2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

13 hours ago, RWJ said:

I'd gladly like to see him as our 1st round draft pick but ONLY if he signed a letter of commitment to the NFL before the draft.  Otherwise, I think it's Jones.  I think he's the best of all the QBs in the draft though, SIP. 

 

I've been wrong before about players but if they select Jones, unless its in the 2nd round, if I was nauseous about them skipping over picking Derwin James, this would take the cake over that because at least I didn't hate the player they took in lieu of James. 

 

Jones -- an injury prone, turnover prone, questionable accuracy, self confessed non-leader type, questionable arm strength -- I don't see it.  Yeah he is a big dude, who looks the part, has a pretty motion and can move but does that really offset everything else?   The Tannehill comparison below seems apt -- I wasn't a big Tannehill guy before the draft either though didn't hate him as a player like I do Jones. Tannehill to me is the ceiling.

 

I was just reading an article that said QB's stats rarely improve from college to the pros.  So if you are like him a 57% completion guy, the previous year and a 60.5% completion guy last year -- that typically doesn't change in the pros with some exceptions -- ditto a mediocre TD-INT ratio, YPA -- having fumble issues, etc.

 

I recall some liked Jake Locker, stats weren't hot but the tools that guy had.  Arguably he had better tools than Jones, stronger arm, etc.  Bust.  Hackenberg, another dude with mediocre college stats with some tools to mold.    I was just randomly looking up good NFL Qbs, struggled to find successful ones with Jones' type of stats but I'll keep looking.  Eli's wasn't hot but it was distinctly better than Jones.

 

 

 

Here's a mock today from my fav draft web site.  This one is wild.  If they trade all the way up to #3 not sure if I'd go Murray.  do I think Murray is better than Haskins?  Yes.  but I have no concerns about Haskins' durability.  That's not though a bad haul to trade up that high.   If we got Murray, I'd risk it and wait to around #9 to see if he's still there or whatever position that doesn't demand giving up a 2020 first.

 

 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/2019/02/11/sikkemas-2019-nfl-mock-draft-6-0/

3. Washington Redskins (via NYJ): Kyler Murray, QB, Oklahoma

*TRADE* NYJ send No. 3 to WAS for No. 15, No. 46 and a first rounder in 2020.

Unless Washington wants to start *checks notes* 32 year old Josh Johnson for an entire season in 2019, they better draft a quarterback, and in this class they better draft one high.

Alex Smith isn’t playing in 2019. There’s just no way. He might not even play again with that leg injury. With Smith commanding $20 million in cap space, it’s unlikely they’ll be able to sign a big name quarterback in free agency either.

That brings us to the draft and the desperation to get into the Top 5. If Washington is trading one second rounder this year and one first rounder next year to move up, you can bet they’re going to swing for the fences with which guy they choose.

That’s Kyler Murray.

 

[OVCChairman]

16 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Here's a mock today from my fav draft web site.  This one is wild.  If they trade all the way up to #3 not sure if I'd go Murray.  do I think Murray is better than Haskins?  Yes.  but I have no concerns about Haskins' durability.  That's not though a bad haul to trade up that high.   If we got Murray, I'd risk it and wait to around #9 to see if he's still there or whatever position that doesn't demand giving up a 2020 first.

 

 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/2019/02/11/sikkemas-2019-nfl-mock-draft-6-0/

3. Washington Redskins (via NYJ): Kyler Murray, QB, Oklahoma

*TRADE* NYJ send No. 3 to WAS for No. 15, No. 46 and a first rounder in 2020.

Unless Washington wants to start *checks notes* 32 year old Josh Johnson for an entire season in 2019, they better draft a quarterback, and in this class they better draft one high.

Alex Smith isn’t playing in 2019. There’s just no way. He might not even play again with that leg injury. With Smith commanding $20 million in cap space, it’s unlikely they’ll be able to sign a big name quarterback in free agency either.

That brings us to the draft and the desperation to get into the Top 5. If Washington is trading one second rounder this year and one first rounder next year to move up, you can bet they’re going to swing for the fences with which guy they choose.

That’s Kyler Murray.

 

 

 

please no. 

 

Because we're the Redskins, this would all but INSURE that Murray doesn't work out for us.  I really REALLY hope we don't do something like this. 

 

If you want to move up to 9-ish and not give up next years 1st, like you suggested, I guess I could swallow that, but next years crop of QBs is just too talented at the top to remove yourself from the discussion this far ahead.  There's very little they could do that could piss me off in this draft and there's a handful of things they could do that would seriously worry me... this would be an example of the latter. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

My honest gut feeling is we are going offense early in this draft and will go defense in fa. 

