Redskins Fans: Let’s Stop Being Pansies

[goskins10]

13 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

Ok guys. 

 

Im not saying you can’t be die hard fan if you’re out of state. 

 

Im saying I don’t think you can fully understand all the reasons why the fan base is where it is if you don’t live here and see/feel it all every day. You guys can’t be at the Stadium every week. You don’t see the erosion of fan support on a daily basis. I’m sorry if that bothers you. 

 

For instance, I support London based soccer club Arsenal. Last two or so seasons, the fans nearly staged a mutiny knee manager Arsene Wenger’s refusal to step down after 20 some years at the job. I wanted him gone to but as I started watching videos and vlogs from fans actually in North London, I realized that there was just some parts that even I couldn’t fully grasp onto because I live in another country. I still wake up super early on weekends to watch them play and live and die with every game tho. 

 

With all due respect that is still total bull**** and a really bad example. I am from DC. I have family and lots of friends still there. I read the post. I watch or listen to everything I can. I am on this message board too much probably. 

 

I am very well aware of the fan erosion. I live with it too. It’s fairly narrow to assume you know what people not in the area know or don’t know. That somehow your pain is worse than ours.  And your example is horrible.  Did you live in the UK 30 yrs, 21 as a hard core fan, before leaving? 

 

As @dancingbear stated you do not have to deal with the crap from fans of other teams that outnumber you and take great joy in pointing out every loss. Not a single one of those ****ers ever say hey great game good win. No it’s only when we lose that they have as interest.  

 

I would ask that you give those of us outside the area more credit than you currently are. We have to work harder to get some information but that does not mean we are uninformed or detached. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

@goskins10 I’m not taking a side in the argument because I can see it from both sides. 

 

I’d just like to chime in and say that it’s nowhere near what it used to be.  I recall even back during Gibbs II, you could ‘feel’ whether the Skins win or lost in the area.  These days, Skins fans don’t feel like the majority by any stretch.  Fans from other teams do outnumber us in almost every venue.  I work in Frederick, MD, roughly 40 minutes from FedEx.  Maybe a dozen Skins fans, way more Steelers, Ravens, Cowboys, you name it.  They love to needle Skins fans.  So I don’t think it’s any worse elsewhere than it is here.  It actually feels worse being picked on for liking the home team.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Again, it’s really some wild **** to process when I am wearing a Skins shirt in public and people are heckling me. “Don’t wear that in here!” 

 

These are people that are born and bred in the area. 

 

When I go to the local Modell’s or Dick’s, the Dallas section is just as big as ours. Plenty of Iggles **** too. Carson Wentz had the highest selling jersey in the area last season. 

 

Again, if you disagree, that’s fine. And yeah I’m aware some of you guys are more plugged in than others. 

 

 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

And again, my main point is that if you understand why the fanbase is where it is then we have no issue. Whether you live here or not. 

 

Ive just noticed that a lot of the “our fans suck!! How dare they not go to games! How dare they not renew their seats!” comes from out of towners on these boards. If you don’t fit that description, then it doesn’t apply to you

 

 

and back to the original point, I’ll do my part to be better as a fan 

[goskins10]

34 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

And again, my main point is that if you understand why the fanbase is where it is then we have no issue. Whether you live here or not. 

 

Ive just noticed that a lot of the “our fans suck!! How dare they not go to games! How dare they not renew their seats!” comes from out of towners on these boards. If you don’t fit that description, then it doesn’t apply to you

 

 

and back to the original point, I’ll do my part to be better as a fan 

 

And there are people in the area giving you **** for not supporting the team also. My point is - and i will leave it here - is that you are using location to make some differentiation that is not valid. 

 

The unfortunate fact is that it's very difficult to be a Redskins fan right now no matter where you are. There is the perennial losing. The owner that is a POS of person. The FO that is as you said "arrogant and smug". The name. Where you are does not determine your level of angst or support for that matter. To assume that people getting upset that locals do not support the team are not tied in is not fair. They are but they have chosen to ignore it. And that's their choice. 

