NBC: At least nine dead in Santa Fe High School Shooting

[TradeTheBeal!]

*enact folksy anecdote protocol*

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

14 hours ago, Kosher Ham said:

What the **** is wrong with some of you? 

 

Politics and gun control are not for this thread. 

 

This thread is about the situation. The political part makes me laugh, the gun control part makes me nauseous. 

 

Next thing you know someone will tell us that they are "woke". 

/rant. 

 

I don't see how you can untie the two.

a

Besides we know who did it, where he did it, and whom he did it to. If you care about these things, we have a general idea of why. I don't know what else there is to talk about on the shooting itself except it took place in a suburb very much like mine on the other side of Beltway 8.

 

[Renegade7]

It's tough because   @skinsmarydu    told me why there isn't an all encompasing mass murdrer thread (for people in the area looking to see what's going on, especially concerning loved ones).  This thread will eventually take its course once we have all the information we need to discuss what to do about it in the Gun Control thread.  We aren't there yet, I want to know about his mental health, especially anything concerning CTE.  And like @Lombardi's_kid_brother mentioned, this is extremely close to home for him, so I'm keeping that in perspective.

[No Excuses]

14 hours ago, Kosher Ham said:

What the **** is wrong with some of you? 

 

Politics and gun control are not for this thread. 

 

This thread is about the situation. The political part makes me laugh, the gun control part makes me nauseous. 

 

Next thing you know someone will tell us that they are "woke". 

/rant. 

 

Poltics and gun control talk are for every mass shooting thread because it happens literally every month at this point. And one political party has decided to hold everyone hostage because they are balls deep into the pockets of the gun manufacturing lobby. 

 

We keep hearing “mental health” yet congress under Republican control does **** all on that end too. 

[Renegade7]

2 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

We keep hearing “mental health” yet congress under Republican control does **** all on that end too. 

 

I hate when politicians dive head first into that excuse while cutting funding for it.  They aren't trying to help anyone that's not giving them money for their campaign, you can easily tell which ones I'm talking about at this point.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

After the past three years, I'm an expert on the mental health field. There are thousands of wonderful mental health professionals in this country. And it's damn near impossible for anyone who needs them to connect with them. And once you connect with them, you can't afford them.

 

Residential treatment is not covered by insurance and costs around $10K a month. Can you afford that? No, you can't. If you made Predicto money, you couldn't afford that.

 

I currently pay about $500 monthly out of pocket on psychiatric services. Since my kids came out of Foster Care, I was able to keep them on Medicaid. I do so because they are on 8 medications between them, and Medicaid pays without blinking and there is no copay. The psychiatrist and therapist we use don't take private insurance regardless.

 

I'm a healthcare attorney by the way as is my wife. We know how to navigate this and after five years finally sort of have it under control. Though we just had to take our daughter in for a total overhaul of her meds, because she was at that point where they just don't work any longer. That happens yearly or so.

 

I don't know how a normal parent could ever figure this out.

[Renegade7]

I'm now up to three meds and its eating past my HSA every month now.  If trying to figure this out wasn't so expensive (spent most of my 20s without health insurance), I might of stopped trying to figure it out on my own much earlier (it was part denial, part unrealistic anyway).  I had to drop all therapy and focus on psychiatrist and meds, I can't afford their recommendations.  It's BS.

 

When you have kids with mental health issues, you basically have a window to figure out what you're dealing from doctors that in many cases are reluctant to make official diagnosis due to so many changes in the kid's body and environment growing up (which results in a ****tail of drugs at one of the most sensitive development stages in anyone's life).  At a certain age, you need the kid's approval for certain things, then once they're an adult, they can take or not take help from you at all. 

 

You aren't just trying to save their life, your staring at an hourglass the entire time while doing it.  And that's if you even know what you're dealing with or the resources to even make a difference.  My parents were in denial because of trying to compare me to my mom and almost lost me because of it, there's nothing about this that's fool-proof.  I plan on still having kids despite the possibility of me passing this on to them because quite frankly, there's nothing fool-proof about raising a teenager anyway.  Do what you can, hope for the best.

[Bozo the kKklown]

 

[twa]

A lovely piece of writing, I wonder if those present concur.

There is indeed no silver bullet though.

[Larry]

1 hour ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

 

 

Pointing out that a sustained gun battle with good guys that lasted 25 minutes might very well have saved a dozen lives. 

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Personally, I think every school should have two SRO assigned to it.  One stays inside, one patrols outside at all times.  Along with locking down/securing the school during school hours (which a lot of schools do).  Also properly arming the SROs with weapons that level the playing field.  Any SRO only armed with their service weapon is at a severe tactical disadvantage to a shooter with a semi-automatic rifle and large capacity magazines.

