"Israel is for Jewish people only" - Netanyahu

[Burgold]

6 minutes ago, tshile said:

 There’s ethnic cleansing going on in Yemen and were providing the intelligence and weapons to do it. 

I have often said that the worst thing about the Holocaust is that there have been so many genocides since it. Still, this thread started with the notion that the notion of a Jewish State was "bad" or "obsolete." It was not about what role the US should play.

 

I contend that if Jews are not safe in the US (which I think is an overstatement as while I have faced discrimination and hostility I've only been physically accosted a couple of times because people found out I'm Jewish) then there probably still is a good reason for a Jewish State. That Jews are attacked more than twice as often as any other religious group here in the US ought to be unsettling.

[visionary]

 

 

 

Edited March 14, 2019 by visionary

[CousinsCowgirl84]

there will never be peace if one side has complete protection from the consequences of its arrogance.

2 hours ago, Burgold said:

I have often said that the worst thing about the Holocaust is that there have been so many genocides since it. Still, this thread started with the notion that the notion of a Jewish State was "bad" or "obsolete." It was not about what role the US should play.

 

OP asked “Why does the US support israel” not “why does israel exist”....

 

Edited March 14, 2019 by CousinsCowgirl84

[ClaytoAli]

22 hours ago, Destino said:

Stuff like that is why Jewish people feel they need their own state.  This jews control everything from behind the scenes thing, as you've posted, is classic antisemitism.  You've got to let that stuff go, its poison, and you definitely shouldn't post it here again. 

Which Hebrews are you talking about? How is talking about the control anti Semitic? It just perspective not hate.  Calm down, we are good.

[Burgold]

1 hour ago, ClaytoAli said:

Which Hebrews are you talking about? How is talking about the control anti Semitic? It just perspective not hate.  Calm down, we are good.

The idea that Jews are secretly in "control" is the anti-Semitic part. Jews are not control of the media. It is a stereotype that has been foisted by those who want to push an agenda. 

[Kurd Cudins]

It really bothers me that a bunch of countries decided to attack a country they didn't like, lost and are still ****ing about it so many years later. They didn't try to negotiate with Israel, they tried to destroy them. Instead, they got their asses handed to them and lost a considerable amount of land. They should feel fortunate Israel was kind enough to give some of it back.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

What did Israel do to earn a right to the land in a first place? Israel was created following ww2.... 

[Kurd Cudins]

4 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

What did Israel do to earn a right to the land in a first place? Israel was created following ww2.... 

It was given to the Jewish people by diplomatic order as reparations for the atrocities committed during WW2, but that's not in any way related to my previous comment. The point is the Arabs didn't use diplomacy, they used violence.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

I think it is all related, personally.  Arabs feel like their land was stolen from them. Violence has been the penultimate way for a nation state to get what it wants since they existed.  In any case, israel certainly has no high ground on use of violence.

[ClaytoAli]

2 hours ago, Burgold said:

The idea that Jews are secretly in "control" is the anti-Semitic part. Jews are not control of the media. It is a stereotype that has been foisted by those who want to push an agenda. 

Ok 👍

[Larry]

4 hours ago, Burgold said:

The idea that Jews are secretly in "control" is the anti-Semitic part. 

 

Right. This notion that someone has a disproportionate influence on the US government is just a bigoted fiction. 

 

37 states enacting legislation that places the economic interests of Israel above the constitutional rights of Americans just happened for no reason whatsoever. No special interest was involved in legislation designed solely to benefit a foreign country. 

[visionary]

I think there's a difference between pointing out that Israel and 'pro-Israel' Christian fundamentalist lobbyists have too much influence on politics and trotting out the 'Jews control the media (etc)' trope.  

Edited March 15, 2019 by visionary

[Burgold]

37 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Right. This notion that someone has a disproportionate influence on the US government is just a bigoted fiction. 

 

37 states enacting legislation that places the economic interests of Israel above the constitutional rights of Americans just happened for no reason whatsoever. No special interest was involved in legislation designed solely to benefit a foreign country. 

I expected better of you, Larry. I guess we can go through it a bit...

 

FOX News is controlled by Rupert Murdoch and family- Not Jewish

CNN is owned by Robert Turner and run by Jeff Zucker - Owner not Jewish, President Jewish

NBC & MSNBC run by Andy Lack- Not Jewish

ABC is owned by Disney run by James Goldston-- Not Jewish (Disney is definitely not Jewish controlled. Not sure about Goldston, but don't think he's Jewish)

Washington Post is owned by Jeff Bezos run by Benjamin Bradlee to be succeeded by Donald Graham- Not Jewish.

 

So no Larry. The US media is not a hegemony controlled and run by Jews.

