NBC: At least nine dead in Santa Fe High School Shooting

[twa]

in the inner city it moves the shootings into the streets in many cases

[Larry]

I could reluctantly get behind treating every school child like an airline passenger.  

 

It will be a PITA.  And expensive.  And I could see it putting an undue burden on small schools.  

 

But it has the advantage that it might work.  (Or at least help.  I'm well aware that demanding perfection is a sure fire way to make sure nothing gets done.  And I'm not the NRA.)   (Might not work, too.  I could see maybe the result will be that the next mass shooter will simply shoot a bunch of kids in the bus loading zone.  Or on a school bus.)  

 

I think I'll pay for it with the new tax I'm going to put on gun ownership.  

 

I mean, after all, if doing this is the price we have to pay, so that people can enjoy their hobby, then it's fair to expect said hobbyists to pay for it.  Right?  

 

Oh, and I'll have to maintain a database of the owner of every single gun, too.  So I can collect the tax.  

[Renegade7]

28 minutes ago, twa said:

in the inner city it moves the shootings into the streets in many cases

That's a completely different problem that we won't be able to solve in this thread.  I appreciate you bringing up points that should not be lost in these discussions, but that one doesnt help at all.  Would you rather them get shot inside the school or outside the school is what your asking and thats the wrong question.

[Larry]

38 minutes ago, twa said:

in the inner city it moves the shootings into the streets in many cases

 

Yeah, I remember when Florida passed the first CC law, there were unintended consequences.  

 

For a while, there, there was a rash of people getting shot or robbed as they came out of airports.  (I mean, it's like the robbers wanted people who they knew would be unarmed, or something.)  

 

And at the time, rental cars in Florida had license plates that started with "R".  There was a trend of people causing fender benders with rental cars, and then robbing the drivers when they stopped to exchange information.  (Under the theory that people driving rental cars aren't from around here.)  

[Llevron]

I haven't been in a high school for years but when I was going to Oxon Hill we didnt think about shooting each other because we had the leadership that cared about us and the situation we found ourselves in. 

 

To this day I can find Ms. Brown and she will ask me about my mother, ask me if I miss my brother and that it will be ok, and tell me I need to brush my hair. 

 

I dont think kids get that anymore in any school district and that's a shame. I think it makes a difference. But again, I haven't been in high school in over a decade. 

[Renegade7]

20 minutes ago, Llevron said:

I dont think kids get that anymore in any school district and that's a shame. I think it makes a difference. But again, I haven't been in high school in over a decade. 

 

As a son of a teacher and multiple teachers in my family, I can tell you that there are teachers that still do that and even in the inner city.  I can also tell you they know they can't protect them once they walk out that door everyday and the kids know that.

[tshile]

1 hour ago, Larry said:

I mean, after all, if doing this is the price we have to pay, so that people can enjoy their hobby, then it's fair to expect said hobbyists to pay for it.  Right?

 

Except it's not an issue of a hobby, it's an issue of a right.

 

I realize categorizing it as a hobby makes your idea easier, but you're going to have the courts to contend with pending any new interpretation of the 2nd amendment (by said courts.)

[Bozo the kKklown]

40 minutes ago, Llevron said:

I haven't been in a high school for years but when I was going to Oxon Hill we didnt think about shooting each other because we had the leadership that cared about us and the situation we found ourselves in. 

 

To this day I can find Ms. Brown and she will ask me about my mother, ask me if I miss my brother and that it will be ok, and tell me I need to brush my hair. 

 

I dont think kids get that anymore in any school district and that's a shame. I think it makes a difference. But again, I haven't been in high school in over a decade. 

You went to Oxon Hill? What class?

[tshile]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

That's a completely different problem that we won't be able to solve in this thread.  I appreciate you bringing up points that should not be lost in these discussions, but that one doesnt help at all.  Would you rather them get shot inside the school or outside the school is what your asking and thats the wrong question.

 

It doesn't sound like the wrong question if we're recognizing the enormous cost and burden it places on the school (including the children.)

 

If turning schools into prison-like-structures only moves the issue, why is this worth it? What unforeseen cost to our (already sub par by my standards) education system and future generations are we imposing and at what gain? To make people feel better that at least it's not happening inside the school? 

 

Maybe i'm looking at it all wrong and being too cynical, but I certainly don't think it's the wrong question to ask.

42 minutes ago, Llevron said:

I haven't been in a high school for years but when I was going to Oxon Hill we didnt think about shooting each other because we had the leadership that cared about us and the situation we found ourselves in. 

