is Trumpism helping or harming the position of Christianity in America?

[AsburySkinsFan]

A warning to Christians in DC:

”Do NOT speak truth to power.”

 

[No Excuses]

26 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

A warning to Christians in DC:

”Do NOT speak truth to power.”

 

 

This is really quite the awful story and perfectly illustrates the mainstream Republican view on poverty. Nothing gets in the way of their agenda to bankrupt the people of this nation to benefit their donors.

[AsburySkinsFan]

7 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

 

This is really quite the awful story and perfectly illustrates the mainstream Republican view on poverty. Nothing gets in the way of their agenda to bankrupt the people of this nation to benefit their donors.

True colors will ALWAYS shine through.

[twa]

8 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

 

This is really quite the awful story and perfectly illustrates the mainstream Republican view on poverty. Nothing gets in the way of their agenda to bankrupt the people of this nation to benefit their donors.

 

So you are saying it WAS a partisan prayer?

[No Excuses]

1 minute ago, twa said:

 

So you are saying it WAS a partisan prayer?

 

I realize we've sunk our political discourse to the point where simply pointing out a fact such as "the GOP tax bill completely ****s the poor in favor of the rich" is now a partisan statement. 

 

Oh well.

[Kilmer17]

I've never thought about the Chaplain.  Is it normal for him (or her?) to specifically reference legislation in their prayers and do so in what could be seen as a partisan manner?

[twa]

18 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

I've never thought about the Chaplain.  Is it normal for him (or her?) to specifically reference legislation in their prayers and do so in what could be seen as a partisan manner?

 

It is prohibited for them to be partisan,for normal you would need someone who follows their prayers.

 

[techboy]

Um, is this partisan?

 

"May all Members be mindful that the institutions and structures of our great Nation guarantee the opportunities that have allowed some to achieve great success, while others continue to struggle," Conroy said at the time. "May their efforts these days guarantee that there are not winners and losers under new tax laws, but benefits balanced and shared by all Americans."

 

Because I'm pretty sure Republicans were claiming that the Tax Bill helped everyone, right?

 

So, mission accomplished?

[Zguy28]

If you read the Hill article closely, it says people are speculating its because of that prayer. Ryan's office has denied that and won't say.

[Kilmer17]

4 minutes ago, techboy said:

Um, is this partisan?

 

 

 

 

Because I'm pretty sure Republicans were claiming that the Tax Bill helped everyone, right?

 

So, mission accomplished?

I think it can clearly be construed as partisan, whether that was his intent or not.  The broader question is whether the Chaplain is supposed to be mentioning legislation etc in his prayers.  I would think not, but I dont know for sure.

[bearrock]

Maybe they should replace the Chaplain with a more clerical role and individual house members can take turns inviting their chosen clergy for the opening prayer.  Or do away with the opening prayer (like desiring house members can't take a short moment to individually pray before the session?).

[Kilmer17]

Just now, bearrock said:

Maybe they should replace the Chaplain with a more clerical role and individual house members can take turns inviting their chosen clergy for the opening prayer.  Or do away with the opening prayer (like desiring house members can't take a short moment to individually pray before the session?).

LOL.  Could you imagine the Wiccan day?

[Zguy28]

2 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

I think it can clearly be construed as partisan, whether that was his intent or not.  The broader question is whether the Chaplain is supposed to be mentioning legislation etc in his prayers.  I would think not, but I dont know for sure.

Of course he should mention legislation. That's his role and he's also an American citizen. Gonna restrict his freedom to worship now?

[Kilmer17]

Just now, Zguy28 said:

Of course he should mention legislation. That's his role and he's also an American citizen. Gonna restrict his freedom to worship now?

I'm not sure that IS his role.  Trying to find out.  If you have that detail please share.

[The Evil Genius]

https://chaplain.house.gov

 

 

Edit..also all opening prayers are archived as part of the Congressional Record. 

Edited April 27, 2018 by The Evil Genius

[bearrock]

3 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

I'm not sure that IS his role.  Trying to find out.  If you have that detail please share.

http://Chaplain_of_the_United_States_House_of_Representatives

 

Looking at the wikipedia page, it looks like duties and decorum regarding opening prayer are sufficiently vague to leave it up to the Chaplain's discretion as to what is allowed vs. what might be considered proper.  There does seem to be at least one former Chaplain who used the platform as a bully pulpit on legislative agenda (stocks and bonds are gambling).  

 

I'm not sure if I would consider what the current Chaplain did to be necessarily out of bounds, but I also don't see a big deal with Ryan asking for resignation (especially if Pelosi didn't put up much of a protest).

[Kilmer17]

3 minutes ago, bearrock said:

http://Chaplain_of_the_United_States_House_of_Representatives

 

Looking at the wikipedia page, it looks like duties and decorum regarding opening prayer are sufficiently vague to leave it up to the Chaplain's discretion as to what is allowed vs. what might be considered proper.  There does seem to be at least one former Chaplain who used the platform as a bully pulpit on legislative agenda (stocks and bonds are gambling).  

 

I'm not sure if I would consider what the current Chaplain did to be necessarily out of bounds, but I also don't see a big deal with Ryan asking for resignation (especially if Pelosi didn't put up much of a protest).

That's kind of my thought too.  It's not a big deal if he does, but it's also not a big deal if he's replaced.

[Bang]

I should HOPE the House chaplain follows their conscience as dictated by the teachings they profess to follow.

