2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Burgundy Yoda]

3 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Walker LIttle has to get surgery on his knee and he's going to miss the rest of the year.  I don't think he's going to be leaving college this year.

Crap. Is there any other first round graded Tackles coming out now besides Andrew Thomas?

[sportjunkie07]

On 9/9/2019 at 12:01 PM, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

He's got next level speed and playmaking ability, but I just don't see how he's going to hold up long term at his size.  I think he's going to be one of those guys who gives you like 10-12 dynamic games a year, and you just have to hope that he's available for a stretch/playoff run.

 

But between him and LaMar Jackson, when the Ravens are healthy, they are going to be lethal.  Especially with that defense.  I think they're more complete than the Kansas City and I think them and Houston are the only ones with a chance of beating New England in the AFC this year.

Browns has some elite traits no doubt, but I'm holding off on labeling him a monster as of yet. 

 

The dolphins are in super tank mode. They were down 42-3 before halftime. It's difficult to evaluate such ineptitude.  

[Going Commando]

11 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Crap. Is there any other first round graded Tackles coming out now besides Andrew Thomas?

 

Impossible to know at this point.  Thomas could end up going back to school too because he's only a Junior.  Wirfs from Iowa is a first round target, but he's also a Junior.  Cosmi from Texas would be in the mix too, but he's only a RS Sophomore and I could certainly see him returning to school.

 

Trey Adams from Washington has gotten first round hype, but from what I've seen of him, he's not actually any good yet.

 

Tennessee and Auburn both have prospects who could be in the first round discussion as well, but I haven't evaluated them yet.

 

The strength of the top end of this tackle class is totally dependent on what the underclassmen do.  This is why I was warning @Skinsinparadise not to count our chickens before they hatch re: the OT class this year.  It could end up being awful if either Wirfs or Thomas get hurt/stay in school.

Lucas Niang from TCU is another one to watch as a potential RT prospect.  I don't know about first round for him, but day 2 is possible.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

 

The strength of the top end of this tackle class is totally dependent on what the underclassmen do.  This is why I was warning @Skinsinparadise not to count our chickens before they hatch re: the OT class this year.  It could end up being awful if either Wirfs or Thomas get hurt/stay in school.

Lucas Niang from TCU is another one to watch as a potential RT prospect.  I don't know about first round for him, but day 2 is possible.

 

Agree it has to play out first.    I want to trade Trent regardless.  In theory it looks like a stacked draft coming up and I don't just mean O line.  In a trade, if they can get a first and another high pick (which plenty of national reporters believe is doable), we can likely have some fun doing some shopping.  A 31 year old injury prone LT IMO isn't the future of this team -- and if I recall you made that point first -- and if so I agree with you. 

 

Typically though you can find O line help in the first round regardless of how stacked the draft seems.  Eagles seem in love with Dillard and they got him at 22.  Some other guys that I liked including Risner and Cody Ford were found in the early 2nd.  I'd presume with multiple high draft picks, we can land someone.  

 

[illone]

Might as well start the 2021 Draft thread as well. Can we get a new coach this year, please?

[Going Commando]

23 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Agree it has to play out first.    I want to trade Trent regardless.  In theory it looks like a stacked draft coming up and I don't just mean O line.  In a trade, if they can get a first and another high pick (which plenty of national reporters believe is doable), we can likely have some fun doing some shopping.  A 31 year old injury prone LT IMO isn't the future of this team -- and if I recall you made that point first -- and if so I agree with you. 

 

Typically though you can find O line help in the first round regardless of how stacked the draft seems.  Eagles seem in love with Dillard and they got him at 22.  Some other guys that I liked including Risner and Cody Ford were found in the early 2nd.  I'd presume with multiple high draft picks, we can land someone.   

 

I agree with you about trading Trent.  Ultimately, I don't see how we can ever trust him again.  He's worth a big cap hit and potential high picks to us, I probably would have already traded him if I were the GM.  I don't love the precedent it sets though.

