Local12: Ohio House passes bill allowing student answers to be scientifically wrong due to religion

[Cooked Crack]

Quote

The Ohio House on Wednesday passed the "Student Religious Liberties Act." Under the law, students can't be penalized if their work is scientifically wrong as long as the reasoning is because of their religious beliefs.

 

Instead, students are graded on substance and relevance.

 

Every Republican in the House supported the bill. It now moves to the Republican-controlled Senate.

https://local12.com/news/local/ohio-house-passes-bill-allowing-student-answers-to-be-scientifically-wrong-due-to-religion

 

 

[Warhead36]

We have all this technology and information at our fingertips yet our country just gets dumber and dumber.

[88Comrade2000]

11 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

We have all this technology and information at our fingertips yet our country just gets dumber and dumber.

Republicans like them dumb and stupid.

[bearrock]

My religion dictates that the only answer to every academic question is the number 1.  

[No Excuses]

Seems like the kind of dumb bill that even if it gets passed, the underlying law will never be enforced. 
 

It’s a participation trophy to make dumb people feel like their winning a culture war but in reality it doesn’t really do anything. 

[@DCGoldPants]

Sorry student from Ohio, your SAT scores look good. But unfortunately, your state curriculum by default disqualifies you from this university in another state that you've wanted to attend since you in Jr. High. We hear Liberty University is out of bankruptcy since Mr. Falwell went to prison and are looking for new students. However, most companies won't consider that degree worth the catskin it's printed on.

[Larry]

Now, the fact that this law is being passed by Republicans makes me automatically skeptical.  So I'm reading the actual bill, as passed by the House, with an eye looking for weasel words that will be abused.  And I'm not sure I'm finding any.  

 

Looks like the relevant portion of the bill is on the last two pages of the PDF, and reads:  

 

Quote

 Sec. 3320.03. No school district board of education,. . . . ,  shall prohibit a student from engaging in religious expression in the completion of homework, artwork, or other written or oral assignments. Assignment grades and scores shall be calculated using ordinary academic standards of substance and relevance, including any legitimate pedagogical concerns, and shall not penalize or reward a student based on the religious content of a student's work.

 

The way I read that, if the student says "Things fall down because God said so", that answer is still wrong.  But, if the student's answer is "Objects at the surface of the Earth experience an acceleration due to gravity of 32 ft/sec^2, because God said so", then that last clause does not make the answer wrong.  

 

There's some other clauses to the law, but I think I'm cool with them, too.  For example, it states that students may engage in religious activities on school grounds, subject to the same rules as sectarian activities.  I'm pretty sure that the courts have already made that ruling, anyway.  

 

There's a whole lot of the bill I didn't read,  But it deals with the things that some kind of school (charter or some such?) must include in their contract, which must be available for public download.  

[LadySkinsFan]

Republican are creeping in religious exceptions into schools. They were successful in adding religious exemptions into federal contracts. They have been doing this since the 50s everywhere they can. 

 

The Republican party is basically the John Birch Society.

[bearrock]

1 hour ago, Larry said:

Now, the fact that this law is being passed by Republicans makes me automatically skeptical.  So I'm reading the actual bill, as passed by the House, with an eye looking for weasel words that will be abused.  And I'm not sure I'm finding any.  

 

Looks like the relevant portion of the bill is on the last two pages of the PDF, and reads:  

 

 

The way I read that, if the student says "Things fall down because God said so", that answer is still wrong.  But, if the student's answer is "Objects at the surface of the Earth experience an acceleration due to gravity of 32 ft/sec^2, because God said so", then that last clause does not make the answer wrong.  

 

There's some other clauses to the law, but I think I'm cool with them, too.  For example, it states that students may engage in religious activities on school grounds, subject to the same rules as sectarian activities.  I'm pretty sure that the courts have already made that ruling, anyway.  

 

There's a whole lot of the bill I didn't read,  But it deals with the things that some kind of school (charter or some such?) must include in their contract, which must be available for public download.  

 

But let's say the student engaged in copious citations and research of religious text to conclude that God created the universe in 7 days and that dinosaurs didn't exist.  What grade is a biology teacher supposed to give?

 

I guessed viewed from a different perspectives, what concern is this law trying to address?  Were there students being penalized for religious expression in a work when the work was otherwise academically sound?

[Larry]

16 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

Republican are creeping in religious exceptions into schools. They were successful in adding religious exemptions into federal contracts. They have been doing this since the 50s everywhere they can. 

 

The Republican party is basically the John Birch Society.

 

While your post may well be an accurate reflection of your personal religious beliefs, you failed to even attempt to include any facts whatsoever regarding the question, which was the bill in question.  Therefore I'm going to have to give you a zero on this answer.  

 

[Larry]

4 minutes ago, bearrock said:

 

But let's say the student engaged in copious citations and research of religious text to conclude that God created the universe in 7 days and that dinosaurs didn't exist.  What grade is a biology teacher supposed to give?

 

"Assignment grades and scores shall be calculated using ordinary academic standards of substance and relevance, including any legitimate pedagogical concerns"  

 

Pretty sure ordinary academic standards are that dinosaurs did, in fact, exist.  

 

The law does not require teachers to regard religious myths as scientific fact.  

 

4 minutes ago, bearrock said:

I guessed viewed from a different perspectives, what concern is this law trying to address?  Were there students being penalized for religious expression in a work when the work was otherwise academically sound?

