Welcome to the Redskins Chase Young DE Ohio State

[Darrell Green Fan]

On 11/9/2023 at 1:18 PM, IrepDC said:

I suffered through a lot more than this. Like you and others, I have endured the past 30 years of chaos. My fanhood has been declining for years and several times I've taken a break from watching the team all together. It is like living in another world watching other teams and how they go about doing things. I know Chase got push back for comments about San Fran bring different, but deep down, even the most die hard fan knows he's telling the truth. Washington just has to slander and bad mouth players on the way out to feel better about themselves. I have a few players on the team I'll always root for, but to me, Harris is showing signs that he will continue the chaos so I'm jumping ship. Still my hometown team, but there's better football out there to follow. 

I never insulted you. You are the one who attempted making the conversation personal, and you even admitted and apologized. I told the uncomfortable truth about the TEAM, but I never said anything personal. Weird twist you're trying to do, but I've kept it football. Such as Toohill and Smith-Williams generating ZERO pressure last week. Remember I told you that you'll see what soft edges look like now? This is just the beginning, and fans will be clamoring for a big money FA or high draft pick edge rusher sooner than you think.

Chase Young played 9 games for the Niners.  He recorded 10 tackles, 2 1/2 sacks and as we saw above continued his pattern of quitting on plays.   Had they retained him this is the production we would've gotten out of him in a lost season. 

 

Then they would either lose him for nothing (no guarantee of a comp pick as they will be active in free agency) or overpay for a pass rusher who can't get to the QB and managed basically 1 tackle a game on a DL that gave him plenty of opportunities given their talent.

 

Edited January 11 by Darrell Green Fan

[Warhead36]

22 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

Chase Young played 9 games for the Niners.  He recorded 10 tackles, 2 1/2 sacks and as we saw above continued his pattern of quitting on plays.   Had they retained him this is the production we would've gotten out of him in a lost season. 

 

Then they would either lose him for nothing (no guarantee of a comp pick as they will be active in free sgency) or overpay for a pass rusher who can't get to the QB and managed basically 1 tackle a game on a DL that gave him plenty of opportunities given their talent which slide protection away from him.

 

Trading Chase Young was clearly the right decision

 

Yeah absolutely. He was mostly a non factor on the 9ers. People talk about how the 9ers sacks jumped up after he joined but that was mostly because they started to get healthy around that time as well as regression/progression to the mean(no way a team that talented was gonna continue to suffer in terms of pass rush).

 

Just sucks because we nearly got a 2nd for him from the Ravens but his knee scared them off.

[IrepDC]

On 1/9/2024 at 6:13 PM, Darrell Green Fan said:

Chase Young played 9 games for the Niners.  He recorded 10 tackles, 2 1/2 sacks and as we saw above continued his pattern of quitting on plays.   Had they retained him this is the production we would've gotten out of him in a lost season. 

 

Then they would either lose him for nothing (no guarantee of a comp pick as they will be active in free agency) or overpay for a pass rusher who can't get to the QB and managed basically 1 tackle a game on a DL that gave him plenty of opportunities given their talent.

 

You're proving the point of my post. Washington fans are lost. You stat watched another players team while your edges were LITERALLY the easiest attack point in the league. Chase Young STILL would be the best DE on your roster. There is a reason you know every stat he had, but zero of Toohill, etc etc stats, because they were irrelevant. You bumped this thread because YOU know you need 2 DEs. Chase Young is happy playing in the playoffs like the Packers.  I told you the Packers were much ahead in their rebuild before it was popular and known like it is now. I told you the Commanders now have 2 huge and exploitable weak points on the defense, in addition to the weaknesses they already had on the 2nd and 3rd levels. Nothing I've said was wrong. Why are you tagging me in this?

[Darrell Green Fan]

2 hours ago, IrepDC said:

You're proving the point of my post. Washington fans are lost. You stat watched another players team while your edges were LITERALLY the easiest attack point in the league. Chase Young STILL would be the best DE on your roster. There is a reason you know every stat he had, but zero of Toohill, etc etc stats, because they were irrelevant. You bumped this thread because YOU know you need 2 DEs. Chase Young is happy playing in the playoffs like the Packers.  I told you the Packers were much ahead in their rebuild before it was popular and known like it is now. I told you the Commanders now have 2 huge and exploitable weak points on the defense, in addition to the weaknesses they already had on the 2nd and 3rd levels. Nothing I've said was wrong. Why are you tagging me in this?