 

I'm also not confident about finding a solution at OT in this draft, particularly if the underclassmen stay in school.  The quality of the OT class wouldn't even factor into a decision about Trent for me, because it's unknowable at the point of making the decision on Trent this season.

 

Last year ended up being a good OL class, and it's a little painful that we couldn't get someone like Risner or Ford or Dillard.  That would solve so many problems right now.  Dillard was a tremendous value for the Eagles at 22, and it's definitely irritating that Philly and New York had such good drafts.  We had a great class ourselves, but it doesn't feel like we gained ground.

 

I just want the draft to break for us in such a way that we can get some OL solutions at good value.  And you're right, to that end, stockpiling picks is the best we can do to put the odds in our favor.  And right now Trent is nothing to us but a big old dead cap hit.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

 

[Going Commando]

I don't think we'll be picking 2nd overall but Chase Young would be a worthy value there and a tremendous get.  He is one of the best pass rushing prospects I've seen in years.

[Going Commando]

I hyped up Jonathan Taylor a couple of days ago so I've been going through his cut ups and I want to dial back my enthusiasm for him a little bit.  I'm wondering if someone else has a really positive take on him that can explain what they're seeing with him.

 

My initial read is Mark Ingram but not as nimble and not as prolific a receiver.  He gets all of the yards that are blocked for him, but not a whole lot more.  He has some breakaway speed when he's running downhill through a secondary, but he's not beating NFL defenses to the edge.  Good vision, good patience, efficient one-cut style.  Good solid build that looks very rugged and reminds me of Josh Jacobs's build.  But the explosiveness and creativity is not special.  Right now I'm thinking 2nd or more likely 3rd round talent and I'm wondering if someone can talk me into him deserving to go higher.  I liked Montgomery and Damien Harris more than I like Taylor.

[Going Commando]

More thoughts on Taylor, maybe Frank Gore makes sense as a comparison for him.  Although I don't think he's as explosive as Gore.  Lot of stylistic similarity there.  Maybe some Alfred Morris too but he's not as punishing as Morris was and he's more athletic.  I believe Taylor is a prototype Mike Shanahan style workhorse zone runner and he runs pretty well from the shotgun too.  He wins with vision and efficiency and can devastate a defense with his cutback ability.  Gets skinny though tight creases and finds late developing breakout lanes.  I see patience and start-stop ability with a pretty good second gear.  I see a frame that can handle 20+ carries a game.  I see solid but not elite contact balance.  Good body control.

 

But I don't see special explosiveness or creativity.  And I also see a consistent four or five yard push from his OL.  You just don't see a lot of creating behind the line of scrimmage.  The blocking and space are either there or it's a stop.  I also see some disturbingly loose ball carrying in the form of fumbles and botched hand-offs/pulls on reads.

[Snagletooth]

I was wondering how people would compare Jeudy with Saquon as far as rare generational type talent?

I'm by default OL/DL control the LOS but Jeudy is so sexy.

[clskinsfan]

I am a PSU guy. And Cam Brown is going to be a superstar at the next level. The guy is just all over the place.

[HoggLife]

Ruggs III for Alabama wow dude is FAST. Maybe another Tyreek Hill but looks like hes not as frail as Hill. 

[PartyPosse]

6 hours ago, Snagletooth said:

I was wondering how people would compare Jeudy with Saquon as far as rare generational type talent?

I'm by default OL/DL control the LOS but Jeudy is so sexy.

I don't trust that "once in a lifetime" label while still in college. I believe Leonard Fournette was also one of those. 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, HoggLife said:

Ruggs III for Alabama wow dude is FAST. Maybe another Tyreek Hill but looks like hes not as frail as Hill. 

 

Ruggs looks like a more souped up Parris Campbell in terms of speed as for YAC and can catch the deep ball, too like a D. Jax-Hill.  I am guessing he ends up a top 15 pick. 