 

To this day I can find Ms. Brown and she will ask me about my mother, ask me if I miss my brother and that it will be ok, and tell me I need to brush my hair. 

 

I dont think kids get that anymore in any school district and that's a shame. I think it makes a difference. But again, I haven't been in high school in over a decade. 

 

Our entire idea of what a community is an isn't has changed a lot. Not entirely, but a lot. Our entire culture has changed in many ways, and is different throughout the country. It's hard to ignore that when looking at certain things going on.

[Llevron]

4 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

You went to Oxon Hill? What class?

 

2005 I remember you said you went there too right? 

23 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

As a son of a teacher and multiple teachers in my family, I can tell you that there are teachers that still do that and even in the inner city.  I can also tell you they know they can't protect them once they walk out that door everyday and the kids know that.

 

Thats good to hear. Moms (was teacher, Principal) used to literally try and fight people to protect these kids. Shes a little insane but she really was about that life. Glad thats not gone. 

6 minutes ago, tshile said:

Our entire idea of what a community is an isn't has changed a lot. Not entirely, but a lot. Our entire culture has changed in many ways, and is different throughout the country. It's hard to ignore that when looking at certain things going on.

 

Yea thats what I pick up too. And if attributed to schools i feel like its a big part of what these kids are dealing with that we never had to. But its a looooooooooooot more to it than that. 

[Zguy28]

24 minutes ago, tshile said:

Our entire idea of what a community is an isn't has changed a lot. Not entirely, but a lot. Our entire culture has changed in many ways, and is different throughout the country. It's hard to ignore that when looking at certain things going on.

The idea hasn't, but the importance has, very much so in the last 20 years.

[Renegade7]

31 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

It doesn't sound like the wrong question if we're recognizing the enormous cost and burden it places on the school (including the children.)

 

If turning schools into prison-like-structures only moves the issue, why is this worth it? What unforeseen cost to our (already sub par by my standards) education system and future generations are we imposing and at what gain? To make people feel better that at least it's not happening inside the school? 

 

Maybe i'm looking at it all wrong and being too cynical, but I certainly don't think it's the wrong question to ask.

 

Our entire idea of what a community is an isn't has changed a lot. Not entirely, but a lot. Our entire culture has changed in many ways, and is different throughout the country. It's hard to ignore that when looking at certain things going on.

 

How many of ya'll actual went to Inner City schools?  Ya'll keep comparing them to prisons, why do ya'll keep saying that?  Do ya'll really believe a major factor in why the inner city school systems are having so many problems with stuff like test scores is because of the security measures put in place to give them a safe environment to get their education?  

 

You can't stop the shootings outside the school with out changes that are beyond the scope of this issue, this thread is about stopping shootings inside the school.  This isn't about making anyone feel better its about protecting these kids inside the school.  I get the resistance, I'm not ignoring it, I'm just telling you we've passed the point of how we feel about this mattering more then what has to be done. 

 

There's a middle ground here, so can we all please stop jumping to the conclusion that the schools have to look like a prison to be safe. If everytime I try to find a middle ground I'm met with "I don't want my school to look like a prison", I'm going to stop responding in this thread and wait for the next 6-7 school shootings to see if anyone has changed their minds.

27 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

2005 I remember you said you went there too right? 

 

Thats good to hear. Moms (was teacher, Principal) used to literally try and fight people to protect these kids. Shes a little insane but she really was about that life. Glad thats not gone. 

Ya, my mom was always the above and beyond rebel getting into arguments with administration on certain things. She had bounce around a couple different schools in DC, I've visited all of them, so I've seen the difference between a school within site of the Capitol and one in Anacostia (both with metal detectors).  There's one in anacostia I don't want to see us go that far nationwide.

[Bozo the kKklown]

1 hour ago, Llevron said:

2005 I remember you said you went there too right? 

You said this. I forgot

 

My little brother graduated same year as you.

[tshile]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

How many of ya'll actual went to Inner City schools?  Ya'll keep comparing them to prisons, why do ya'll keep saying that?

 

 

The general commentary from people who, I guess the best description is... are more interested in discuss that we need more gun control... is that sealing off the exits, adding a bunch of metal detectors, and staffing the schools with police will turn them into a prison.

 

I was not saying anything about inner city schools. At least not intentionally. I don't know anything about inner city schools other than the statistics that they are, statistically, awful. (generally speaking i think the statistics have  much larger part of them built upon the actual students and the families/environments said students come from or go to before/after school)

 

 

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

You can't stop the shootings outside the school with out changes that are beyond the scope of this issue, this thread is about stopping shootings inside the school. 

