Riggo#44 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 8 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: I started to, but could not formulate a post that sounded like believable satire and not just idiotic trolling. Aka "Pulling a Slateman" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 26 minutes ago, volsmet said: How is that the flip side? You need more starters, but it is easier to get starters. There's a lot more guys starting and that even turn into good players in the NFL that are taken out of the first 2 rounds of the NFL draft then the NBA. And people keep forgetting Grunfeld didn't just build a team that was a regular playoff team once. He's done it twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcl05 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 I think there is far, far more variation in standings year-to-year in the NFL than the NBA. In the NBA, one can pretty much predict the contenders at the beginning of the year. It is far more likely that a team will surprise in the NFL than the NBA. That suggests to me that even a middling NFL front office might luck into some playoff success once a decade or so. It takes a pretty putrid effort to be as consistently hopeless as the Skins have been. In the NBA, a team can go from terrible to great fast with the acquisition of one or two great players, but how often does that really happen? It's not very common - mainly because there are not enough great players out there. All that is to say, I think Bruce is more incompetent. Though I wouldn't want either to watch my houseplants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 39 minutes ago, PeterMP said: The flip side of that is the NFL teams regularly find starters in the 4th and 5th round of the draft. There isn't even a 3rd round of the NBA draft. Plenty of teams end up with high picks and end up no where. I think the term "regularly" is an overkill. In 2014, 60% of the starters were rounds 1-3, 26% rounds 4-7 and 14% UDFA. Gotta keep in mind that some of those players are starting due to injuries to those higher than them on the depth during training camp, suspensions, etc. And lets not overlook that just because a player is a late round pick (at certain positions) and starting for one team that they would be starting for the other 31 teams. There is definitely more depth in the NFL draft than the NBA draft, but there is also like 1696 total positions to keep filled (excluding practice squad). https://www.forbes.com/sites/prishe/2015/05/22/tracking-nfl-draft-efficiency-how-contingent-is-success-to-draft-position/#159b5aa7495b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 1 hour ago, volsmet said: Wizards forums & Leonard was the most popular pick on each of them. Are you really suggesting that if Leonard would have gone to the Wizards at 6 the out come would have been the same as going 15th to San Antonio, where there wasn't pressure on start right away, the out come would have been the same? Leonard's considered a classic example of the development program of the Spurs. To suggest that he'd be the player that he became going to another team as a higher pick where there would have been pressure to play and perform right away is laughable. And oh, by the way you do realize that he forced his way out of San Antonio making San Antonio take much less than his true value back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 8 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said: I think the term "regularly" is an overkill. In 2014, 60% of the starters were rounds 1-3, 26% rounds 4-7 and 14% UDFA. Gotta keep in mind that some of those players are starting due to injuries to those higher than them on the depth during training camp, suspensions, etc. And lets not overlook that just because a player is a late round pick (at certain positions) and starting for one team that they would be starting for the other 31 teams. There is definitely more depth in the NFL draft than the NBA draft, but there is also like 1696 total positions to keep filled (excluding practice squad). https://www.forbes.com/sites/prishe/2015/05/22/tracking-nfl-draft-efficiency-how-contingent-is-success-to-draft-position/#159b5aa7495b Nearly 25% seems pretty regularly to me. And the flip side of your point is that there almost certainly later round picks on good teams that don't start that would start for some not as good teams, and there's almost certainly people starting over better players because of contract and drafting positions. It works both ways. And it even happens at the level of great players. You can make the argument that the best player in the the last 40 years at the most important position in the NFL was taken in the 6th round. There's not a reasonable argument that a guy taken even in the 2nd half of the first round is one of the best players in the NBA in the last 40 years. The leagues are difference and your strategy for getting better has to be different. In the NBA, you need to value high first round picks differently than in the NFL. But that doesn't make it easier to get good in the NBA than the NFL. It makes it different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 38 minutes ago, PeterMP said: Nearly 25% seems pretty regularly to me. And the flip side of your point is that there almost certainly later round picks on good teams that don't start that would start for some not as good teams, and there's almost certainly people starting over better players because of contract and drafting positions. It works both ways. And it even happens at the level of great players. You can make the argument that the best player in the the last 40 years at the most important position in the NFL was taken in the 6th round. There's not a reasonable argument that a guy taken even in the 2nd half of the first round is one of the best players in the NBA in the last 40 years. The leagues are difference and your strategy for getting better has to be different. In the NBA, you need to value high first round picks differently than in the NFL. But that doesn't make it easier to get good in the NBA than the NFL. It makes it different. Back to the point, it's easier to build an NBA playoff team than it is an NFL playoff team. You hit on one or two players in FA, draft or both and it completely changes the dynamic of your team. Can't do that in the NFL as easily, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Why are we talking about philosophy like Ernie following it? He traded a top 5 pick for two role players a couple years ago that were gone within a couple seasons. He has done some seriously dumb **** that has crippled our franchise that doesnt seem as noticeable because we had Wall and Beal, but its f'n obvious if you follow this team and offseason every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Allen gave up 3 first round picks and a high 2nd rounder for a player with obvious injury concerns that ended up having one good season (partially due to Allen not providing a not-dangerous playing surface). