2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[nonniey]

11 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Very real possibility that we win the Eagles game too.  These wins will end up being costly.  We've played our way out of Haskins range.  There is a substantial drop off in quality after him.  If Herbert goes back to school, then Lock will be our only other option in the first round and even he might go higher than we pick.  Our current draft slot is 17 and there are four or five QB needy teams in front of us depending on how Oakland feels about Carr.

 

We're screwed for next year if Alex Smith doesn't come back.

Playing ourselves out of of Haskins range is a blessing in disguise - it increases the possibility the Redskins will wait to draft a QB in 2020 or 2021 when the QBs are vastly better.

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, nonniey said:

Playing ourselves out of of Haskins range is a blessing in disguise - it increases the possibility the Redskins will wait to draft a QB to 2020 or 2021 when the QBs are vastly better.

 

Fromm and Tua are likely going 1st and 2nd in the 2020 draft.  I haven't really put a lot of thought into it but wonder if the guys in the next tier like Eason are actually better than the first tier of this draft.  But if the target is Fromm or Tua -- how are we going to be picking that high?  Been a long time since the team has cratered to that range.  And the teams that likely pick there in 2020 like the Raiders, Tampa or whomever doubting they'd deal those picks.

[nonniey]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Fromm and Tua are likely going 1st and 2nd in the 2020 draft.  I haven't really put a lot of thought into it but wonder if the guys in the next tier like Eason are actually better than the first tier of this draft.  But if the target is Fromm or Tua -- how are we going to be picking that high?  Been a long time since the team has cratered to that range.  And the teams that likely pick there in 2020 like the Raiders, Tampa perhaps doubting they'd deal those picks.

You maximize your chances by trading for picks in 2020 and 2021 (Both those drafts will be strong at QB). I've have no qualms about trading out of the 1st in 2019 entirely to gain future picks.

[HardcoreZorn]

1 minute ago, nonniey said:

You maximize your chances by trading for picks in 2020 and 2021 (Both those drafts will be strong at QB). I've have no qualms about trading out of the 1st in 2019 entirely to gain future picks.

A lot of it depends on who is there and BPA and all that jazz. If we pick at 17 or whatever and Lock is there and we really like him, go for it. Don't wait for 2020. If you don't, don't reach.

 

I think teams are finally beginning to catch on that yes, QB's matter. But so do systems and supporting casts. Keep building up around the QB and good things will happen.

[Rufus T Firefly]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Fromm and Tua are likely going 1st and 2nd in the 2020 draft.  I haven't really put a lot of thought into it but wonder if the guys in the next tier like Eason are actually better than the first tier of this draft.  But if the target is Fromm or Tua -- how are we going to be picking that high?  Been a long time since the team has cratered to that range.  And the teams that likely pick there in 2020 like the Raiders, Tampa or whomever doubting they'd deal those picks.

Yeah, this supposed 'silver lining' idea I've seen here- getting a worse draft position setting us up for the 2020 draft doesn't add up. With Bruce and Jay back (more likely with yesterday's win) and the talent on board, there is minimal chance we draft high (or accumulate draft capital) in 2020. We're a middle of the pack team (maybe slightly below), and a regime that's always gone for the 9-7 range and needs to salvage their jobs isn't going to play for the future. I'd honestly be about as surprised with a 2020 top 8 draft pick as I would a legit Super Bowl run next year.

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, nonniey said:

You maximize your chances by trading for picks in 2020 and 2021 (Both those drafts will be strong at QB). I've have no qualms about trading out of the 1st in 2019 entirely to gain future picks.

 

My point is it doesn't seem realistic that we'd have a shot at the first or 2nd pick in the draft in 2020 as for 2021 assume you are talking about Lawrence -- ditto.  The team does just enough to keep it out of the 3-13 range. 8-8 seems to be the likely range.  And I can't recall them ever building draft capital like you described at least as far as first or even 2nd rounders.   Trading a high pick this draft for a higher pick next draft -- be shocked, it doesn't seem like how they roll.  The closest thing that hits me is when Scot traded in the 2016 draft a 3rd for a 4th in 2017.

 

You read the same rap on twitter from Bengal, Tampa, Giant fans too wait for 2020 -- yeah I guess some team will end with these guys but I'd put the odds on that another team who is equally desperate for a QB will be in better position to take one.  You never know, though but hard for me to just count on the stars aligning for it to happen because if the past is prologue, we won't be in position to take that guy unless we blow a team away with a deal similar to the RG3 one.