 

That said, I also think, aside from the RG3 trade (pre Williams and Gruden anyway) our FO always opts for a trade down (even from Watt to Kerrigan). I think we stay at 15 and if Murray is there we take him. But my guess is if Murray is gone, we try to trade out of the pick ... move back into the late 1st and add a 2 or a 3/4 combo. 

 

For whatever reason im thinking it’s Murray at 15 or Stidham in the 3rd. So we may try to move back to end of 1 to better BPA a WR/TE/LG and add picks while doing so. 

 

Stidham May be a longer view play so adding more depth on offense to help is ideal. Murray would be a win now(ish) move that would still require assets on offense but maybe not as many to help him thrive. 

 

Big FA: Edge, S, ILB

Early draft: QB, WR, TE, LG

 

late draft/cheap FA: SS, CB, DL

[Going Commando]

On 2/9/2019 at 8:21 PM, mistertim said:

 

I'm not overly impressed with Ferrell. He has really good size, length and good strength but he isn't all that fluid, his hips are a bit stiff, and he has average burst off of the line. Also if you watch those highlights above you can see that a ton of those plays were made either off of stunts or when he was 1 on 1 with a TE...a DE/Edge rusher should damn well be able to beat a TE 1 on 1. He seems like a safe high effort guy with good technique who will also be able to set the edge in the run game but who won't be anyone the opposing team has to game plan around or anything. 

 

Those are guys we already have in Kerrigan and Smith. What we've really been missing for a long time is a physical freak type of pass rusher with lots of explosion and ability to bend the edge. 

 

I don't see an issue with speed, but I do agree that he's a stiffer rusher who has a natural long stride and has a hard time sinking his hips and making the turn against tackles with good feet.  His fifth and sixth steps are too big and it's leaving him unbalanced at the turn.

 

This is why I think tall rushers like him have so much more trouble flattening out compared to the shorter, more compact rushers like Jachai Polite.

 

The more I see of both him and Montez Sweat, the more they remind me of each other.  They have a lot of the same strength and weaknesses, but with Sweat I see a more polished pass rusher, but much less motor.

 

I like this breakdown that Voch Lombardi does on Clelin Ferrell.  He makes the same initial comparison to Everson Griffen that I did, and I think that's a good portrait of what Clelin's ceiling could be (although Clelin is bigger and has more upside as a run defender IMO).  Another comparison I see with Clelin is Tamba Hali.

 

 

He does a really good job of breaking down Clelin's weaknesses, particularly the one that I think I think is his biggest issue: lack of pass rushing polish and repertoire.  He gets stymied when the first move fails, and there is no go to counter he can run in his sleep that can revert to.  Voch Lombardi calls it lacking a plan--that he's just going up to the LoS with the only thought of jumping the snap and that he doesn't think beyond the first move.

 

Clelin has high end collegiate production, and I think he's basically just been making plays off of speed, strength, instincts, and ferocity.  He's probably got the best motor of any of the DLs in the class.  The snap to snap focus and intensity that he brings are ideal.  Lombardi has a term he calls ball-getoff that he explains in that video, other people use the term snap quickness, first step, etc.  You see Clelin's consistent, every down focus and intensity play out in his very consistent ball-getoff.  He needs to take the next step and deepen his approach on each snap and read tackles better and play with more anticipation.  And he also needs to expand his repertoire and become a better hand-fighter.

 

It's important to recognize that Clelin's issues are coachable, and common to college players.  Not everyone has an NFL dad training their mechanics from birth like the Bosas.  But he's got a gear and a motor that they do not have.  You can work on his hands and repertoire and you can get him rushing smarter, but you can't coach that kind of effort.  He just has the hunger and the killer instinct it takes to dominate.  Another special thing about him is that he's clutch.  He's got an extra gear that he can reach in big moments and big games--he kind of carried his defense with him on that first championship run.  It wouldn't shock me if he ends up being one of the best players from this year's class.

[Darth Tater]

2 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

That said, I also think, aside from the RG3 trade (pre Williams and Gruden anyway) our FO always opts for a trade down (even from Watt to Kerrigan). I think we stay at 15 and if Murray is there we take him. But my guess is if Murray is gone, we try to trade out of the pick ... move back into the late 1st and add a 2 or a 3/4 combo. 

whatever reason im thinking it’s Murray at 15 or Stidham in the 3rd. So we may try to move back to end of 1 to better BPA a WR/TE/LG and add picks while doing so. 

