We won a Super Bowl with a crappy Offense & a top ranked Defense

[SkinsFTW]

As bad as you might want to think the 1982 offense was, it was still ranked 12th, and scored 21.1pts a game. Only 9 games.

 

The 2018 offense through 7 games is ranked 25th scoring even less 20.9pts per game. Despite all the advantages an offense has today they are scoring less.

 

The other thing not mentioned is that the 1982 Defense was ranked 1st in the NFL allowing only 14.2pts per game, and only over 17 points twice counting the postseason. 6 times held teams to 10 or under in 13 total games counting the postseason. 

 

This team hasn't held any team to under 10 since Week 1 vs Az. 

 

I think they have a ways to go.

[Voice_of_Reason]

21 minutes ago, Skinsfan1311 said:

Yeah, Doc is tiring, and the shtick is old. 

Not sure how old you are, or how much you remember about that season, but we, as fans, were pissed, pretty much every week. It was a tense time.

If we could only push the ball downfield, I think we would all feel better.

I was 6.  So not much.  But I have watched as much of it as is available since the advent of thre interwebs

[hail2skins]

Again, not living down here at the time, I guess I'm a bit curious about: what were expectations for the Skins heading into 1982? I know we had won 7 of the last 9 in 81, but were people really expecting greatness from us the next year? Dallas was still seen as the class of the division. Philly and NY played each other in the 81 playoffs... I think Vermeil retired after the season. Cards were still the Cards, I guess (was this the Neil Lomax era?).

 

I remember watching the game on TV at RFK against Philly which took us to 4-0 and put us on the cover of SI. Had to watch the next game at a neighbors house, as he got the NY channels that televised the Dallas game. Was so mad when Danny White ran a fake punt from deep in Dallas territory to essentially salt the game away. I could see after that game people having doubts about our ability to hang with the big boys. But over the rest of 82 and the next decade, things worked out!

[Voice_of_Reason]

42 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah that's fair. I'd say the '85 Bears defense was even better so the '00 Ravens would be 2nd place. 

I don’t go back far enough to remember the steel curtain defenses of the 1970’s, but those entire defenses are in the HOF basically.  And they won 4 SBs in 6 years.

 

There are a bunch of historical defenses going back through the SB era.  

 

The ravens are in that group.  I think  general consensus is the 85 bears are tops on the list.  2000 Ravens are on the list.  That Seahawks defense is on the list, as is the Denver defense that won the SB when Peyton couldn’t throw more than 5 yards.  The 1970 Steel Curtain defense is up there.  Maybe that Bucs team with Sapp and company.  

 

Not to diminish the 2000 Ravens, it’s just there are others that are also historically great.

[Skinsfan1311]

12 minutes ago, hail2skins said:

Again, not living down here at the time, I guess I'm a bit curious about: what were expectations for the Skins heading into 1982? I know we had won 7 of the last 9 in 81, but were people really expecting greatness from us the next year? 

They weren't very high.

The rookie head coach, ? did not get off to a great start, but finished pretty strong.

4 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I don’t go back far enough to remember the steel curtain defenses of the 1970’s, but those entire defenses are in the HOF basically.  And they won 4 SBs in 6 years.

 

There are a bunch of historical defenses going back through the SB era.  

 

The ravens are in that group.  I think  general consensus is the 85 bears are tops on the list.  2000 Ravens are on the list.  That Seahawks defense is on the list, as is the Denver defense that won the SB when Peyton couldn’t throw more than 5 yards.  The 1970 Steel Curtain defense is up there.  Maybe that Bucs team with Sapp and company.  

 

Not to diminish the 2000 Ravens, it’s just there are others that are also historically great.

It's no contest.

The '85 Bears.

[Skinsinparadise]

45 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

 

Each week I see signs if them getting better. Josh is starting to get move involved. Alex is getting some chemistry with Richardson. Some of it is getting guys back from injury. CT was in last week but not sure he was 100%. Could use Crowder back. The more time they have together I believe we will see the confidence and trust between them all get better. 