[nonniey]

The QB class is weak this year. Would any of the 2019 QBs have be drafted before any of the 1st round  2018 QBs ( if they were in the same draft)? - doubtful and what is troubling is several (maybe even most) of the 1st round 2018 QBs  weren't even 1st round talent.

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

A lot of it depends on who is there and BPA and all that jazz. If we pick at 17 or whatever and Lock is there and we really like him, go for it. Don't wait for 2020. If you don't, don't reach.

 

I think teams are finally beginning to catch on that yes, QB's matter. But so do systems and supporting casts. Keep building up around the QB and good things will happen.

 

I agree with most of this.  I'll start with i don't think you are going to the dance without a top 10 QB or if it happens you are a rare unicorn versus setting a new trend.    So if there is a QB you love even if you have to trade up some -- like the Texans did with Watson, Chiefs with Mahomes, etc, then pull the trigger.  Otherwise, don't force it and keep building and hope to get to a QB eventually. 

 

And sometimes its tough to judge a draft, the 2017 draft wasn't that hot in theory for Qbs but regardless its looking good in reality. 

 

5 minutes ago, nonniey said:

The QB class is weak this year would any of them been before any of the QBs drafted in the first last year if they were in the same draft? - doubtful and what is troubling is several maybe even most of the QBs last year taken in the first weren't even 1st round talent.

 

I think though the way this team rolls the more on point practice might be this:

 

if you end up picking in the late teens:  do you like Lock (if he's still there) or Grier, or D. Jones or whomever.  Over the guys likely at a similar spot next year lets say:  Eason, Costello, etc.

 

In theory, the idea that we'd have the #1 or #2 pick whether its from the team cratering the 2019 season or bartering our way up to that pick in the draft -- I think that's a long shot. I agree with your point in theory but hard for me to see it going down that way.

[nonniey]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

My point is it doesn't seem realistic that we'd have a shot at the first or 2nd pick in the draft in 2020 as for 2021 assume you are talking about Lawrence -- ditto.  The team does just enough to keep it out of the 3-13 range. 8-8 seems to be the likely range.  And I can't recall them ever building draft capital like you described at least as far as first or even 2nd rounders.   Trading a high pick this draft for a higher pick next draft -- be shocked, it doesn't seem like how they roll.  The closest thing that hits me is when Scot traded in the 2016 draft a 3rd for a 4th in 2017.....

You are correct that the Redskins don't have this in their recent playbook - but they should and it would be the smart play in 2019 (Admittedly a smart play maybe asking too much from this front office).

[HardcoreZorn]

59 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I agree with most of this.  I'll start with i don't think you are going to the dance without a top 10 QB or if it happens you are a rare unicorn versus setting a new trend.    So if there is a QB you love even if you have to trade up some -- like the Texans did with Watson, Chiefs with Mahomes, etc, then pull the trigger.  Otherwise, don't force it and keep building and hope to get to a QB eventually. 

 

And sometimes its tough to judge a draft, the 2017 draft wasn't that hot in theory for Qbs but regardless its looking good in reality.

I think you make a good point. The reason it's so hard to judge a draft before hand is a good bit of the players' success in the NFL is dependent on things outside of that player's control. And they are things that evaluators don't look at.

 

I don't disagree you have to find a top 10-15 QB. But look at where these guys are picked in the draft. Brady in the 6th, Wilson in the 3rd? Brees was an early 2nd. Rodgers a later first. Mahomes, Watson, Roethlisberger all outside of the top ten picks as well. Sure you have guys like Ryan, Rivers, Goff, Wentz, Luck that go at the top of the draft and prove to be worth it. But it's clear you can find successful QB's outside of the top 5. So to get super hung up on draft position or waiting for certain QB classes to come around is a folly IMO. The important thing is to make your picks count. Don't reach, go BPA. And if there's a QB you really like sitting there, grab him. If there's a QB you really like sitting there and it only takes 1 additional high draft pick or presumable cornerstone of your roster to forfeit to get him, do it. But in general I'd say avoid giving up large quantities of picks for the unknown, and NEVER ever draft a QB just to grab one. I think it's true you can "reach" on a lesser QB talent in the first round over better talents at other positions due to positional importance. But you better be damn sure he's one of those top 10-15 guys or I think you're better off adding pro bowl talent elsewhere. 

