Welcome to the Redskins Chase Young DE Ohio State

[ntotoro]

1 minute ago, IrepDC said:

If you think they made up quotes from GMs, that's your prerogative. I don't see what benefits they'd have to lie. They were discussing the entire trade deadline and they don't even have personal ties to Washington. Stepping back and looking at the Commanders objectively, I'm seeing clearly how fans have to bury their head in the sand to rationalize being a league chump. To me this week showed that Washington will continue to be a farm team for real NFL franchises under Harris.

 

I don't think they made up quotes, I just don't believe they came from GM's. They don't care about words, they care about ratings. I still don't see where this trade sets any future precedent. There's just nothing there to indicate that. They traded one player for whom they got an offer too good to refuse, they traded another player whose ceiling is never going to be hit, whether for medical or on-field disciplinary issues.

[IrepDC]

2 minutes ago, ntotoro said:

 

I don't think they made up quotes, I just don't believe they came from GM's. They don't care about words, they care about ratings. I still don't see where this trade sets any future precedent. There's just nothing there to indicate that. They traded one player for whom they got an offer too good to refuse, they traded another player whose ceiling is never going to be hit, whether for medical or on-field disciplinary issues.

And from the other perspective, they created 2 major holes on a roster full of holes. It's like you had a leak in your ceiling, so you went and poked holes in the rest of the ceiling,  because the ceiling was already leaking anyway. Washington will be top candidates for edge rushers in FA and the draft now along with T, G, C, TE, LB, CB, and probably QB if I'm getting a read on Harris correctly. At bare minimum you get multiple picks per player so you can potentially fill more holes than you create. What Washington did was create more holes without getting any net gain possibilities. Two more holes. Two more picks. Both Sweat and Young were playing well and trending up also so we have no idea where Chase will end up as a ceiling. Washington fans will slander any player to justify bad negotiations. I heard the same slander of Trent Williams. When you keep getting chumped, you have to rationalize it somehow I guess.

[ntotoro]

1 minute ago, IrepDC said:

And from the other perspective, they created 2 major holes on a roster full of holes. It's like you had a leak in your ceiling, so you went and poked holes in the rest of the ceiling,  because the ceiling was already leaking anyway. Washington will be top candidates for edge rushers in FA and the draft now along with T, G, C, TE, LB, CB, and probably QB if I'm getting a read on Harris correctly. At bare minimum you get multiple picks per player so you can potentially fill more holes than you create. What Washington did was create more holes without getting any net gain possibilities. Two more holes. Two more picks. Both Sweat and Young were playing well and trending up also so we have no idea where Chase will end up as a ceiling. Washington fans will slander any player to justify bad negotiations. I heard the same slander of Trent Williams. When you keep getting chumped, you have to rationalize it somehow I guess.

 

Sweat was playing well. Young had situational highlights and lowlights. You're not spending $20m a year on both guys. The deal for Sweat was too much to pass up. They don't need high draft picks or big-dollars on DE's, especially ones who don't contain the edge. The league is moving more Offensive. The new FO will determine how the picks are used. I don't see how these are holes when you'd lost one if not both in the offseason. Chase disappeared in the Philly game. Neither one did amazingly well against good O-Lines, but Chase was particularly a problem: being easily chipped by TE's, over-persuing and opening huge run lanes, being nullified by decent LT's... not a $20m a year guy. 

[IrepDC]

1 minute ago, ntotoro said:

 

Sweat was playing well. Young had situational highlights and lowlights. You're not spending $20m a year on both guys. The deal for Sweat was too much to pass up. They don't need high draft picks or big-dollars on DE's, especially ones who don't contain the edge. The league is moving more Offensive. The new FO will determine how the picks are used. I don't see how these are holes when you'd lost one if not both in the offseason. Chase disappeared in the Philly game. Neither one did amazingly well against good O-Lines, but Chase was particularly a problem: being easily chipped by TE's, over-persuing and opening huge run lanes, being nullified by decent LT's... not a $20m a year guy. 