 

 

According to Craig Hoffman they had a big week digesting the passing game and trying to figure out what's wrong with it including having a special meeting to try to address the cause to fix it. 

 

They are going up against an atrocious pass defense.  And Jay seems to have added a code red component to fixing things this week.  So hopefully the combination of this adds to a positive impact. 

 

Maurice Harris might be sneaking below the radar some as a possibility to help.  Alex has been missing him some, the wide open potential TD in NO and according to if I recall Cooley he was open for a big play last week but Alex didn't throw to him.  So maybe he has a break out game.   Doctson is quietly emerging.  He's not just catching some balls, but he's also emerging as a really good run blocker.   Some like to say Doctson is soft but considering he's catching the ball in traffic and run blocking well those aren't the characteristics of someone who plays soft.

[hail2skins]

The 86 Bears actually gave up less points than the 85 Bears. And who beat them in the paloffs that year ?

[Voice_of_Reason]

8 minutes ago, hail2skins said:

The 86 Bears actually gave up less points than the 85 Bears. And who beat them in the paloffs that year ?

You can’t be historical if you can’t close the deal.

 

The 2007 Patriots were basically one helmet assisted catch away from being the undisputed best team of all time.  Now they’re kindof a footnote.  

[Stefanskins]

this is a BIG game...if we can get to 6-2 all we will need to play is .500 ball the rest of the way with a split with the eagles and we are definitely playoff bound...once in the playoffs anything can happen...beat the vikes, then the rams and then the chiefs in the superbowl would be magical retribution...

27 minutes ago, Skinsfan1311 said:

They weren't very high.

The rookie head coach, ? did not get off to a great start, but finished pretty strong.

It's no contest.

The '85 Bears.

yeah...never FEARED a defense like the 85 Bears...although, LT with the Giants would come close some seasons...

[Voice_of_Reason]

17 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

According to Craig Hoffman they had a big week digesting the passing game and trying to figure out what's wrong with it including having a special meeting to try to address the cause to fix it. 

It’s really not that hard to see what’s wrong with the passing game.  Fixing it will be harder.

 

I think a lot of it just comes down to attention to detail.  Cooley has pointed out a lot of Issues with route depths.  Alex not trusting the receivers to be where they’re supposed to be, and also being inaccurate at times.

 

To me it seems as though he’s a beat slow to just about everything. 

 

Get the attention to detail detail on routes and reads better and I think things improve dramatically, and can improve quickly.

 

I do find it somewhat amuxov we’re going into week 9 and NOW it’s a code red feel to it...  like 8 weeks late...

 

 

[hail2skins]

14 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

You can’t be historical if you can’t close the deal.

 

The 2007 Patriots were basically one helmet assisted catch away from being the undisputed best team of all time.  Now they’re kindof a footnote.  

The debates about whether the 83 Skins team or the 91 Skins team was better was interesting. The 91 team I feel was more well rounded on both sides of the ball, but tend to be forgotten a bit because of that lack of a single on the field playoff moment like the other Gibbs teams.

 

The current Patriots dynasty has won 5 out of 8 Super Bowl appearances, but there's little question that the 2007 team is the best of those teams, and likely one of the best of all time. They just picked the wrong day to have a bad game, like the 83 Skins and 13 Broncos.

[Darth Tater]

In 1982 offensive holding had only been legal at the NFL level for 5 years and the reverse was true for defense, it had only been illegal for about 5 years. You still had competing offensive philosophies.  365 organized football at the was not a thing and, even at the NFL level, many players actually saw football as a part-time job that was mostly a well-paid hobby. Offensive holding was still illegal at the college level, so you had to teach it to guys coming in and even many of your vets still weren't good at it. Much of the basics that a guy coming into the Pros in the late 70s, early 80s was less than what a HS player is supposed to know now.

[mistertim]

12 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

It’s really not that hard to see what’s wrong with the passing game.  Fixing it will be harder.