[Warhead36]

Do not under any circumstances take a QB this year. Its gonna be one of those Christian Ponder/Jake Locker/Blaine Gabbert type QB classes.

[Rufus T Firefly]

26 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

I don't disagree you have to find a top 10-15 QB. But look at where these guys are picked in the draft. Brady in the 6th, Wilson in the 3rd? Brees was an early 2nd. Rodgers a later first. Mahomes, Watson, Roethlisberger all outside of the top ten picks as well. Sure you have guys like Ryan, Rivers, Goff, Wentz, Luck that go at the top of the draft and prove to be worth it. But it's clear you can find successful QB's outside of the top 5. So to get super hung up on draft position or waiting for certain QB classes to come around is a folly IMO. The important thing is to make your picks count. Don't reach, go BPA. And if there's a QB you really like sitting there, grab him. If there's a QB you really like sitting there and it only takes 1 additional high draft pick or presumable cornerstone of your roster to forfeit to get him, do it. But in general I'd say avoid giving up large quantities of picks for the unknown, and NEVER ever draft a QB just to grab one. I think it's true you can "reach" on a lesser QB talent in the first round over better talents at other positions due to positional importance. But you better be damn sure he's one of those top 10-15 guys or I think you're better off adding pro bowl talent elsewhere. 

People love to say things like this, but do you have any idea how freaking MANY QBs get picked outside the first round before someone stumbles onto a Franchise guy? And it seems to be getting more rare as years go by. Apart from Wilson, who's the last elite-ish QB taken outside the top 10? Unless you want to argue someone like Kirk or Dak, it's Aaron Rodgers, and that was 14 drafts ago.

 

Personally, I wouldn't want to bank my team's future on finding the once every half-dozen years diamond in the rough QB.

[HardcoreZorn]

Just now, Rufus T Firefly said:

People love to say things like this, but do you have any idea how freaking MANY QBs get picked outside the first round before someone stumbles onto a Franchise guy? And it seems to be getting more rare as years go by. Apart from Wilson, who's the last elite-ish QB taken outside the top 10? Unless you want to argue someone like Kirk or Dak, it's Aaron Rodgers, and that was 14 drafts ago.

 

Personally, I wouldn't want to bank my team's future on finding the once every half-dozen years diamond in the rough QB.

What about Mahomes and Watson? The point wasn't to say QB isn't important or just wait for the third round and you'll find your guy. It's that good QB's can be picked anywhere, and some guys like Mahomes and Watson are super talented guys that their teams didn't have to tank for.

 

And Dak and Kirk are excellent examples. Even Dalton. Having that caliber of QB on their rookie contract is immensely beneficial to fielding a super bowl competitive team.

[Cooleyfan1993]

Anyone know when Jalen Hurts is supposed to go to the draft? Is it this year or next? Asked this Saturday but didn’t see an answer yet. What do you guys think he could do in the nfl? 

[Rufus T Firefly]

4 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

What about Mahomes and Watson? 

Mahomes was the 10th pick and Watson hasn't sold me on being an elite QB.

4 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

And Dak and Kirk are excellent examples. Even Dalton. Having that caliber of QB on their rookie contract is immensely beneficial to fielding a super bowl competitive team.

When were any of those guys on a "super bowl competitive team"?

5 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

The point wasn't to say QB isn't important or just wait for the third round and you'll find your guy. It's that good QB's can be picked anywhere, and some guys like Mahomes and Watson are super talented guys that their teams didn't have to tank for.

There are really only two questions that need to be answered- Are you more likely to win a title with a Franchise QB or not? And are you more likely to find with with a higher pick in the first round or not? The answer to those questions are obvious. And to continue to try to go 8-8 and hope for a semi-miracle or to get by with a Dalton wouldn't be something I'd be interested in personally.

 

And people who make these arguments kind of make it seem like every year is the same. Like it was a coin flip whether you'd get Andrew Luck or James Winston. It wasn't. Everyone knew Luck was as cant miss as you could get, no one thought Winston was that. And the next two yers are looking like the closest things to a Luck draft as we've seen since then (as of now, obviously this can change). At the cost of making some desperate run at a Wild Card in a loaded NFC next year, I'd much rather take a shot at a franchise-saving QB.

