, is frankly silly.

 

 

O'Connell is in no position to dictate terms to Ron Rivera.

 

Considering options? The only upgrade over OC is HC. Are you seriously suggesting that Connell is getting head coaching interest?

That would be the only reason to "hold out."

 

I mean just break it down to the simplest elements.

The only position that been spoken about in relation to Connell is OC, that's it.  

 

So with that in mind, what you're saying is that Connell is not accepting the OC position here from Ron in order to wait and see if the OC position on another team he doesn't know yet might materialize with his buddy mcdaniels. 

 

It would still just be the OC position. Again, Connell is in no position to tell Ron to hold on.

 

If anything, holding out means that Connell desperately wants to be hired by mcdaniels as an OC because he's no longer scheduled to be an OC here and would have to accept at best a demotion to stay on Ron's staff. 

 

 

 

Likewise Tiger. 😉

I wasn't the one who got hyped up, my friend you were.  All is well with me.  Good day.

[skinny21]

@Monk4thaHALL I’m with you on that.  If KOC is Ron’s number one, even if it’s just number 1 that’s available, I don’t see KOC saying, “well, let me see if something better comes up and I’ll get back to you”.  Bird in the hand and all.  
With that said, the fact we haven’t heard O’Connell is out (and Hoffman reporting KOC as #1), I have to think he’s very much in the running.  
 

I’d guess Turner is either the backup to KOC or in the mix for qb coach.  Shurmur I could more readily see telling Ron,”I’m interested, but I want to see how other things play out”.

 

The difference between the 2 (Shurmur and KOC), is I highly doubt Rob was courting KOC (for various reasons), and Shurmur still has the possibility of a HC job (however doubtful).  Shurmur has the clout KOC doesn’t.  

Edited January 6, 2020 by skinny21

[RemoveSnyder]

3 minutes ago, RWJ said:

I wasn't the one who got hyped up, my friend you were.  All is well with me.  Good day.

 

Read my posts like you're siping on a mint julep. Don't project tone onto my posts. I'm as calm as can be and I'm going through logic exercises. 

Don't know where you're getting "hyped."

[Koolblue13]

8 minutes ago, Monk4thaHALL said:

 

Read my posts like you're siping on a mint julep. Don't project tone onto my posts. I'm as calm as can be and I'm going through logic exercises. 

Don't know where you're getting "hyped."

That crazy dog in your avatar doesn't look very calm. hhmmm

[RemoveSnyder]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

That crazy dog in your avatar doesn't look very calm. hhmmm

 

You know the source right? That dog isn't crazy, it's shocked to the point that the mainframe has to reboot.