 

I think a lot of it just comes down to attention to detail.  Cooley has pointed out a lot of Issues with route depths.  Alex not trusting the receivers to be where they’re supposed to be, and also being inaccurate at times.

 

To me it seems as though he’s a beat slow to just about everything. 

 

Get the attention to detail detail on routes and reads better and I think things improve dramatically, and can improve quickly.

 

I do find it somewhat amuxov we’re going into week 9 and NOW it’s a code red feel to it...  like 8 weeks late...

 

 

 

I think it's a combination of attention to detail and making sure the routes are run correctly and Alex just being his usual super conservative self. I can't even count the number of times I've seen him take a snap, almost let the ball loose on his first or second read but then pull it back and end up checking down. Now, obviously on some of those his first and/or second read is simply too well covered or maybe the guy didn't run a good route...that absolutely happens. But I've seen him do it SO often that there's no way guys are running a bad route or are completely blanketed EVERY time it happens. Unfortunately I'm just not sure that it's something that, at this point in his career, Alex is really going to change. The only time he's really let it rip a bunch is when he had a game breaking elite threat in Tyreek Hill who consistently had 2-3 steps, if not more, on the DB covering him. And in the NFL that is wide open.

[Nerm]

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

D. Hall on the NFL Network just said which a bunch of others have said, too.  Tomorrow is a good test because they are facing a team that score a lot of points via the air.  The last three opponents not so much.  So ball control versus an explosive passing offense -- that formula didn't work against NO but tomorrow is a good test to see if NO was an anomaly. 

 

I'm still not 100% sold on the Skins D.  I agree that the Falcons game will tell us a lot.  I remember reading stories after the Saints game.  The Saints punter flew in his college kicking coach to the game as a thank you to him... Then the Saints didn't punt the whole game.  Kind of a funny story.  Even against Dallas, the Skins stacked the box to stop Zeke, it worked, but Prescott had his best passing yard game of the season... It seems like a good defensive performance, unless you see how bad Dallas usually looks offensively.  The Cowboys line has been pretty bad without Fredrick, but their reputation makes people think they are still above average.  I think this coming game is a good measuring stick for the Skins.

[Ashburn Dave]

A great defense and good running game can take you deep into the playoffs especially outside in the cold so yes there is always hope with this type of team....................if you believe in Jay.  I've seen too many bad game time decisions from Jay over the years to fully believe that he's capable of coaching a champion.  I'm up for the ride but just have a feeling we're going to hear "iceberg dead ahead" soon.  AP could go down anytime and Alex is not ready to pass us there yet.

 

Sure hope Jay proves me wrong.

[Skinsinparadise]

53 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

I do find it somewhat amuxov we’re going into week 9 and NOW it’s a code red feel to it...  like 8 weeks late...

 

 

 

Clearly, they've been trying to fix it week after week, Jay's talked about it not being there and being a work in progress for weeks now.  I've heard enough from beat guys to be convinced that Jay/coaching stuff and FO are all surprised at how long the adjustment has taken Alex.  So the code red vibe to me I am gathering is driven by going after it more aggressively -- whatever that means?  

 

I heard Doug talk about them looking at two WRs before the trade deadline but didn't want to give up what the teams were asking for.  We got Crowder still out.  Richardson is banged up and might not even pay.  Quinn I read will be eligible to play against the Texans.  The Wr situation isn't hot.  Still, surprised Reed's production numbers are so low. 

 

Having said that, they are winning so if anything I think going code red is being proactive.  It's not like the team is in a slump.

[Spearfeather]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I don’t go back far enough to remember the steel curtain defenses of the 1970’s, but those entire defenses are in the HOF basically.  And they won 4 SBs in 6 years.

 

 

I was thinking of the 1976 Steelers defense. May have been their best.