[Going Commando]

4 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

What about Mahomes and Watson? The point wasn't to say QB isn't important or just wait for the third round and you'll find your guy. It's that good QB's can be picked anywhere, and some guys like Mahomes and Watson are super talented guys that their teams didn't have to tank for. 

 

Eagles got Wentz without tanking too.  The price they paid was Kiko Alonso, Byron Maxwell, and two firsts and a third and fourth to go from 13 to 2.  That's not too bad a price at all.

 

The truth is there isn't a huge variation in top end quality of QB talent from year to year.  These kids go through the same camps and training and development systems and go to similar big time college programs where they have similar experiences.  Almost every year produces two or three first round guys who are good enough to become NFL starters.  This year is no different.

 

Franchise QBs are made, not found.  The biggest factor in developing these largely similar pieces of raw clay is the quality of coaching.  The good QB guys like Doug Pederson, Matt Nagy, Sean McVay, Bill O'Brien, and Andy Reid know how to develop the position and they end up making their guys successful.  The **** QB guys like Jeff Fisher and John Fox don't know how to coach or develop the position and they **** up their raw clay.  Not a coincidence that Trubisky and Goff look legit as soon as they go from being coached by those two imbeciles to McVay and Nagy.

 

Can anyone whose evaluated both really tell me what the difference between Jared Goff at Cal is from Drew Lock at Missouri?

 

They are the same prospect.  We can win with a Drew Lock if we can successfully develop him.  And I think Gruden is a pretty good QB guy.  The "QB grass will be greener next draft" is a fallacy and a form of procrastination.

[Skinsinparadise]

13 hours ago, HardcoreZorn said:

I think you make a good point. The reason it's so hard to judge a draft before hand is a good bit of the players' success in the NFL is dependent on things outside of that player's control. And they are things that evaluators don't look at.

 

I don't disagree you have to find a top 10-15 QB. But look at where these guys are picked in the draft. Brady in the 6th, Wilson in the 3rd? Brees was an early 2nd. Rodgers a later first. Mahomes, Watson, Roethlisberger all outside of the top ten picks as well. Sure you have guys like Ryan, Rivers, Goff, Wentz, Luck that go at the top of the draft and prove to be worth it. But it's clear you can find successful QB's outside of the top 5. So to get super hung up on draft position or waiting for certain QB classes to come around is a folly IMO. The important thing is to make your picks count. Don't reach, go BPA. And if there's a QB you really like sitting there, grab him. If there's a QB you really like sitting there and it only takes 1 additional high draft pick or presumable cornerstone of your roster to forfeit to get him, do it. But in general I'd say avoid giving up large quantities of picks for the unknown, and NEVER ever draft a QB just to grab one. I think it's true you can "reach" on a lesser QB talent in the first round over better talents at other positions due to positional importance. But you better be damn sure he's one of those top 10-15 guys or I think you're better off adding pro bowl talent elsewhere. 

 

Mahomes was a top 10 pick, #10.  Chiefs traded up for him.  Watson was traded up for too, #12.   Roethlisberger was pretty close at # 11 pick.  Rodgers was thought to be a top 10, he was a surprise fall. That stuff doesn't tend to happen these days where you got surprise QB falls -- the position is at a bigger premium so instead its more likely you get surprise climbs like Ponder. 

 

Brees was good at Purdue but short -- ala Russell Wilson who also was very good in Wisconsin and dropped in part for those reasons.   My point is these guys were fairly well known prospects with plenty of hype.  Mahomes perhaps being an exception but he was known still as an athletic freak -- I recall talking about him on that draft thread that year.  

 

And most of them were picked at a spot likely ahead of where the Redskins will be picking this year and next.   The on point exception to this draft might be Murray if he comes out -- another short dude, shorter than Brees-Wilson who might drop for that reason and still be there at our pick.

 

I agree with your point though not to pick a QB just to take one.  I think that about any position.  I am not a draft by need guy.  But lets say the Redskins love name that dude and have to trade up some and don't have to give up a kings ransom to do, it.  Then do it -- see Chiefs and Texans. 

 

12 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Eagles got Wentz without tanking too.  The price they paid was Kiko Alonso, Byron Maxwell, and two firsts and a third and fourth to go from 13 to 2.  That's not too bad a price at all.

 

 

They positioned themselves to the #8 pick before pulling that trigger with the Browns.   Roseman played it really clever -- recouped #1 too via the Bradford trade.  I don't think our FO has it in them to play a game like that.  When was the last time we got major value for any of our players in trades?   We get an occasional mid rounder on that front.