Philly's DL disappeared against our OL. One thing I realized from this site is that most fans don't watch the rest of the league so the standards here are really random. I also realized most fans just repeat what they hear. Sweat and Young have set the edge great this year. The teams that attempted to attack Washington's edges this year all failed. The secondary has been the problem for Washington, not the DL. But you will get to see what soft edges look like the same way you get to see what a soft OL looks like. Let's watch the improvements with Toohill and Smith-Williams since Sweat and Young were such a problem. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

1 hour ago, IrepDC said:

Where did I insult you? I have been responding and gave you evidence from other GMs to back my stance and shut down yours. If you want to believe the Commanders are doing a good job, go right ahead. No one is worried about the Commanders resurgence. 

OK let's try this again. I have spelled out all the scenarios, please tell me what you think they should have done with Chase Young and why you feel this way.  This is not too much to ask.  

[IrepDC]

7 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

OK let's try this again. I have spelled out all the scenarios, please tell me what you think they should have done with Chase Young and why you feel this way.  This is not too much to ask.  

With a 24 year old edge rusher who is breaking into top 10 pressure and win rates, you coach him up and let the season play out- like SF will do. With $90 million in cap room next year, and a roster full of holes, you can afford to keep one edge rusher. SF has a better DL than us and they still made the move to add more talent. Washington will end up paying another team's older edge rusher big money in FA, or using a high draft pick that could've filled another hole on DE. But I already conceded, you think it was a smart move, I think it was a chump move. It is what it is. Time will tell who was right.

Edited November 2, 2023 by IrepDC

[Darrell Green Fan]

14 minutes ago, IrepDC said:

With a 24 year old edge rusher who is breaking into top 10 pressure and win rates, you coach him up and let the season play out- like SF will do. With $90 million in cap room next year, and a roster full of holes, you can afford to keep one edge rusher. SF has a better DL than us and they still made the move to add more talent. Washington will end up paying another team's older edge rusher big money in FA, or using a high draft pick that could've filled another hole on DE. But I already conceded, you think it was a smart move, I think it was a chump move. It is what it is. Time will tell who was right.

 

Thanks for the reply.  

 

There is no guarantee a coach can "coach him up" and turn him into a player his contract will demand. Then there are the reports about his dedication, we already saw that with skipping OTA, reports you chose to ignore with regard to Dwayne Haskins. 

 

And again they already have a cap hit of $30 million for Allen and Payne, now you are suggesting a cap hit of over $40 million for 3 players who to date have not been close to worthy of such an investment.. Again SF does not have this much cap money into their DL and that is your model for success.

 

Finally which team do you root for?  You have a GB logo, you alternate between "you" and "us" when discussing the Commanders.  

Edited November 2, 2023 by Darrell Green Fan

[IrepDC]

2 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Thanks for the reply.  

 

There is no guarantee a coach can "coach him up" and turn him into a player his contract will demand. And again they already have a cap hit of $30 million for Allen and Payne, now you are suggesting a cap hit of over $40 million for 3 players who to date have not been close to worthy of such an investment.. Again SF does not have this much cap money into their DL and that is your model for success.

 

Finally which team do you root for?  You have a GB logo, you alternate between "you" and "we" when discussing the Commanders.  

I was a Redskins fan. I've been on this site for over half my life. I love football, played professionally, and always followed the entire league. I watch 3 or 4 games on multiple devices every Sunday. This week I finally got tired of doing mental gymnastics to support Washington. They suck. They're chumps. When you see me speak from a Commanders perspective, think of the clueless Ralph from the Simpsons meme. When you see the Packers logo, you see a team that is thoughtful, intentional, and a that has a winning culture. I laugh at fans mocking the Packers one bad season, because the Packers are already ahead of Washington in rebuilding. This week was basically my heel turn where I can finally call out the moronic and chump nature of my hometown team.

[ntotoro]

53 minutes ago, IrepDC said:

Philly's DL disappeared against our OL. One thing I realized from this site is that most fans don't watch the rest of the league so the standards here are really random. I also realized most fans just repeat what they hear. Sweat and Young have set the edge great this year. The teams that attempted to attack Washington's edges this year all failed. The secondary has been the problem for Washington, not the DL. But you will get to see what soft edges look like the same way you get to see what a soft OL looks like. Let's watch the improvements with Toohill and Smith-Williams since Sweat and Young were such a problem. 

 

Philly's D-Line seems to be the one EB has schemed best for because of... reasons. I don't know why that is.