 

Kerrigan's rookie year was the only year he got to play most of a full year with good guys and even then we did not have a true NT and a mediocre DC (being nice).  Watt played his first three years under a good DC and with several good defensive guys. If we'd stayed at 10 and taken Watt, we'd likely be bemoaning the fact we'd taken Watt over Kerrigan.  Also, in this alternate world, we'd likely be upset that we could have had Kerrigan plus Sherman assuming we knew the final outcome of the trade. Selecting Gomes over Sherman was the mistake in our world. While Watt is now on track for the HOF now, in 2011 he was far from a hands down choice over other players available. It was Blaine Gabbert we bypassed anyway.

[RWJ]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've been wrong before about players but if they select Jones, unless its in the 2nd round, if I was nauseous about them skipping over picking Derwin James, this would take the cake over that because at least I didn't hate the player they took in lieu of James. 

 

Jones -- an injury prone, turnover prone, questionable accuracy, self confessed non-leader type, questionable arm strength -- I don't see it.  Yeah he is a big dude, who looks the part, has a pretty motion and can move but does that really offset everything else?   The Tannehill comparison below seems apt -- I wasn't a big Tannehill guy before the draft either though didn't hate him as a player like I do Jones. Tannehill to me is the ceiling.

 

I was just reading an article that said QB's stats rarely improve from college to the pros.  So if you are like him a 57% completion guy, the previous year and a 60.5% completion guy last year -- that typically doesn't change in the pros with some exceptions -- ditto a mediocre TD-INT ratio, YPA -- having fumble issues, etc.

 

I recall some liked Jake Locker, stats weren't hot but the tools that guy had.  Arguably he had better tools than Jones, stronger arm, etc.  Bust.  Hackenberg, another dude with mediocre college stats with some tools to mold.    I was just randomly looking up good NFL Qbs, struggled to find successful ones with Jones' type of stats but I'll keep looking.  Eli's wasn't hot but it was distinctly better than Jones.

 

 

 

SIP, I think maybe you might have misunderstood me.  I was saying I think the SKINS will take Jones and think he's the best QB in the draft.  Maybe you didn't misunderstand me.   I do like Murray a lot and think he would be the go to guy.  We would need to assure that we have someone else that plays his type of game in case he got injured.  Josh Johnson might fit that profile or maybe Tyrod Taylor, whom I think might.  Big question mark.  If they didn't select Murray I, I like Lock as the 2nd QB.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

32 minutes ago, RWJ said:

SIP, I think maybe you might have misunderstood me.  I was saying I think the SKINS will take Jones and think he's the best QB in the draft.  Maybe you didn't misunderstand me.   I do like Murray a lot and think he would be the go to guy.  We would need to assure that we have someone else that plays his type of game in case he got injured.  Josh Johnson might fit that profile or maybe Tyrod Taylor, whom I think might.  Big question mark.  If they didn't select Murray I, I like Lock as the 2nd QB.

 

Thanks, though I did get what you were getting at. I know you weren't say Jones is your guy but saying he'd be the Redskins guy.   I sadly think you might be right.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Going Commando]

Whether he loved football more or not, I think it was always clear that Murray would play football if he went in the first round because the money is so much better.  But I think he likes football more than baseball too.

[Est.1974]

5 hours ago, OVCChairman said:

 

Because we're the Redskins, this would all but INSURE that Murray doesn't work out for us.  I really REALLY hope we don't do something like this. 

 

If we pick Murray, the first thing we'd have to do is INSURE him. God help him here.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

Have seen multiple mentions that DK Metcalf is some sort of weight lifting freak.  But recalling the Laron Landry drill here -- it could be a double edge sword.  If Metcalf shows up big on 3 cone, broad jump, etc -- that would get my attention.  Is he strong, fast and agile?  

 

 

 

[skinny21]

Honestly, I don’t really care too much what a player looks like after lifting.... but damn if Metcalf doesn’t look like a superhero.  

[Skinsinparadise]

25 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Honestly, I don’t really care too much what a player looks like after lifting.... but damn if Metcalf doesn’t look like a superhero.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Poindexter]

4 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Honestly, I don’t really care too much what a player looks like after lifting.... but damn if Metcalf doesn’t look like a superhero.  

He's my first pick.  What pops out at me is how easily he gets off of press coverage.  He's fast, physical, more than adequate run blocker and I would hate to tackle him in the open field.  If he runs well at the combine and he is a legit 6'4 then I don't think he will be there at #15. 