 

I will leave it there because I am right - so there!!!!   Just kidding. Please know that was a joke. 

 

I know one thing for sure - we could sure use a few more victories. We have not had many winning streaks with Jay. Now would be a good time. At least show up for dallast. This coming out flat after a win - especially a kind of big win - is nauseating. 

[Renegade7]

2 hours ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

You're just the worst.....

 

I seriously hate everyone.

Is it a full moon again or just another day that ends with a "y"?

 

 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Is this really turning into a discussion about who is a good fan and who isn't? Aren't most of you jags, like, 40?

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

And again, my main point is that if you understand why the fanbase is where it is then we have no issue. Whether you live here or not. 

 

Ive just noticed that a lot of the “our fans suck!! How dare they not go to games! How dare they not renew their seats!” comes from out of towners on these boards. If you don’t fit that description, then it doesn’t apply to you

 

 

and back to the original point, I’ll do my part to be better as a fan 

 

In all seriousness, that's why I snapped on homie from Washington state who starret that thread about the crowds in FedEx.  Jus because you show up to an away game everytime the redskins play on the dark side of the moon doesn't make you bigger fan of anything except bragging about it. 

 

I dropped about $200 just to get into the stadium do the cowboys game, that woulda been impossible for me just a couple years ago, has nothing to do with how a big of a fan I am.  30s without kids are basically your 20s with money, I know broke folk that live and die on hope redskins give them good news for a change, I was one of them.

7 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

Is this really turning into a discussion about who is a good fan and who isn't? Aren't most of you jags, like, 40?

It always seems to come back to that when it shouldn't, I'm sick of it.  You can still be a die hard and think we suck.

[Koolblue13]

So, a point is being made that DC doesn't even have fans anymore? Then why keep the team there? They started losing relevance when Carolina, Baltimore and Tennessee all got teams, so that younger generation grew up with more local teams. Move the team, change the racist name and move on. Fans are giving up on them, so why not?

[goskins10]

2 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

Is this really turning into a discussion about who is a good fan and who isn't? Aren't most of you jags, like, 40?

 

Not who is s good fan. Who and how well people understand being down on the team.  It is my contention it does not  matter where you are as much as your personal outlook on things in general.  Not reigniting the discussion just clarifying. 

 

I have always maintained anyone crazy enough to spend any time here is a major fan. Any discussion about how much a fan someone is to me is kind of silly. 

 

Just for the record i am 58 and been a fan since 1968. Not sure the relevance but answered the question.  

[Dancing Bear]

45 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

So, a point is being made that DC doesn't even have fans anymore? Then why keep the team there? They started losing relevance when Carolina, Baltimore and Tennessee all got teams, so that younger generation grew up with more local teams. Move the team, change the racist name and move on. Fans are giving up on them, so why not?

Seriously!?!?!

 

[goskins10]

9 minutes ago, Dancing Bear said:

Seriously!?!?!

 

Edit

 

I could be wrong but I think your sarcasm meter may be a little faulty.  Lol. ?

[Koolblue13]

14 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

I could be wrong but I think your sarcasm meter may be a little faulty.  Lol. ?

I'm being serious. I've wanted a name change for a while and look how many people, especially the ones attacking the out of town fans, are saying it's a dead market.

[goskins10]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

I'm being serious. I've wanted a name change for a while and look how many people, especially the ones attacking the out of town fans, are saying it's a dead market.

 

There is a name thread so will not get into that other than to echo dancingbears thought that the response is a bit over the top. So much so I was certain it was sarcasm. But to each their own.

 

 My apologies to dancingbear. 

[kleese]

6 hours ago, Burgold said:

I guess for some of us older fans (I'm an older fan? How the heck did that happen!) the question is how long can the fire of the glory years sustain us and how much is needed to either rekindle the sparks or make sure the pilot light doesn't go out. For me, the answer is not that much. I'm a fickle fan who just wants to root for his team. During the season, I don't think about Bruce Allen or the front office or Dan Snyder. None of that really matters to me. What matters is the team. And, we have a pretty likable group of players. Not a lot of stars, perhaps no superstars, but a good quantity of talent.

