ProFootballTalk : Zach Brown On This Organization

[Csup]

I enjoy hearing the players bad mouth the team.  The problem is, you can have 52 Redskins players complain about the team, but nothing will change with Beavis and Butthead running the team.

[desertbeagle85]

2 hours ago, Csup said:

I enjoy hearing the players bad mouth the team.  The problem is, you can have 52 Redskins players complain about the team, but nothing will change with Beavis and Butthead running the team.

 

Listen here don't compare Beavis and Butthead to these 2 morons. I actually like Beavis and Butthead. 😉

[Jericho]

11 hours ago, Stadium-Armory said:

Speaking of adding more fuel to the fire:

 

 

Click here for the rest of the article.

 

I was thinking about this the other day. Unless some team volunteers (which no one does unless you're the Cowboys), the criteria they use eliminated all but about 5 teams I believe. My list of eligible teams: NY Giants, Redskins, Lions, 49ers, and Raiders

 

Teams can make themselves ineligible by one of the following three methods:

1) Make the playoffs once in the last two years (19 teams eliminated): Cowboys, Eagles, Bears, Vikings, Falcons, Panthers, Saints, Seahawks, Rams, Bills, Patriots, Steelers, Ravens, Titans, Colts, Jaguars, Texans, Chiefs, and Chargers

2) Have a first year head coach (8 more): Packers, Buccaneers, Cardinals, Jets, Dolphins, Bengals, Browns, Broncos

3) And if that fails, you can bow out by being on the program in the last 10 years: everyone that qualified here already made themselves ineligible

 

So the question is, which of those teams makes the best story? I still think the Giants based on some star power (Beckham, Barkley) and the large market. But then again, there's the Mara magic factor

 

[SkinsFTW]

They'll probably pick the Raiders but wouldn't it be funny if the Redskins were chosen then they'd be forced to fire Jay just to keep from being in the spotlight with everybody hearing everything.

[Jericho]

Fire Gruden to avoid Hard Knocks? Not the worst strategy. Although you can always beg to be off it. The NFL gave the Browns a pass one year since they had Johnny Manziel and thought it would detract from his rehab. Then again, the Browns were on last year with Josh Gordon and whatever he does. Maybe the NFL hopes the Redskins aren't chosen to avoid highlighting Reuben Foster (who will surely get some suspension)

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I hope we're on Hard Knocks.  Might be the only interesting thing we do next year.

[Bonez3]

Typical of this generation... whine and cry and be surprised that you don't get a trophy for it but instead get fired.

 

Per Brown, did he do it wrong...Yes.

Was he wearing people out... Yes.

 

Grow up boys. They all signed up on day 1 as a team. He was given a warning. He would have had ample opportunity to express same thoughts to players and coaches behind the scenes. Learn to be a professional, thats more important than any 1 player or 'players that truly care'. Care all you want, if you're not a professional you're more likely to be detrimental to the goal. 

 

Swearinger was clearly becoming more detrimental to the goal. 

 

This team isn't good enough to think any player can't be cut. Further, Brown is wrong by stating what he is stating in this article. Again, completely unprofessional. I personally would cut him today. I get the look would be bad, but culture change is a slow process. Focus not on bad fires but good hires. Get me some true professionals in this locker room and we'll all forget about the DJ's and Browns real quick.

 

What's wrong with taking Belichek's play book and simply feeding the media nothing.

 

[joeken24]

One player led the league in tackles last year and probably would have been close to the leader this year. Another one led the team in turnovers and will probably go to the pro bowl. I suppose they don't know the first thing about hard work and should never speak on it, right?  Say something about the Redskins and they come out the wood works. The delusion in one that thinks this team is affected by reports is absurd IMO. Out of all the issues with picking soft tissue type players that play half their contract because of injury, a poor coaching staff, and the all encompassing curse that surrounds this organization, a player talking about accountability and hard work is a problem. 

In the meantime, this team was going to the playoffs only a month ago. Now the worst thing is about to happen in about 15 minutes. I see why the players are beginning to sour on the fan base. It seems like the fan base sides with the ownership and the coaching staff when the freakin' truth leaks out. So pardon me if I say.....

 

**** this team!

[joeken24]

12 hours ago, Bonez3 said:

Typical of this generation... whine and cry and be surprised that you don't get a trophy for it but instead get fired.

 

Per Brown, did he do it wrong...Yes.

Was he wearing people out... Yes.

