FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[Anselmheifer]

It's just ruining the thread probably time to let it go. 

1 minute ago, bakedtater1 said:

Is that your polite way of asking everyone to quit arguing?

This!

[bakedtater1]

1 minute ago, Llevron said:

 

 

Seems pretty clear lol. What is it you are having a problem understanding? 

The comment it self

1 minute ago, Anselmheifer said:

It's just ruining the thread probably time to let it go. 

This!

This what?

[Llevron]

So back to the QB, right? 

 

I like how he throws TDs and stuff and junk. 

[bakedtater1]

1 minute ago, Llevron said:

So back to the QB, right? 

 

I like how he throws TDs and stuff and junk. 

ohhhh I see you were politely asking everyone to quit arguing or what have ya..for sure it should not be up for topic..sorry I threw my two cents in

[Anselmheifer]

Just now, bakedtater1 said:

The comment it self

This what?

I am seconding the sentiment to stop arguing for the sake of the thread and to move the discussion along in a different direction. It's no fun just to watch people arguing and then eventually watch the moderators step in, especially when people just aren't going to see eye to eye. "Is too! Is not! Is too! Is not!" doesn't make a good thread. Especially in this case where there isn't even any substantive discussion. 

[TheShredder]

3 hours ago, bakedtater1 said:

Stop with the race card...how ****ing stupid..

What's a race card??  Oh, does it have something to do with NASCAR?  I'm confused.

 

[bakedtater1]

5 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

I am seconding the sentiment to stop arguing for the sake of the thread and to move the discussion along in a different direction. It's no fun just to watch people arguing and then eventually watch the moderators step in, especially when people just aren't going to see eye to eye. "Is too! Is not! Is too! Is not!" doesn't make a good thread. Especially in this case where there isn't even any substantive discussion. 

Thank you...all I wanted was an explanation... completely agree..no more from me sorry

5 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

What's a race card??  Oh, does it have something to do with NASCAR?  I'm confused.

https://media.giphy.com/media/60rVz8Bg24LVMc5lgl/g

 

Who was talking about NASCAR?..I know you have heard the term "race card"..I how ever do not follow NASCAR at all ever in any way shape or form

[Anselmheifer]

1 minute ago, bakedtater1 said:

Thank you...all I wanted was an explanation... completely agree..no more from me sorry

 

Yup! Probably a better topic for the politics thread, which I will also avoid, because it's still no fun to watch people argue!

 

Regarding Haskins, I don't think he's as bad an athlete as has been made out. Plenty of QB's have run a 5.04 and a 28.5 inch vertical at 230 pounds is nothing to sneeze at. He's 0.1 seconds slower in a 40 than Kirk Cousins. He also runs for plenty of first downs. I agree, he doesn't have Rosen's feet. Rosen also doesn't have Haskins' brain. I do think Haskins needs to work on his feet in the pocket, and I'm sure he will. I also think some of the concern about Haskins' athleticism is his body type, which is fair. He looks like the type of guy that could gain bad weight easily. 

[TheShredder]

9 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

Who was talking about NASCAR?..I know you have heard the term "race card"..I how ever do not follow NASCAR at all ever in any way shape or form

Yeah I hate NASCAR except if I want to fall asleep, then I'll put it on and turn up the surround sound for the noise going around in circles!

 

7 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Regarding Haskins, I don't think he's as bad an athlete as has been made out. Plenty of QB's have run a 5.04 and a 28.5 inch vertical at 230 pounds is nothing to sneeze at. He's 0.1 seconds slower in a 40 than Kirk Cousins. He also runs for plenty of first downs. I agree, he doesn't have Rosen's feet. Rosen also doesn't have Haskins' brain. I do think Haskins needs to work on his feet in the pocket, and I'm sure he will. I also think some of the concern about Haskins' athleticism is his body type, which is fair. He looks like the type of guy that could gain bad weight easily. 