 

As for the SRO patrolling inside, allow them to place a secure strongbox with proper gear/guns in a location only they know about, in case a shooter manages to gain access inside.  The SRO outside will do just that, secure the perimeter and watch over the kids when outside for recess.  And if possible, metal detectors at every school.

[MEANDWARF]

5 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

Personally, I think every school should have two SRO assigned to it.  One stays inside, one patrols outside at all times.  Along with locking down/securing the school during school hours (which a lot of schools do).  Also properly arming the SROs with weapons that level the playing field.  Any SRO only armed with their service weapon is at a severe tactical disadvantage to a shooter with a semi-automatic rifle and large capacity magazines.

 

As for the SRO patrolling inside, allow them to place a secure strongbox with proper gear/guns in a location only they know about, in case a shooter manages to gain access inside.  The SRO outside will do just that, secure the perimeter and watch over the kids when outside for recess.  And if possible, metal detectors at every school.

Throw in zero tolerance for bullying in any form, I'm in!

[tshile]

@Lombardi's_kid_brother bless you

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

1 hour ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

Personally, I think every school should have two SRO assigned to it.  One stays inside, one patrols outside at all times.  Along with locking down/securing the school during school hours (which a lot of schools do).  Also properly arming the SROs with weapons that level the playing field.  Any SRO only armed with their service weapon is at a severe tactical disadvantage to a shooter with a semi-automatic rifle and large capacity magazines.

 

As for the SRO patrolling inside, allow them to place a secure strongbox with proper gear/guns in a location only they know about, in case a shooter manages to gain access inside.  The SRO outside will do just that, secure the perimeter and watch over the kids when outside for recess.  And if possible, metal detectors at every school.

 

Katy ISD has a full police force. 50 officers and 44 security guards.

 

http://www.katyisd.org/dept/police/Pages/About-Us.aspx

 

We have 63 schools. So, we'd need to hire at least 30 more people to have two people permanently assigned to each school. Probably would need 100 more officers since the police patrol after school activities and such. That seems like an insane use of tax dollars (Though not as insane as the $70 million football stadium we just built. Seriously, it seats 15,000 and is nicer than FedEx).

 

Again, the solution keeps coming back to turning the schools into prisons.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

1 hour ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

Katy ISD has a full police force. 50 officers and 44 security guards.

 

http://www.katyisd.org/dept/police/Pages/About-Us.aspx

 

We have 63 schools. So, we'd need to hire at least 30 more people to have two people permanently assigned to each school. Probably would need 100 more officers since the police patrol after school activities and such. That seems like an insane use of tax dollars (Though not as insane as the $70 million football stadium we just built. Seriously, it seats 15,000 and is nicer than FedEx).

 

Again, the solution keeps coming back to turning the schools into prisons.

 

I was in a rush when I posted that.  And that takes us to the bigger problem, budget.  Where is the funding going to come from to allow for more LEOs, metal detectors, etc.  Another point (which I think you made with the football stadium), priorities and where they lie.  

 

We have a gazillion school districts that can't even afford updated books, materials, etc., where are they going to get the money to improve student safety?  

[twa]

2 hours ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

I was in a rush when I posted that.  And that takes us to the bigger problem, budget.  Where is the funding going to come from to allow for more LEOs, metal detectors, etc.  Another point (which I think you made with the football stadium), priorities and where they lie.  

 

We have a gazillion school districts that can't even afford updated books, materials, etc., where are they going to get the money to improve student safety?  

 

That is why arming select teachers /staff is needed, besides the fact two SRO's on a large campus is thin coverage.

 

metal detectors are cheap, relative to security salaries

 

[Renegade7]

4 hours ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

I was in a rush when I posted that.  And that takes us to the bigger problem, budget.  Where is the funding going to come from to allow for more LEOs, metal detectors, etc.  Another point (which I think you made with the football stadium), priorities and where they lie.  

 

We have a gazillion school districts that can't even afford updated books, materials, etc., where are they going to get the money to improve student safety?  

This is where federal subsudies need to come in, but states do need to step up concerning other measures like re-inforcing glass and setting up for vistors to be buzzed in instead of just walking in.  For smaller districts, 2 security personnel is not realistic (not if it nearly doubles the entire communities police force).  One should be enough if they can't get in, that has to be the goal first, if they get in, people are dying.

 

@Lombardi's_kid_brother  is the metal detector thing a deal breaker for you?  Is there anyway you'd be cool with schools doing that?  I get the concern, I just don't know how else to address this as anything else that allows the shooter in the building with the weapon is considerably more expensive from a money and likely casualty standpoint.  There's got to be a way we can compromise on that so kids don't feel intimidated by the whole thing (I know what you're talking about, sometimes it felt like the people checking my bag at Hines wanted a reason to beat my ass, but it wasn't all of them, most just doing their job, taking it seriously because they wanted to protect us).