 

Chase, particularly, did not contain well that game. There was a handful of times he got moved out of a lane (a few big ones on third downs) while over-pursuing. He never got to the QB once. He's not worth the $20m a year it would cost and he'd be gone, anyway, whether by accident or design. The mistake was drafting him 2nd overall. The league is becoming more Offense-oriented and rules are favoring that, not spending $80m on your D-Line. This isn't a "You guys don't watch the rest of the league" thing, this is a "believe what your eyes tell you is happening on the field" thing.

[IrepDC]

Just now, ntotoro said:

 

Philly's D-Line seems to be the one EB has schemed best for because of... reasons. I don't know why that is.

 

Chase, particularly, did not contain well that game. There was a handful of times he got moved out of a lane (a few big ones on third downs) while over-pursuing. He never got to the QB once. He's not worth the $20m a year it would cost and he'd be gone, anyway, whether by accident or design. The mistake was drafting him 2nd overall. The league is becoming more Offense-oriented and rules are favoring that, not spending $80m on your D-Line. This isn't a "You guys don't watch the rest of the league" thing, this is a "believe what your eyes tell you is happening on the field" thing.

The top two teams in the NFC have been loading up on DL and all contenders load up on edge rushers. If you weren't going to pay either DE, at least have someone in the pipeline. Now there are 2 more holes and Washington is the type of team to end up paying a 30 year old DE from another team over $20 million, but we will see. Edge rusher is definitely a hole now.

[Darrell Green Fan]

4 minutes ago, IrepDC said:

I was a Redskins fan. I've been on this site for over half my life. I love football, played professionally, and always followed the entire league. I watch 3 or 4 games on multiple devices every Sunday. This week I finally got tired of doing mental gymnastics to support Washington. They suck. They're chumps. When you see me speak from a Commanders perspective, think of the clueless Ralph from the Simpsons meme. When you see the Packers logo, you see a team that is thoughtful, intentional, and a that has a winning culture. I laugh at fans mocking the Packers one bad season, because the Packers are already ahead of Washington in rebuilding. This week was basically my heel turn where I can finally call out the moronic and chump nature of my hometown team.

 

You literally said 20 minutes ago "SF has a better DL than us".  So it's hard to tell if you consider this team yours or not.

 

Now how about the other points I made in that post?  Are you really suggesting they dedicate over $40 in cap next season to these 3 with the hope that a new coach can get him to commit, keep to his assignments and lastly and probably most importantly magically show him how to get the edge and to the QB instead of being run out of the play constantly?  You are really suggesting that gamble would be worth the risk?  Or maybe just maybe he is another Clowney and will never live up to his draft position, it happens all the time.  

[IrepDC]

Just now, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

You literally said 20 minutes ago "SF has a better DL than us".  So it's hard to tell if you consider this team yours or not.

 

Now how about the other points I made in that post?  Are you really suggesting they dedicate over $40 in cap next season to these 3 with the hope that a new coach can get him to commit, keep to his assignments and lastly and probably most importantly magically show him how to get the edge and to the QB instead of being run out of the play constantly?  You are really suggesting that gamble would be worth the risk?  Or maybe just maybe he is another Clowney and will never live up to his draft position, it happens all the time.  

Where else is the $90 million cap room being spent next year?

[Darrell Green Fan]

7 minutes ago, IrepDC said:

Where else is the $90 million cap room being spent next year?

 

You have already listed all the other needs on this team. I'll let you answer that question for yourself.   

Edited November 2, 2023 by Darrell Green Fan

[IrepDC]

Just now, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

You have already listed all the other needs on this team. I'll let you answer that for yourself.  

You couldn't have done that with $65 million in cap room? Is Washington back to believing they can buy a team in FA? You realize most FAs dont want to play here? This is not a respected or coveted signing spot. You and I both know Washington will continue to be a joke, but at least now I can laugh at it instead of caring. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Just now, IrepDC said:

You couldn't have done that with $65 million in cap room? Is Washington back to believing they can buy a team in FA? You realize most FAs dont want to play here? This is not a respected or coveted signing spot. You and I both know Washington will continue to be a joke, but at least now I can laugh at it instead of caring. 

 

No I do not know that. Because you see one of us understands that next year it will be a new owner, a new GM and coach and new EVERYTHING.  For you to claim it will be the same old Washington is such an ignorantly statement to make. 