 

This point isn't directed at you.  If the Redskins are lets say picking #18 in 2020 and lets say Tampa and the Raiders have the #1 and #2 for starters why would they want to give up a franchise QB let alone haggle with a team picking so far down the draft.  Not saying that happens that way but the whole scenario strikes me as likely going against the odds.

 

12 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Franchise QBs are made, not found.  The biggest factor in developing these largely similar pieces of raw clay is the quality of coaching.  The good QB guys like Doug Pederson, Matt Nagy, Sean McVay, Bill O'Brien, and Andy Reid know how to develop the position and they end up making their guys successful.  The **** QB guys like Jeff Fisher and John Fox don't know how to coach or develop the position and they **** up their raw clay.  Not a coincidence that Trubisky and Goff look legit as soon as they go from being coached by those two imbeciles to McVay and Nagy.

 

Can anyone whose evaluated both really tell me what the difference between Jared Goff at Cal is from Drew Lock at Missouri?

 

They are the same prospect.  We can win with a Drew Lock if we can successfully develop him.  And I think Gruden is a pretty good QB guy.  The "QB grass will be greener next draft" is a fallacy and a form of procrastination.

 

I agree with this point.  It's sort of what I am getting at which is the grass is greener argument for lets wait to 2020.   If they like Lock a lot or whomever and they are within the range of their pick, then pull the trigger.  I agree that Gruden is a good QB guy.    The idea anyway that they will be in position to take Fromm or Tua to me is a fun thought but the way this FO rolls -- that's very unlikely -- the D line is too good to expect the team to crater and have a 3-13 season IMO.  Ditto to get Lawrence in 2021 who likely almost for sure will be the #1 pick in that draft. 

[Going Commando]

Jeffery Simmons, DT, Mississippi St, Jr - 5.95

 

Strengths

- Arguably the premier one gapping run defender from the one technique in the class
- Excellent size for the position
- Burly, columnar build with very broad shoulders and joints and minimal sloppy weight.  Carries 300 pounds very well
- Vines for arms
- huge hands
- Excellent functional power. Routinely puts OGs on skates
- Anchor at the PoA is good, if not quite great
- Game over when he latches on and extends.  Bull rush can be devastating
- Very good first step.  Often the first one through the neutral zone
- Hits run fits very quickly and excels at spilling runs
- Smart player.  Does a good job finding the football and sniffing out misdirection
- Very aggressive and bruising run defender that wins through attrition.  Motor keeps running through the fourth quarter
- Played well against his best competition

 

Weaknesses

- Two down player.
- Just a bull rusher.  Arm over looked clunky and inaccurate
- No counter rushes.  Stymied if his initial plan fails
- Limited playmaking range.  Not a great runner who can make pursuit plays
- Hand placement on punch inconsistent
- Spends too much time patty-caking.  Needs to shuck faster after he wins his gap to finish the tackle
- Not a very twitchy athlete
- Pads tend to climb too much off the line on passing downs
- Easily neutralized by doubles and chips in pass pro
- Not a great athlete capable of making plays off his frame.  Whiffs more arm tackles than you want to see
- Has some balance issues
- Partially a result of scheme, but gets himself sealed from the A-Gap more than you want to see.  He has a plan and gets up field and can't really deviate from it
- Not much of a threat on stunts/twists
- Character issues

 

I see some Kenny Clark in Jeffery Simmons, except that I think Simmons has a lot better body.  Probably a second round talent who could sneak into the late first like Clark did.  But some teams probably won't put him very high on their board because of a street fighting incident from before he got to Mississippi St where he beat a woman on the ground.  Ultimately his range will depend on how teams view his potential as a pass rusher.  He is not a very good rusher at all--basically if he can't win with his inital bull, then you've stoned him.  But he has the speed and the body to become a very good one if he can develop his pass rushing instincts, balance, handwork, and repertoire/plan.

 

His run defense as a traditional one gapping 4-3 nose and three tech is elite level.  Not a very good option as a two gapping nose.  He's got the strength and arm length to become a quality 5 tech for a 3-4 front, but the speed across the neutral zone is what makes him special.  He should be used in an attacking scheme looking to spill the run.