 

 

This thread has been about many things, and will continue to be about many things, unless/until a mod interfere and says otherwise. So no, we do not have to adhere to your arbitrary scoping of the thread.

 

[Renegade7]

19 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

 

The general commentary from people who, I guess the best description is... are more interested in discuss that we need more gun control... is that sealing off the exits, adding a bunch of metal detectors, and staffing the schools with police will turn them into a prison.

 

I was not saying anything about inner city schools. At least not intentionally. I don't know anything about inner city schools other than the statistics that they are, statistically, awful. (generally speaking i think the statistics have  much larger part of them built upon the actual students and the families/environments said students come from or go to before/after school)

 

 

Understood.  These kids are going through a lot, gun violence is just one of many factors why they are starting behind the 8 Ball based on where they are born.

 

Quote

 

 

This thread has been about many things, and will continue to be about many things, unless/until a mod interfere and says otherwise. So no, we do not have to adhere to your arbitrary scoping of the thread.

 

 

It's not my rule, its been the request of several members for each of these mass shooting threads to stay as close to the original topic as we can.  There's already a gun control thread, I'm just respecting their wishes, I'm not making ya'll do anything.  I will say that if we do keep getting out of scope on these individual events we end up debating issues that are above and beyond the specific one we started with (and this mass murder thing being so complex, the thread can get completely derailed). 

 

March for our Lives tried to link the school shooting to gun violence in general, and I respected them doing that because of how many of them lost family members outside the school and that just talking about school shootings wasn't good enough.  But we have to be careful on which parts of this discussion we go all the way up to the overarching gun violence issue to come back down to mass murders in schools.  You do IT as well, so I know you understand what I'm talking about in regards to out of scope, you can't save the world in one project.  If we try to fix everything at the same time everytime one of these happens, it will be harder to get anything done.

 

Everyone is entitled to say what they want to say on this issue, I'm ready to tap out, though.  I've been waiting to hear more about this kids mental health or CTE, that could take a while.  No hard feelings, seriously.

[tshile]

2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

It's not my rule, its been the request of several members for each of these mass shooting threads to stay as close to the original topic as we can. 

 

I thought the request was to keep it to the incident?

not to discuss stopping school shootings inside of schools.

 

draw your lines wherever you want. i'll draw mine.

[Renegade7]

2 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

I thought the request was to keep it to the incident?

not to discuss stopping school shootings inside of schools.

 

draw your lines wherever you want. i'll draw mine.

I thought it was the incident, too (wish you took that as what I meant), but we keep going up in topics.  I've said what I've said about trying not to get so far away that the thread isn't anywhere close to the incident anymore, but its all good, its not that serious.  Trying to help, hope you see that instead of trying to control you (which would suck if that's what you think I'm trying to do).

[tshile]

No, it's all good, it just felt like you were arbitrarily drawing a line to dismiss a concern about the idea you were pushing. That's all. What i saw was:

- Concern that beefing up security -> Pushes the violence to outside the school

- This doesn't matter because this conversation is limited to violence inside the school

 

I don't think that's what you intended, it's just how it read to me. No worries at all

 

[Larry]

2 hours ago, tshile said:

 

Except it's not an issue of a hobby, it's an issue of a right.

 

Never said it wasn't a right.  (I actually believe that it is.  And that it is in society's interest for it to remain so.)  

 

I said it's a hobby.  The label fits.  Pointing out that there's another word that you want to demand I use doesn't change that.  

 

[tshile]

55 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Never said it wasn't a right.  (I actually believe that it is.  And that it is in society's interest for it to remain so.)  

 

I said it's a hobby.  The label fits.  Pointing out that there's another word that you want to demand I use doesn't change that.  

 

I'm not demanding you use it. I'm more on your side of this than not.

 

But when you call it a hobby your idea sounds fine. When you call it a right there is a huge legal issue with it. That's all I was trying to say.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

It's the goddamn guns!

 

The end.

[TradeTheBeal!]

17 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

It's the goddamn guns!

 

The end.

 

Nah, it’s Hannah Montana.

[twa]

1 hour ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

It's the goddamn guns!

 

The end.

 

It's the people using the goddamn guns!

 

Eliminating guns won't stop it, though it would probably reduce it...unless kids today are not too stupid and feeble for other options.

[visionary]

 

[dfitzo53]

I'm trying to understand how someone with an assault weapon and a desire to kill people is going to be stopped (or even slowed down) by a metal detector.