Miami Herald: I’m done trying to understand Trump supporters. Why don’t they try to understand me?

[LadySkinsFan]

Can we please put to rest that Hillary somehow manipulated the primaries.

 

1. Sanders was an Independent trying to hijack the nomination.

2. Sanders won some caucases, hardly won on an actual vote.

3. Sanders wanted to change the primary rules mid-primary season after he agreed to them by entering the race as a Democrat.

4. Hillary won the primary and nomination by actual votes and by following the rules.

 

 

BTW, Trump only won by 70,000 votes spread among the states that were targeted by...wait for it...the Russian interference with information from CA.

 

Edited May 6, 2018 by LadySkinsFan

[Llevron]

2 minutes ago, Hersh said:

I don’t think Clinton would beat Trump. I agree with @tshile on this one that it’s a little bit of a bubble mentality. 

It does make a difference who the Dem candidate is. To think otherwise is to let Trump have a legit chance to win again

 

I'm not saying I want her to run. I'm just making the argument that if America was faced with the same choice twice I bet more people would choose to avoid another 4 years of Trump after the first 4. 

 

Yall keep wanting to put me in a bubble. 

[TheGreatBuzz]

19 minutes ago, Llevron said:

As a side, have you always been like this or is this some new persona you are trying out? The jilted republican thing you have been doing in the last week is interesting but honestly a bit annoying. I know you are smart enough to get my point AND see validity in it. You just can't get that conservtisim out of your blood, though. 

Maybe I am blind to it but I haven't noticed a big difference in him.  He reminds me a lot of myself actually.  He is a conservative.  And he still has those values.  Those values put him at odds with some of the values of the Left and he points out when he thinks they are wrong.  But that doesn't make him a Republican because as it has been pointed out repeatedly here, the GOP is not conservative, they only claim to be.  So he calls out the Right also.

 

Now I will say for myself, I don't call out the Right as often as I do the Left.  That isn't because I don't think the Right is wrong a lot.  But because there is 5,000 other people here to call out the Right and I don't see value in just repeating the same thing others have said.

[Llevron]

37 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Maybe I am blind to it but I haven't noticed a big difference in him.  He reminds me a lot of myself actually. 

 

I wouldn't disagree with any of that. 

 

Not sure why calling him or you a republican is off base though. Let's not forget i live in a bubble and **** like that. 

Edited May 6, 2018 by Llevron

[@DCGoldPants]

Thought about this article a little over the weekend, then came into this thread and realized two things.

 

#1. It's a much longer way of saying "Instead of arguing with the pro-Trump crowd, focus on folks who aren't sure along with those who already agree with you"

 

#2. They don't want the anti-Trump folks to do #1 at all.

 

There is no value in calling out their fear of a White Christian (in name only too often) becoming a minority. It's the same reason why a lot of folks here have blocked the biggest tailgate troll in the history in ES, but still see his stuff quoted and argued with by the same people for years. We've all seen people parrot the same stuff Franklin Graham said. We've also seen the same people still fall back on the Bill Clinton stuff too. They are going to spend the entire time from not to election day running against Pelosi, Obama and Hilary. It works better when you acknowledge that and start arguing in the names of those 3.

[TheGreatBuzz]

18 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

I wouldn't disagree with any of that. 

 

Not sure why calling him or you a republican is off base though. Let's not forget j live in a bubble and shut like that. 

Well at this point I will let @tshile say his part.  I don't know how he identifies.

 

I however am certainly NOT a Republican.  I expressed my frustration with the party for a number of years.  When Trump first attempted his Muslim ban and the whole party supported him, I went to the clerks office and changed my registration to independent.  I consider my self a conservative and take no shame in that.  But being called a Republican is not the same.  There is nothing conservative about them.

[tshile]

1 hour ago, Llevron said:

As a side, have you always been like this or is this some new persona you are trying out? The jilted republican thing you have been doing in the last week is interesting but honestly a bit annoying. I know you are smart enough to get my point AND see validity in it. You just can't get that conservtisim out of your blood, though. 