[Zguy28]

Metal detector isn't going to stop a kid purpose bent on bringing a rifle into school and unleashing.

[Renegade7]

Just now, Zguy28 said:

Metal detector isn't going to stop a kid purpose bent on bringing a rifle into school and unleashing.

It does in the inner city, why are ya'll so adamant it won't work anywhere else?

[Zguy28]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

It does in the inner city, why are ya'll so adamant it won't work anywhere else?

I'm not, I think its a good thing. If its a deterrent, I'm all for it. But it is not a magic pill for sure.

[Renegade7]

6 minutes ago, Zguy28 said:

I'm not, I think its a good thing. If its a deterrent, I'm all for it. But it is not a magic pill for sure.

Fair, I hope everytime I bring this up people ain't assuming that's all we have to do.  I've said repeatedly we at least need to do that, not stop there.

 

We don't have the resources to prepare every school to handle a shooter once they are already inside, keeping them from getting in is cheaper and far more realistic.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

I dont have kids and one reason is I don't know that I am ready to bring kids into this **** world. I surely don't want them having to go to a school with metal detectors and multiple armed guards patrolling the hallways. I'm sure we will be headed toward daily locker and bag checks or frisks eventually once shootings happen despite metal detectors. 

 

Is that supposed to be freedom? A positive learning environment?

 

What the hell are we doing here people...

[Renegade7]

3 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

I dont have kids and one reason is I don't know that I am ready to bring kids into this **** world. I surely don't want them having to go to a school with metal detectors and multiple armed guards patrolling the hallways. I'm sure we will be headed toward daily locker and bag checks or frisks eventually once shootings happen despite metal detectors. 

 

Is that supposed to be freedom? A positive learning environment?

 

What the hell are we doing here people...

 

I don't blame you, my brother feels the same way.

 

Thing is, there's a medium between what you're talking about and doing nothing.  Random locker checks is nothing new, they did it at both my high schools in woodbridge, my nephew talked about how they did it at his school in Virginia Beach.  There's doesn't need to be multiple armed personnel roaming the hallways, focus should be on keeping them from getting in. 

 

I get that a lot of people don't want to do this, I don't want to do it, but our hand is getting forced on this one.  If we choose to focus on the why more then the what, the what will keep happening and at an increasing rate.  We have to start somewhere, this is too large an issue to wait until we have it all figured out.  Maybe we get lucky and don't have to have metal detectors forever.  Maybe.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

It does in the inner city, why are ya'll so adamant it won't work anywhere else?

 

Let's be honest: we don't know what type of violence takes place on a regular basis in an inner-city school because no one reports on that. It's similar to how black women seemingly never go missing.

 

They don't seem to have mass shootings. But they also don't seem to, like, graduate students either.

 

I don't understand why copying the poorest schools in the country is good, but copying Sweden is, like, bad.

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

 

I get that a lot of people don't want to do this, I don't want to do it, but our hand is getting forced on this one.  If we choose to focus on the why more then the what, the what will keep happening and at an increasing rate.  We have to start somewhere, this is too large an issue to wait until we have it all figured out.  Maybe we get lucky and don't have to have metal detectors forever.  Maybe.

 

If only we could find one common thread linking all these crimes? If only there was something we could realistically do from a policy standpoint?

 

Nope, nothing.

 

Nude searches of all students is what we're needing here.

[Renegade7]

1 minute ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

Let's be honest: we don't know what type of violence takes place on a regular basis in an inner-city school because no one reports on that. It's similar to how black women seemingly never go missing.

 

They don't seem to have mass shootings. But they also don't seem to, like, graduate students either.

 

I don't understand why copying the poorest schools in the country is good, but copying Sweden is, like, bad.

 

That's a fair question, but we aren't Sweden.

 

We can take things from them that work from an education standpoint, but that's not the same as a security standpoint.  School violence and Education scores in someone are related, but I wouldn't go so far as to say cause an effect there.  You have failing schools that don't have the same threat of school violence, and excellent schools that have mass shootings.

 

But you're point is valid, we shouldn't be taking everything that goes on in the inner-city and apply it to all the other districts, but if we're going to look to what works in some place like Sweden for certain issues on education in general, it would be wise to look at the inner-city to see what's working for them from a security standpoint.  The hard part is how to incorporate that without become Sweden or the inner-city.  

 

I can't go digging too much right now, but you're right that a lot of the stats concerning violent crime in schools isn't being updated like other information, but it is going down.  I can tell you my own experience, we fought at Hines and hoped to be on the same page before we left in fear someone would go home get something and meet us outside. Graduation rates are also going up in DC, but that's for a lot of unrelated reasons.