 

As for my fellows, the eeyores frustrate me. It's like Kleese says, the whining is annoying. I boo when we play stupid, blow an assignment, or worse, lay an egg looking like we didn't come out with a plan or play without any enthusiasm, but that's different than an approach of... we suck, we'll always suck, and don't you dare get suckered into enjoying a win because they'll just let you down. 

 

Football's supposed to be fun. It's supposed to be a release. We have very real things to deal with in terms of family, work, country, environment, etc. So, every so often it's nice to disappear for a few hours to have some frivolous fun. I don't want to be a realist when watching my team. I want to be hopeful, loud, and a little bit crazy. Realism is for the rest of the week. Sunday is for fun.

 

That's my biggest fault with the whiners and the negative Nancies, they're determined not to have any fun and worse... determined not to let anyone else enjoy their fun.

 

The glory years really don't sustain me anymore... my love of the team does. Or I should say, my love of what the team does for me sustains me. I let the glory years go back somewhere around 1998. My passion for Sunday hasn't changed at all since the glory years. Now, my EXPECTATION? Oh yeah, that has changed a lot. But the thing for me is I don't get any more or less jazzed for a game if I think we are going to roll or if I think we are going to get crushed. It's all the same to me. 

 

When Vernon caught the TD on Sunday, I jumped up a little and clapped and got a little excited. I guess if you want to see him score the TD and say "well, who cares because Danny boy still owns the team...." certainly your (the universal you, not you personally) prerogative-- just not sure how you can watch in that state. 

[kleese]

4 hours ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

The Redskins are the Mama's Family of football. They are on every week whether you want them to be or not. And that's just fine. Kleese thinks Vicki Lawrence is a hoot, and who has the right to question him?

 

You? I think not.

 

Nah, more like D'ffrent Strokes... like whoa this show sucks and is honestly pretty offensive, but holy hell if I don't love it. 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

16 minutes ago, kleese said:

 

But the thing for me is I don't get any more or less jazzed for a game if I think we are going to roll or if I think we are going to get crushed. It's all the same to me. 

 

 

Honey, tonight, I was thinking of putting a little salt on the boiled chicken.

 

Whoa whoa whoa. Let's not get too crazy here.

[Burgold]

15 minutes ago, kleese said:

 

The glory years really don't sustain me anymore... my love of the team does. Or I should say, my love of what the team does for me sustains me. I let the glory years go back somewhere around 1998.

I think I lasted longer. I think I held onto the glory years up 'til about somewhere in the Shanny years. Shanny gave up on seasons and games and that caused a bit of a breaking. The one thing you shouldn't do in sports is give up and he did.

 

That caused some mental rejiggering. Now, there is a bit of "prove it" mixed in with the inner child's never flagging belief. Still, the glory years kept me going for a long time. Sadly, I do think they are in the rear mirror now and I am in need of some good times again. Like you, I can easily get amped-up by a good play or game, but my mid-week exuberance ain't what it used to be.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

36 minutes ago, kleese said:

 

When Vernon caught the TD on Sunday, I jumped up a little and clapped and got a little excited. I guess if you want to see him score the TD and say "well, who cares because Danny boy still owns the team...." certainly your (the universal you, not you personally) prerogative-- just not sure how you can watch in that state. 

I highly doubt anyone that cares enough to tune in is doing that.

 

I gather most of us negative folks would prefer the team win in spite of the FO.  Many of us are fans of a lot of the players and coaches.  We recognize though that failure starts at the very top and trickles down to them, even if a lot of fans fail to or don’t care to see it.