 

I’ve always laughed at people not learning from mistakes. 

[Llevron]

Just now, TheGreatBuzz said:

Well at this point I will let @tshile say his part.  I don't know how he identifies.

 

I however am certainly NOT a Republican.  I expressed my frustration with the party for a number of years.  When Trump first attempted his Muslim ban and the whole party supported him, I went to the clerks office and changed my registration to independent.  I consider my self a conservative and take no shame in that.  But being called a Republican is not the same.  There is nothing conservative about them.

 

I take it back then. That's entirely valid. 

 

Something about aggressive conservativism just strikes me as a republican quality. But I think part of that is I dont believe this current iteration of the Republican party is actually the Republican party. They have given me every reason to feel that way, but I honestly think they are just aligning themselves with that mess because it's working and they will do anything to stay in power. 

 

In 8 years I dont think they will be Republicans anymore. That may actually be my bubble talk though if I'm being honest with myself. 

[tshile]

4 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Well at this point I will let @tshile say his part.  I don't know how he identifies.

 

You know who else constantly accuses me of being a republican and a trump supporter despite me not voting for any in a while? Ashburyskinsfan

 

birds and feathers yadda yadda

[Llevron]

5 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

I’ve always laughed at people not learning from mistakes. 

 

Aren't we preaching the same thing at this point, then? My point is that people who didnt vote and participated in the biggest protest in US history would vote now for Hillary to avoid Trump. That logic should not be beyond your comprehension and you have yet to give me a reason it would be wrong. 

2 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

You know who else constantly accuses me of being a republican and a trump supporter despite me not voting for any in a while? Ashburyskinsfan

 

birds and feathers yadda yadda

 

You also love to play the victim. It's cute. 

Edited May 6, 2018 by Llevron

[Kilmer17]

1 hour ago, LadySkinsFan said:

Can we please put to rest that Hillary somehow manipulated the primaries.

 

1. Sanders was an Independent trying to hijack the nomination.

2. Sanders won some caucases, hardly won on an actual vote.

3. Sanders wanted to change the primary rules mid-primary season after he agreed to them by entering the race as a Democrat.

4. Hillary won the primary and nomination by actual votes and by following the rules.

 

 

BTW, Trump only won by 70,000 votes spread among the states that were targeted by...wait for it...the Russian interference with information from CA.

 

Clinton was bragging before the first primary / caucuses about how many super delegates they had already locked up. 

 

They didnt “rig the primaries” they rigged the entire nomination process

[tshile]

1 minute ago, Llevron said:

 

Aren't we preaching the same thing at this point, then? My point is that people who didnt vote and participated in the biggest protest in US history would vote now for Hillary to avoid Trump. That logic should be beyond your comprehension and you have yet to give me a reason it would be wrong. 

 

I stand by what I said. If you think simply running Clinton now, or in two years, would produce different results then you live in a bubble. 

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

1 minute ago, Llevron said:

 

Aren't we preaching the same thing at this point, then? My point is that people who didnt vote and participated in the biggest protest in US history would vote now for Hillary to avoid Trump. That logic should be beyond your comprehension and you have yet to give me a reason it would be wrong. 

Personally I still wouldn't vote for Hillary.  I would vote 3rd party again for two reasons.  One, the way Hillary was nominated to me shows a lot of what is wrong with our government.  Two, as much as we all hate Trump, he is not the problem.  I wrote about this a few times in the past and it just gets glossed over.  Trump is merely a symptom of our problem.  The country has the flu.  Trump is just the nausea that comes with it.    

[Llevron]

1 minute ago, tshile said:

 

I stand by what I said. If you think simply running Clinton now, or in two years, would produce different results then you live in a bubble. 

 

 

'You are wrong. I wont argue what you said or how you said it but you are wrong and I stand by that'

 

Also a very republican quality of yours lol. 