The last nine games:

 

 

Cincinnati Bengals         W 23 – 6

at New York Giants        W 27– 0

San Diego Chargers      W 23– 0

at Kansas City Chiefs    W 45–0

Miami Dolphins             W 14 – 3

Houston Oilers              W 32 – 16

 at Cincinnati Bengals   W 7 – 3

Tampa Bay Buccaneers W 42 – 0

at Houston Oilers          W 21 – 0

 

Didn't make the Super Bowl.

[Voice_of_Reason]

7 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I think it's a combination of attention to detail and making sure the routes are run correctly and Alex just being his usual super conservative self. I can't even count the number of times I've seen him take a snap, almost let the ball loose on his first or second read but then pull it back and end up checking down. Now, obviously on some of those his first and/or second read is simply too well covered or maybe the guy didn't run a good route...that absolutely happens. But I've seen him do it SO often that there's no way guys are running a bad route or are completely blanketed EVERY time it happens. Unfortunately I'm just not sure that it's something that, at this point in his career, Alex is really going to change. The only time he's really let it rip a bunch is when he had a game breaking elite threat in Tyreek Hill who consistently had 2-3 steps, if not more, on the DB covering him. And in the NFL that is wide open.

I also think less predictable play calling, throwing on first down about 1/3 of the times would be a huge help.  Allow Alex to throw when it’s not a known passing situation would really help at least get him in rythm. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

57 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Clearly, they've been trying to fix it week after week, Jay's talked about it not being there and being a work in progress for weeks now.  I've heard enough from beat guys to be convinced that Jay/coaching stuff and FO are all surprised at how long the adjustment has taken Alex.  So the code red vibe to me I am gathering is driven by going after it more aggressively -- whatever that means?  

 

I heard Doug talk about them looking at two WRs before the trade deadline but didn't want to give up what the teams were asking for.  We got Crowder still out.  Richardson is banged up and might not even pay.  Quinn I read will be eligible to play against the Texans.  The Wr situation isn't hot.  Still, surprised Reed's production numbers are so low. 

 

Having said that, they are winning so if anything I think going code red is being proactive.  It's not like the team is in a slump.

Yeah but the urgency to get this fixed has been “meh” because they’ve been winning.

 

Im not really complaining, just observing.

 

I also don’t give a damn about the WR situation.  Crowder is always banged up, Richardson has an injury history.  They brought that ok themselves with decisions they made.  Same with the Alex decision.  As a lot of us said, “if you let Kirk walk, you better be right.”

 

The thing is, I do think that they can get better with what they have.  If they are put in the right situation to do it and coached well.  This is a good week to start.  Atlanta’s defense is decimated by injuries, and can be had. 

 

Id really like to see Jay mix up play-calling, throw on first downs here and there, and get the passing offense into some rythm.  Running, even successfully, on 90% of first downs kills any rythm you can gain in the pass game.

[Skinsfan1311]

2 hours ago, hail2skins said:

The 86 Bears actually gave up less points than the 85 Bears. And who beat them in the paloffs that year ?

Art Monk!!!

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, Nerm said:

 

I'm still not 100% sold on the Skins D.  I agree that the Falcons game will tell us a lot.  I remember reading stories after the Saints game.  The Saints punter flew in his college kicking coach to the game as a thank you to him... Then the Saints didn't punt the whole game.  Kind of a funny story.  Even against Dallas, the Skins stacked the box to stop Zeke, it worked, but Prescott had his best passing yard game of the season... It seems like a good defensive performance, unless you see how bad Dallas usually looks offensively.  The Cowboys line has been pretty bad without Fredrick, but their reputation makes people think they are still above average.  I think this coming game is a good measuring stick for the Skins.

 

I'm sold on the Skin's run D, but I'm with you on the pass D. The only true standout we have on our back end is DJ. We have some dinged up secondary players and our starting corners are mostly mediocre (I'd say Norman is still a "good" corner but definitely not "elite" as he was a few years ago). We also have some really young guys back there as well. We still tend to give up some big pass plays as well as STILL being seemingly clueless as to how to cover many underneath routes by TEs and slot guys. I think our front 7's effectiveness has really helped mask some of our deficiencies in the secondary sometimes. I'm really hoping that having a real top notch FS back there in HHCD will help. 