[HardcoreZorn]

To be honest, a lot of it can simply be attributed to the years mounting without tremendous on the field success. As each year goes by, the impatience grows the frustration reaches a boiling point. Till you get to where we are now, a half empty stadium and an incredibly apathetic and pessimistic fan base. Not to mention all of the teasers over the years. Following 2005, we felt like we had that thing rolling man. 2006 comes and bam we stink again. 2008 we go what 6-1 or 6-2 to start the year? Jim Zorn was the next hot shot young up and coming HC. Portis and JC are MVP candidates. We were imposing our will on divisional opponents. Then the line collapsed and so did the rest of the team into probably one of the darkest times in the Snyder era (there are a lot). Fast forward to 2012 where Griffin is rookie of the year and we are poised to handle the division for the next decade. Our first true drafted franchise QB stud that we could build around. And then he collapses, and we go along with him into another very dark time (2013). And then if you want to get into it, the thought we FINALLY had a real true GM. A talent evaluator in charge of everything personnel, and a good one at that. And then his exit. And then Kirk's dramatic exit. 

 

I'd be lying to you if I said I didn't understand where the negativity stems from or comes from. I'm not an idiot. But if you truly step back and take a look, it's really the first time in Snyder's ownership that we have at least attempted to build something other than a flash in the pan. I think going on 4 straight years of competitive football, no matter how inconsistent, is indicative of that. I think if you truly separate yourself from some of the media hoopla, that's created in part BECAUSE of all of our past transgressions, you will see it's night and day from an operational standpoint.

 

Anyone who looks back on 1999-2009 as anything other than total incompetence, at literally every single facet, is not remembering things correctly in my opinion. Hiring Gibbs brought me 2 of my best years as a fan. But I vividly remember how critical the fanbase was of Gibbs II. Washed up the game had passed him by. Anyone that thought we were more likable back then has the blinders on to put it bluntly. There were countless homegrown guys, guys like Dunbar now, that we would let go and they would go on to have excellent careers, ala Pierce, Clark. Not to mention some of the most lopsided trades in league history. Duckett for a 3rd and 4th? Taylor for a 2nd? Heck even Portis for Bailey and a 2nd (Portis is one of my all-time favortie Redskins but still, horrible trade). Brandon Lloyd for a 3rd and 4th? Hiring an offensive coordinator before a head coach?! The 2009 season where we hired some guy calling bingo games to come execute the game plan where we had like 4 different guys calling plays. All of the LUDICROUS contracts we handed out for minimal to no ROI. Again, I could literally write a book about how incompetent we were when it came to building a football team pre Shanny/Bruce.

 

Again, are we perfect? Nah, far from it. But we're competent. We have some really exciting young pieces to build around, starting with our defensive line. And so for me, where I get frustrated isn't necessarily because people aren't jumping up and down about how great we are. It's that when you kind of take people through that comparison, the answer becomes "well just because a restaurant served ****ty food in the past, just because it's mediocre now doesn't mean I have to go celebrating." Like really? Why can't progress or competence be talked about in a favorable light? Why does someone who shares that perspective get ridiculed and laughed off?

 

I get the Redskins have set you up to brace for the fall and prepare for disappointment, again, I'm not oblivious. But the overall attitude, demeanor, obsessive behavior to talk about the negative when we sit at 3-2 and have a bad ass matchup coming up with the cowgirls really gets under my skin. I'm going to be sad watching a half empty stadium sunday with 40% girls fans. That's not what I remember this fanbase being during my childhood when I went to each and every game. You think the Bills and Browns haven't stumbled through similar levels of incompetence? I promise you they have, you just aren't near as close to the action. You just don't care as much. Those are GREAT fanbases. And it has nothing to do with being positive or negative. It has to do with the fact that those fans haven't turned their back. Ours have, clearly. I sincerely hope that we make the playoffs this year. But if not, I think we blow it up and the next regime will walk into a situation infinitely better than Bruce and Shanny in 2009. And for that I am thankful. I can only hope that the way we are finally building the right way will lead to sustained success and the fanbase is reignited. One can hope...