I thought his release looked like Dan Marino so I watched some Marino highlights and he does throw like that.  His arm will get stronger too, he's just a youngster.  Look at Brady coming into the league and his arm strength was the question.  He worked on building his arm strength and it worked out well.  Haskins has a great arm and quick release.  Only upside with this young QB for sure.

[RandyHolt]

On 5/4/2019 at 7:56 AM, LD0506 said:

IMO the fundamental question that will determine Haskins' fate is this, how do you develop and use him? Look around the league, there are a lot of examples of young QBs that were either highly touted pre-draft, or barely noticed, that completely confounded those supposedly "expert" assessments. People laughed at Chi taking Trubitsky, there was talk about whether Mahomes could play in the pros, Lamar Jackson, Deshaun Watson............. quite a few brand new toys have been unwrapped and when someone actually read the instructions first, they were smokin'. Others that fit comfortably into peoples perceptions and were handled in the same ole way by teams have yet to impress. Who would rather have Darnold? Or Rosen? 

 

The success stories hinge on an organization making the effort and stepping aside from their egos to use these kids to the best of their abilities, play to their strengths and build a team around them. If Jay & Co. sit the kid for a year of pounding his square peg ass into their preconceived round holes, he may never approach anything memorable. The same way that if they just throw him in and let him do what he wants without the parenting, he could be RG3 2.0. To my admittedly rook eye, this has kid something, he has some game and could become a transformational player for this team, but that won't just fall out of the air like rain. He needs to be mentored, coached in the best sense of the word and have a system and gameplan that allows him to flourish. THAT'S what I worry about.

 

Post of the thread candidate. 

There is not nearly enough scrutiny on how QBs have been developed. Like, there has been almost no discussion. Yet their fate lay almost solely in the hands of their QB coach, OC, and head coach.  Yet any time a kid fails, blame has been firmly placed on the QBs shoulders.  I have called bunk on that for years. Their OC would rather go down in flames than amend their overly complex playbook to their shiny new QBs strengths. One of my favorites - Al Saunders and his 800 page playbook for Jason... trimmed down to 400 pages for his 2nd year.

 

There has been a change in the NFL ranks.  Young QBs can suddenly succeed.  The track record of recent QBs making the playoffs or even the big dance is no coincidence.  OCs have finally wised up after getting fired all those decades from their failed square peg QB and round hole playbook approach.  Draft a QB? Stop, it's Hammer time!

 

The question remains, what will Jay do.  Jay controls his fate, and in doing so, his own. If Jay refuses to use Haskins to his strengths in year 1 and Haskins struggles, I want a new coach next year. It's that simple.  And I do think Jay knows his time is almost up. Will his priority also be, to win now? Or, engage on the traditional long slow development of a QB aka slow and steady wins the race. No, no it doesn't. The historical fail rate of QBs says otherwise.

 

I like to spur discussions on the failures of OC/Qbs but with the NFL and QB play as big as it is, I am surprised the MSM hasn't tackled his proper. Heck, it wasn't until recently that we started getting advanced statistics. Times are changing, finally.

[bakedtater1]

6 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

Yup! Probably a better topic for the politics thread, which I will also avoid, because it's still no fun to watch people argue!

 

Regarding Haskins, I don't think he's as bad an athlete as has been made out. Plenty of QB's have run a 5.04 and a 28.5 inch vertical at 230 pounds is nothing to sneeze at. He's 0.1 seconds slower in a 40 than Kirk Cousins. He also runs for plenty of first downs. I agree, he doesn't have Rosen's feet. Rosen also doesn't have Haskins' brain. I do think Haskins needs to work on his feet in the pocket, and I'm sure he will. I also think some of the concern about Haskins' athleticism is his body type, which is fair. He looks like the type of guy that could gain bad weight easily. 

Ya know...I'm just a baked tater under a rock here in I d ho....I try to watch film and highlights and listen and read everyone's analysis about a player.. Haskins being the player this time..and at the very end..I still choose to be a Redskins fan and any player that wears the burgundy and gold gets my support..to a point lol..I am a piece of **** when it comes to being productive here..I'm just a cheerleader that shouldn't throw my two cents in here n there..