 

Grow up boys. They all signed up on day 1 as a team. He was given a warning. He would have had ample opportunity to express same thoughts to players and coaches behind the scenes. Learn to be a professional, thats more important than any 1 player or 'players that truly care'. Care all you want, if you're not a professional you're more likely to be detrimental to the goal. 

 

Swearinger was clearly becoming more detrimental to the goal. 

 

This team isn't good enough to think any player can't be cut. Further, Brown is wrong by stating what he is stating in this article. Again, completely unprofessional. I personally would cut him today. I get the look would be bad, but culture change is a slow process. Focus not on bad fires but good hires. Get me some true professionals in this locker room and we'll all forget about the DJ's and Browns real quick.

 

What's wrong with taking Belichek's play book and simply feeding the media nothing.

 

So now the players have to worry about being cut. Plus they're losing. Jeez!!!

 

So I suppose this is a reasonable way to get players to understand the culture change:

Organization: Shut your mouth and lose, or else!!! I don't care!!

Player: But.....

GM: No no....I don't care if the coach is inept. Talk to him, not me.

Player: Coach, I just want you to hear what I'm saying. I'm seeing that offense in film doing this and......

Coach: I hear you, but we got our game plan. So just shut up and play because we're paying you.

 

Nice winning model.

 

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

12 hours ago, Bonez3 said:

Typical of this generation... whine and cry and be surprised that you don't get a trophy for it but instead get fired.

 

Per Brown, did he do it wrong...Yes.

Was he wearing people out... Yes.

 

Grow up boys. They all signed up on day 1 as a team. He was given a warning. He would have had ample opportunity to express same thoughts to players and coaches behind the scenes. Learn to be a professional, thats more important than any 1 player or 'players that truly care'. Care all you want, if you're not a professional you're more likely to be detrimental to the goal. 

 

Swearinger was clearly becoming more detrimental to the goal. 

 

This team isn't good enough to think any player can't be cut. Further, Brown is wrong by stating what he is stating in this article. Again, completely unprofessional. I personally would cut him today. I get the look would be bad, but culture change is a slow process. Focus not on bad fires but good hires. Get me some true professionals in this locker room and we'll all forget about the DJ's and Browns real quick.

 

What's wrong with taking Belichek's play book and simply feeding the media nothing.

 

 

This team isn't good enough to think that any player can be cut.  They need talent.  Everywhere.  At pretty much every position.  Airing grievances out in the press, probably not the best idea but it's certainly not the worst thing that a player can do.  Especially when they're telling us all something that we don't already know.  We know that this is a dysfunctional, poorly run team.  The players know it.  The media knows it.  Everyone knows it.  So what's the big deal with them speaking about it?  I agree that it's not the best move but it's also not the worst thing in the world.  The Redskins need to be more concerned about how to turn this thing around than whether or not some player is talking to the press.

 

On the flip side of that coin, the Redskins are so far removed from being a good team, DJ and ZB probably wouldn't be here for the next time the Redskins are a winner.  Of course you can say that about any player on the roster.  There's no one to build around here.  

 

There's nothing wrong with Belichick's playbook, but Belichick is a winner.  Belichick also happens to have the best quarterback ever to play the game as his leader, a guy who sets the tone for everyone in the locker room.  I wouldn't be surprised if Belichick doesn't have to keep an eye on player behavior because he's got Tom Brady.  And no one in the locker room wants to piss off Brady or disappoint him.  When you've got the greatest of all time as your undisputed leader, your job is infinitely more easier.  

 

But let's not pretend that Belichick hasn't had his share of player distractions.  I mean, what issues would you rather be concerned with, DJ and ZB or Aaron Hernandez?  

 

[desertbeagle85]

On 1/5/2019 at 12:40 AM, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

I hope we're on Hard Knocks.  Might be the only interesting thing we do next year.

 

 

Won't happen because we picked up Foster. The NFL doesn't want attention regarding that. So I don't the Skins will be on hardknocks.

[l7986]

On 1/4/2019 at 9:45 PM, Jericho said:

 

...

 

Personally I think they should pick the Raiders. Would make a good story with this being their last year in Oakland.

[Warhead36]

On 1/5/2019 at 12:40 AM, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

I hope we're on Hard Knocks.  Might be the only interesting thing we do next year.

Agreed.

 

We're gonna suck either way but it might as well be entertaining.