 

Edit: and thank you @visionary

 

Edited March 15, 2019 by Burgold

[Larry]

22 minutes ago, visionary said:

I think there's a difference between pointing out that Israel and 'pro-Israel' Christian fundamentalist lobbyists have too much influence on politicis and trotting out the 'Jews control the media (etc)' trope.  

 

I'll agree that there's a sliver of daylight between those two statements. 

 

But now that we've established Israel lobbyists have too much influence on politics, let's look at the statement that triggered this thread:  AOC's statement that Congress favors Israel because they're paid to do so. 

 

Which one of those two statements you just made, do you think her statement was closer to?

[visionary]

 

[visionary]

 

[visionary]

 

[visionary]

 

[Koala]

On 3/14/2019 at 4:24 PM, Kurd Cudins said:

It was given to the Jewish people by diplomatic order as reparations for the atrocities committed during WW2, but that's not in any way related to my previous comment. The point is the Arabs didn't use diplomacy, they used violence.

Europeans gave away Arab land as reparations for crimes Europeans committed...How was ever gonna work, except by violent subjugation and oppression ofat  Arabs?  

 

And, if you think that Israel was founded on a basis of peace, and respect of international law...then I dont even know where to begin with you...

[twa]

Many Arabs were allies to those crimes were they not?

[visionary]

 

[Riggo-toni]

On 4/8/2019 at 2:08 PM, Koala said:

Europeans gave away Arab land as reparations for crimes Europeans committed...How was ever gonna work, except by violent subjugation and oppression of Arabs?  

 

 

Uh, no.

Jews began emigrating to Israel in the 19th century after events like Russian pogroms, the Dreyfus affair, and the election of a virulently anti-Semitic mayor in Vienna. They either settled in land that was largely uninhabited, or they bought land from primarily Ottoman landowners. In many cases Arab settlements followed Jewish ones because Zionist settlements brought economic/employment opportunities.

Jews accepted UN plans in 48 for partition. Arabs did not.  Newly independent Arab nations had territorial ambitions, and used the "Zionist question" as a pretense to expand their borders. Palestinians insisted that they were not Palestinian (which they considered a western term foisted upon them) but rather "Southern Syrians."

The surrounding countries rejected partition and invaded Jewish held areas. Arab propaganda broadcast lies about Jewish soldiers massacre and systematic rape of civilians, which, rather than strengthening Arab resolve, led to the Palestinians fleeing en masse with the expectation of being able to return after the Arab armies had driven the Jews into the sea.

Europeans didn't confiscate land to give Jews as reparations; in fact, many British soldiers embittered by their experiences with Irgun provided the Arabs with guns and ammo.

[Koala]

The U.N. was heavily influenced by Europe and America.  Not the Arabs, who as you pointed out, voted against the partitition.  So Europeans, through the U.N, and over Arab objections, voted to partition the land.  The partition itself was mostly due to a double game the Brits had been playing, promising both sides less than they could deliver.  They eventually pleaded innocent and threw the mess into the U.Ns lap. 

 

Much of this support from Europe was due to sympathy for Jews post 911, not because of any recognition of some sort of historical claim to Palestine or Israel or whatever you wanna call it.  They also calculated that, 20 years post fall of the Ottomans, the Arabs were too weal and divided to really do anything but object vociferously.  Arabia and its oil had already been secured, and it was established the Saudis could care less about Palestine.  That left Egypt and Syria.

 

Yes Immigrstion existed well before 1940s, but Zionism didnt really take hold and become a popular alternative until the rise of Nazism.  

 

Its important to note that Zionism was the brainchild of European Jews.  Sephardic or Arab Jews never really supported the creation the state of Israel, and to this day those divisions are noticeable in Israeli society and politics.

 

So, please continue your Orwellian revisions of history...

 

And to TWA, what on earth does that have to do with anything?  The Arab states were non-players in WWIi, they were inconsequential and remain so since the decline of the Ottomans.  Their role in WW2 and the holocaust is minimal, and it is laughable to try to compare their involvement to European involvement.

 

Seriously, you aint pinning the Holocaust on muslims or arabs.  People aint that dumb....yet...

[PeterMP]

Certainly, the partition, which was driven by the UN, which was driven by the US and European powers, committed land that belonged to non-Jews to the formation of the Jewish state.

 

[Koala]

18 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

Certainly, the partition, which was driven by the UN, which was driven by the US and European powers, committed land that belonged to non-Jews to the formation of the Jewish state

Of course it was.  But, some supporters of Israel are on a mission to re-write history.  The latest twist, apparently, is that the Arabs were at fault for the holocaust.  I would say that you cant make this **** up, but apparently you can...