 

Round 1:  DK Metcalf  WR  Ole Miss

Round 2:  Nasir Adderley  FS  Deleware       

Round 3:  Garrett Bradbury  C  NC State     

Round 3:  Jarrett Stidham  QB  Auburn         

Round 5:  Ryan Bates  OT/OG  Penn State   

Round 5:  Porter Gustin  OLB  USC               

Round 6:  Tyler Clark  DE  Georgia                 

Round 7:  Myles Gaskin  RB  Washington      

Round 7:  Ulysees Gilbert  ILB  Akron       

[OVCChairman]

1 hour ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

If we pick Murray, the first thing we'd have to do is INSURE him. God help him here.

 

 

sorry, ENSURE.... typo 

[crabbypatty]

Please no to Murray.

I love his arm and speed, and I hate to say it, but watching him gives me flashbacks of RG3. Not because of the trade (though I thought it was way too high at the time)

but because of how RG would get obliterated any time he ran the ball, which was often. I see the same in the pros with Murray, except he's tiny and maybe 190lbs soaking wet.

Electrifying agility and quickness, along with a good arm, but I see way too much tuck & run with that guy, He'd be lucky to last half a season with our OL and TE's blocking for him.

 

Some other thoughts:

I like Polite, his speed and shoulder dip to get around the corner are real nice.

I don't like that he seems to be one of those drag tacklers, even when it comes to qb's. You don't see him bury guys, he maybe gets an arm or hand on them and brings them down.. I guess a lack of physicality based on what I've seen so far.

Not sold on Jones, I get he's a big qb that looks the part, but he reminds me way too much of Jason Campbell. Big guy, bad decision making and accuracy. It was infuriating to watch Campbell overthrow Moss by a good 10 yards one play, then do short yardage dumpoffs the next 9. I see Jones as a slightly less conservative JC.

Absolutely love Drew Lock.

What a cannon. He's got the size and arm to get the job done. His decision making can be coached up I'm sure with a friendly offensive scheme.

If he's there at 15 he's the guy.

If not I wouldn't have a problem with one of the 2nd or 3rd tier guys later in the draft. They couldn't do any worse than Alex did, and would certainly be an upgrade over McCoy and Johnson.

 

May I burn in hell for saying it, but I really wish we could find a guy like Dak in rd 3+. He's no Rodgers, but he's big, strong and accurate ENOUGH, and is poised under pressure and can come up with the occasional wow throw sprinkled in here and there. I really think with the RB's we have and possibly adding another one this year (sorry Kelley, Perine, you gotta go) A young rookie with Dak like qualities could get the job done. Look what Dak did with Elliot, I could envision our new rookie doing the same with Peterson/Guice/rookie.

I love the rocket armed qb's as much as anyone else, but those guys are incredibly rare. And our luck with getting them has been exactly nil for the last 30+ years.

 

Give me a "good enough" guy with moxie. A guy who is not the best passer but is a good sized, strong armed cool customer. Mechanics and all that can be taught. A guy like that will not cost a ton, and will allow us to upgrade other positions, Edge, OG, WR, TE, ILB..

So who's the most Dak like guy this year? Stidham? Finley?

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Fresh8686]

I'm loving the talk of Redskins going other than QB in the first from some of the more recent articles.

If y'all had to choose between Clelin Ferrell and Jachai Polite, who would y'all choose? 

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, skinny21 said:

Honestly, I don’t really care too much what a player looks like after lifting.... but damn if Metcalf doesn’t look like a superhero.  

 

That looks photoshopped.  But it's a testament to how much of a brick house real life DK Metcalf is that the photo looks plausible.

[Est.1974]

Is Murray actually going to get past the Cardinals at #1. I think he is on a promise already. 

[Skinsinparadise]

56 minutes ago, crabbypatty said:

 

Give me a "good enough" guy with moxie. A guy who is not the best passer but is a good sized, strong armed cool customer. Mechanics and all that can be taught. A guy like that will not cost a ton, and will allow us to upgrade other positions, Edge, OG, WR, TE, ILB..

So who's the most Dak like guy this year? Stidham? Finley?

 

 

As for a Dak comp, I presume you are looking for some movement skills, too?  If so that would rule out Finley to a degree though he's not completely stiff.   As for training mechanics -- I just stumbled on an article about Minshew and Ta'amu training together under the same tutor.   They are in a town about 20 minutes away from where I live, I should try to crash this. 😀

 

Jordan Ta-amu. Minschew have good movement in the pocket -- guessing 3rd-5th round range.  

 

Mastrole has the quarterbacks tying tension bands to the cart, which is immobilized thanks to the medicine balls. The quarterbacks will then hold a band in their left hands and a football in their right as they drop back and throw. If a QB’s front side opens too early prior to his throw, the band will tell on him by losing tension. If he doesn’t generate enough torque with his core, the band will tell on him. Earlier in the day in Boca Raton, Mastrole has former Washington State quarterback Gardner Minshew and former Ole Miss quarterback Jordan Ta’amu holding bands that are tied to a wall in their left hands and towels in their right. They go through the motion of a throw, and if they do it correctly, the towel will snap at the point where they would release the ball. If not? “If they’re smacking the bands with the towel, then they’re breaking down,” Mastrole says.