 

But watching this game, I am also digging the often forgotten Alabama receiver.  Devonta Smith.  He has good hands and he's not as explosive as Ruggs or Jeudy but he's not a mile behind either.  The dude can do some YAC.    Late first, early 2nd type?

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

New PFF mock, they have 6 O lineman in the first round and 7 WRs.  PFF claims that their metrics are most on the money position wise on the O line when it comes to the draft.  I read that in an article during the off season.  I don't know how they judged their success-failures but they claimed they've been most on the money as to their O lineman picks in terms of matching the players they liked in college to NFL success.  The one thing about that though is the O line tends to have a higher success rate period in the early rounds compared to other positions. 

 

https://www.pff.com/news/pff-2020-nfl-mock-draft-tua-tagovailoa-chase-young-lead-the-way-at-nos-1-and-2

1. QB TUA TAGOVAILOA, ALABAMA | MIAMI DOLPHINS

It’s going to be like this until Tua shows any signs of slowing down. Through two weeks, the Alabama QB has a passing grade of 89.5 with three big-time throws and no turnover-worthy plays.

2. EDGE CHASE YOUNG, OHIO STATE | CINCINNATI BENGALS

The quarterback class after Tua has done little to inspire confidence in us. With that in mind, the Bengals bolster their defense with the blue-chip edge defender who already has three sacks and four other hurries on only 38 pass-rushing snaps in 2019.

3. WR JERRY JEUDY, ALABAMA | WASHINGTON REDSKINS

Jeudy dropped a couple of balls this past week against New Mexico State, but he’s being featured in the Alabama offense more heavily than ever before. He’s had double-digit targets in both games after only seeing that many targets in a game twice his first two seasons. 

4. CB JEFFREY OKUDAH, OHIO STATE | TAMPA BAY BUCCANEERS

Teams have been challenging Okudah more this year, and that hasn’t been a good thing for opponents. The Ohio State corner’s five coverage stops this season are already more than he had in all of 2018.

5. EDGE AJ ESPENESA, IOWA | NEW YORK JETS

He hasn’t exactly faced world-beaters in Miami (OH) and Rutgers, but Epenesa has still answered the bell on a bigger workload. He’s already got 10 pressures and is on pace 150-plus more snaps than he played last season (412).

6. OT ANDREW THOMAS, GEORGIA | NEW YORK GIANTS

As it stands right now, Thomas is the highest-graded offensive tackle in the country through two weeks. He’s allowed only one hurry on 39 pass-blocking snaps and has been even more physically dominant as a run-blocker.

7. S GRANT DELPIT, LSU | DETROIT LIONS

His ability to stick with receivers isn’t in question, but Delpit’s ability to bring them to the ground still is. He’s whiffed on two of his nine tackle attempts already this season after he missed 16 of 81 attempts in 2018. 

8. OT TRISTAN WIRFS, IOWA | ARIZONA CARDINALS

While Thomas is the highest-graded tackle in the nation so far, Wirfs is the second-highest. The fluidity with which he moves is almost unfair for a player that’s arguably the strongest in the country. 

9. WR JALEN REAGOR, TCU | OAKLAND RAIDERS

TCU’s only had one game so far (Arkansas Pine Bluff), and Reagor did himself no favors dropping two of his seven catchable targets (in his defense they were off-target throws). Reagor still made an Arkansas Pine Bluff corner look like he was running through mud on a deep post touchdown late in the third quarter.

10. QB JUSTIN HERBERT, OREGON | DENVER BRONCOS

Herbert finally comes off the board after yet another small performance in a big game. Of course, Herbert followed that up by torching Nevada, but that’s been his MO his entire career. With all the arm talent in the world, his refusal to take chances downfield is concerning. 