[HardcoreZorn]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Mahomes was a top 10 pick, #10.  Chiefs traded up for him.  Watson was traded up for too, #12.   Roethlisberger was pretty close at # 11 pick.  Rodgers was thought to be a top 10, he was a surprise fall. That stuff doesn't tend to happen these days where you got surprise QB falls -- the position is at a bigger premium so instead its more likely you get surprise climbs like Ponder. 

 

Brees was good at Purdue but short -- ala Russell Wilson who also was very good in Wisconsin and dropped in part for those reasons.   My point is these guys were fairly well known prospects with plenty of hype.  Mahomes perhaps being an exception but he was known still as an athletic freak -- I recall talking about him on that draft thread that year.  

I agree QB is at more of a premium than ever before, though I really do think that is going to cool down soon from a market and trading assets standpoint. Not even Aaron Rodgers can do it with a makeshift cast, so why if you are a GM would you sell out for one?

 

You're kind of making my point for me in a way. Pittsburgh, Kansas City, and Houston didn't tank their records to get those guys. They didn't make an RG3 like trade to get them either, Houston and KC gave up an extra first and some change. I'm not saying they were nobodies, just that blowing up and tanking for 2020 should not be the priority. A year from now can look a lot different.

 

 

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

And most of them were picked at a spot likely ahead of where the Redskins will be picking this year and next.   The on point exception to this draft might be Murray if he comes out -- another short dude, shorter than Brees-Wilson who might drop for that reason and still be there at our pick.

If you like a guy enough, then make a trade similar to houston/kansas city. Just don't mortgage the future of the franchise for the unknown. The trades those teams made is not that IMO.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, HardcoreZorn said:

I agree QB is at more of a premium than ever before, though I really do think that is going to cool down soon from a market and trading assets standpoint. Not even Aaron Rodgers can do it with a makeshift cast, so why if you are a GM would you sell out for one?

 

 

A franchise QB can't make a team without a supporting cast but the reverse isn't true either -- you can't go to the big dance typically with a meh QB with a great supporting cast.  Occasionally you see an exception.  Teams like the Jets in past years have had killer defensive lines even with good running games and still had bad records.  So yeah having a really good QB helps a lot.  The Browns have some hope now -- mostly because of Baker Mayfield.   

 

You ideally need both -- a good Qb and a good supporting cast.  And at least two good units -- so a running game and a passing game or a passing game and a good defense.  Drew Brees being a case in point -- Saints were 7-9 multiple years in a row, then all of a sudden they find Kamara and land on some good picks in the draft on the defense and now boom. 

 

4 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

 

You're kind of making my point for me in a way. Pittsburgh, Kansas City, and Houston didn't tank their records to get those guys. They didn't make an RG3 like trade to get them either, Houston and KC gave up an extra first and some change. I'm not saying they were nobodies, just that blowing up and tanking for 2020 should not be the priority. A year from now can look a lot different.

 

 

The tanking conversation to me is moot and irrelevant.  I don't think teams purposely tank.  It's that they are really really bad.  My point is I don't think its feasible to expect this team to be that bad in 2019 and 2020.   The more realsitic conversation is trading up and on that front its much easier to trade up for lets say the "perceived" third or 4th best QB as opposed to the #1 or #2 guys.  

 

It's all about playing the odds -- are the odds better that the top prospect in the draft lets say for example, Jake Fromm will end up better than the third QB taken in that draft lets say like Eason?  Sure, probably.  Is that slam dunk?  Nope.  Can you blow a pick in the 8-16 range?  Sure: Jake Locker, Ponder, EJ Manual, Josh Freeman.  Can you blow the first piece or 2nd?  Sure.  Sam Bradford, J. Winston, etc.  But the odds are better the higher up the food chain.  

 

The rest of this isn't directed your way but just launching a point.  People love to quote the QBs that have made it from the 2nd round through the 7th but if you ever go through ALL the QBs who didn't make it in those rounds -- it will make you dizzy the ratio of busts versus successes. 

 

For me personally, I'd love them to go 2-14 and draft Tua -- I've seen him play in person and about to go watch him again.  Love the talent, the personality -- love the idea of drafting him and adding one of those killer Alabama receivers in the 2020 draft.  But I don't think that's realistic.    I actually root for the NFC East teams to win towards the end of the year when I know they aren't making the playoffs.  On last year's draft thread me among others kept saying please please please Giants don't tank to the degree where they land Barkley -- and alas that's what happened.  