 

My HONEST OPINION it's a privilege to be here at this site..y'all have Facebook and Twitter and all that other fancy stuff..that I could be a part of but refuse to, and this is my outlet..this site..I get kicked out, I feel like how the normal person would feel when they get de-friended..

[Rex Tomb]

10 hours ago, bowhunter said:

Can you please stop this?? Can we just stop judging by /commenting on color and let racism  just friggin die??   

For some, it's the only thing they see.  It's really unfortunate to let something like that dominate your perspective on things.  I would imagine it's a hard way to go through life.  

[volsmet]

48 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

I get kicked out, I feel like how the normal person would feel when they get de-friended..

 

[mistertim]

[Anselmheifer]

50 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

 

There is not nearly enough scrutiny on how QBs have been developed. Like, there has been almost no discussion. Yet their fate lay almost solely in the hands of their QB coach, OC, and head coach.  Yet any time a kid fails, blame has been firmly placed on the QBs shoulders.  I have called bunk on that for years. Their OC would rather go down in flames than amend their overly complex playbook to their shiny new QBs strengths. One my favorites - Al Saunders and his 800 page playbook for Jason... trimmed down to 400 pages for his 2nd year.

 

There has been a change in the NFL ranks.  Young QBs can suddenly succeed.  The track record of recent QBs making the playoffs or even the big dance is no coincidence.  OCs have finally wised up after getting fired all those decades from their failed square peg QB and round hole playbook approach.  Draft a QB? Stop, it's Hammer time!

 

I agree with this. Especially if our OL holds together at all and if we can eek some health out of Thompson, Guice and Reed. Just run a ton of short passing sets incorporating WC concepts and don't have Haskins hold the ball a lot. We have some YAC guys now, given any health. McLaurin and Richardson both have speed. Thompson is an elite YAC guy. Run the ball, throw a bunch of quick hitters and occasionally go deep off of play action. Haskins is super smart and is great at getting the ball out quickly. I really think this kind of offense could succeed and keep some of the pressure off of our defense. The Steelers brought Big Ben around slowly. They started out as a running/defensive team, and as Roethlisberger's game evolved, they handed him more responsibility. 

[volsmet]

1 hour ago, RandyHolt said:

 

One my favorites - Al Saunders and his 800 page playbook for Jason... trimmed down to 400 pages for his 2nd year.

 

 

 

People underestimate what a coaches playbook looks like, they weigh 48lbs. 

[mistertim]

I agree when it comes to how we develop Haskins and play to his strengths but I'm legit worried that we'll do it wrong. Jay has a very good offensive mind for devising playbooks but I also think he can be pretty rigid when it comes to his "system" and whether or not he truly caters to the talent he has. It's one of the reasons I'm almost convinced that if we had somehow traded up for Murray he would have been a possible bust here. Would Mahomes have become so good under many coaches other than Reid? I'm skeptical. 

[volsmet]

10 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

I agree with this. Especially if our OL holds together at all and if we can eek some health out of Thompson, Guice and Reed. Just run a ton of short passing sets incorporating WC concepts and don't have Haskins hold the ball a lot. We have some YAC guys now, given any health. McLaurin and Richardson both have speed. Thompson is an elite YAC guy. Run the ball, throw a bunch of quick hitters and occasionally go deep off of play action. Haskins is super smart and is great at getting the ball out quickly. I really think this kind of offense could succeed and keep some of the pressure off of our defense. The Steelers brought Big Ben around slowly. They started out as a running/defensive team, and as Roethlisberger's game evolved, they handed him more responsibility. 

 

Quick passes & max protection for Dwayne; priority 1 is to keep him confident in his protection. 