 

Oh, the law is intended to score political points.  Almost certainly one of them is "look how we're trying to protect your child from being punished by his school for being Christian, which we all know the liberals would do if you don't get out there and vote Republican."  

 

But if all the law does is to legislate what is already current law, anyway?  Does that make it evil?  Or just useless grandstanding?  

[bearrock]

11 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

"Assignment grades and scores shall be calculated using ordinary academic standards of substance and relevance, including any legitimate pedagogical concerns"  

 

Pretty sure ordinary academic standards are that dinosaurs did, in fact, exist.  

 

The law does not require teachers to regard religious myths as scientific fact.  

 

 

Substance and relevance.  I think that's where rubber meets the road.  It's very easy to foresee a student arguing that their paper has substance, it just happens to be rooted in religious text.  Relevance will be easy to establish in most circumstances.  I think this opens the door for students to argue why intelligent design is correct, why literal reading of the Bible can supersede scientific methods, etc because those are all rooted in religious expression and the law speaks in very vague generalities about "legitimate pedagogical concerns".

 

If push comes to shove and a student sues based on this statute, it's hard for a judge to conclude that the law did not mean to change anything and is mere political grandstanding.  

[Larry]

I can argue that my paper has substance, too, the substance just happens to be Wikipedia.  Or Breitbart.  

 

I'm certain that multiple students have done so, in fact.   

 

How do Wikipedia or Breitbart rank, in terms of ordinary academic standards of substance and relevance?  

[Burgold]

My religion says stars are just holes in a black piece of cardboard that G-d shines a flashlight through. 

 

Now, give me my A. 

[bearrock]

8 minutes ago, Larry said:

I can argue that my paper has substance, too, the substance just happens to be Wikipedia.  Or Breitbart.  

 

I'm certain that multiple students have done so, in fact.   

 

How do Wikipedia or Breitbart rank, in terms of ordinary academic standards of substance and relevance?  

 

But is there a law enshrining protection for political expression (for Breitbart) in academic work of grade school students?  And that's specifically the point isn't it?  A teacher can say Wikipedia is not an acceptable source.  There's no protection for Wikipedia.  With this law, can a teacher say religious text is not an acceptable source?  Does that not infringe on a student's religious expression?

[Mooka]

2 hours ago, Larry said:

The way I read that, if the student says "Things fall down because God said so", that answer is still wrong.  But, if the student's answer is "Objects at the surface of the Earth experience an acceleration due to gravity of 32 ft/sec^2, because God said so", then that last clause does not make the answer wrong.  

 

What if the student simply refuses to do the assignment for religious beliefs?

 

I do remember this happening in grade school personally though, students could get a written note from their parents excusing them from certain things. From what I remember it was mostly stuff to do with possible nudity, drugs or alcohol though. 

[Burgold]

7 minutes ago, Mooka said:

 

What if the student simply refuses to do the assignment for religious beliefs?

 

I do remember this happening in grade school personally though, students could get a written note from their parents excusing them from certain things. From what I remember it was mostly stuff to do with possible nudity, drugs or alcohol though. 

I have more sympathy for this position. 

[Larry]

19 minutes ago, Mooka said:

 

What if the student simply refuses to do the assignment for religious beliefs?

 

I do remember this happening in grade school personally though, students could get a written note from their parents excusing them from certain things. From what I remember it was mostly stuff to do with possible nudity, drugs or alcohol though. 

 

Your school needed a parental note for a student to opt out of nudity, drugs, or alcohol?  

[mistertim]

Will it be the same for med school students in Ohio? 

 

"Dude, you just removed this cadaver's liver. We were practicing an appendectomy. You fail."

 

"My religion says this is the appendix"

 

"Um. Well, ok. He'res your medical license"

[Destino]

I have no idea what this law does or does not do.  Until that’s cleared up, I have no idea how to feel about it.

[Larry]

1 hour ago, Destino said:

I have no idea what this law does or does not do.  Until that’s cleared up, I have no idea how to feel about it.

 

Probably easier than reading the link I posted to the bill.  Or the one paragraph I posted in this thread that seems to be what's being discussed.   

[Destino]

16 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Probably easier than reading the link I posted to the bill.  Or the one paragraph I posted in this thread that seems to be what's being discussed.   

I did read the bill, and I’m still uncertain as to how Sec 3320.03 will actually play out in classrooms.  Without knowing that, I feel that it’s premature to form an opinion either for or against.  

[Peregrine]

The stupidity of people on this forum is astounding at times.  Read the actual language before spouting your no-one-cares opinion:

 

"Assignment grades and scores shall be calculated using ordinary academic standards of substance and relevance, including any legitimate pedagogical concerns, and shall not penalize or reward a student based on the religious content of a student's work."

 

Work is not scored differently, you just cant get extra points or be deducted points because you use religious content, just whether you actually get the answers correct by ordinary academic standards.  Non-story posted to create more pointless hate.

[Larry]

38 minutes ago, Peregrine said:

The stupidity of people on this forum is astounding at times.  Read the actual language before spouting your no-one-cares opinion:

 

"Assignment grades and scores shall be calculated using ordinary academic standards of substance and relevance, including any legitimate pedagogical concerns, and shall not penalize or reward a student based on the religious content of a student's work."

 

He said, quoting the portion of the law which has already been quoted at least once in this thread, and has been discussed by maybe half the posts in the thread.  

 

But then, nothing says "My interpretation of this clause is the One True Interpretation" quite as well as announcing that the entire world (except one's self) is astoundingly stupid.