 

Some of our division's toughest players that we've had to deal with over the years that propped up those teams were via them having bad seasons and having a high pick -- McNabb, Eli, Elliot, Barkley -- Eagles trading up for Wentz, etc.   

 

There is a reason why top 5 picks are so coveted around the league and you have to give up so much to land one -- and that reason isn't that there isn't much difference at all between having a top 5 pick and lets say 15-20.  Not saying you are saying otherwise but just explaining my point.

 

26 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

 

If you like a guy enough, then make a trade similar to houston/kansas city. Just don't mortgage the future of the franchise for the unknown. The trades those teams made is not that IMO.

 

 

Agree.  And you got to trust that decision maker.  To me its one of the upsides of Jay staying here -- I do trust him on that front.  I read that KC was infatuated with Mahomes -- they had to have him and made the trade happen.  If there is a QB like that, go for it.  If not, don't force it. 

 

 

[skinny21]

Regarding our D, I’ve had a minor change of perspective.  I had corner and ILB as our top needs with an edge defender further down our list of needs.  

Here’s the thing though.  On 3rd and long, our DTs, along with Kerrigan (and Smith, but I’m hoping we let him walk), can push the pocket.  However, teams can/could line up in shotgun or run 7 step drops and often buy the time needed to find an open target.  That’s where the thought of adding a corner came in... but adding a corner (or replacing Norman with said corner), doesn’t solve the issue, it just ‘solves’ the coverage on one guy.  

So, I’m now leaning toward an OLB/DE that can get around the tackle in a hurry. If a qb is dropping further back to avoid the interior push, it makes it that much easier for the edge defender to get to them. 

 

Long story short, I’d put a premium on an instinctual, fast ILB to help against the outside runs, and then look for an edge defender (even ‘just’ a situational pass rusher) that can make teams pay on the 3rd and longs.  

 

Yes, improving the secondary is a must, I’m just not sure one good corner will have the same impact... especially since they might be the only good corner we’d have on the roster (though I hope to see the young guys make big strides). 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Todd McShay released his Big Board with the Top 32 prospects.  It's not looking good for teams needing offensive help.  It's a loaded defensive draft though.  Here are all of the offensive players in his Top 32.

 

#12, OT, Jonah Williams

#14, OT, Cody Ford

#18, QB, Dwayne Haskins

#20, QB, Justin Herbert

#21, OT, Greg Little

#25, OT, Jawaan Taylor

#27, WR, Marquise Brown

#29, TE, Noah Fant

#31, TE, Irv Smith Jr.

 

That's only 9 players.  That's nothing.  The first guy is 12th.  The first QB is 18th.  The first WR is 27th.  There aren't any RB's.  He does have two TE's in, which is above the average.

 

 

[nonniey]

19 hours ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

 

.... And the next two years are looking like the closest things to a Luck draft as we've seen since then (as of now, obviously this can change). At the cost of making some desperate run at a Wild Card in a loaded NFC next year, I'd much rather take a shot at a franchise-saving QB.

????? Did you mean 2020 and 2021? 2019 is certainly not thought of as a strong QB class (actually the opposite as none of the top QBs would be ranked ahead of anyone that went in the 1st round last year - and most of them shouldn't have gone in the first).  In other words we are talking about 3rd round (and lower) rated talent to choose from for the 2019 draft.

 

Edit -Rereading your post I think you did mean to say the next 2 years after 2019.

[nonniey]

47 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

Todd McShay released his Big Board with the Top 32 prospects.  It's not looking good for teams needing offensive help.  It's a loaded defensive draft though.  Here are all of the offensive players in his Top 32.

 

#12, OT, Jonah Williams

#14, OT, Cody Ford

#18, QB, Dwayne Haskins

#20, QB, Justin Herbert

#21, OT, Greg Little

#25, OT, Jawaan Taylor

#27, WR, Marquise Brown

#29, TE, Noah Fant

#31, TE, Irv Smith Jr.

 

That's only 9 players.  That's nothing.  The first guy is 12th.  The first QB is 18th.  The first WR is 27th.  There aren't any RB's.  He does have two TE's in, which is above the average.

 

 

Good year to trade out for us (For future picks).

[Cooleyfan1993]

Guessing nobody knows anything on Jalen Hurts, QB from Alabama? just trying to find out what you guys think of how he could do in the NFL, or if he’s entering the draft.