I tagged you because we had a long debate about this.

 

So you think they should have paid a big contract to an edge rusher who had 7 1/ 2 sacks and 25 tackles last year and has averaged 4 sacks a season or simply allow him to most likely walk with no compensation.  If they felt he would be as valuable as you believe he is a free agent and they can get him back and still retain the pick they received.

 

Sorry keeping him just does not make any sense.  

Edited January 11 by Darrell Green Fan

[IrepDC]

19 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I tagged you because we had a long debate about this.

 

So you think they should have paid a big contract to an edge rusher who had 7 1/ 2 sacks and 25 tackles last year and has averaged 4 sacks a season or simply allow him to most likely walk with no compensation.  If they felt he would be as valuable as you believe he is a free agent and they can get him back and still retain the pick they received.

 

Sorry keeping him just does not make any sense.  

You just had one of the worst defensive seasons in the history of the NFL. Look it up. Commanders fans are the only fans in the league who think every players new contract will break the market. I can't debate with you when you have that misconception. That's not how the rest of the NFL works. Washington has to overpay because everything about this team is bottom tier. I advocated keeping both Sweat and Chase because you're about to spend that money,  or draft capital, on those positions anyway. A bad team creating holes on their best unit. You now have more problems, because teams were not carving up Young on your edge, the way they carved every DE after the trade. You seem to only understand stats, but your Edges were getting WORKED OVER after Young and Sweat left. Your ONE team strength is now neutered. But you saved salary cap? Team has a LOT to learn about how real NFL teams are built.

[IrepDC]

And I already made the concession, that IF you trade the DEs, you get better compensation. You get at minimum 2 picks for each player. Getting 2 picks for 2 of your best players is laughable. Packers would've got 5 picks minimum for Sweat and Young. Commanders are a farm team.

[ntotoro]

13 minutes ago, IrepDC said:

You just had one of the worst defensive seasons in the history of the NFL. Look it up. Commanders fans are the only fans in the league who think every players new contract will break the market. I can't debate with you when you have that misconception. That's not how the rest of the NFL works. Washington has to overpay because everything about this team is bottom tier. I advocated keeping both Sweat and Chase because you're about to spend that money,  or draft capital, on those positions anyway. A bad team creating holes on their best unit. You now have more problems, because teams were not carving up Young on your edge, the way they carved every DE after the trade. You seem to only understand stats, but your Edges were getting WORKED OVER after Young and Sweat left. Your ONE team strength is now neutered. But you saved salary cap? Team has a LOT to learn about how real NFL teams are built.

 

I get what you're saying, but the D was that bad with those guys. The edges were ok with Sweat, awful with Chase. Liked to have kept Sweat, but the offer to a rebuilding team was too good and the team isn't gonna' spend $100m in a D-D-Line just because. Young, couldn't care less. Things turned out good for Sweat and good for the return. New FO, new staff, #2 overall pick, the team needs assets for rebuilding. Who cares about spending money or draft capital on stuff when the team would have either spent money or lost both of them, anyway? They got draft picks in return. Sweat got paid. Chase... well... nothing yet.

 

This isn't the Snyderskins anymore, though. This team is a promising destination because of the new ownership and the fact that anyone interviewing knows they'll get proper support, not Dan Snyder. I don't know if you have been following the last several days, but the stink of Snyder is done.

8 minutes ago, IrepDC said:

And I already made the concession, that IF you trade the DEs, you get better compensation. You get at minimum 2 picks for each player. Getting 2 picks for 2 of your best players is laughable. Packers would've got 5 picks minimum for Sweat and Young. Commanders are a farm team.

 

Ok... that's a bit much. It's unquantifiable and I particularly doubt interest in Chase was that intense. 