[JSSkinz]

Fans will come back, younger generations gravitate to winners, they don't understand why anyone would root for a mediocre or losing team just because that team is from their hometown or an area where they have roots.

 

It's a different time but those younger generations are heavy bandwagoners, they will come back when we win again.

 

[kleese]

42 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I highly doubt anyone that cares enough to tune in is doing that.

 

I gather most of us negative folks would prefer the team win in spite of the FO.  Many of us are fans of a lot of the players and coaches.  We recognize though that failure starts at the very top and trickles down to them, even if a lot of fans fail to or don’t care to see it.

 

That's where I think you are wrong. I don't think anyone fails to see it. Maybe a rouge Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind type, but not any sort of significant portion of the fan base. I am not sure I can think of one person on this site who really LIKES Snyder or thinks he's done a bang-up job as owner in his 20 years. 

 

My personal feeling is that I matter more than any of them... seriously, at least in my world. I honestly don't even care about the players and coaches all that much-- they come and go... some become ingrained as legends and that is cool. That's when I feel like they join MY level. Guys like Joey T are the ones I fully accept into my level of Redskins-hood. There are others too... guys that I feel truly care deeply about the Redskins beyond any individual person, team, or entity. 

 

The reason I don't loathe Allen? Eh, because I was here before he was and I'll be here after he is gone (at least I hope so, I'm "only" 41). I can outlast them all. I never left to be part of the Bucs or Raiders organization. I stayed. And no, I'm not criticizing professionals for taking other jobs-- just illustrating my perspective. 

 

Snyder of course might be here for the rest of my days. While I don't find him as personally loathsome as others do and while I feel he gets most of his terrible rap from his terrible first five years or so, I certainly can't defend his record. There is literally nothing to defend. Literally no way you could build a case that he has done a good job. It's impossible. 

 

So he's here. I'm here. I understand he isn't going anywhere. I have also chosen not to go anywhere. So in this really twisted way, I kind of feel like we are in this together-- Gruden, Allen, Smith, Kerrigan, Payne, etc... will all eventually be gone... I'll outlast them all just like I've been doing since the early 1980's. 

 

Seasons are too short. I run a business, I am married and have three kids. Leisure time and disposable income is limited. Sundays are precious. If I can't find true joy in this, I need to get out. So I find the joy. I am really excited about Sunday; tons of anticipation... having some people over and will be making food, watching early games, etc. And come 3:25 (central time here) I'll be fully locked on the game-- and that level of locked will be no different than 1986, 1991, 1998, or 2010. Oh and if I had to make a pick.... I'd pick Dallas. No blinders here. But I might be wrong... and that's what keeps the joy flowing. 

3 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

Fans will come back, younger generations gravitate to winners, they don't understand why anyone would root for a mediocre or losing team just because that team is from their hometown or an area where they have roots.

 

It's a different time but those younger generations are heavy bandwagoners, they will come back when we win again.

 

 

Yep, which is why I don't think the Redskins have any sort of "crisis" on their hands with their fanbase. It's not as rabid of a base/area as places like Green Bay, Buffalo, Minnesota, etc.... you don't have an entire state or region that identifies with the team and will ride with them forever no matter what. The Redskins have to earn the support in a more genuine way than many franchises--- and they haven't done that so they've missed a generation. Seems that they are coming around to the acceptance level of that, which is good. Like you said, turn the results around and slowly the fans will return. Nothing is dead. Just in a coma currently. 

[RemoveSnyder]

This thread is so tempting.

 

[kleese]

8 hours ago, OVCChairman said:

kleese  Cheers bud, I popped onto your profile and see you're nowhere near the DC metro... or I'd suggest we get together for an drink.

 

 

 

Well, if you ever find yourself in the greater OKC area.... you can generally find me at Thunder games. And I'm always up for a drink...or twelve. 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

You honestly never compare the Thunder to the Skins? Ever? Seriously ?

 

I mean OKC has to be one of the best fan experiences in pro sports. 

 

Im just curious