[Bonez3]

On 1/5/2019 at 11:37 PM, joeken24 said:

So now the players have to worry about being cut. Plus they're losing. Jeez!!!

 

So I suppose this is a reasonable way to get players to understand the culture change:

Organization: Shut your mouth and lose, or else!!! I don't care!!

Player: But.....

GM: No no....I don't care if the coach is inept. Talk to him, not me.

Player: Coach, I just want you to hear what I'm saying. I'm seeing that offense in film doing this and......

Coach: I hear you, but we got our game plan. So just shut up and play because we're paying you.

 

Nice winning model.

 

 

I think you might be overlooking the theme of the argument... which is professionalism.

 

The mock you describe is not what our players did, Let me show you how it went again:

 

Our Player: These coaches suck

Media: Tell us more, we don't care but millions will read and comment.

 

Very effective and professional model, yea?

 

(Mind you, he's already been warned not to do this and he himself later came out and said he was wrong. HE WAS WRONG)

[Bonez3]

On 1/6/2019 at 12:06 AM, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

This team isn't good enough to think that any player can be cut.  They need talent.  Everywhere.  At pretty much every position.  Airing grievances out in the press, probably not the best idea but it's certainly not the worst thing that a player can do.  Especially when they're telling us all something that we don't already know.  We know that this is a dysfunctional, poorly run team.  The players know it.  The media knows it.  Everyone knows it.  So what's the big deal with them speaking about it?  I agree that it's not the best move but it's also not the worst thing in the world.  The Redskins need to be more concerned about how to turn this thing around than whether or not some player is talking to the press.

 

On the flip side of that coin, the Redskins are so far removed from being a good team, DJ and ZB probably wouldn't be here for the next time the Redskins are a winner.  Of course you can say that about any player on the roster.  There's no one to build around here.  

 

There's nothing wrong with Belichick's playbook, but Belichick is a winner.  Belichick also happens to have the best quarterback ever to play the game as his leader, a guy who sets the tone for everyone in the locker room.  I wouldn't be surprised if Belichick doesn't have to keep an eye on player behavior because he's got Tom Brady.  And no one in the locker room wants to piss off Brady or disappoint him.  When you've got the greatest of all time as your undisputed leader, your job is infinitely more easier.  

 

But let's not pretend that Belichick hasn't had his share of player distractions.  I mean, what issues would you rather be concerned with, DJ and ZB or Aaron Hernandez?  

 

Belichek Benched his 'best DB player' in the Super Bowl. Argue the decision but they almost still won. And I'm certain it had nothing to do with Tom Brady. I'm pretty sure it had to do with insubordination. 

 

You say it's wrong but 'not the worse thing in the world'. It's wrong and the organization had enough cause to fire. It's almost doesn't warrant argument. We're talking about DJ Swearinger, not Sean Taylor, not Ronnie Lott.

 

Give me a break, we'll miss him like we'll miss Jeff Beck. Team has bigger fish to fry and it simply can't allow for players (WHO HAVE BEEN WARNED) to display constant insubordination. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

21 minutes ago, Bonez3 said:

Belichek Benched his 'best DB player' in the Super Bowl. Argue the decision but they almost still won. And I'm certain it had nothing to do with Tom Brady. I'm pretty sure it had to do with insubordination. 

 

You say it's wrong but 'not the worse thing in the world'. It's wrong and the organization had enough cause to fire. It's almost doesn't warrant argument. We're talking about DJ Swearinger, not Sean Taylor, not Ronnie Lott.

 

Give me a break, we'll miss him like we'll miss Jeff Beck. Team has bigger fish to fry and it simply can't allow for players (WHO HAVE BEEN WARNED) to display constant insubordination. 

 

Give me a break, comparing Bill Belichick to anything the Redskins have done over the years is an apples and doughnuts comparison.  

[Bonez3]

26 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Give me a break, comparing Bill Belichick to anything the Redskins have done over the years is an apples and doughnuts comparison.  

I'm comparing him to what the Redskins haven't done... But firing Swearinger was a good start

[Spaceman Spiff]

19 minutes ago, Bonez3 said:

I'm comparing him to what the Redskins haven't done... But firing Swearinger was a good start

 

The difference here is that the Redskins aren't winners.  

 

Belichick can do whatever he wants, pretty much, cause they win.  And it works.  

 

The Redskins don't win.  What they do doesn't work.  Cutting DJ Swearinger because the Patriots enforce what you think is insubordination rules (no proof, your perception) is like saying I expect a fifth grader to keep up with Usain Bolt.  