I am not a believer, but if anyone can show me where God ever said that the truth of his supposed Word is to be couched so as to not offend a politician who is acting counter to it, I'd like to see it. As best as this atheist is able to gather, God, Jesus and the lot of them have been shown to be downright militant against such things.

 

As far as I am concerned, if we MUST have a chaplain associated with our government, I want them to be as true to their ideals as possible, and to act as that conscience. If that runs them afoul of politicians attempting to behave differently, then more power to them to be able to say so in their invocations or sermons.

After all, this is the job of the chaplain, priest, pastor, minister... to guide their flocks in the teachings of their God, and to act as the advisor that helps them stay on that path.

 

It really IS too bad for the GOP that practically everything said about the poor goes directly against how they want to handle practically every aspect of their agenda.

Another thing I don't recall is God having too much patience for this sort of crap.

 

~Bang

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

3 hours ago, Zguy28 said:

The problem you are ignoring though in statement A is: what about the first commandment to love God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength? The bible reveals God as not just loving, but also infinitely holy and righteous. It gives revelation from Him regarding His standards, which often are different than what we naturally think, since His thinking isn't skewed by sin. He reveals what He thinks and desires regarding subjects like sex (among many other things like justice and mercy). These are not minor things to God. He desires right motive and right action. Might you be substituting how you feel for what God says? God commands us to abstain or flee from sexual immorality. I am loving my neighbor by not engaging in sexual sin with him/her, even though my body or mind may be struggling with wanting to.

 

Statement B: I agree 100%. What do you do when you come to the conclusion that the sexual acts in statement A are "the plight of your fellow man"? Do you use your treasure and seek to compassionately rescue him?

I think if the standard to get into heaven is following all 10 commandments, heaven must be a pretty empty place.  Maybe it is like school where 60% is the bare minimum for passing.

[mcsluggo]

Quote

The problem you are ignoring though in statement A is: what about the first commandment to love God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength? The bible reveals God as not just loving, but also infinitely holy and righteous. It gives revelation from Him regarding His standards, which often are different than what we naturally think, since His thinking isn't skewed by sin. He reveals what He thinks and desires regarding subjects like sex (among many other things like justice and mercy). These are not minor things to God. He desires right motive and right action. Might you be substituting how you feel for what God says? God commands us to abstain or flee from sexual immorality. I am loving my neighbor by not engaging in sexual sin with him/her, even though my body or mind may be struggling with wanting to.

 

Statement B: I agree 100%. What do you do when you come to the conclusion that the sexual acts in statement A are "the plight of your fellow man"? Do you use your treasure and seek to compassionately rescue him?

 

Man demonstrates that we are worthy to be in God's presence by sharing God's love with each other.   Mostly we do that by caring for each other (both our direct loved ones, and also those beyond our intimate circle that are in need in one way or another-- be it hungry for actual sustenance, or just hungry for a pleasant smile on a dreary day).   To ME, what it means to say that we are "made in God's image" is to say that we have been granted both the self awareness to really recognize the joy and suffering of others (if we choose to), conjoined with the self determination and power to impact other's joy and suffering.     Bill and Ted captured it, and boiled it down, better than almost all theologians:   "Be excellent to one another."    It is not that complicated.   

 

It is my own thoughts on what i think is important to Jesus... and frankly, if anyone succeeded in convincing me that i am wrong in my opinion of how Jesus' prioritizes man's demonstration of our own Godliness, i would ALSO change my opinion in whether I think Christianity is worthy of my participation, and would leave the church and never look back.    

Edited April 27, 2018 by mcsluggo

[mcsluggo]

1 hour ago, Kilmer17 said:

I think it can clearly be construed as partisan, whether that was his intent or not.  The broader question is whether the Chaplain is supposed to be mentioning legislation etc in his prayers.  I would think not, but I dont know for sure.

 

His statement didn't say anything about actual legislation points, it only said (essentially):  "please make sure that this legislation does't screw the poor"

 

In my opinion, the only way you can argue that his statement was partisan .... is to concede that the GOP plan really did screw the poor.   

 

(and yes, its obvious that Paul Ryan DID believe that his legislation absolutely ****ed the poor,  which is why that non-specific, and non-partisan statement bothered him)  

[Kilmer17]

Just now, mcsluggo said:

 

His statement didn't say anything about actual legislation points, it only said (essentially):  "please make sure that this legislation does't screw the poor"

 

In my opinion, the only way you can argue that his statement was partisan .... is to concede that the GOP plan really did screw the poor.   

 

(and yes, its obvious that Paul Ryan DID believe that his legislation absolutely ****ed the poor,  which is why that non-specific, and non-partisan statement bothered him)  

I took it to mean his opinion was that it screwed the poor.

[mcsluggo]

Just now, Kilmer17 said:

I took it to mean his opinion was that it screwed the poor.

 

but he didn't say that.   it is taken that way by the reader if the READER believes that the legislation screwed the poor.

[Kilmer17]

1 minute ago, mcsluggo said:

 

but he didn't say that.   it is taken that way by the reader if the READER believes that the legislation screwed the poor.

Well, I dont believe the legislation screws the poor, and I think he was implying that it does.

[mcsluggo]

this action demonstrated that Paul Ryan believed that his legislation was anti-poor, dishonest, and anti-christian principles, and the sleazy underhanded way he dumped the chaplain for daring to state christian principles (again, without specifically addressing the legislation) is just icing on the **** burrito.

 

 

this actually is an almost perfect encapsulation of Paul Ryan, and his legacy.