[Going Commando]

Interesting list, but I'm going to have to disagree with them on the placement of Delpit.  Top ten feels really high for him.  Skinny safety who struggles with physicality and isn't the best tackler?  He got exposed by Texas' big receivers and physical runners.

[Going Commando]

27 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I don't know how they judged their success-failures but they claimed they've been most on the money as to their O lineman picks in terms of matching the players they liked in college to NFL success.  The one thing about that though is the O line tends to have a higher success rate period in the early rounds compared to other positions. 

 

I think you're right that highly picked OLs tend to do very well in transitioning to the NFL.  I think part of that is they tend to be very physically developed with high strength levels compared to other positions.  But if PFF is right that their system is really good at projecting OLs to the NFL, I think it's because they clearly track consistency by charting all of the snaps so objectively.  That's a huge part of success for OLs.  They're not going to get overhyped by an OL making a spectacular block and then getting beat the next two snaps.  I think there is also less schematic nuance to OL play compared to other positions, so it's easier to put OL play and traits into context than for other positions.  And personally I think it's just easier to gauge athleticism at the OL position compared to other positions.  To me the guys who have NFL traits and speed and functional power and NFL aggressiveness are easy to see.

[Going Commando]

The left side of this Kentucky offensive line is pretty good.  The guard is big and he's a finisher.  Looks like he might be a leader for that offense.

[Going Commando]

Oklahoma is just playing pitch and catch.  Ceedee Lamb's option route running is so slick.  He's patient, he's explosive, and he's got the instinct for knowing what his QB is thinking.  He could be an absolute monster of a slot receiver.

[Going Commando]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

But watching this game, I am also digging the often forgotten Alabama receiver.  Devonta Smith

 

I was impressed by Smith too.  He showed out in the CFP last year too.  Jeudy is the star, but I think Smith is better and more versatile than Waddle and Ruggs and he's the real #2 of that group.  So fluid and athletic.  He's a Calvin Ridley type athlete but he's so skinny that I think he'll slip in the draft.  He's the one who I could see being a value pick.

[Skinsinparadise]

another mock, MMQ

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/09/11/nfl-mock-draft-2020-tua-tagovailoa-chase-young-jerry-jeudy?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=themmqb&utm_source=twitter.com

1. Miami Dolphins: Tua Tagovailoa, QB, Alabama

After moving on from Ryan Tannehill this offseason, the Dolphins signed Ryan Fitzpatrick in free agency and traded a second-rounder for Josh Rosen. Whether they tank for Tua, prefer Oregon’s Justin Herbert or have their sights set on Trevor Lawrence in 2021, Miami is positioning itself to draft the future franchise quarterback of its choice. Tagovailoa struggled at times against top programs Georgia and Clemson last season as he battled injury, but the Heisman favorite has elite accuracy and touch.

2. Washington Redskins: Chase Young, DE, Ohio State

With Nick Bosa missing most of the 2018 season, Young stepped up and finished with 9.5 sacks and 14.5 tackles for loss as a sophomore. Young has picked up where he left off last season with three sacks in Ohio State’s first two games this season. If the former five-star recruit continues to build upon his current trajectory, Young could follow in Bosa’s footsteps as a top-two pick in the 2020 NFL draft.

 

3. New York Giants: Jerry Jeudy, WR, Alabama

One offseason after trading away Odell Beckham Jr., the Giants draft a playmaker in the mold of their former star wideout. The 2018 Biletnikoff winner, Jeudy finished his sophomore campaign with 68 catches for 1,313 yards and 14 touchdowns last season and is off to an 18-240-4 start in two games this season.

4. Cincinnati Bengals: Justin Herbert, QB, Oregon

Andy Dalton will be entering a walk year in 2020 and if the Bengals own a top-four pick in next year’s draft, they could look for his long-term replacement. Herbert has all of the physical tools—prototypical size (6-6, 233), outstanding arm strength and plus mobility—and intangibles to develop into a franchise quarterback with more consistent play.