[ntotoro]

6 minutes ago, IrepDC said:

The top two teams in the NFC have been loading up on DL and all contenders load up on edge rushers. If you weren't going to pay either DE, at least have someone in the pipeline. Now there are 2 more holes and Washington is the type of team to end up paying a 30 year old DE from another team over $20 million, but we will see. Edge rusher is definitely a hole now.

 

They've been drafting. The Commanders need to do the same and still can, but I'd argue the effectiveness of the players they traded versus calling their absences "holes."

 

They're only truly holes if they're consistent rabble-rousers. The lost production of either or both of them won't be catastrophic by any means. The Commanders also know they have zero invested in their O-Line and can still find players who have produced like Chase and Montez, even if I'm more upset about the loss of the latter.

[IrepDC]

Just now, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

No I do not know that. Because you see one of us understands that next year it will be a new owner, a new GM and coach and new EVERYTHING.  For you to claim it will be the same old Washington is such an ignorantly statement to make. 

I based that statement on getting to know more about Harris. He isn't a winner. He has Embid dragging him to the playoffs and that's it. He is also meddlesome which Commanders fans should be weary of. You'll see though. Same Ole Washington. 

3 minutes ago, ntotoro said:

 

They've been drafting. The Commanders need to do the same and still can, but I'd argue the effectiveness of the players they traded versus calling their absences "holes."

 

They're only truly holes if they're consistent rabble-rousers. The lost production of either or both of them won't be catastrophic by any means. The Commanders also know they have zero invested in their O-Line and can still find players who have produced like Chase and Montez, even if I'm more upset about the loss of the latter.

Cool you think losing two of our best players isn't creating holes. Let's see how it plays out. Next Giants game alone will be hilarious because they couldn't get Saquon around the edge. Watch what happens now.

[ntotoro]

5 minutes ago, IrepDC said:

Cool you think losing two of our best players isn't creating holes. Let's see how it plays out. Next Giants game alone will be hilarious because they couldn't get Saquon around the edge. Watch what happens now.

 

Calling them two of the team's best players is a bit hyperbolic, especially in the case of Chase. We'll see how they do on the edge, but I don't think over-pursuit will be a problem. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

17 minutes ago, ntotoro said:

 

Calling them two of the team's best players is a bit hyperbolic, especially in the case of Chase. We'll see how they do on the edge, but I don't think over-pursuit will be a problem. 

 

Yeah the team's best players don't blow off their assignments and leave gaping holes.  It's amazing to me how some (well one) poster seems to value Chase Young more than anyone else, including the GMs who didn't offer more than a 3rd.  

[IrepDC]

5 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Yeah the team's best players don't blow off their assignments and leave gaping holes.  It's amazing to me how some (well one) poster seems to value Chase Young more than anyone else, including the GMs who didn't offer more than a 3rd.  

The groupthink on this site will always be biased towards hoping the team makes the right decision. You not only ignoring insights from league GMs, but creating a lie that they agreed with the move, is sad. You desperately want this to be different. I'll get back to enjoying reading the delusional takes so you're not disturbed. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

2 hours ago, IrepDC said:

The groupthink on this site will always be biased towards hoping the team makes the right decision. You not only ignoring insights from league GMs, but creating a lie that they agreed with the move, is sad. You desperately want this to be different. I'll get back to enjoying reading the delusional takes so you're not disturbed. 

 

Your entire arguments appears to be based on a report you saw or heard sharing GM's opinions.  Do I need to explain to you that this is a 2nd hand news, not direct quotes, and it sure didn't include all the other 31 GMs  I on the other hand have actually provided cap figures and spelled out how they really made the best of the situation, an argument you have yet to address let alone disprove.

 

If he was really worth more than a late 3rd than another team would have offered more, it's just that simple. This fact carries more weight than your report and it's not a lie.  Again the market does not lie, it is not emotional, and this is the value the market has placed on Chase Young today.  

Edited November 2, 2023 by Darrell Green Fan

[clskinsfan]

On 11/1/2023 at 2:50 PM, IrepDC said:

Packers have one bad season and you think our roster is bad.

[HOF44]

[Darrell Green Fan]

Again there were huge salary cap issues if they retained Chase, something @IrepDCfailed to address and was the main point of my argument.  

[IrepDC]

1 hour ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

Again there were huge salary cap issues if they retained Chase, something @IrepDCfailed to address and was the main point of my argument.  

You're right. Word is Harris is going to buy a new team this off-season with that $90 million cap space. Welcome to 1999.