[volsmet]

2 minutes ago, mistertim said:

I agree when it comes to how we develop Haskins and play to his strengths but I'm legit worried that we'll do it wrong. Jay has a very good offensive mind for devising playbooks but I also think he can be pretty rigid when it comes to his "system" and whether or not he truly caters to the talent he has. It's one of the reasons I'm almost convinced that if we had somehow traded up for Murray he would have been a possible bust here. Would Mahomes have become so good under many coaches other than Reid? I'm skeptical. 

 

Ego in coaching, it’s incredibly tough on some to watch a guy like Mahomes make unscripted plays for 60 minutes. Many coaches don’t like it, it’s tough to get a HC spot & those that do tend to want to prove they’re chess players who only get beat when the pieces fail to perform as intended. 

 

A coach invests 50,000 hours teach QBs the fundamentals only to watch Mahomes throw with his left hand or sidearm; It’s a hit to all a coach has ever placed importance on, it’s tough to adjust around guys when you only have a few years to prove you belong. Reid used to be far more rigid with McNabb.

[bakedtater1]

Well with draft here and gone..I imagine an extension is in the works for Scherff..all good juju for the silverback and Moses..uhhhghuhhhhuuuiu...left guard..lavou still?...well any way good juju on the o line for protection for our rookie..they give him time I think he'll shine..

[Anselmheifer]

37 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

Ego in coaching, it’s incredibly tough on some to watch a guy like Mahomes make unscripted plays for 60 minutes. Many coaches don’t like it, it’s tough to get a HC spot & those that do tend to want to prove they’re chess players who only get beat when the pieces fail to perform as intended. 

 

A coach invests 50,000 hours teach QBs the fundamentals only to watch Mahomes throw with his left hand or sidearm; It’s a hit to all a coach has ever placed importance on, it’s tough to adjust around guys when you only have a few years to prove you belong. Reid used to be far more rigid with McNabb.

 

This is why the Shannahans were better coaches than Gruden. They drafted a talent and designed an entire offense around that guy's skills. And the offense was wildly successful until he was injured. Ditto Frank Reich's work with tuning the Offense for Foles in stead of Wentz. We need a little of that cooking. 

49 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

Quick passes & max protection for Dwayne; priority 1 is to keep him confident in his protection. 

I don't even know about max protect. Dwayne gets the ball out so quick. Maybe it will take more time to develop that as a pro. I love that he is a student of the game. I think he has a good chance to succeed based on that alone. 

[mistertim]

26 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

I don't even know about max protect. Dwayne gets the ball out so quick. Maybe it will take more time to develop that as a pro. I love that he is a student of the game. I think he has a good chance to succeed based on that alone. 

 

I'd max protect him a bit at first as well. It doesn't necessarily have as much to do with him not getting the ball out fast when necessary as it does the fact that in his only year of college experience he played behind one of the best OLs in the nation and he rarely saw lots of pressure. I'd rather max protect him at first and let him slowly adjust to seeing more pressure (as well as NFL speed/defenses in general) than throw him out there and just hope he doesn't get shell shocked.

[wit33]

I’m enjoying the overall cut ups of Haskins, especially his ability to manipulate the pocket at this stage of his career. He naturally slides into various gaps to extend time for playmakers— 100% a requirement to compete if you don’t possess above average or elite speed. There was a play against WU where he displayed a great understanding of angles and defensive player momentum when evading the defenders that was great to see. 

 

Pocket presence above all for me when it comes to a “pocket QB”. So far I’m encouraged in my journey to familiarize myself with Haskins. 

[volsmet]

 

38 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

I don't even know about max protect. Dwayne gets the ball out so quick. Maybe it will take more time to develop that as a pro. I love that he is a student of the game. I think he has a good chance to succeed based on that alone. 

 

Confidence in protection is as important as actual protection. When a young QB believes his health is being protected, it’s different psychologically & can impact them long term. Few guys get drafted who hold the ball a long time in college, many get ruined while adjusting to the incomprehensible speed difference in the NFL. You can’t simulate it, you can’t work on that comfort, you can’t know how a young QB responds after getting rid of it quickly results in a pick6 on a team of millionaires he feels he let down ... its far more complicated.

 

 

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]