 

...Minshew, meanwhile, excelled in an Air Raid offense that produced Mahomes and Kliff Kingsbury, who was just hired to coach the Arizona Cardinals. At 6'1" and 224 pounds, he’s sturdily built—especially in his lower body—and in person, he looks faster than he did playing for Washington State. He doesn’t have anywhere near the freakish arm talent of Mahomes, but Minshew does have a near photographic memory that should wow coaches in meetings. Like McSorley, Minshew also needs to prove he has a bigger arm than he showed in college. But for a guy who thought he might spend 2018 as a backup at Alabama and then eventually slide into coaching, Minshew has an awfully strong chance to turn quarterbacking into a longer career than even he may have anticipated.

 

...Ta’amu, meanwhile, has decent size (6'2", 210) and the best arm of the group. He was productive (9.4 yards an attempt) and accurate (63.6 completion percentage) in 2018, but he did that with a receiving corps that was as good as some NFL teams’. He also did it playing in a relatively simple offense that didn’t ask him to handle the same workload that an NFL quarterback would prior to the snap. Ta’amu must learn how to adjust protections and how to read an entire defense. A team that needs him to play right away would be setting him up to fail, but a team that can take him as a developmental pick and bring him along more slowly could wind up with a gem in a few years. The question for Ta’amu is whether he’ll be able to process everything he needs to process as an NFL quarterback. It’s impossible to know that now because he’s never been asked to do it. But those silky throws will get him on a roster, and then he’ll get a chance to prove himself.

 

https://www.si.com/college-football/2019/02/11/nfl-draft-quarterbacks-trace-mcsorley-nick-fitzgerald

6 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

Is Murray actually going to get past the Cardinals at #1. I think he is on a promise already. 

 

That's one of the things speculated on twitter about.   Though Kingsbury has come down hard later that Rosen is his guy.  Should be an interesting 2.5 months or so.  The challenge is reading through the smoke since it behooves teams like the Cardinals and Raiders to act like they are interested in Murray-Haskins even if they aren't -- or a team like the Jets for example would want to leak a rumor of the Raiders interest in a QB to garner interest in their pick.  You want to create trade leverage.

[Going Commando]

12 minutes ago, Fresh8686 said:

I'm loving the talk of Redskins going other than QB in the first from some of the more recent articles.

If y'all had to choose between Clelin Ferrell and Jachai Polite, who would y'all choose? 

 

That's a good question.  And it's a choice we very well might have to make.  I would go with Clelin personally.  Jachai is faster and more flexible and explosive but his play strength and arm length are significantly worse, and thus I think he's not as NFL ready as Clelin and his bust potential is a lot higher.

 

Jachai probably has more NFL-ready rush tools though.  He's got a spin move and some other stuff going on that means he'll probably get more sacks early on in his career.  But he's also probably going to have to come off the field for run downs.  He's going to be a specialist whereas Clelin will have a spot in every package.

 

There are also some mutterings about character concerns with Jachai that could be a factor in the comparison.  Clelin's pretty clean on that end of things.  And his history of competitive success at the college level is extraordinary.

 

Clelin has a fair bit of sloppy weight on him.  It effects his conditioning and his agility and range.  He's going to need to get on a grown-up diet and lose a bunch of weight and let an NFL strength and conditioning program hone him, but that's a pretty straightforward transition.  Jachai is going to have to add quite a bit of bulk and strength without losing speed, which is harder IMO.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Est.1974]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

That's one of the things speculated on twitter about.   Though Kingsbury has come down hard later that Rosen is his guy.  Should be an interesting 2.5 months or so.  The challenge is reading through the smoke since it behooves teams like the Cardinals and Raiders to act like they are interested in Murray-Haskins even if they aren't -- or a team like the Jets for example would want to leak a rumor of the Raiders interest in a QB to garner interest in their pick.  You want to create trade leverage.

 

I seriously think Rosen is dead man walking. The cards can even keep him around, most of his contract is a sunk upfront cost and he'd be cheaper than most vet back ups. If Murray creates a truck load of hype, nails the pre draft process, and becomes the prized asset heading into the draft, I mean it would take some brave, or stupid, teams to pass him over.

 

I agree about the trade leverage, but picking #1 if you fall in love with a QB you are without doubt just picking him.