 

This game will definitely be a test. If we win and can keep their pass offense in check then we can go further towards saying the NO game was an anomaly. If we lose because they put up lots of passing yards and points through the air, then teams basically have a recipe for how to beat us and we'll probably keep struggling against teams with good passing games.

 

Obviously, this is assuming that the offense continues to be completely unimpressive. If they somehow manage to have a breakout game that would make a huge difference as well.

 

45 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Clearly, they've been trying to fix it week after week, Jay's talked about it not being there and being a work in progress for weeks now.  I've heard enough from beat guys to be convinced that Jay/coaching stuff and FO are all surprised at how long the adjustment has taken Alex.  So the code red vibe to me I am gathering is driven by going after it more aggressively -- whatever that means?  

 

I heard Doug talk about them looking at two WRs before the trade deadline but didn't want to give up what the teams were asking for.  We got Crowder still out.  Richardson is banged up and might not even pay.  Quinn I read will be eligible to play against the Texans.  The Wr situation isn't hot.  Still, surprised Reed's production numbers are so low. 

 

Having said that, they are winning so if anything I think going code red is being proactive.  It's not like the team is in a slump.

 

We're winning so obviously the team itself isn't in a slump, but the offense is undoubtedly in one. They've actually seemingly gotten worse as the season has progressed...which is incredibly worrying. I'm wondering if that's part of the "code red" thing.

 

Though another issue I have a huge problem with is Jay's play calling...so I'm hoping that he's not just sitting down with the players, watching tape, and trying to find out what's wrong with them but also looking at his own play calling and finding out what's wrong there as well. Otherwise it feels like a mechanic who built a car engine poorly, disassembled it to examine what's wrong with the individual parts to find out why it isn't running well, and then put the parts back together in the exact same poor way as he did initially. 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

It’s absurd to even compare this season to a season 36 years ago.

 

come on 

[Skinsinparadise]

39 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Though another issue I have a huge problem with is Jay's play calling...so I'm hoping that he's not just sitting down with the players, watching tape, and trying to find out what's wrong with them but also looking at his own play calling and finding out what's wrong there as well. Otherwise it feels like a mechanic who built a car engine poorly, disassembled it to examine what's wrong with the individual parts to find out why it isn't running well, and then put the parts back together in the exact same poor way as he did initially. 

 

Just listened to Cooley, he seems to think its a combo of Alex and the receivers.  He said in the last game he improved slightly from the previous week and Alex would probably want about 12 of those plays back from the Giants game.  In his mind, if Alex just improves by 4 plays that would add another score and by extension the offense would look a lot better.  I guess we will see.  

[Skinsfan1311]

30 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

It’s absurd to even compare this season to a season 36 years ago.

 

come on 

Why?

[Skinsfan1311]

4 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

As bad as you might want to think the 1982 offense was, it was still ranked 12th, and scored 21.1pts a game. Only 9 games.

 

The 2018 offense through 7 games is ranked 25th scoring even less 20.9pts per game. Despite all the advantages an offense has today they are scoring less.

 

The other thing not mentioned is that the 1982 Defense was ranked 1st in the NFL allowing only 14.2pts per game, and only over 17 points twice counting the postseason. 6 times held teams to 10 or under in 13 total games counting the postseason. 

 

This team hasn't held any team to under 10 since Week 1 vs Az. 

 

I think they have a ways to go.

21.1 vs 20.9? 

C'mon, Man!

Seriously,  they do have a ways to go, and you won't get an argument from me saying otherwise.

Say what you want, but the offense in '82 wasn't putting up decent points, until the playoffs. 

The premise is, that it's been done before. Will it happen this season, who knows? 

All I'm saying is that there is a precedent, and we can enjoy the ride...