Edited January 12 by ntotoro

[IrepDC]

2 minutes ago, ntotoro said:

 

I get what you're saying, but the D was that bad with those guys. The edges were ok with Sweat, awful with Chase. Liked to have kept Sweat, but the offer to a rebuilding team was too good and the team isn't gonna' spend $100m in a D-D-Line just because. Young, couldn't care less. Things turned out good for Sweat and good for the return. New FO, new staff, #2 overall pick, the team needs assets for rebuilding. Who cares about spending money or draft capital on stuff when the team would have either spent money or lost both of them, anyway? They got draft picks in return. Sweat got paid. Chase... well... nothing yet.

 

This isn't the Snyderskins anymore, though. This team is a promising destination because of the new ownership and the fact that anyone interviewing knows they'll get proper support, not Dan Snyder. I don't know if you have been following the last several days, but the stink of Snyder is done.

 

Ok... that's a bit much.

This is one of my least favorite fan narratives. "We were bad with them so they must not be valuable." It's lazy. You have to be able to see the trees from the forest. It's also why you never get value for any of your pieces, because you habitually devalue everything you touch.

[ntotoro]

4 minutes ago, IrepDC said:

This is one of my least favorite fan narratives. "We were bad with them so they must not be valuable." It's lazy. You have to be able to see the trees from the forest. It's also why you never get value for any of your pieces, because you habitually devalue everything you touch.

 

You can't have it both ways, though. You can't say the edges were weak and the team gave up its two best players (debatable, especially in the case of Chase), even though they weren't that good with  those guys, then say it's lazy to point out the obvious.

 

Edit: The team just hired Adam Peters as the new GM. This is not the Snyderskins anymore.

Edited January 12 by ntotoro

[IrepDC]

1 minute ago, ntotoro said:

 

You can't have it both ways, though. You can't say the edges were weak and the team gave up its two best players (debatable, especially in the case of Chase), even though they weren't that good with  those guys, then say it's lazy to point out the obvious.

It's lazy because you clearly aren't watching film. You aren't watching how often the edges are set. You aren't tracking the impact in the run game. If you were, you'd understand the difference before and after the trades. Most fans only understand sacks and that's cool. It's their most important Stat. They also have other jobs. I am not saying your edges are a huge weakness now, just because. They were not a huge weakness before. I don't get how anyone could debate I'm wrong, but no one wants to acknowledge how BAD the edges were after the trade. Everyone was too bust watching San Fran and Bears DEs, apparently. Wonder why?

[ntotoro]

35 minutes ago, IrepDC said:

It's lazy because you clearly aren't watching film. You aren't watching how often the edges are set. You aren't tracking the impact in the run game. If you were, you'd understand the difference before and after the trades. Most fans only understand sacks and that's cool. It's their most important Stat. They also have other jobs. I am not saying your edges are a huge weakness now, just because. They were not a huge weakness before. I don't get how anyone could debate I'm wrong, but no one wants to acknowledge how BAD the edges were after the trade. Everyone was too bust watching San Fran and Bears DEs, apparently. Wonder why?

Because the ends were definitely a weakness, more on Chase's side. Especially in the run game. I'm not even talking sacks. Sweat was better in that regard. Neither was worth spending a ton of money when picks were available and now there's going to be a competent FO to handle it.

 

Love to have kept Sweat, but he'd have demanded money and the team got a pick. Chase was a case of being a goner and not worth the cash, so take what you can get.

 

The entire staff and FO were dead men walking. What was the point in keeping either DE around? 

Edited January 12 by ntotoro

[Darrell Green Fan]

2 hours ago, IrepDC said:

You just had one of the worst defensive seasons in the history of the NFL. Look it up. Commanders fans are the only fans in the league who think every players new contract will break the market. I can't debate with you when you have that misconception. That's not how the rest of the NFL works. Washington has to overpay because everything about this team is bottom tier. I advocated keeping both Sweat and Chase because you're about to spend that money,  or draft capital, on those positions anyway. A bad team creating holes on their best unit. You now have more problems, because teams were not carving up Young on your edge, the way they carved every DE after the trade. You seem to only understand stats, but your Edges were getting WORKED OVER after Young and Sweat left. Your ONE team strength is now neutered. But you saved salary cap? Team has a LOT to learn about how real NFL teams are built.