[Kilmer17]

1 hour ago, Llevron said:

 

I'm not saying I want her to run. I'm just making the argument that if America was faced with the same choice twice I bet more people would choose to avoid another 4 years of Trump after the first 4. 

 

Yall keep wanting to put me in a bubble. 

I think Clinton would double her lead in total votes.  And probably flip Wisconsin.  And still lose the EC

[TradeTheBeal!]

Bring out your dead.

[tshile]

10 minutes ago, Llevron said:

You also love to play the victim. It's cute. 

 

Im definitely not a victim. 

 

You arent so unlike the accusations you use to insult others. If you find you way out of your bubble you’ll see it. 

[Llevron]

1 minute ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Personally I still wouldn't vote for Hillary.  I would vote 3rd party again for two reasons.  One, the way Hillary was nominated to me shows a lot of what is wrong with our government.  Two, as much as we all hate Trump, he is not the problem.  I wrote about this a few times in the past and it just gets glossed over.  Trump is merely a symptom of our problem.  The country has the flu.  Trump is just the nausea that comes with it.    

 

I'm surprised, to be honest. But you aren't exactly the voter I thought I would win with this argument anyway. 

 

5 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

I think Clinton would double her lead in total votes.  And probably flip Wisconsin.  And still lose the EC

 

It's possible. I'm not claiming she would win in a landslide either. Just that the gap was so small to begin with it could flip. 

 

[tshile]

9 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Personally I still wouldn't vote for Hillary.  I would vote 3rd party again for two reasons.  One, the way Hillary was nominated to me shows a lot of what is wrong with our government.  Two, as much as we all hate Trump, he is not the problem.  I wrote about this a few times in the past and it just gets glossed over.  Trump is merely a symptom of our problem.  The country has the flu.  Trump is just the nausea that comes with it.    

 

I refuse to be goaded into voting for a terrible person/candidate simply because they might lose to an even worse one. 

 

Both parties nominated terrible people and using fear tactics to gain support is bull****. You want my vote? Nominate someone who doesn’t suck. That would put you significantly ahead of the other party. 

Edited May 6, 2018 by tshile

[Llevron]

1 minute ago, tshile said:

 

Im definitely not a victim. 

 

You arent so unlike the accusations you use to insult others. If you find you way out of your bubble you’ll see it. 

 

I'm reminded of you immobility on the guns thing for some reason. 

 

What accusation did I use to hurt your feelings this time Tshile? Calling you a Republican? 

 

 

[visionary]

I am curious who third party folks would vote for among the Democrats in 2020 excluding those posters who have already said they would never ever support a democrat.  (Though maybe there is a better thread for that?)

Edited May 6, 2018 by visionary

[TheGreatBuzz]

2 minutes ago, Llevron said:

I'm surprised, to be honest. But you aren't exactly the voter I thought I would win with this argument anyway. 

Since we are speaking in hypotheticals, I will say if everything was done again and Biden was on the ticket, I would probably vote D.  I might even vote Hillary if I felt there was a real primary and she won honestly instead of just being the heir apparent.  I don't think the Dem's understand how much that turned off a lot of people.  And if the Left really wants to win, people like me are ones they need to convince.  Pull the fence sitters over to your side.

1 minute ago, visionary said:

I am curious who third party folks would vote for among the Democrats.  (Though maybe there is a better thread for that?)

Do you mean in the past or going forward?  

[tshile]

3 minutes ago, Llevron said:

What accusation did I use to hurt your feelings this time Tshile?

Not the ones you throw at me

 

the ones you throw at trump supporters 

[Kilmer17]

5 minutes ago, visionary said:

I am curious who third party folks would vote for among the Democrats.  (Though maybe there is a better thread for that?)

John Hickenlooper will gather broad support

[Warhead36]

You can't reason with Trump supporters. I've never seen a group of people so ignorant if not downright stupid and PROUD to be ignorant/stupid. And the sad thing is, there are enough people in this country of this mindset to get the idiot elected.

 

The election of Donald Trump is the apex of the dumbification of America.