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: Allen gave up 3 first round picks and a high 2nd rounder for a player with obvious injury concerns that ended up having one good season. That's was for a franchise QB, even if we shouldn't of done, the expectation was for him to be that. Why the hell would you trade a top 5 pick for two backup players k owing they will be backup players? That's an incredible INTENTIONAL waste of resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: That's was for a franchise QB, even if we shouldn't of done, the expectation was for him to be that. Why the hell would you trade a top 5 pick for two backup players k owing they will be backup players? That's an incredible INTENTIONAL waste of resources. The coach at the time did not think much of him. Which is why he insisted on using the 4th round pick the same year on a different QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metalhead Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 6 hours ago, Renegade7 said: I actually had to step back and listen yall because initial reaction was Ernie all day. I'm staying with that for two main reasons: despite Bruce's failures, hes gotten us out the habit of trying to win the offseason and focus on draft picks. Ernie isnt any better at building a team then Allen is, but Ernie has zero value in draft picks and constantly has us in some cap hell where we cant get over the top. He hit on Wall and Beal, good for him, but those were first and third overall picks. Hes failed at everything else putting anything around them to get over the top. So I did some digging, a little research and reading and realized this: the Wizards do not have a second round pick for the next four seasons. They will not have multiple picks until five years from now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 8 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: The coach at the time did not think much of him. Which is why he insisted on using the 4th round pick the same year on a different QB. I'll be honest with you, no one that made that choice wants to take responsibility for it, so my position has been to blame all of them. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2016/05/18/mike-shanahan-wants-you-to-know-that-the-rgiii-trade-wasnt-mike-shanahans-fault/?utm_term=.4402111fad93 I never bought Shanahans I'm in full control but they sold the farm out from under me stance. As you can see him gushing with joy the further you get into the article until it officially blows up in his face. Or course it was a bad trade, Griffin was a bust. But the intent was to make him into a franchise QB. Ernies trade was never with intent to make Foye or Miller cornerstones of the franchise, it was his inability to get depth and trying to make up for it by giving away draft picks like they dont matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 I agree that Shanhan is shady AF, but it all feeds in to the OBVIOUS conclusion that this franchise is completely dysfunctional. Ernie makes bad basketball decisions. Allen oversees a circus of assholes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 10 minutes ago, Metalhead said: So I did some digging, a little research and reading and realized this: the Wizards do not have a second round pick for the next four seasons. They will not have multiple picks until five years from now. And people wonder why we have no bench and nothing around Wall and Beal to take us over the top. Also have 7th highest payroll in NBA, we were 5th last year. 3 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: I agree that Shanhan is shady AF, but it all feeds in to the OBVIOUS conclusion that this franchise is completely dysfunctional. Ernie makes bad basketball decisions. Allen oversees a circus of assholes. Guess that begs the question of how bad does Ernie have to be to completely negate an owner whos other four teams went to the finals of their respective leagues this year, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 13 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: Guess that begs the question of how bad does Ernie have to be to completely negate an owner whos other four teams went to the finals of their respective leagues this year, right? Yes. In fact, the only argument in Ernie's favor that I will accept is that Allen is just doing Snyder's awful bidding while Ernie works for a bona fide DC hero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 2 hours ago, PleaseBlitz said: Allen gave up 3 first round picks and a high 2nd rounder for a player with obvious injury concerns that ended up having one good season (partially due to Allen not providing a not-dangerous playing surface). Pretty sure that move was 100% Snyder mandated. Bruce being the hand puppet he is was the one that had to the dirty work. Not excusing all the other stupid **** he's done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Grunfeld is a bad GM. Allen oversees the most dysfunctional mess of a franchise in all of sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 Earnie is not incompetent. The fans are sick of him and his plans haven’t worked out and it’s time for him to go. But he’s not incompetent. Allen is incompetent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 I’m just going to lie to my kids and tell them we’re from Boston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 34 minutes ago, tshile said: Earnie is not incompetent. The fans are sick of him and his plans haven’t worked out and it’s time for him to go. But he’s not incompetent. Allen is incompetent. Ernie is absolutely incompetent 49 minutes ago, Warhead36 said: Grunfeld is a bad GM. Allen oversees the most dysfunctional mess of a franchise in all of sports. again, 2 players almost literally killed each other in the Wizards lockerroom, one of whom is currently serving jail time for murder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 1 minute ago, StillUnknown said: Ernie is absolutely incompetent again, 2 players almost literally killed each other in the Wizards lockerroom, one of whom is currently serving jail time for murder They can't hear you, they are more mad at the Redskins then the Wizards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 Ernie by a wide margin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 5 hours ago, PleaseBlitz said: I started to, but could not formulate a post that sounded like believable satire and not just idiotic trolling. My attempt for GMBM started with, "Sure, he won the Stanley Cup almost immediately, but" and then I couldn't keep going. I don't even know what the BM stands... In my opinion, that's GREAT news. Means he isn't messing up. I even followed the Caps off-season moves after they won the cup just to see how they handled success and whatnot. Again, have no clue who the GM is, but the Caps are by far the best ran team in the league. Which should be another point AGAINST Ernie somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 4 hours ago, Metalhead said: So I did some digging, a little research and reading and realized this: the Wizards do not have a second round pick for the next four seasons. They will not have multiple picks until five years from now. Uh, hello? They just got the Cavs 2nd round in 2021 in the trade the other day. And they might get Atlanta's 2019 2nd round pick depending on where it falls, but probably not. 5 hours ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said: Back to the point, it's easier to build an NBA playoff team than it is an NFL playoff team. You hit on one or two players in FA, draft or both and it completely changes the dynamic of your team. Can't do that in the NFL as easily, imo. It is true you only need a few player in the NBA to get better, but: 1. It is hard to be really bad in the NFL because of the parity in the NFL. 2. You can get good (and even great) players from more places (e.g. later in the draft). The net result is things balance out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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