 

So we can talk about whether Swearinger getting cut was some great, brilliant move or if it's a case of shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic.  It's not even the Titanic anymore, it's way down on the bottom of the ocean floor.  Personally, I was happy that DJ Swearinger was a guy that cared.  

 

And if we're going to really hype up insubordination rules, we should probably also include Nicholson and M. Foster for being insubordinate in relation to professional conduct rules.  But you know, Swearinger...BLARRRRRRRGGGGGHHH!! 

[goskins10]

@Spaceman Spiff @Bonez3  Interesting discussion. Not sure it's that black and white. 

 

I get we don't have enough talent to be cutting people. The cupboard is pretty bare. And while DJ has some weaknesses, he had desire and drive. He at least wanted to win and was a team leader. He had a lot of passion for the game - something I see as missing on this team. I like Jay but one of my complaints about him is a lack of passion from the team at times.

 

However, at some point you have to start driving the culture you want - and going to the press is not the right way to air concerns. I am all for discipline in the locker room. And yes I think you can use BB as an example because is that not what we should aspire to? To be in a position to bench our best player to maintain focus and discipline? I do agree that this team could not be further from that model. But shouldn't we try to get there? 

 

However (let me flop again...) Considering all the other garbage they have allowed and even done themselves, I find it amazing that they chose DJ as the line in the sand. Shows the complete lack of vision. 

 

 

[Bonez3]

11 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

The difference here is that the Redskins aren't winners.  

 

Belichick can do whatever he wants, pretty much, cause they win.  And it works.  

 

The Redskins don't win.  What they do doesn't work.  Cutting DJ Swearinger because the Patriots enforce what you think is insubordination rules (no proof, your perception) is like saying I expect a fifth grader to keep up with Usain Bolt.  

 

So we can talk about whether Swearinger getting cut was some great, brilliant move or if it's a case of shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic.  It's not even the Titanic anymore, it's way down on the bottom of the ocean floor.  Personally, I was happy that DJ Swearinger was a guy that cared.  

 

And if we're going to really hype up insubordination rules, we should probably also include Nicholson and M. Foster for being insubordinate in relation to professional conduct rules.  But you know, Swearinger...BLARRRRRRRGGGGGHHH!! 

I'm not making a blanket statement and my point was not 'the Patriot way'. 

 

My point was about professionalism. I used an example of how Belichek feeds the media nothing. Other subsequent comments extrapolated more into the Patriots as a whole and I commented from there.

 

Make no mistake, this is about professionalism and not organizations. Although, the Patriots do it right. Is winning a coincidence or consequence?

 

Good hires >>> Bad Fires

[Spaceman Spiff]

3 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

@Spaceman Spiff @Bonez3  Interesting discussion. Not sure it's that black and white. 

 

I get we don't have enough talent to be cutting people. The cupboard is pretty bare. And while DJ has some weaknesses, he had desire and drive. He at least wanted to win and was a team leader. He had a lot of passion for the game - something I see as missing on this team. I like Jay but one of my complaints about him is a lack of passion from the team at times.

 

However, at some point you have to start driving the culture you want - and going to the press is not the right way to air concerns. I am all for discipline in the locker room. And yes I think you can use BB as an example because is that not what we should aspire to? To be in a position to bench our best player to maintain focus and discipline? I do agree that this team could not be further from that model. But shouldn't we try to get there? 

 

However (let me flop again...) Considering all the other garbage they have allowed and even done themselves, I find it amazing that they chose DJ as the line in the sand. Shows the complete lack of vision. 

 

 

 

I bolded the point I agree with the most.  That's exactly what I was trying to say, you said it better.

 

And I agree, we should try to get there.  Absolutely.  And I like Jay, but I don't think he's the guy to do it.  Bruce sure as **** ain't the guy to craft a winner and help instill some of that culture.  And there's no commanding presence amongst the players to do it, either.  

 

Team needs a complete overhaul from top to bottom.   Anything else, IMO, is shuffling the chairs on the Titanic.   

 

2 minutes ago, Bonez3 said:

I'm not making a blanket statement and my point was not 'the Patriot way'. 

 

My point was about professionalism. I used an example of how Belichek feeds the media nothing. Other subsequent comments extrapolated more into the Patriots as a whole and I commented from there.