Funny my posts seem to be getting a lot of love, yours not so much.  You act like you are smarter then everyone else here. 

 

You are not.

 

We all know the holes it created. You were the only one to suggest they invest  $100 million a year for 4 defensive linemen when that group had several seasons to show they were great and they just weren't.  

[abdcskins]

Chase Young and Montez Sweat are not good football players, and there was no point in keeping them. Period end of discussion. 

[PokerPacker]

On 1/12/2024 at 11:27 AM, IrepDC said:

And I already made the concession, that IF you trade the DEs, you get better compensation. You get at minimum 2 picks for each player. Getting 2 picks for 2 of your best players is laughable. Packers would've got 5 picks minimum for Sweat and Young. Commanders are a farm team.

Packers traded away a solid CB in Rasul Douglass this season.  All they managed to get for him was to move up from the 5th round to the 3rd round.

[Warhead36]

9 hours ago, abdcskins said:

Chase Young and Montez Sweat are not good football players, and there was no point in keeping them. Period end of discussion. 

Sweat has been excellent with Chicago. 

[srtman04]

10 hours ago, abdcskins said:

Chase Young and Montez Sweat are not good football players, and there was no point in keeping them. Period end of discussion. 

Wtf Sweat set a record by leading sacks on two different teams in the same season.   

[abdcskins]

I think he is overrated and takes many plays off. He may have done okay in Chicago but I doubt he keeps it up.

[Warhead36]

Just now, abdcskins said:

I think he is overrated and takes many plays off. He may have done okay in Chicago but I doubt he keeps it up.

Young sure but not Sweat. Hes a baller. But we couldn’t justify paying him and a 2nd is good value so Im ok with the trade.

[PokerPacker]

52 minutes ago, srtman04 said:

Wtf Sweat set a record by leading sacks on two different teams in the same season.   

That says as much about the teams he played on as it does him.

[IrepDC]

On 1/13/2024 at 12:41 PM, PokerPacker said:

Packers traded away a solid CB in Rasul Douglass this season.  All they managed to get for him was to move up from the 5th round to the 3rd round.

They got more for Douglas than Washington got for Chase Young. 

On 1/12/2024 at 2:11 PM, Darrell Green Fan said:

Funny my posts seem to be getting a lot of love, yours not so much.  You act like you are smarter then everyone else here. 

 

You are not.

 

We all know the holes it created. You were the only one to suggest they invest  $100 million a year for 4 defensive linemen when that group had several seasons to show they were great and they just weren't.  

That's good you are getting likes. It wouldn't have cost 100 Million, and I never once said it would, but that's why I keep shewing you off. You refuse to listen to what I'm actually saying. You are arguing against yourself and not what I said.

[PokerPacker]

16 hours ago, IrepDC said:

They got more for Douglas than Washington got for Chase Young.

That is to be expected for a player who has been playing better.  In fact, Rasul Douglass was not being shopped.  The offer was made by the Bills because they saw value in him and obviously Green Bay was going nowhere this season (oops).

Edited January 15 by PokerPacker

[ntotoro]

12 hours ago, IrepDC said:

They got more for Douglas than Washington got for Chase Young. 

 

He's also a better, more valuable player than Chase Young.

[Darrell Green Fan]

22 hours ago, IrepDC said:

They got more for Douglas than Washington got for Chase Young. 

That's good you are getting likes. It wouldn't have cost 100 Million, and I never once said it would, but that's why I keep shewing you off. You refuse to listen to what I'm actually saying. You are arguing against yourself and not what I said.

I have listened to every word, all you have been talking about is the hole these trades have created which nobody is arguing. I have acknowledged your point and agreed that it left a hole.  I have also tried too explain why you are not looking at the bigger picture, you see you need to look at everything when evaluating the trades and the cap ramifications is a huge part of that.  The part you continue to ignore.   So I have carefully and painfully tried to explain this to you as you lecture us about your superior football knowledge. Your response was they have a lot of cap space so it was doable, which of course totally ignores how we have already seen collectively they just aren't worth that kind of cap commitment and how that caps space could not be better utilized elsewhere on the roster..