5. Arizona Cardinals: Andrew Thomas, OT, Georgia

Last season there were plenty of reasons for Josh Rosen to struggle under center as a rookie, but one major reason was Arizona’s poor offensive line play. In addition, starting left tackle D.J. Humphries will be an unrestricted free agent after the 2019 season. With experience at both tackle spots, Thomas could immediately slide to replace Humphries as Kyler Murray’s blindside protector.

6. Detroit Lions: Grant Delpit, S, LSU

Delpit will become the latest LSU defensive back to hear his name called on Day 1 of the NFL draft. The do-it-all, ball-hawking safety led the SEC last season with five interceptions to go along with five sacks, a forced fumble and fumble recovery.

7. Tampa Bay Buccaneers: A.J. Epenesa, DE, Iowa

Even though he wasn’t a full-time player, Epenesa racked up 10.5 sacks, 16.5 tackles for loss and four forced fumbles as a sophomore for the Hawkeyes in 2018. Jason Pierre-Paul (12.5 sacks), who had nearly one-third of Tampa Bay’s sacks last season (38), will be sidelined for most, if not all, of the 2019 season with a neck fracture. In addition he turns 31 on New Year's Day and will enter the final year of his current contract in 2020, making the defensive line a position of need for the Buccaneers.

8. Oakland Raiders: Jeffrey Okudah, CB, Ohio State

Okudah has the length, athleticism and coverage skills to develop into a shutdown corner at the next level. If there’s a knock on Okudah, it’s his lack of ball production, but there’s a good chance that he’ll be the first corner off the board in April.

Walker Little started all 12 games at left tackle for the Cardinal last season.

Larry Placido/Icon Sportswire via Getty Images

9. New York Jets: Walker Little, OT, Stanford

Left tackle Kelvin Beachum graded out as the team's best offensive lineman in 2018, per PFF, but the 30-year-old tackle will be an unrestricted free agent after this season, and it’s unlikely that he will be brought back. Perhaps the Jets view third-rounder Chuma Edoga, Sam Darnold’s collegiate teammate, as Beachum’s long-term replacement, but Little has a chance to be a top-10 pick next year.

10. Buffalo Bills: Laviska Shenault, WR, Colorado

Drafting Shenault would make life easier for quarterback Josh Allen, as he’s a dynamic player with the ball due to his speed and ability to break tackles in the open field. Shenault (6' 2", 225 pounds) had 86 catches for 1,011 yards and scored a total of 11 touchdowns (including five rushing scores) in 2018.

[Going Commando]

Don't want to get my hopes up for Chase Young.  But God Almighty, could you imagine having him rush from one side and Montez from the other?  That would be the most athletic edge tandem in NFL history.  Plus Payne and Allen and Io as interior weapons?  The possibilities would be endless.  You could run different stunts every third down and get home.  It'd be the kind of DL that wins a Superbowl.

 

The only problem is I don't think we pick that high.  Well, that and I'm not sure how we could afford to keep a front like that together.  That's the problem with having all your talent in one position group.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

3 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Don't want to get my hopes up for Chase Young.  But God Almighty, could you imagine having him rush from one side and Montez from the other?  That would be the most athletic edge tandem in NFL history.  Plus Payne and Allen and Io as interior weapons?  The possibilities would be endless.  You could run different stunts every third down and get home.  It'd be the kind of DL that wins a Superbowl.

 

The only problem is I don't think we pick that high.  Well, that and I'm not sure how we could afford to keep a front like that together.  That's the problem with having all your talent in one position group.

 

Yeah, I'd love Young.  Like you I am not convinced we will be picking that high.  Right now if I had to pick it would be Thomas or Young.  but I haven't really dived in enough to land on a strong opinion.   If I were a betting man, I'd think they might be thinking of trading down to recoup their 2nd rounder.  If they were wise, they'd trade Trent and recoup that pick and more without having to worry about trading down.