 

Make no mistake, this is about professionalism and not organizations. Although, the Patriots do it right. Is winning a coincidence or consequence?

 

Good hires >>> Bad Fires

 

We can agree to disagree, it's about professionalism in organizations.   The Redskins aren't professional, they don't win.  Would being professional make them a winner?  Hard to say, but it couldn't hurt.

 

I just think that what Swearinger did wasn't the worst thing in the world, especially for a team that was spiraling out of control.  @goskins10 said it right, drawing the line in the sand with what he did was weird.  

 

 

[Bonez3]

I would even go as far to say it's not surprising DJ was the line in the sand. There were reports he was wearing thin in the locker room, he bucked management's request to not be public and he has a history of being fired.

 

This is hardly a surprise. I get 'but, HE CARED'. If that's enough to be on an NFL team and that's the mark the Redskins as an organization are shooting for, to bad. It really is to bad.

 

Getting players that 'care' should not be the hardest evaluation search. DJ cared, but he also probably produced diminishing returns and simply wasn't a team player. Not that he didn't care for the team, but the way he tried to encourage and rally actually was detrimental.

 

It's hard to fathom. Personally, Foster needs to be cut on performance alone and ZB at the very least should be on zero tolerance at this point. It wouldn't be about DJ for me, but the mission. 

 

Look, I hate the management of this organization. It's a downright embarrassment. But I wholeheartedly support this move and more like it

[goskins10]

38 minutes ago, Bonez3 said:

I would even go as far to say it's not surprising DJ was the line in the sand. There were reports he was wearing thin in the locker room, he bucked management's request to not be public and he has a history of being fired.

 

This is hardly a surprise. I get 'but, HE CARED'. If that's enough to be on an NFL team and that's the mark the Redskins as an organization are shooting for, to bad. It really is to bad.

 

Getting players that 'care' should not be the hardest evaluation search. DJ cared, but he also probably produced diminishing returns and simply wasn't a team player. Not that he didn't care for the team, but the way he tried to encourage and rally actually was detrimental.

 

It's hard to fathom. Personally, Foster needs to be cut on performance alone and ZB at the very least should be on zero tolerance at this point. It wouldn't be about DJ for me, but the mission. 

 

Look, I hate the management of this organization. It's a downright embarrassment. But I wholeheartedly support this move and more like it

 

Let me maybe clear something up. I personally have no problem with them releasing DJ - for all the reasons you stated and then some. My point is I am finding it difficult to follow their logic on why now, why him when they had other better opportunities (at least IMO). Of course there is my answer, logic and this FO are not synonymous. 

[Bonez3]

38 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Let me maybe clear something up. I personally have no problem with them releasing DJ - for all the reasons you stated and then some. My point is I am finding it difficult to follow their logic on why now, why him when they had other better opportunities (at least IMO). Of course there is my answer, logic and this FO are not synonymous. 

It was clearly, 'we're on the coaches side' move. It wasn't beneficial to the organization and essentially cut-off-nose-despite-face situation. 

 

I think trading him for a ham sandwich or release at end of year sends same message. So, yes, the FO are morons. But yes, releasing DJ was well justified. But, not like it set the franchise back 3 years. The timing of the move has little overall impact on the 'meter', therefore I think it was for the emphasis on the move

[joeken24]

13 hours ago, Bonez3 said:

I think you might be overlooking the theme of the argument... which is professionalism.

 

The mock you describe is not what our players did, Let me show you how it went again:

 

Our Player: These coaches suck

Media: Tell us more, we don't care but millions will read and comment.

 

Very effective and professional model, yea?

 

(Mind you, he's already been warned not to do this and he himself later came out and said he was wrong. HE WAS WRONG)

Don't mistake professionalism for institutional ism. Staying professional does not mean staying quiet when professionalism is compromised by egos and stubbornness behind closed doors. Blame it on the media this time if you want (and believe me, I'm the first to get on the media). But in this case, the Redskins' so called organization does not get my benefit of the doubt. Its poorly run on and off the field. To be quiet about the problems, IMO is unprofessional and a part of the problem. Speaking of...have you heard from that professional GM? Have you heard from that professional coach that laughed when ask if changes will be made. How about all the games where it was obvious the coaches were unprepared? Was that professional? Spare me the anecdotal phrases we all grew up to know. I for one believe all those catchy phrase are just bull**** made for those that would have us bound in whatever institution(s) you and I was bred in. I'm not professional......I'm a reasonable free thinker.