 

Sweat and Payne have a combined cap hit of $43 million for 2024.  Sweat just signed an extension that pays $25 million a year so that is what it would have cost Washington to retain him.  His cap hit is $25 million. So you already have $68 million tied into those 3. Say Chase's deal is $15 million a year, if he is as valuable as you claim that's probably low. 

 

So that leaves you with a cap hit of $83 million for 4 players who have proven that they are just not a great DL.  Chase has now proven in SF that without a doubt he is a pass rusher who can't get to the QB and I'm glad it's not my team that will be overpaying him.  OK so it's not 100 million but 83 million is far too much for their production.  So it would have been stupid to retain them at that cost  or to let them walk for nothing.

 

It's really very simple.  

Edited January 15 by Darrell Green Fan

[tmandoug1]

On 1/12/2024 at 11:21 AM, IrepDC said:

You just had one of the worst defensive seasons in the history of the NFL. Look it up. Commanders fans are the only fans in the league who think every players new contract will break the market. I can't debate with you when you have that misconception. That's not how the rest of the NFL works. Washington has to overpay because everything about this team is bottom tier. I advocated keeping both Sweat and Chase because you're about to spend that money,  or draft capital, on those positions anyway. A bad team creating holes on their best unit. You now have more problems, because teams were not carving up Young on your edge, the way they carved every DE after the trade. You seem to only understand stats, but your Edges were getting WORKED OVER after Young and Sweat left. Your ONE team strength is now neutered. But you saved salary cap? Team has a LOT to learn about how real NFL teams are built.

Our defense has sucked for the last ten years. Chase made no difference in the defensive performance this year. Lack of, oh I don't know, linebackers and a secondary that can cover anyone. 

[IrepDC]

On 1/15/2024 at 9:24 AM, tmandoug1 said:

Our defense has sucked for the last ten years. Chase made no difference in the defensive performance this year. Lack of, oh I don't know, linebackers and a secondary that can cover anyone. 

I'm really not understanding why you all are acting like your defense wasn't worse without Young, but whatever. Where is the Toohill thread? Smith-Williams? Henry? He outperformed them ALL combined, and he was a rotational player for San Fran. And I know that's an insult to some fans, but good teams use pass rushers in rotation. 

On 1/15/2024 at 8:18 AM, Darrell Green Fan said:

I have listened to every word, all you have been talking about is the hole these trades have created which nobody is arguing. I have acknowledged your point and agreed that it left a hole.  I have also tried too explain why you are not looking at the bigger picture, you see you need to look at everything when evaluating the trades and the cap ramifications is a huge part of that.  The part you continue to ignore.   So I have carefully and painfully tried to explain this to you as you lecture us about your superior football knowledge. Your response was they have a lot of cap space so it was doable, which of course totally ignores how we have already seen collectively they just aren't worth that kind of cap commitment and how that caps space could not be better utilized elsewhere on the roster..

 

Sweat and Payne have a combined cap hit of $43 million for 2024.  Sweat just signed an extension that pays $25 million a year so that is what it would have cost Washington to retain him.  His cap hit is $25 million. So you already have $68 million tied into those 3. Say Chase's deal is $15 million a year, if he is as valuable as you claim that's probably low. 

 

So that leaves you with a cap hit of $83 million for 4 players who have proven that they are just not a great DL.  Chase has now proven in SF that without a doubt he is a pass rusher who can't get to the QB and I'm glad it's not my team that will be overpaying him.  OK so it's not 100 million but 83 million is far too much for their production.  So it would have been stupid to retain them at that cost  or to let them walk for nothing.

 

It's really very simple.  

I'm not reading all that. You want to debate me. I don't want to debate you. You aren't saying anything meaningful. Enjoy your off-season. Go Pack! Go!

On 1/15/2024 at 7:53 AM, ntotoro said:

 

He's also a better, more valuable player than Chase Young.

If teams were reversed, Packers would have gotten more value for Young. Point being Commanders devalue everything they touch.